NewTricks

Forum Fanatic
Nov 1, 2017
5,391
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I'm afraid you've lost me on this one, Neon.

If your point is that Risa is a virtual snake-charmer who's easily able to talk the MC into something he would normally never do, I think you really missed the mark when introducing her character. If your point is that the MC is easily cowed into not making a scene, I'm struggling to see how that characterization aligns with the extremely twisted activities we routinely ARE given a choice about. If your point is that the MC is your character and you control what happens, that is obviously true - but I think this is going to be a much more significant stumbling block than automatically buying Cassie a swimsuit.

I also have to take issue with your final point. It's obviously impossible to allow ALL the options, but IMHO it's entirely appropriate to hold a game that offers lots of options to a higher standard than a mostly linear game. Firstly, because those options may be a big part of the appeal: the people who might complain about railroading in the linear game probably aren't playing it in the first place.

But secondly - and far more importantly - because the choices we make are presented as MEANING something. We aren't just arbitrarily choosing between scenes when we debate how the MC treats a woman, we're choosing what sort of person our MC is. The dots are supposed to form a pattern. The reality of programming means it tends to be a very impressionistic pattern and most players will accept that (with different levels of grumbling). But a single outlying point can cripple that pattern if it's in the wrong place, and a handful of outliers will destroy it entirely.

So I really don't think it's wise to be flippant about forcing choices on the player. It's one thing to say the MC has to interact with a girl, but it's quite another to say he has to defer to a girl when choosing how to treat the cast is *the* major selling point of the game. I'm sure we'll have opportunities to abuse Risa down the line, but that's a day late and a dollar short.

Again, this is your game and what's done is already done. But the next time a similar situation comes up in the future, I think it would behoove you to take a step back and consider if there are alternative ways to reach your end goal that don't override our ability to help/hurt a girl. If so, that's the sort of branching that should be a top priority.

If branching simply isn't feasible, then at least do your level best to set up the situation so it's clear why the MC's hand is forced regardless of the many different hands he might be wearing at the time. Half the problem this time is that both Risa and her situation sprung up out of the blue. If helping her was as plot critical as you say, it was clearly a mistake to make her interactions in the last update optional.

So yeah, I think this is a case where this game deserves critiques in a way a more linear game would not.
I disagree with your assessment. Guy has certain personality traits that are consistent between good Guy and bad Guy playthroughs and one of them is that he is indeed susceptible to influence and manipulation by women. For good or ill. In fact, most of his "bad Guy" actions are not acts of dominance but rather acts of malice in response to his humiliation regarding how these attempts to influence him make him feel. Bad Guy is not a Bad Guy because he has dominant traits, but rather he is just lashing out to overcompensate for his deep-seated feelings of inadequacy fostered over many hard years of disappointment and suboptimal outcomes with women. You can make decisions for Guy and change the direction of his life, but deep down he is still going to be who he is. In regards to Risa, I think that why he responds to her differently is that she makes no pretense of what she is doing when she is manipulating him. Perhaps he respects her more because she is so nakedly presenting her self-interest. Because it isn't quite as insulting to his intelligence when she is just boldly telling him what she wants and being direct in how she wants it.
 

Dessolos

Board Buff
Jul 25, 2017
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You know despite everything with Risa the drug thing actually makes me like Risa more. Because Neon has ability to make me care for characters just from their facial expressions. When she revealed what she really was after she made a face that said to me im sad, desperate, scared, lost and need help and sorry all the same time. Sure she lied to and tricked us but because of what I felt from that one scene with her facial expressions I cant help but feel bad for her. Before I thought Risa was just a slutty lazy party girl or something. Now however with the whole drug thing she starts to feel like a character with issues where I want to be there for her. While I don't think she will ever beat Nicki , Ashe or Britt on my personal rankings but I think she will come close I think.

But before I put her down as a potential LI I like , I will wait for the next update but right now I think she will make on that list.

Edit : doesn't mean ill fully trust her either tho at least not for a long time. I would be cautious.
 
