Others Going Deeper [Beta 1.5] [NRFB Games]

[NRFB]

But oh yeah, there was one skill I was *really* interested in, but I can't figure out what it was that I triggered to enable it... For that matter, I've been having a lot of trouble getting Regrowth on Lucette, despite meeting one of the two requirements mentioned in an earlier post (Constitution + 5 uses of Thorns, despite not having enough Health for the alternate requirement) Are these new skills highly dependent on the Drive system? Because I'd love to try a build combining Conduit, Spellsword, Reserve Battery, Regrowth, Barkskin, and Cable Management. Honestly, the whole theme feels like some kind of supervillain.

None of the listed skills there have desire requirements. There are some Fury based skills in now which generally want high Triumph drive though.

Finally, will the dialogue actually change if certain curses are maxed out? I mess around with Lucielle the most and her dialogue hasn't really changed nor does she act differently in the dungeon. I know at the moment it's just implementing the system but I thought I was doing a lot of damage to her psyche and having no actual change.

There are some chats/dialogue changes, but you gotta understand it's the kind of thing that goes on endlessly. I could sit down and make dozens of new chat messages/dialogue changes based on all the many different things that I can check for (status counts, skills, curses, events, and a whole bunch of other stuff), and then put them in the game and an average person might end up only seeing a handful of them in a playthrough. It's still something that's worth it for me to spend time on, and I will occasionally, but it's the kind of thing where there's always going to be more "hey shouldn't they comment on X?" to work on.

It does make me wonder if I should think about mod support sooner than later, but then I guess that doesn't always solve it, since not everyone is going to want to add content themselves just because they see something they feel is missing.

is it going to also affect the dialogue later?

Yes.

One more thing I noticed with New Game+. I tried to maintain the desire score into the next game, but it just reset to default anyway so I had to do the manipulation all over again.

That's not what that option is meant to do. It just gives access to desire manipulation from the start.

Some of the mechanics in this game kinda go over my head, like the counters for combat/disarming (doesn't help that I played this way too late at night) but otherwise I enjoyed this a decent bit... particularly as a vessel for lesbian content. That "threesome" pains my heart, lol.

I'll write it eventually, but it's already written so well, who knows if I could possibly improve it.

It'd be nice if the MC could get involved too, but with the "customizable" MC that doesn't work quite as well, unless you settled for one static design each for the male and female MC. And of course then you're having to write and implement different versions of scenes depending on player gender, which is bound to slow development... maybe it's best the MC remains a voyeuristic mind controller of dubious consent.

It'll happen, though I'm only intending for there to be scenes for male and female so that appearance is still purely cosmetic. I'm not going to do specific things for each character portrait even though I'm sure everyone would love to hear specifics about gyaru Female2 or femboy Male5 or whatever.

One last thing, since I'm not sure if it's in there yet: any real yuri with the shortstack imp, or is she more of just a status effect causer/debuffer with flavorful scenes?

Just teasing now. If I recall correctly, none of the teasing even has any unique images, even for the more elaborate ones.

Hey the booty scene is something. It even has its own art!
I do want to write more imp (like most threats honestly), although she doesn't really have the numbers to be a long term threat in later floors, so I'd probably have to do something about that too.

how much curse in the game ?

23 curse

Got a question for the game's MC. (inserts professor oak) are you a Boy, or are you a Girl?

the question that defines a generation

 

[icollectsouls]

Hey the booty scene is something. It even has its own art!
I do want to write more imp (like most threats honestly), although she doesn't really have the numbers to be a long term threat in later floors, so I'd probably have to do something about that too.

Not the most elegant solution, but you could always go with the classic "stronger version of an enemy that's just a recolor" that JRPGs have been doing since they were invented. Of course, that might just lead to people getting sick of encountering what's essentially the same enemy on later floors. Maybe if there was a way to force encounters against easier enemies/traps, or re-visit earlier floors? Just... maybe with the caveat that you can't really get any permanent progression or effects like stat/skill points and corruption/curses. Though besides the possibility of getting some scene you haven't encountered before, that'd be... really lacking in purpose.
On that note, I think it'd make sense if encountering a monster/trap could contribute to the research, without invalidating the research done at camp. Something like a research value out of 100 for each thing to be researched, and a knight dealing with a threat contributes a far smaller amount to the value compared to the stuff MC does at camp. I'm just saying, if a knight defeats a pink slime enough times, she should be able to pick up a thing or two on how to fight it. (Or if she gets caught in the same trap multiple times, there's gotta be a point where you know how to disarm a magic clock more efficiently.)

 

[Rosen King]

Hey the booty scene is something. It even has its own art!

