VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [S1 v0.85c] [NeonGhosts]

[jadepaladin]

This thread is why developers leave F95. I'm glad Neon seems to take it in stride. Some of the trolling is pretty funny all things considered.

 

[GaRbS]

This thread is why developers leave F95. I'm glad Neon seems to take it in stride. Some of the trolling is pretty funny all things considered.

If devs cannot stand being outside echo chambers filled with loyal cultists, that's on them.

 

[jadepaladin]

If devs cannot stand being outside echo chambers filled with loyal cultists, that's on them.

Hence I'm glad Neon is still around.

 

[Rorikon215]

I haven't seen anyone call you lazy since the latest update dropped.
I've also haven't seen anyone accuse you of milking since the latest update dropped

Honestly I think you're fighting ghosts and not addressing the actual concerns people here are giving.

STOP MILKING US NEON! YOU'RE SO FUCKING LAZY!

There. Now someone has used that exact wording in the past few days.

Now address the entirely valid concerns that have never, ever been answered dozens of times in the past year!

 

[Deleted member 9257078]

This thread is why developers leave F95. I'm glad Neon seems to take it in stride. Some of the trolling is pretty funny all things considered.

It's a great game and for the dev to make money on Steam he has to follow certain guidelines.

It's completely understandable and the remake is actually pretty decent with a lot of extra content for the earlier chapters as well.

Compared to half the abandonware on this site, can you really fault the dev? At least this game is regularly receiving meaningful updates.

 

[jadepaladin]

It's a great game and for the dev to make money on Steam he has to follow certain guidelines.

It's completely understandable and the remake is actually pretty decent with a lot of extra content for the earlier chapters as well.

Compared to half the abandonware on this site, can you really fault the dev? At least this game is regularly receiving meaningful updates.

I played the original version up to chapter 9. When I saw the remake announcement, I probably did what the majority of people do in that situation and facepalmed/worried about the future of it. Originally I was going to wait for the remake to be fully caught up before trying it out again but I got impatient and played it yesterday. It blows the original out of the water and I think Neon did a fantastic job.

Of course, people see remake and immediately assume the worst, we're almost conditioned to it based on how many remakes turn into abandonware, like you said.

All I can really say is, give it a shot, and you shouldn't be disappointed. If you still are, then the VN isn't for you and there are hundreds more to choose from. I hope a Steam release is successful and he gets to complete this and move onto future projects.

 

[Joshy92]

I don't thnik you're milking at all, but I think remaking games is a terrible idea just practically.

1) A person will only have the creative drive to push a project as long as he finds it interesting. This doesn't last forever. At a certain point, a creative project becomes a job and a chore. Very few people have the discipline and drive to maintain a high level when something is painful, boring and uninteresting. Therefore if a dev goes to remake old chapters there's a very solid chance the quality of the new work will either drop or the frequency/amount of his work will. Some devs (the highest subbed ones) can circumvent this for long projects by hiring teams to do the boring work. Still.

2) We don't consume the game the way you develop it. You're immersed in it fully, constantly. You have to do it. We don't and we'll very rarely replay a game from start to finish every update. This means we'll catch up to the story only a few times. Between that, we consume 15000 other games, series, books, etc. That means the more we're out of it, the less we care and the more times we have to remind ourselves why we care, the more difficult it'll be to do so. So games that take huge amounts of time between proper progress simply fall off, even if their quality is kept high.

Me, personally, I think this game was one of my favorites. But it's been several years since I've had one single interaction with the young black girl and the fact I'm not even able to recall her name should tell you enough. Every time I see an update I get excited and every time there's nothing to be excited about, it's a little bit of care gone.

The correct way to rework was the Dreams of Desire way - a new, big, reworked release of the game after it was finished. It itself was like a brand new game and exciting as hell to redo.

At the end of the day, it's the devs personal choice. But I think you'd benefit from the point of view of people you'll rarely hear from, because most who think the way I do have just lost interest to the point they won't even bother to say why.

Again, no attack or whatever, just sharing a point of view I think is useful.

I understand your opinion but it's too much of a generalisation. Steam is a big platform and if you market a game right it could make more than a patreon account easily.

And lot's of people rwill still focus on the game. I haven't stopped thinkign about it since I first played it.

Finally NG wants to make the best game he possibly can because he's an artist and they understand the things they create better than we do.

 

[Daermon420]

Oh no, it's obviously a good business practice for devs to earn more money. I mean it's bad for consumers, which in turn will later turn out to be bad for the overall industry.

You do realize nobody is forcing Patreon subscribers to keep their subs going with a gun to their heads right? If those people are unsatisfied with the developer they are free to cancel their subscription any time they want.