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Dessolos

Board Buff
Jul 25, 2017
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The whole drug den scene is kind of weird. Oxi is generally "rich people" drug and not sold in piece of shit places like that because "well off" people like that won't buy it from some shady street thug. It's not a cheap-ass street drug like heroin.
o was it oxi they were buying I never caught that thanks. I assumed I had to wait for the update to find out.
 

Innocience

Member
Mar 25, 2020
441
741
237
You know despite everything with Risa the drug thing actually makes me like Risa more. Because Neon has ability to make me care for characters just from their facial expressions.
I had the exact opposite reaction. The entire setup is too convenient and casts a very bad light on a lot of her airhead / party girl antics. If I only ever so much sniff out the slightest intent behind those traits, a.k.a. she's aware of what kind of trouble she got Guy in, I'll make sure she'll end up like the girl on the couch.
 

SlapE

Engaged Member
Dec 4, 2022
2,034
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647
I didn't like the ending scene of the update very much, and did dislike the fact that the MC is just ready to go into a drug den, not knowing who or what the fuck is in there. However, I'm not going to sit here and complain about it, instead I'm just hoping we get the option to tell Risa to get the fuck out of our lives after that shit is wrapped up. If we are forced to continue helping her afterwards, with no player agency whatsoever, that's when I would actually take problem with the story.

I would still be willing to help her out by getting her into recovery, but only if we have the option to not be her friend afterwards. As someone who has grown up around many addicts, it's definitely a sad reality to witness, and I can sympathize to a certain extent. I however, don't want to associate myself with them, and unless they've fully went through recovery and are sober, wouldn't even consider friendship with them, let alone a romantic relationship.

This is the only thing I'm saying on the matter. I'll just wait until the next update to see what happens before giving a further opinion on the subject.
 

Joshy92

Message Maven
Mar 25, 2021
13,903
35,138
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Here's a fun anecdote, take it for what it's worth: I visited Istanbul, Turkey last February. My first time out of the country, and I visited a country where I stuck out like a sore thumb, didn't speak the language, and had only a passing familiarity with the history and culture of the region. Also, this is right around the time a series of devastating earthquakes killed tens of thousands of people. On my first day there I rolled out of bed, and was wandering around looking for a coffee shop. A guy approached me, introduces himself as Rafael, and asked what I was looking for.

"Coffee? Abi, abi you come, my store's just over here," says my new friend.

So, I follow this random dude, thinking he owns a coffee shop. Nope! Homeboy owns a rug store -- El Rincon De Fehmi, if you're ever in the neighborhood. He makes me some Turkish coffee, he tells me which restaurants I should visit, which tourist places to avoid, and eventually talks me into buying a rug. "For your mother, she'll love it."

I take the rug and go back to my hotel. A few days later, I decide to hit up a pharmacy for a few things. On my way, a guy working near a kiosk sees me wandering, and asks what I'm looking for.

"Pharmacy? Abi, is one right over here. My name is Sancar, come."

Now, I know where the pharmacy is. I've been there already. But, he begins to lead me down a winding alleyway that runs parallel to the street I need to be on. I'm a little leery, until he leads me by a storefront and explains, "This is my place, maybe you come by after we visit pharmacy, eh?" So, I get it. I'm growing accustomed to the sales tactics of Turkish folk.

I go in the pharmacy, buy what I need, and find my guide waiting outside. "Abi, abi, why don't you come to my store? I make us some tea, you sit and talk." Now, I've got a friend waiting in my hotel. I really don't feel like having tea, but fuck it. It's my first time abroad - why not experience some things?

So, Sancar leads me into his storefront, which I realize is actually just a very long hallway, with various offices and other stores inside it. But, most of the lights are out, and my sketchy bullshit sense is lighting up. Eventually we arrive at a modest rug store, and he hurriedly makes me some tea. As he's doing so, a young kid filters into the room, along with three adult men. Sketchy bullshit sense is screaming now, but I tell it to quite down.