Oh right, I misspoke. I meant "scenes with the girls". I guess I was thinking about how each girl gets her own unique art for the scene.

I do want to write more imp (like most threats honestly), although she doesn't really have the numbers to be a long term threat in later floors, so I'd probably have to do something about that too.

There's nothing wrong with reusing content and putting a Greater Imp (or G.Imp for short) in later floors, giving her new attacks and events while also reusing old events (such that they're not even counted as separate unlocks) for generic attacks and stuff used by the weaker version. You could even have a sort of ongoing story thread for these kinds of monsters, where newer scenes reference old encounters. It would be interesting to have certain monsters be treated like a rival who keeps coming back in stronger, more evolved forms.

 

[FriendlyRatPerson]

Holy shit this is fun. Honestly hyped for the next version already. Thats rare these days, adult life sucks sweaty monkey balls.

 

[arthtrh]

Just wanted to say thanks a lot for releasing a Linux version, mate!

 

[Rosen King]

Oh, and happy birthday.

 

[Nej_Aldrig]

I really like the soundtrack, very relaxing yet engaging. A bit of FTL, some Starsector.

Is it some free music or actually made for the game?

 

[NRFB]

Not the most elegant solution, but you could always go with the classic "stronger version of an enemy that's just a recolor" that JRPGs have been doing since they were invented. Of course, that might just lead to people getting sick of encountering what's essentially the same enemy on later floors.

To some degree this is already a thing with the way that modifiers are doled out (Dire and Monstrous increase base stats, Runty and Weakling decrease them). I suppose I could just add more of those, along with other stuff.

Holy shit this is fun. Honestly hyped for the next version already.

I really like the soundtrack, very relaxing yet engaging. A bit of FTL, some Starsector.

Is it some free music or actually made for the game?

None of the music was made for the game. Most of it is primarily CC0 licensed stuff from opengameart.org, with a handful grabbed from pixabay and some found/bought in various music packs on itch.io. I'm actually a very auditory learner type person, so I've been pretty particular about trying to make sure the music feels like it works within the game's general feeling.

 

[Nej_Aldrig]

Would really like if there was more active spells to use in dungeons, hope that makes it into the final game.

Have to call this a very relaxing smooth game thus far.

Do really wish you could more easily use keyboard commands for the girls, very often I find I want to just press say "R" for go rest, "C" for character sheet, and "ESC" for...well....shutting windows and menus.

Balance wise - is there actually any downside to just set them to go together all the time?

 

[Rosen King]

Balance wise - is there actually any downside to just set them to go together all the time?

Aside from taking longer to explore the dungeon, it's something the dev is working on trying to balance. There are a few curses like Vainglory and Pheromones and Sabotage that can present problems when they knights are grouped together, as well as one new trap in the latest update that has a sort of AoE effect.

 

[NRFB]

Would really like if there was more active spells to use in dungeons, hope that makes it into the final game.

I understand why people would want this but I've actually thus far intentionally thrown out any active spell effect ideas if they were dungeon-centric and couldn't be added to scry. The intention here was to not have players have to keep track of a bunch of cooldowns (and not have to display those cooldowns as well). Same reason why I haven't had any active abilities on the knights themselves. Although having everything be a passive effect is somewhat restricting in a design sense, which I'm less crazy about, so I dunno.

Do really wish you could more easily use keyboard commands for the girls, very often I find I want to just press say "R" for go rest, "C" for character sheet, and "ESC" for...well....shutting windows and menus.

You'd still have to click on the knight you'd want to order once to get them selected, but honestly yeah this doesn't sound too bad. With the default keybinds you have wasd for camera movement, 1 2 3 for the knights, and tab for the current turn, then it makes some sense for convenience to put a bunch of shortcuts around that area. I'm liking the idea. Something like:
T: Set Destination
E: Explore
R: Rest
F: Follow
Z: Stay there
C: Character Sheet
I guess it would also probably be good to have Shift+E/R/Z as the defaults to set all of them to do that thing at once too.
Although you'd still have the other menu options like setting an ally to fight/leave or enter the witch's den, but those are more one off.
Also I should probably surface the information about click and hold allowing for quick set destination/follow in the tutorial, now that I'm thinking about it.

Balance wise - is there actually any downside to just set them to go together all the time?

Not presently, but soon.

 

[Rosen King]

I understand why people would want this but I've actually thus far intentionally thrown out any active spell effect ideas if they couldn't be added to scry. The intention here was to not have players have to keep track of a bunch of cooldowns (and not have to display those cooldowns as well). Same reason why I haven't had any active abilities on the knights themselves. Although having everything be a passive effect is somewhat restricting in a design sense, which I'm less crazy about, so I dunno.

