VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [Ch. 9 v0.60c] [NeonGhosts]

[gregers]

I always suspected that Nicki’s story would be a little challenging for some players (though I’ll admit to being surprised at the intensity of the push-back..) but I’m glad she’s connecting with others.

I think their initial night together will always come across as exploitative, no matter which path you choose. She's using the MC to stave off her debt and (in some cases) then using that as an excuse to cheat on her boyfriend, while the MC is obviously exploiting her desperate situation for sex (to a lesser or much greater extent, depending on the path). The way she turns up at his place, dressed up from how he usually sees her, and spends the whole evening letting him ogle her before getting to the point makes her come across (to me anyway) as at least trying to be manipulative.

Salvaging an equal, romantic relationship from that starting point would always be tricky (but to be fair, I'm not even trying).

(On a side note, glancing at the script for 3.2, I thought it interesting that as far as I can tell, the three possible paths for her initial event don't map entirely on to her paths going forward, but the 'humiliation' and 'rape' paths from the first event are largely treated as identical, both possibly leading to either her 'friendship' or 'submission' paths.)

 

[Canto Forte]

That makes perfect sense. Her second appearence after also a long dissapearence
is almost identical: she needs help and she asks MC for forgiveness. She either gets it or not. She is still tied to her BF, she has gone and done a lot worse than
whatever she had done with MC, but now she brings the added: SHE IS A HUMAN MEAT SLEEVE WHO HAS RUN AWAY FROM HER HUMAN TRAFFICKERS. SHE OWES THEM.
So MC is now in a hell of a dangerous position as Brent COULD ALWAYS TELL HIS LAWN
SHARKS WHERE MC LIVES SO THEY COULD COME IN AND TAKE EVRYTHING/KILL EVERYONE.

I thought it interesting

MC is in a pickle so he is already living dangerously just by being near her.

 

[NewTricks]

That makes perfect sense. Her second appearence after also a long dissapearence
is almost identical: she needs help and she asks MC for forgiveness. She either gets it or not. She is still tied to her BF, she has gone and done a lot worse than
whatever she had done with MC, but now she brings the added: SHE IS A HUMAN MEAT SLEEVE WHO HAS RUN AWAY FROM HER HUMAN TRAFFICKERS. SHE OWES THEM.
So MC is now in a hell of a dangerous position as Brent COULD ALWAYS TELL HIS LAWN
SHARKS WHERE MC LIVES SO THEY COULD COME IN AND TAKE EVRYTHING/KILL EVERYONE.


MC is in a pickle so he is already living dangerously just by being near her.

Orrrrrrrr..... Brent is just a loser that works at a convenience store, never lost any money, and almost everything that Nikki has told as a sob story is bullshit. That in reality she just spent the last three months blowing through 20 grand's worth of spray tans and tattoos while hitting the dance club every night. That too is a possibility.

 

[NeonGhosts]

Well now I just want to make Ganguro Girl Nicki a thing..

 

[NeonGhosts]

Just as a friendly reminder,

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, and teases of the upcoming script for future chapters and mini-games. This week I posted a file that adds the text-only intro to Chapter Four of FiN, for anyone who might want to follow along with the development - be it for suggestions, playtesting, or just to watch my sloppy creative process.

And I posted a little art featuring Pepper, who will return in Chapter Four.

 

[v1900]

That makes perfect sense. Her second appearence after also a long dissapearence
is almost identical: she needs help and she asks MC for forgiveness. She either gets it or not. She is still tied to her BF, she has gone and done a lot worse than
whatever she had done with MC, but now she brings the added: SHE IS A HUMAN MEAT SLEEVE WHO HAS RUN AWAY FROM HER HUMAN TRAFFICKERS. SHE OWES THEM.
So MC is now in a hell of a dangerous position as Brent COULD ALWAYS TELL HIS LAWN
SHARKS WHERE MC LIVES SO THEY COULD COME IN AND TAKE EVRYTHING/KILL EVERYONE.