Unlike Rafael, Sancar launches right into the hard sell, and starts slapping rugs down on the floor. I tell him, firmly but politely, I already bought one rug on this trip. I can't be going home with a suitcase full of rugs and baklava. He proceeds to get aggressive. "I help you find pharmacy, I give you tea, I welcome you here to my country, my store, and this is how you repay me?!"

In the end, I bought a table runner for $10, and gave his son 5 lira as a tip.

When I told this story to my best friend, she was aghast. "Stop following strange men into rug stores, you fucking idiot!"

When I came back to my hotel and my friend who was staying with me saw I'd gotten another Turkish textile product, she put her face in her hands and said, "Howwwwww?!"

Now, why did I tell this very long story? To explain that sometimes even smart, capable, people make bad decisions. My bullshit sense was screaming at me to turn around and go back to my hotel, and I didn't listen, putting myself into a potentially dangerous situation. Why? Well, a few reasons. I'm a fairly big, athletic sort of guy. I work a dangerous job. I grew up in an environment where I was around drug dealers and criminals. I'm not easily intimidated, and that sometimes blinds me to the fact that bad things can happen to me.

Now, let's recap some things about Guy:
  • He worked for years at a shitty neighborhood convenience store, where he's likely dealt with all manner of drunks, homeless people, etc.
  • He's been rich for all of four and a half months, living the 'good life' for three.
  • He previously lived in a shitty studio apartment with peeling paint, in a neighborhood where his building is still regularly tagged with graffiti.
  • He's newly fit, and feeling a bit tougher than he's used to.
So, this guy who's accustomed to dealing with the public, who's lived in a neighborhood where he had to be on guard, and who's still getting used to not being a skinny-fat lump, agrees to drive a girl home. She leads him to a shady place, he tries to get out of it, and she makes it pretty clear he has two options: go in with her, or have her make a scene, and attract attention. So, he ignores his good sense and says, "Fuck it, let's get this over with."

Is it smart? No! People do dumb things, for dumb reasons. But, it's not like he walked into a building that said, "CREEPY SCARRED WEIRDO WITH A HALF-NAKED GIRL, HERE!" It's an abandoned building, and Risa's dealer was just as likely to be a stoned teenager watching Rick and Morty.

And again, if you're wondering why you can't just skip the whole scene.. I don't know, probably the same reason you don't get to pick whether or not you take Mason in, or give Nicki money, or buy Cassie a swimsuit, or have a photoshoot with Brittani, or get involved with the movie project Ashe is working on -- all things people have complained weren't optional, by the way. Because this isn't a free-roam game where you have unlimited options. It's a story where you get to guide it at certain junctures. I can't plan for everything that everyone wants.

I've talked about this before, but there seems to be this perception sometimes that, because I allow a lot of options, I should allow all the options. And it's a critique I don't see leveled at games which are much more linear, and restrictive.
I agree with everything you just said.

Except that going to the drug den was a bad idea.
Risa shouldn't be going into places like that by herself so it was good Guy was with her.
 
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JonesTheFake

Newbie
Jul 7, 2017
57
32
102
I haven't checked this game out for a long time, been waiting for content to build up. I've gotta ask, is there dark content with Gabbie and if not will there be? Or is Gabbie primarily stuck to the love route.
 

RainbowRobo

Newbie
May 9, 2023
38
76
142
The whole drug den scene is kind of weird. Oxi is generally "rich people" drug and not sold in piece of shit places like that because "well off" people like that won't buy it from some shady street thug. It's not a cheap-ass street drug like heroin.
In my experience poor people get hooked on opiates too, and buy it in any form from anyone they can. In the hey day, I knew guy who looked the sketchiest mf you might imagine this side of meth alley, always had a stash of oxy, i knew cause that was a friends main hook up when she couldn't get out of state. And knowing the area he delt? aint nobody there you would call well off.

As for the larger "ain't no way guy would be that dumb" can we remember how he made his fortune? Guy be dumb.
 