To be honest, my biggest issue (in any game where it's relevant) isn't that I have too many cooldowns to keep track of, but that it's something you *need* to keep track of in the first place. Ideally, I think cooldowns should only be used to prevent spamming something, rather than being something you feel the need to use every time it's available or you risk "wasting" the time you could have spent charging the next cast. Just one spell like that is too many, IMO. That's why I prefer an MP system, even if it acts as little more than a shared cooldown between skills.

I'm not sure if it'd work in this game, but one thing I always wished was more present in other games that tend to have you "chasing cooldowns" is a sort of "overflow" system where you can store multiple charges of a skill and time spent not using the one that you have available is spent charging up the next cast. This is especially problematic in pseudo-MMORPG games where choosing not to use your skill immediately will reduce your "DPS", but the skill has other effects that are best used in certain situations. Those games *really* need to implement a way to "sit on your skills" without effectively crippling yourself.

But really, another solution is just to have skills that are highly situational and have no reason to be spammed, eliminating the need to watch their cooldown and use it as soon as you can. In that case the cooldown is only a restriction on how quickly you can risk getting into that situation. Like, "Oh, my character is asleep again already, I can't cast the spell to wake her up now. Oh well."

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No.

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Ah, looks like we have our second source of curses for those who don't pick skills at the end of a dungeon floor. The post would've been phrased differently if it was just a new UI for the existing corruption meter.

 

[WellIGuess]

Glad to see the game is moving along. The addition of the pseudo-gallery section in the research notes in particular, as many people had suggested, is a great touch given the current relative paucity of content. But I understand, you gotta build the framework before you can add content around it. Looking forward to the future!

 

[raska42]

For curses, does min/maxing them (currently) do anything other than open up a few more chat options? A quick search and skim of the last couple pages of the thread didn't provide an answer.

 

[NRFB]

No.

Of course, the futa curse deserves better. (I'm still not sure what it should do gameplay wise so it's not a thing yet)

Ah, looks like we have our second source of curses for those who don't pick skills at the end of a dungeon floor.

Nah.

For curses, does min/maxing them (currently) do anything other than open up a few more chat options? A quick search and skim of the last couple pages of the thread didn't provide an answer.

I believe it was answered within the last couple of pages, but maybe you were just looking for it with the wrong name or something.
Currently that's all it does, yes. Soon there will be more.

 

[Rosen King]

Of course, the futa curse deserves better. (I'm still not sure what it should do gameplay wise so it's not a thing yet)

*Raises fist into the air* There can be only one dick, and it shall be mine! ...Err, I mean it shall have been mine from the start. I'm not saying I want someone else's dick. And there shall be zero dick if I'm playing as a female.

For real though, if you do add something like a futa curse to the game you might want to think about adding a content filter as well. Especially if it's something so unessential to the game that its existence is dictated by whether or not you can find a mechanic for it.

Edit: Actually, thinking about the things that typically get content filters, it might already be warranted with the spider content. I know some people have severe enough arachnophobia that it prevents them from playing certain games, and while some of them are fine with humanoid spider women, I think they'd still be extremely bothered by the trap where the knights are caught in spider webs and then have spiders crawl onto them and inject them with venom... *Especially* if that ends up getting artwork.

Nah.

Then what could that bar possibly mea--

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Oh. (For those who can't see because of the size, there are what appear to be three unfilled dots under the curse.)

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Ah, clearly this spell regenerates your alien fetus meter.

 

[icollectsouls]

Of course, the futa curse deserves better. (I'm still not sure what it should do gameplay wise so it's not a thing yet)

Well, if there's plans to make grouping the girls together a less viable strategy, you could make it so that any girl with the curse is more likely to ignore orders and specifically follow other girls, as well as some general "heightened lust" stuff... then have that lead to lewd scenarios involving the futa curse?
Of course, as much as I'd personally love some futa content, I'm not sure a (semi-permanent) change like that to the main girls works as well? Another one of those things that could potentially inflate dev time because if the futa curse actually had an effect on the ero-content, that'd mean it'd require a ton of individual scenes depending on who has the curse, who doesn't have the curse, if both have the curse, etc... at least if "done right." Stuff like Futa-Lucette x Raine "should" be a different scene than Lucette x Futa-Raine or Futa-Lucette x Futa-Raine, but I feel like that's going way too in-depth for a game condition not everyone is going to have, or even want to go out of their way to get. Hell, it'd get even worse for when threesomes get "properly" implemented, and if the futa stuff is also "properly" implemted as well, then you'd end up with different scenes for Futa-Lucy x Elli x Raine and Futa-Lucy x Futa-Elli x Raine or even just all three girls futa. (Along with any other potential combinations there, or even other possible scenes like if a futa-knight gets attacked by an imp and stuff happens.)