Those entire platforms are built around supporting creators you like, not buying products. So if some want to stay subscribed to developers that don't produce much content, that is their prerogative.

It's only bad for consumers if they're being forced to continue paying for whatever reason.

People whining about milking on a pirate forum will change nothing and achieve nothing, except annoying other users of the site.

Not being a fan of remakes is one thing, but milking implies the dev is doing nothing and coasting on that subscriber money, milking it for all its worth while putting in minimal effort. NeonGhosts is clearly not milking their subs and has obviously put a lot of time and effort into this game, including the recently reworked content.

 

[Siphon]

Is there a reason this new version doesn't have the other chapters added in as well? I'm hoping we get some Cassie content soon

Considering how sanitized it is I doubt we'll get Cassie content ever.

 

[GaRbS]

You do realize nobody is forcing Patreon subscribers to keep their subs going with a gun to their heads right? If those people are unsatisfied with the developer they are free to cancel their subscription any time they want.

Those entire platforms are built around supporting creators you like, not buying products. So if some want to stay subscribed to developers that don't produce much content, that is their prerogative.

It's only bad for consumers if they're being forced to continue paying for whatever reason.

People whining about milking on a pirate forum will change nothing and achieve nothing, except annoying other users of the site.

Not being a fan of remakes is one thing, but milking implies the dev is doing nothing and coasting on that subscriber money, milking it for all its worth while putting in minimal effort. @NeonGhosts is clearly not milking their subs and has obviously put a lot of time and effort into this game, including the recently reworked content.

I've never accused NeonGhosts of milking, you're grasping at straws here. And no, it IS bad for consumers even tho the subscribers are not being forced to keep supporting. Those people support devs who have game in development with the intention of helping the creator make their game, them stopping the support in most cases will not have any positive effect on the game's development.

So the paying subscribers become hostages of their own making. Do they keep supporting the game in the hope that it'll get better in the future or do they stop supporting the game and risk causing the game's development to worsen or even stop altogether?

It matters not whether the dev has good intentions with their actions or if they're just maliciously milking, the outcome is still the same, a state that is bad for consumers, both the pirates and the paying supporters.

I personally do not believe NeonGhosts is milking, I think they're simply correcting for past mistakes, which is something that takes both time and effort. I do not like the fact there is rework being done, I personally don't think a rework is 100% absolutely necessary, but I do recognize that the rework improves several things about the game both for the perspective of the consumer and easier development in the future.

I'm simply pointing out a pattern within the industry. Whether this game will fall into a death spiral or not is still yet to be determined.

 

[Pixillin']

I can only assume that it's the Dark Path that poisons the well. I hope that other devs take the lesson and do not produce that kind of content. There are devs on here who take 10-12 months between updates, as well as devs who have done multiple remakes, including one who has spent most of the last two years tweaking the UI, who do not get 1/10th the grief that Neon does. So, it must be the dark path content that draws toxic people to this game and then those people proceed to be toxic. I think I've blocked 20-25 people in the last 24 hours.

 

[GaRbS]

I can only assume that it's the Dark Path that poisons the well. I hope that other devs take the lesson and do not produce that kind of content. There are devs on here who take 10-12 months between updates, as well as devs who have done multiple remakes, including one who has spent most of the last two years tweaking the UI, who do not get 1/10th the grief that Neon does. So, it must be the dark path content that draws toxic people to this game and then those people proceed to be toxic. I think I've blocked 20-25 people in the last 24 hours.

Holy freaking Jesus, now we got the anti-squad trying to moralize fictional content in pirate porn games site.

 

[ffive]

No, you could in fact care less, by not responding to people complaining about the remake.

I couldn't care less about the difference between the types of remakes, not about people whining how it rustles their jimmies. The latter evidently holds some interest otherwise you're right, i'd simply ignore it.

The continual support model is precisely the bad business conduct I'm talking about you idiot.

And i'm pointing out these are two different principles, genius. It's bad in your eyes but that's all it is, a loud and opinionated whining.

Western VN devs like to treat their subscribers like investors that bankroll their projects with the only thing they get in return is the product that normally a consumer would get for a one-time purchase.

Bingo, this is exactly what patreon/subscribestar model is. It's for products which require significant money to make but for whatever reason your typical investors won't touch it with a 10 foot stick. Which shouldn't be a surprise when it comes to porn games with potentially funny stuff like rape and such.

 

[Daermon420]

I've never accused NeonGhosts of milking, you're grasping at straws here.

That part wasn't directed at you specifically, but at the others in here obviously whining about milking.