Karmadive

Member
Mar 12, 2020
394
866
257
I will say this is another level of dumb for him tho heh. Guy couldn't get a backpack back from one dude at a bus stop, gets layed out flat in a single punch by another scrawny kid. And then decides it's a good idea to go into a Drug den.

Disclaimer: felt like I should just clarify I wish we had a choice but I fully understand when certain decisions need to be taken to progress the plot
 
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Urgali

New Member
May 31, 2022
4
0
77
So... I am trying to get onto the violence routes but I have been unable to trigger them, I don't think I'm doing anything wrong since im following the walkthrough but no violence/darkness options are showing up.
 

SonsOfLiberty

Community Champion
Compressor
Sep 3, 2022
30,185
277,609
957
....................
That's the old one you quoted, that's the "teaser" one.

This is the new verson, and v0.57...

Friends in Need [Ch. 8 v0.57] [NeonGhosts]

NOTES: This is the SubscribeStar "public" version, so this has the taboo content if you wish.

If you want the "taboo" content, either open the game folder, open patch.rpy and change "false" to "true" or copy over the patch included and overwrite when asked.


COMPRESSED: Win/Linux/Mac:
MEGA - PIXELDRAIN - WORKUPLOAD
 

PHIL101-YYouPPHard

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2022
1,196
2,561
386
Here's a fun anecdote, take it for what it's worth: I visited Istanbul, Turkey last February. My first time out of the country, and I visited a country where I stuck out like a sore thumb, didn't speak the language, and had only a passing familiarity with the history and culture of the region. Also, this is right around the time a series of devastating earthquakes killed tens of thousands of people. On my first day there I rolled out of bed, and was wandering around looking for a coffee shop. A guy approached me, introduces himself as Rafael, and asked what I was looking for.

"Coffee? Abi, abi you come, my store's just over here," says my new friend.

So, I follow this random dude, thinking he owns a coffee shop. Nope! Homeboy owns a rug store -- El Rincon De Fehmi, if you're ever in the neighborhood. He makes me some Turkish coffee, he tells me which restaurants I should visit, which tourist places to avoid, and eventually talks me into buying a rug. "For your mother, she'll love it."

I take the rug and go back to my hotel. A few days later, I decide to hit up a pharmacy for a few things. On my way, a guy working near a kiosk sees me wandering, and asks what I'm looking for.

"Pharmacy? Abi, is one right over here. My name is Sancar, come."

Now, I know where the pharmacy is. I've been there already. But, he begins to lead me down a winding alleyway that runs parallel to the street I need to be on. I'm a little leery, until he leads me by a storefront and explains, "This is my place, maybe you come by after we visit pharmacy, eh?" So, I get it. I'm growing accustomed to the sales tactics of Turkish folk.

I go in the pharmacy, buy what I need, and find my guide waiting outside. "Abi, abi, why don't you come to my store? I make us some tea, you sit and talk." Now, I've got a friend waiting in my hotel. I really don't feel like having tea, but fuck it. It's my first time abroad - why not experience some things?

So, Sancar leads me into his storefront, which I realize is actually just a very long hallway, with various offices and other stores inside it. But, most of the lights are out, and my sketchy bullshit sense is lighting up. Eventually we arrive at a modest rug store, and he hurriedly makes me some tea. As he's doing so, a young kid filters into the room, along with three adult men. Sketchy bullshit sense is screaming now, but I tell it to quite down.

Unlike Rafael, Sancar launches right into the hard sell, and starts slapping rugs down on the floor. I tell him, firmly but politely, I already bought one rug on this trip. I can't be going home with a suitcase full of rugs and baklava. He proceeds to get aggressive. "I help you find pharmacy, I give you tea, I welcome you here to my country, my store, and this is how you repay me?!"

In the end, I bought a table runner for $10, and gave his son 5 lira as a tip.

When I told this story to my best friend, she was aghast. "Stop following strange men into rug stores, you fucking idiot!"

When I came back to my hotel and my friend who was staying with me saw I'd gotten another Turkish textile product, she put her face in her hands and said, "Howwwwww?!"