 

[NRFB]

*Raises fist into the air* There can be only one dick, and it shall be mine! ...Err, I mean it shall have been mine from the start. I'm not saying I want someone else's dick. And there shall be zero dick if I'm playing as a female.

For real though, if you do add something like a futa curse to the game you might want to think about adding a content filter as well. Especially if it's something so unessential to the game that its existence is dictated by whether or not you can find a mechanic for it.

I won't have futa curse added to the game before the ability to remove curses is a thing.

Edit: Actually, thinking about the things that typically get content filters, it might already be warranted with the spider content. I know some people have severe enough arachnophobia that it prevents them from playing certain games, and while some of them are fine with humanoid spider women, I think they'd still be extremely bothered by the trap where the knights are caught in spider webs and then have spiders crawl onto them and inject them with venom... *Especially* if that ends up getting artwork.

See, I get this and I understand why it's valid but at the same time I don't quite like the idea. For what it's worth I don't have any plans to add art for the spider room.

On the one hand it would be pretty easy to set up content toggles. I would just have to be more thorough with adding tags to the tagging system already present in the game's data files. It does however open up the problem of balance and cutting down on already limited content. Sure, it's fine to just say "okay you can turn off spider room" and have one trap not spawn, but where is the line? What if one of those really weird militantly anti-ntr people decides that all the knights are love interests and therefore anything sexual that happens in the dungeon is ntr and must be turned off. Then there's almost no threats left to give that person (or at least the balance of threats that can be given is completely different). I'm sure that's an extreme case that probably wouldn't happen in reality, but it's part of why I'm more thinking of content toggling as a "maybe in the future???" type of deal.

Even if you solve the balance issues (or just say "screw it, if you toggle off content you have to accept the balance being worse") I still kind of dislike it for kind of nebulous artistic reasons, but I don't feel like I can really explain those very well.

Of course, as much as I'd personally love some futa content, I'm not sure a (semi-permanent) change like that to the main girls works as well? Another one of those things that could potentially inflate dev time because if the futa curse actually had an effect on the ero-content, that'd mean it'd require a ton of individual scenes depending on who has the curse, who doesn't have the curse, if both have the curse, etc... at least if "done right." Stuff like Futa-Lucette x Raine "should" be a different scene than Lucette x Futa-Raine or Futa-Lucette x Futa-Raine, but I feel like that's going way too in-depth for a game condition not everyone is going to have, or even want to go out of their way to get. Hell, it'd get even worse for when threesomes get "properly" implemented, and if the futa stuff is also "properly" implemted as well, then you'd end up with different scenes for Futa-Lucy x Elli x Raine and Futa-Lucy x Futa-Elli x Raine or even just all three girls futa. (Along with any other potential combinations there, or even other possible scenes like if a futa-knight gets attacked by an imp and stuff happens.)

Bloat is a valid concern, but at the same time with the type of person I am and my personal tastes, I feel like I can't NOT write futa eventually when this kind of story setup allows for it so perfectly. Other transformation types of content may be more iffy, but you won't be able to keep me from doing at least SOME girl pp stuff (eventually, that is).

 

[Rosen King]

I won't have futa curse added to the game before the ability to remove curses is a thing.

Being able to remove the penis that a woman grew doesn't really address the severe squick of her having grown one in the first place, though. Going back to the arachnophobia example, it'd be like putting a spider on someone's arm and saying, "Haha, don't worry, it's not gonna bite you," and then taking it off. Or... something. I dunno, I don't have arachnophobia.

but where is the line? What if one of those really weird militantly anti-ntr people decides that all the knights are love interests and therefore anything sexual that happens in the dungeon is ntr and must be turned off. Then there's almost no threats left to give that person (or at least the balance of threats that can be given is completely different).

Well, that's why I specifically noted "particularly if the futa thing as being an unessential part of the game". Obviously things that are core to the game can't be blacklisted even if they would be in other games, like pseudo-cuckoldry, non-consent, and mind control. At that point the best advice is to just avoid the game. The same might be said if, say, the drider was a character in the story. But if there's just gonna be a few threats that spray pee on the knights or something, that should definitely be toggle-able.

Edit: Oh, apparently there's an unannounced (here) bugfix update out.

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[WellIGuess]

I won't have futa curse added to the game before the ability to remove curses is a thing.

Thank you very much.