And no, it IS bad for consumers even tho the subscribers are not being forced to keep supporting. Those people support devs who have game in development with the intention of helping the creator make their game, them stopping the support in most cases will not have any positive effect on the game's development.

So the paying subscribers become hostages of their own making. Do they keep supporting the game in the hope that it'll get better in the future or do they stop supporting the game and risk causing the game's development to worsen or even stop altogether?

It matters not whether the dev has good intentions with their actions or if they're just maliciously milking, the outcome is still the same, a state that is bad for consumers, both the pirates and the paying supporters.

If them stopping support won't help the games development, and them continuing support also won't help the games development, guess what, that game was probably never going to be finished in a satisfactory way from the beginning.

Claiming they are hostages is laughable. If people are too weak willed to say "Okay I've had enough I'm going to stop paying this dev!" that is on them, not the developer and not on the website the dev uses.

And the developers intentions matter a lot. If they're actively developing the game instead of maliciously milking as you say, the outcome is not the same at all. In the first case, the game is being made, in the second it's not.

 

[applepie68]

This'll be my last word on this, because honestly? This shit just bums me out. There's all kinds of neat little story-centric things to discuss in the new material, but it's drowned out by the chorus of people complaining that I'm apparently holding all my supporters' families hostage, and forcing them to support me month after month. It's tiresome.

Don't listen to the nay sayers, Ive been following since this was first shared, you have been one of the most responsive devs I've seen, and honestly, you've always delivered. I think this is the first time Ive seen so much content being added in a rewriting of the first chapter, its really impressive. Really love how much you fleshed out the background and incorporated the characters that were added later retroactively.

On a side note was Gabby always in college, I could have swore she wasn't. Does anybody have an older version saved

Love how the game still allows be to be nice to some folks and evil to others or even backtrack. The fact that there are events that take the different combinations into account is amazing.

 

[Jplays512]

Jesus Christ this discussion is wild. I am honestly surprised Neon handled it as well as he does because I only found this game like a week or two ago and find it enjoyable and the anger aimed at him makes me want to avoid this discussion.

When I found this game only chapter one was in the remake now chapter 2 and 3 are fully remade and a large chunk of the original chapters are in the new formate. Most likely by August we will have everything in the remake form and it sounds like chapter 11 is chugging along nicely. Is there something I am missing here given how new I am to this game? People are acting like this is an ocean or dark cookie remake when it seems to be a really rapid update.

 

[Xypher]

I can only assume that it's the Dark Path that poisons the well. I hope that other devs take the lesson and do not produce that kind of content. There are devs on here who take 10-12 months between updates, as well as devs who have done multiple remakes, including one who has spent most of the last two years tweaking the UI, who do not get 1/10th the grief that Neon does. So, it must be the dark path content that draws toxic people to this game and then those people proceed to be toxic. I think I've blocked 20-25 people in the last 24 hours.

Dude, I'm a fan of the Dark Path but I love all paths generally, especially the Love Path and I have no issues with Neon doing a remake or long updates at all. I personally respect his craft for the game.

Please stop the assumption those who like Dark Path are plain assholes.

 

[Pixillin']

Jesus Christ this discussion is wild. I am honestly surprised Neon handled it as well as he does because I only found this game like a week or two ago and find it enjoyable and the anger aimed at him makes me want to avoid this discussion.

When I found this game only chapter one was in the remake now chapter 2 and 3 are fully remade and a large chunk of the original chapters are in the new formate. Most likely by August we will have everything in the remake form and it sounds like chapter 11 is chugging along nicely. Is there something I am missing here given how new I am to this game? People are acting like this is an ocean or dark cookie remake when it seems to be a really rapid update.

Neon is a good artist and writer. He has created some beautiful young women, with realistic personalities. Some people have allowed the line between fantasy and reality to blur a little too much, have decided those women are at least somewhat real, want to hurt them and think Neon is cock blocking them. Part of me wants him to put in a scene where you choose the "rape her" option and suddenly you're lying on the couch with an AI therapist asking about your childhood.

 

[Joshy92]

I can only assume that it's the Dark Path that poisons the well. I hope that other devs take the lesson and do not produce that kind of content. There are devs on here who take 10-12 months between updates, as well as devs who have done multiple remakes, including one who has spent most of the last two years tweaking the UI, who do not get 1/10th the grief that Neon does. So, it must be the dark path content that draws toxic people to this game and then those people proceed to be toxic. I think I've blocked 20-25 people in the last 24 hours.

I don't think it's only the dark path. Unfortunately this game just attracts bullies who try to shit on NG.

 

[Maviarab]

Ohhh the irony....