Now, why did I tell this very long story? To explain that sometimes even smart, capable, people make bad decisions. My bullshit sense was screaming at me to turn around and go back to my hotel, and I didn't listen, putting myself into a potentially dangerous situation. Why? Well, a few reasons. I'm a fairly big, athletic sort of guy. I work a dangerous job. I grew up in an environment where I was around drug dealers and criminals. I'm not easily intimidated, and that sometimes blinds me to the fact that bad things can happen to me.

Now, let's recap some things about Guy:
  • He worked for years at a shitty neighborhood convenience store, where he's likely dealt with all manner of drunks, homeless people, etc.
  • He's been rich for all of four and a half months, living the 'good life' for three.
  • He previously lived in a shitty studio apartment with peeling paint, in a neighborhood where his building is still regularly tagged with graffiti.
  • He's newly fit, and feeling a bit tougher than he's used to.
So, this guy who's accustomed to dealing with the public, who's lived in a neighborhood where he had to be on guard, and who's still getting used to not being a skinny-fat lump, agrees to drive a girl home. She leads him to a shady place, he tries to get out of it, and she makes it pretty clear he has two options: go in with her, or have her make a scene, and attract attention. So, he ignores his good sense and says, "Fuck it, let's get this over with."

Is it smart? No! People do dumb things, for dumb reasons. But, it's not like he walked into a building that said, "CREEPY SCARRED WEIRDO WITH A HALF-NAKED GIRL, HERE!" It's an abandoned building, and Risa's dealer was just as likely to be a stoned teenager watching Rick and Morty.

And again, if you're wondering why you can't just skip the whole scene.. I don't know, probably the same reason you don't get to pick whether or not you take Mason in, or give Nicki money, or buy Cassie a swimsuit, or have a photoshoot with Brittani, or get involved with the movie project Ashe is working on -- all things people have complained weren't optional, by the way. Because this isn't a free-roam game where you have unlimited options. It's a story where you get to guide it at certain junctures. I can't plan for everything that everyone wants.

I've talked about this before, but there seems to be this perception sometimes that, because I allow a lot of options, I should allow all the options. And it's a critique I don't see leveled at games which are much more linear, and restrictive.
That's a fun story! Also reinforces my phobia of traveling abroad :LOL: (well, in certain countries anyways). I'm a scrawny little pushover pussy, I wouldn't stand a chance against these rug ambushers.

Anyways, you have my condolences for some of these beggar critics. I'm really not trying to dickride or shut down other people's opinions, but I just don't understand the issues that some players are having. Especially with a VN story that already has more (relevant) branching than I think I've seen... ever, really.. some people seem to want their every whim at any given point in the story catered to and that's just a non-starter. If there's going to be a plethora of choices in multiple chunks of the game, and if there's going to be a consistent and coherent(!) story from beginning to end, there's gotta be some really taut strings placed in the other chunks of said game to keep everything under control. Otherwise the development becomes untenable, you grow bitter and lose sanity, and we lose a really nice outlet for pent up spunk. That's how I see it anyways..

Ok, dickriding over now. :coffee::whistle:
 

Dr.Slime

Active Member
Nov 15, 2022
764
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Am i the only one who thinks Risa going to A drug den was something good and needed for her story?
I mean others have their own struggles, the only struggle we know about her is her family and she doesn’t like them a lot, but thats it so adding the drug help her story shine a little.
You say well why Neon didn’t give us option to reject her, well she is a friend of guy after few interactions even if it was small meaningless ones she somehow used him (these are junkies behaviour you can’t say much)
But it opens a door for those who wants a relationship with her later on otherwise if she becomes, LI without any background except her look it wouldn’t make sense.
 