MC is in a pickle so he is already living dangerously just by being near her.

She was the victim of the nicer and most considerate human trafficker ever.
And also, the victim of the most inept and stupid human traffickers ever.

I mean, she is the luckiest gal ever to be trafficked, she never had to have sex while been trafficked, not once but twice. But all good things have to come to an end, because I put her aboard the rape train in this update.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

Nicki was never sold as a sex slave but she was going from one abusive relationship to the next until she lands on Good Guy's house (bad pun intended).

 

[v1900]

Well now I just want to make Ganguro Girl Nicki a thing..

View attachment 2054857

You know it makes perfect sense for an ending or late game state. Same as you are considering tattoo removal after her arc is completed, her Ganguro variation could be her corruption ending aesthetic or late game state. Shit, give her some fake tits along with the Ganguro looks and you got a nice corruption ending for your VN.

Or a less fucked up scenario could be to have her one or two updates rocking that look while she gets her shit together.

 

[v1900]

Nicki was never sold as a sex slave but she was going from one abusive relationship to the next until she lands on Good Guy's house (bad pun intended).

Dude the whole thing with the loan shark making her shoot porn (even though she escaped) and the Florida man making her shoot soft porn and the whole tattoo shit is well within the Palermo Protocol's definition of sex trafficking.

Reading your post again I think that it will be best to say that sex trafficking encompasses sex slavery and other circumstances related to exploitation. So yes, Nicki was not a sex slave, but she was deceived into been sexually exploited. Thus, she was a victim of sex trafficking.

 

[NewTricks]

Dude the whole thing with the loan shark making her shoot porn (even though she escaped) and the Florida man making her shoot soft porn and the whole tattoo shit is well within the Palermo Protocol's definition of sex trafficking.

Reading your post again I think that it will be best to say that sex trafficking encompasses sex slavery and other circumstances related to exploitation. So yes, Nicki was not a sex slave, but she was deceived into been sexually exploited. Thus, she was a victim of sex trafficking.

Agreed. Assuming that she isn't just pulling her story out of her ass it certainly sounds like it passes the Epstein test. Most victims of trafficking, sexual or otherwise, are induced to do so in order to repay some kind of debt that may or may not be possible to remunerate.

 

[v1900]

Agreed. Assuming that she isn't just pulling her story out of her ass it certainly sounds like it passes the Epstein test. Most victims of trafficking, sexual or otherwise, are induced to do so in order to repay some kind of debt that may or may not be possible to remunerate.

Yeah, it sounds like she pulled it out of her ass. Her fingers still reek of shit while she is telling her story.

Then again, she needs a fighting chance for the love path.

Even though we know better.

 

[NewTricks]

Yeah, it sounds like she pulled it out of her ass. Her fingers still reek of shit while she is telling her story.

Then again, she needs a fighting chance for the love path. View attachment 2055662

Even though we know better.

I don't know if either outcome makes her better for the love path. I think I would prefer her being a cunning lying bitch to being a complete trusting moron if those are our only two choices.

 

[v1900]

I don't know if either outcome makes her better for the love path. I think I would prefer her being a cunning lying bitch to being a complete trusting moron if those are our only two choices.

Would certainly make for a better accomplice, shit I mean wingwoman, for our "charitable" efforts.

 

[gregers]

Orrrrrrrr..... Brent is just a loser that works at a convenience store, never lost any money, and almost everything that Nikki has told as a sob story is bullshit. That in reality she just spent the last three months blowing through 20 grand's worth of spray tans and tattoos while hitting the dance club every night. That too is a possibility.

Boring "well, actually ..." reply. Caution: Extreme boredom.

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[NewTricks]

Boring "well, actually ..." reply. Caution: Extreme boredom.

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Good point. I didn't remember that part even though I did play the path. Then again, there has been more than one version of the "hard" path. But when it comes to Brett, who knows? He could have been in on the initial grift and is after her because once she had cash in hand she completely ghosted him and smashed down hard on the party button. This is why so many praise the story of this VN because there is room for mystery and uncertainty, and much is up for interpretation.

