- Oct 24, 2018
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- Thread starter NeonGhosts
- Start date
- Mar 20, 2019
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RE: Music -- I'd love to have music in the game, and it's part of my longterm plan. But, does anyone want me to take that time out of the art and writing? Because I only have so many hours in a day.
Sooo, that leaves me with the option to:
I'm not trying to be snippy, but I work an average of 60 hours a week at my day job, and haven't taken more than a week off from active development in two years. I put out content as frequently as I can, and I basically never miss updates on my subscription platforms. For that, here's a sample of the comments I can expect to get in return.
Now, I'm not throwing a hissy fit. My supporters are lovely and my appreciation for them is bottomless.
But, every time I try to do something special/nice for people, it's rarely received with that energy from the more vocal segments of the internet.
I do a special little Halloween update, free for everyone?
"Why'd you even make this? Boring. Lame. Stupid."
I stay up all night on Christmas Eve, and sacrifice most of my Christmas Day, so I can release a free preview of Chapter 8?
"Ugh, short. Boring. Dev makes us wait months for this shit?? Dev doesn't know what he's doing. Too many paths, too much missed content."
I add much-requested features?
"I liked it the other way, change it back."
So: I plan to add music, eventually. Ditto quality animations. This isn't a short-term project for me. I anticipate working on it for a good while. But, I don't see myself having the time until Season One/Book One/Whatever the Fuck I Call It wraps up. At that point I'll start prepping the game for Steam distribution, and look at doing a lot of spit and polish work. But for now, the cost::benefit ratio is such that I see zero incentive to put more work on my plate.
To add a spoonful of sugar to this medicinal post, here's some older Wanton Weekends content, showing what this scene may have looked like if Britt's costume poll had swung towards another option.
Sooo, that leaves me with the option to:
- do a bad job of the music and take some time from the writing/art
- do a good job with the music and take a lot of time from the writing/art
- continue to ignore the music to focus on the writing/art
I'm not trying to be snippy, but I work an average of 60 hours a week at my day job, and haven't taken more than a week off from active development in two years. I put out content as frequently as I can, and I basically never miss updates on my subscription platforms. For that, here's a sample of the comments I can expect to get in return.
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Now, I'm not throwing a hissy fit. My supporters are lovely and my appreciation for them is bottomless.
But, every time I try to do something special/nice for people, it's rarely received with that energy from the more vocal segments of the internet.
I do a special little Halloween update, free for everyone?
"Why'd you even make this? Boring. Lame. Stupid."
I stay up all night on Christmas Eve, and sacrifice most of my Christmas Day, so I can release a free preview of Chapter 8?
"Ugh, short. Boring. Dev makes us wait months for this shit?? Dev doesn't know what he's doing. Too many paths, too much missed content."
I add much-requested features?
"I liked it the other way, change it back."
So: I plan to add music, eventually. Ditto quality animations. This isn't a short-term project for me. I anticipate working on it for a good while. But, I don't see myself having the time until Season One/Book One/Whatever the Fuck I Call It wraps up. At that point I'll start prepping the game for Steam distribution, and look at doing a lot of spit and polish work. But for now, the cost::benefit ratio is such that I see zero incentive to put more work on my plate.
To add a spoonful of sugar to this medicinal post, here's some older Wanton Weekends content, showing what this scene may have looked like if Britt's costume poll had swung towards another option.
Xythurr
Well-Known Member
- Oct 29, 2017
- 1,741
- 3,818
- 386
Try not to let the ingrates get you down bud. Your game is fantastic from the story to the eroticism of the writing in the lewd parts.
I would rather have that quality dialogue than animations if I had to choose. Too many games with nothin but an animation loop and 3 sentences of uninspired dialogue during the spicy parts.
We have standard porn for that IMO.
Keep up the great work and thanks for the great AVN!
Dessolos
Board Buff
- Jul 25, 2017
- 19,745
- 27,846
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Not gonna lie after reading you do plan to do animations at some point I somewhat cant wait for you to get to the point where you feel it's a good time to add them as I personally prefer animations before music. I agree story and renders should come first especially cause you didn't start with them. As to me me story and renders are more important than music or animations.