MF_DOOM

Active Member
Mar 1, 2023
916
4,478
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In my experience poor people get hooked on opiates too
Yes, that's why I said "generally". The thing with proscription pill is that it's harder to put your hands on it, and they have a huge demand because it's pure and created in a real lab without any sketchy add-ons like glass or rat poison in some cases to produce more of it, which makes them way more expansive and out of reach for most poor junkies. Heroin is just easier and cheaper.
People like Risa usually know a scumbag doctor or know somebody who is supplied by a scumbag doctor.
 

Dessolos

Board Buff
Jul 25, 2017
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Am i the only one who thinks Risa going to A drug den was something good and needed for her story?
I mean others have their own struggles, the only struggle we know about her is her family and she doesn’t like them a lot, but thats it so adding the drug help her story shine a little.
You say well why Neon didn’t give us option to reject her, well she is a friend of guy after few interactions even if it was small meaningless ones she somehow used him (these are junkies behaviour you can’t say much)
But it opens a door for those who wants a relationship with her later on otherwise if she becomes, LI without any background except her look it wouldn’t make sense.
I liked it yeah cause before her character felt like it needed something more to it from a story point of view to me. Also it probably is going to set is up to another story line which if im being honest is probably needed. Because after replaying the game it's nothing but character arc's but not much in terms of a actual plot yet. ( tho this might just be another character arc but I doubt it, I think its going to be connected to Gabby's father)

Also if you read my post near the top of this page you will see how the drug den scene made me like Risa's character more. Cause the scene in the car made me feel bad for her, want to be there for her. Personally to me it felt like it just showed a whole range of emotions and sub text on her face just from that one scene. Basically I went from not caring about her and would be willing to ignore her as my initial thoughts was she was just a slutty part girl or something to not being able to say no to her ever again because of one scene. ( tho if it comes down to her or another LI i'm going to have a hell of a problem picking, cause in the back of mind I'm going to think she might need help cause of the drugs or something worse)

That is one thing I love about this game Neon really knows how to show emotion on the characters faces. Which is a big reason why I will never be able to play the dark path without ctrl skipping past those dark scenes.
 
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RainbowRobo

Newbie
May 9, 2023
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Yes, that's why I said "generally". The thing with proscription pill is that it's harder to put your hands on it, and they have a huge demand because it's pure and created in a real lab without any sketchy add-ons like glass or rat poison in some cases to produce more of it, which makes them way more expansive and out of reach for most poor junkies. Heroin is just easier and cheaper.
People like Risa usually know a scumbag doctor or know somebody who is supplied by a scumbag doctor.
Take this all with a grain of salt, cause it's late and kind of a rambling tangent.
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Everyone's experience is a little different. Yours might be that the suspension of disbelief gets strained to think of certain addicts following patterns outside of your expectations. Personally? I guess I've known too many drug dealers, big and small, with the only thing I can say is consistent about them as a group being: They deal drugs. Anything more than that is almost completely unpredictable.

Anyway, most the wealthy addicts I know stick to the abcs: alcohol, benzos, and coke. And pot i guess now that you can vape it especially, it's a lot more common at all levels.
 

RainbowRobo

Newbie
May 9, 2023
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Basically I went from not caring about her and would be willing to ignore her as my initial thoughts was she was just a slutty part girl or something to not being able to say no to her ever again because of one scene.
Oh yeah, I can totally see she went from kind of one dimensional to a heck of a lot more complex in the last two scenes of hers. A range of "oh that silly vapid girl" to "huh, yeah i guess it's easy to just keep living down to expectations" to "yeah, this'll be the trap of having lived down to low enough expectations. Damn, that's depressing."

I can't say I ever cared for her as a person to be involved with, but I've got nothing against her, and would hate to leave someone in a bad position if I were able to help. Though I have to admit buying her the next fix is... a bit of a stretch beyond something I'd want to be involved in personally. And if i were in that situation there would have been a lot more questions and a harder negotiation still sitting in the car; with a very high probability I'd make a show of getting out of the car with her, before getting right back in and driving off without her. But that's cause I'm not Guy, and I doubt Guy has ever had to fight off someone trying to grab the wheel from him as he tried to nope out of something he knew was just going to end poorly anyway.
 
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