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

Dude the whole thing with the loan shark making her shoot porn (even though she escaped) and the Florida man making her shoot soft porn and the whole tattoo shit is well within the Palermo Protocol's definition of sex trafficking.

Reading your post again I think that it will be best to say that sex trafficking encompasses sex slavery and other circumstances related to exploitation. So yes, Nicki was not a sex slave, but she was deceived into been sexually exploited. Thus, she was a victim of sex trafficking.

Ok, someone help me if I'm wrong because honestly it was a little too unbelievable and genuinely a little confusing to have both Florida man and loan shark man be her sort of antagonists or w/e. From memory, I don't recall Florida man deceiving her or trying to force her, though, right? Didn't he merely escalate what he was asking of her? And then she just decided she didn't want to have sex or w/e? If my memory isn't failing me and that's how it happened, then I wouldn't consider that anywhere near sex trafficking; I honestly think it'd be a little infantilizing to consider it as such. The loan shark scenario, though, yeah obviously they tried to deceive her and intimidate her into sex she didn't agree to... I mean, that whole thing was clearly a whole truckload of charges. It doesn't really make me think of 'sex trafficking', but I've never tried to specifically define it, so I guess it'd probably make sense if someone explained it to me. There's a really good chance it would've lead to sex trafficking, though, for sure.

 

[v1900]

Ok, someone help me if I'm wrong because honestly it was a little too unbelievable and genuinely a little confusing to have both Florida man and loan shark man be her sort of antagonists or w/e. From memory, I don't recall Florida man deceiving her or trying to force her, though, right? Didn't he merely escalate what he was asking of her? And then she just decided she didn't want to have sex or w/e? If my memory isn't failing me and that's how it happened, then I wouldn't consider that anywhere near sex trafficking; I honestly think it'd be a little infantilizing to consider it as such. The loan shark scenario, though, yeah obviously they tried to deceive her and intimidate her into sex she didn't agree to... I mean, that whole thing was clearly a whole truckload of charges. It doesn't really make me think of 'sex trafficking', but I've never tried to specifically define it, so I guess it'd probably make sense if someone explained it to me. There's a really good chance it would've lead to sex trafficking, though, for sure.

You have to consider that the way it is worded in the Palermo Protocol (recognized by the UN), it is too far reaching in a way that it protects what we could consider as a really dumb person. The reason is because most often than not they are 12- to 13-year-old kids. So, it has to protect kids with little to no experience and judgment. This extends to adults, making no distinction between their mental capacity.

So, if Nicki gets offered a job as a normal model but she then gets coerced into nude modeling or pornography, she is considered as a sex trafficking victim. Now the tricky part is that most anything can be argued as a form of coercion. For example, giving her gifts, giving her affection, etc; and then guilting her into feeling an obligation to pay it back is considered coercion. Even if we can see that as a blatant manipulation tactic and would say fuck you and walk away, remember that a 12-year-old kid or a domestically abused youth might not see it that way and feel she needs to pay it back. Even though Nicki is a full-blown adult and should know better, that protection is extended to her. It could be argued that her possibility of becoming homeless makes her at risk of falling prey to such tactics.

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Check that link and then make the mental exercise of thinking how you would word a definition and law to protect the victims and you will see the need to have it so far reaching. It is a really interesting topic.

 

[Ragnar]

Orrrrrrrr..... Brent is just a loser that works at a convenience store, never lost any money, and almost everything that Nikki has told as a sob story is bullshit. That in reality she just spent the last three months blowing through 20 grand's worth of spray tans and tattoos while hitting the dance club every night. That too is a possibility.

I though about that possibility while playing but it doesn't make sense.
The first time it was Brent idea to ask for money. The second time she doesn't ask for money. She wants shelter and she says she had paid most of her new debt. So we can say she's not the sharpest tool in the shed or that she has bad luck but it doesn't look like a gold digger.
On the other hand she has now a rich degenerate obssesed with her, I'm talking about the Florida guy not our MC
So I think that while she is not ill intentioned she's problems.