Numbperv
Newbie
- Nov 16, 2021
- 98
- 102
- 157
Hey bud, I know its hard to deal with this kinda of thing, I'm sure its just a tiny part of them that says stuff, but still hurts to see those sad comments about what you are hard working to deliver this awesome game that us love so much. Unfortunaly, this is something that you will always ending up seeing, so I just wish perseverance and lots of patience, this is one of the games that I am always glad and anxious to play, every update, and even though you see hurtful things here and there, I just want you to know, I love your game, love your work, you are a awesome dev and a good friend to the community. I wish you the best, and from the bottom of my heart, thanks NeonGhosts , you and your work are more than just a few petty comments
- Oct 24, 2018
- 4,666
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I think music and sfx is a very underrated part of art/cinematography, there is a reason we don't make silent movies anymore, but unless you want to fully embrace it is not worth it. Maybe after you finish the game.
That being said I can't tell you how many people I've seen comment about DPC and Drifty's soundtrack and how well they fit a scene. BUT those are the exceptions, for every LOF and DIK there a hundreds that just spin the wheel of 4.0 tracks with zero effort to fit the mood of what they are trying to convey with the scenes.
One more argument against it, the cost for premium soundtrack is in the 10k+ range for a longer VN, so don't know what return for investment you have without the Steam bucks.
Dr.Slime
Active Member
- Nov 15, 2022
- 764
- 1,670
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I honestly if a game has music i dont want to hear mute it then play my own (general for most VNs).
If i like it play it and have fun , before i thought “ wow a game without music i can’t play this , how can i enjoy it etc… but then i discovered Spotify or Youtube music is A thing can you believe it
.
for animation for what is worth i really ,
on my opinion don’t mind if there is or if there is not, if i like the story then everything fixes it self for me.
If i like it play it and have fun , before i thought “ wow a game without music i can’t play this , how can i enjoy it etc… but then i discovered Spotify or Youtube music is A thing can you believe it
.for animation for what is worth i really ,
on my opinion don’t mind if there is or if there is not, if i like the story then everything fixes it self for me.
ImSenjou
Active Member
- Apr 15, 2019
- 612
- 1,750
- 308
The first thing I do when starting a Ren'py game is mute the game's music and sounds, and then select all the 'SKIP' options, it's almost automatic for me to do this.
So I'm another one who doesn't care if there's music or not, I'll mute it anyway.
As for animations, when done well they are well accepted, but the bad ones, those that are basically 2sec stimuli loop, I prefer not to have them at all.
I've been finding some "weird" animations that I didn't like so much, they seem to be as if the stills were made in Daz and the animations in Blender, I can't like them; a great example is the game Unbroken I really liked the story, but I didn't like the animations, and I would have preferred it not to have them, the animations are well done, but the render seems to be different, I found similar animations in other games, and It always bothers me.
Quick edit:
I mentioned Unbroken, but another game that has similar but much better animation is The Hellcat Lounge, the dev of The Hellcat Lounge filled the game with animations, much more than I'm used to, and some are just a few frames, but it's well done, it's worth taking a look for some inspiration.
My 2 cents.
So I'm another one who doesn't care if there's music or not, I'll mute it anyway.
As for animations, when done well they are well accepted, but the bad ones, those that are basically 2sec stimuli loop, I prefer not to have them at all.
I've been finding some "weird" animations that I didn't like so much, they seem to be as if the stills were made in Daz and the animations in Blender, I can't like them; a great example is the game Unbroken I really liked the story, but I didn't like the animations, and I would have preferred it not to have them, the animations are well done, but the render seems to be different, I found similar animations in other games, and It always bothers me.
Quick edit:
I mentioned Unbroken, but another game that has similar but much better animation is The Hellcat Lounge, the dev of The Hellcat Lounge filled the game with animations, much more than I'm used to, and some are just a few frames, but it's well done, it's worth taking a look for some inspiration.
My 2 cents.
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GokutheG
Well-Known Member
- Oct 20, 2022
- 1,572
- 3,093
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No matter how much work you put out there will always be people who only want to bitch. Please don't let the very loud minority sour your mood. Most people enjoy and appreciate your hard work.