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

You have to consider that the way it is worded in the Palermo Protocol (recognized by the UN), it is too far reaching in a way that it protects what we could consider as a really dumb person. The reason is because most often than not they are 12- to 13-year-old kids. So, it has to protect kids with little to no experience and judgment. This extends to adults, making no distinction between their mental capacity.

So, if Nicki gets offered a job as a normal model but she then gets coerced into nude modeling or pornography, she is considered as a sex trafficking victim. Now the tricky part is that most anything can be argued as a form of coercion. For example, giving her gifts, giving her affection, etc; and then guilting her into feeling an obligation to pay it back is considered coercion. Even if we can see that as a blatant manipulation tactic and would say fuck you and walk away, remember that a 12-year-old kid or a domestically abused youth might not see it that way and feel she needs to pay it back. Even though Nicki is a full-blown adult and should know better, that protection is extended to her. It could be argued that her possibility of becoming homeless makes her at risk of falling prey to such tactics.

You must be registered to see the links

Check that link and then make the mental exercise of thinking how you would word a definition and law to protect the victims and you will see the need to have it so far reaching. It is a really interesting topic.

I see, thank you for the thoughtful response! Yes, it's interesting topic morally and philosophically. I 100% understand having an extremely wide net for underage, but for someone Nicki's age, I don't know, I think we should have a distinction. In my mind, the more distinctions there are, the closer you can get to a true justice for w/e the situation is. But I'm armchairing here, as I don't know what the reality of executing this stuff is... maybe having it more simple does more good than harm.

But, well, anyways, regardless of how an official definition or court may see it, I do still think Nicki is responsible for w/e she agreed to with Florida man personally. I realize gifts and the like could be interpreted as manipulation, but you could say the same for any normal date relationship really... or porn for that matter... they get paid to have sex, after all. And it's clear to me that Nicki knew what she was doing, she seemed to me that she just wasn't entirely sure if she wanted to go through with it. Obviously, considering her trouble with the loan shark people, her situation was unique and she was definitely a victim, just not of florida man I don't think. In my mind, it'd basically be one of those situations where we can maybe agree that Florida man is a dick or a creep, but I don't really wish anything terrible on him or anything, it wasn't something so egregious, at least based on what she told MC (again, if I remember it right)... and definitely don't think it should be considered illegal. But that's just my reading of it, maybe I'm wrong or haven't considered other things.

 

[v1900]

I see, thank you for the thoughtful response! Yes, it's interesting topic morally and philosophically. I 100% understand having an extremely wide net for underage, but for someone Nicki's age, I don't know, I think we should have a distinction. In my mind, the more distinctions there are, the closer you can get to a true justice for w/e the situation is. But I'm armchairing here, as I don't know what the reality of executing this stuff is... maybe having it more simple does more good than harm.

But, well, anyways, regardless of how an official definition or court may see it, I do still think Nicki is responsible for w/e she agreed to with Florida man personally. I realize gifts and the like could be interpreted as manipulation, but you could say the same for any normal date relationship really... or porn for that matter... they get paid to have sex, after all. And it's clear to me that Nicki knew what she was doing, she seemed to me that she just wasn't entirely sure if she wanted to go through with it. Obviously, considering her trouble with the loan shark people, her situation was unique and she was definitely a victim, just not of florida man I don't think. In my mind, it'd basically be one of those situations where we can maybe agree that Florida man is a dick or a creep, but I don't really wish anything terrible on him or anything, it wasn't something so egregious, at least based on what she told MC (again, if I remember it right)... and definitely don't think it should be considered illegal. But that's just my reading of it, maybe I'm wrong or haven't considered other things.

Yeah, your logic regarding Florida man is similar to our logic and why some of us are calling her dumb instead of sympathizing with the character. It is a grey area where arguments could be made for either side (victim or not).