Joshy92
Message Maven
- Mar 25, 2021
- 13,903
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I can't believe some people act the way they do in those comments.
This is one of the few games on this site that draws me in & that is in my opinion a masterpiece.
The writing, the emotions, everything about it is good.
So many other games disappoint me but not this this game is special.
- May 31, 2017
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That's unfortunate Good Sir NeonGhosts. I might not have said it, but I have enjoyed your game immensely. (Hopefully one day my finances will improve to the point where I can feel good enough to back my words up with moneys) That said, I was partially hoping that all the negativity becomes fuel for the Good Sir NeonGhosts to go full Darth NeonGhosts.
I mean... I remember when I was a new grad out of college, one of my colleagues pointed out that he looked at hate mail as fan mail. He was referring at that time to people sending angry messages in a strategy game. But basically, if you're managing to elicit such a strong response out of somebody, you're probably actually doing something right. So I do hope you keep on trucking on.
GokutheG
Well-Known Member
- Oct 20, 2022
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Yeah I rarely play guy led games and the writing is what got me hooked on this one. The mc can be a very likable person. All the women and Mason are interesting and make me want to help them. And I definitely love that the player can shape the mc's relationship to the LIs. This is definitely one of the top adult games I've had the pleasure to play.
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blkcrow20
Forum Fanatic
- Nov 5, 2023
- 4,215
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I'll add my voice to the previous posts - ignore the naysayers. I appreciate everything you put into this game, a game I love to play. I am also another person that plays all my AVNs without sound. Animations when done good, can add a lot to a game. IMO.
Best thing you can do is to try and ignore, possibly mute, those who don't offer any constructive criticism and only offer toxicity like the first one in those example comments. That kind of toxicity has sadly damaged many creative people, and by proxy the people who like the creative work.
About music and animations, i prefer to mute pretty much most VNs i play, especially if the music starts blaring before i even have chance to balance the sound options. So in that sense i prefer your approach of only adding music at the end of development. So many devs don't put the effort in actually having good sound balance and cause the music overwhelm pretty much anything. Animations are nice, but as you said, it's better to focus on the writing and creating the scenes etc... before adding animations, since those can easily triple the dev time. Iirc Moonbox, the dev of Grandma's House did a side story prequel episode to his game to test how animations would affect the dev time and said it made it from few weeks to 6 weeks easily.
All in all, keep up the good work and provide us with Gabby and Ashe content, with side order of other LIs.
Dark Silence
Devoted Member
- Jul 17, 2021
- 9,617
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If Neon has ownership of the thread, he could easily thread ban assholes. If he doesn't, a mod will do it if he requests it.Best thing you can do is to try and ignore, possibly mute, those who don't offer any constructive criticism and only offer toxicity like the first one in those example comments. That kind of toxicity has sadly damaged many creative people, and by proxy the people who like the creative work.
About music and animations, i prefer to mute pretty much most VNs i play, especially if the music starts blaring before i even have chance to balance the sound options. So in that sense i prefer your approach of only adding music at the end of development. So many devs don't put the effort in actually having good sound balance and cause the music overwhelm pretty much anything. Animations are nice, but as you said, it's better to focus on the writing and creating the scenes etc... before adding animations, since those can easily triple the dev time. Iirc Moonbox, the dev of Grandma's House did a side story prequel episode to his game to test how animations would affect the dev time and said it made it from few weeks to 6 weeks easily.
All in all, keep up the good work and provide us with Gabby and Ashe content, with side order of other LIs.
I think the example comments he put in spoilers were from Patreon.
is there 2 version of where chapter 8 ended?
the one i got from f95 just now ended with Lucien Graves introducing himself (i used patch)
the one i played previously ended with the cops being called on MC (but this version has black screen though, it has no pictures throughout).
the one i got from f95 just now ended with Lucien Graves introducing himself (i used patch)
the one i played previously ended with the cops being called on MC (but this version has black screen though, it has no pictures throughout).
Ottoeight
Forum Fanatic
- Mar 13, 2021
- 5,844
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You apparently played either 0.55 or the preview demo release. Dunno, because I waited for 0.57.
Anyway, I don't think chapter 8 ends with 0.57: am I wrong?