VN Ren'Py Halfway House [Ep.11 - Bonus 7-9] [Az]

[Ilhares]

Are these devs doing this full time or is this in addition to a regular job? The latter is really the only way I can explain away long development times but if it's full time, they should be quicker with updates IMO.

I am not sure, but it's also entirely possible they have older hardware (I have no memory of it discussed). A little 2-4 core PC with an older GPU won't produce nearly as well as a 24-core system with a 3090.

 

[Hahn1900]

Are these devs doing this full time or is this in addition to a regular job? The latter is really the only way I can explain away long development times but if it's full time, they should be quicker with updates IMO.

Its a single DEV who was lying about doing this development fulltime after reaching a goal at patreon, after reaching that goal the development gotten VERY slow. And it was obvious that he lied about doing it fulltime. That was more than 2 years ago. Than he had multiple excuses why a update was delayed, than he was burned out... or said so... which is kinda odd, cause getting a burn out without really hard work is kinda strange.

And so on and on.

Nearly every excuse he had the last overall 2 years were bullshit. He is just... lazy. Or has a overall bad workethic. Choose your poison. At least he paused billing here and there for a month. But not the entire time, which he should have done.

The last update came out not even half done and was rediculous short for the time he put in it... nearly 10 month for not even 1000 renders without any progress for the relationships or story at all and ended "in between"... would be funny if it wasnt so sad... and now he is calling the next update "episode 10" which in fact will be just another part of episode 9.

There is only one reason why this game is not abondoned yet, cause he is still making a lot of money without much work it... and i guess it will stay this way a while... but you can be DAMN sure about it, that this game will NEVER be finished in a proper way... with time more patrons will cancel their membership like i did a while ago, and than he will pull the plug eventually in maybe 2 years or so. Until than we will get maybe 1 update a year, with an amount of content other devs do in less than 3 months.

doesnt change the fact that i love the game though... but yeah... we are just very unlucky with this DEV on that one. Shame... Az has really some talent making this VN... but yeah... its a dead end road. This DEV is the definition of unreliable.

 

[Deleted member 3917737]

There was an update about 10 or so days ago to his Patreon about finishing the club part of E10. Now working on the home part of E10

Hmm, sounds... nvm. I would probably get attacked if I said what I wanted to say.

A little 2-4 core PC with an older GPU won't produce nearly as well as a 24-core system with a 3090.

This Dev shouldn't have anything old by this point.

Its a single DEV who was lying

Nearly every excuse he had the last overall 2 years were bullshit. He is just... lazy. Or has a overall bad workethic. Choose your poison. At least he paused billing here and there for a month. But not the entire time, which he should have done.

The last update came out not even half done and was rediculous short for the time he put in it... nearly 10 month for not even 1000 renders without any progress for the relationships or story at all and ended "in between"... would be funny if it wasnt so sad... and now he is calling the next update "episode 10" which in fact will be just another part of episode 9.

There is only one reason why this game is not abondoned yet, cause he is still making a lot of money without much work it... and i guess it will stay this way a while... but you can be DAMN sure about it, that this game will NEVER be finished in a proper way... with time more patrons will cancel their membership like i did a while ago, and than he will pull the plug eventually in maybe 2 years or so. Until than we will get maybe 1 update a year, with an amount of content other devs do in less than 3 months.

This DEV is the definition of unreliable.

If that's so, you shouldn't waste your time with this game (I'm not) I enjoyed it but if the Dev really is a liar, milker, whatever ze fuck, I don't want to be here lol.

 

[Carl206]

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Anyway, here's Liz on a Late Night talk show. Why? Again, I dunno... I watch alot of female celebrity's talk show interviews on Youtube. I guess I do it to study the ladies sitting posture, mannerism, expression, fashion and all that jazz... what can I say, I'm a dork.
The setup is, Liz got invited to a talk show for some reason. I guess she made the news by foiling a robbery or something with he MMA shenanigans... anyway, Ash then challenged her to do something wholly unacceptable while on air or something... I dunno, something along those lines.

As for the game that everyone is actually waiting for. It's going. Slow going but it's going... just released another teaser along with this side Liz thing.

Anyhoo, Enjoy.
Az.

 

[DIKs34]

And that is how it starts: At first, you're all in on a dev, feel like you know the guy/gal/whatever, and support him/her no matter what. Second: They stop posting for a while, and make empty promises. Third: You realize they're bull-shitting you for your hard earned euros, so you stop supporting them. Fourth: You stop trusting most devs, and begin to see the same pattern of bullshit over, and over, and over again.

That's my biggest problem with Patreon. Not saying that this particular dev is like that, but it's a recipe to encourage "laziness". Artists aren't paid for their end product, they are paid for creating them, without real deadlines.

At the beginning, you bust your ass to give the best quality, the fastest possible. You create multiple routes, add new girls, it's fun. After that, the next updates take a month or 2 longer because you had some bad luck, but you realize you just made double the $ for taking more time than usual. I don't know many human being who wouldn't start making these extra months a regular things.

Just for exemple, if I understand Patreon correctly, someone like DrPinkCake have 13k patrons, he's making $28K - $89K per months (Idk if Grapheon is a reliable source?). Last real chapter of BaD (Episode 8) was a year ago. It means that Patrons have paid between 336k and 1million to date for Episode 9, and the release date isn't even published.

That's why I think that something like Kickstarter would be much more fitting. You calculate the time, effort, cost, etc.. of your next episode and ask for that, period. People can pledge over the limit, but when you have reach that number, you should be good to deliver. There would be no benefits for devs to push back a month VS Patreon where someone like DPC could (and I say COULD, not that he is doing it) easily push back a month or 2 before releasing and already finished product just so he can take a break. An extra 30 to 90k$ to take a break, without nobody knowing, is really enticing.

 

[ggregger33]

That's my biggest problem with Patreon. Not saying that this particular dev is like that, but it's a recipe to encourage "laziness". Artists aren't paid for their end product, they are paid for creating them, without real deadlines.

At the beginning, you bust your ass to give the best quality, the fastest possible. You create multiple routes, add new girls, it's fun. After that, the next updates take a month or 2 longer because you had some bad luck, but you realize you just made double the $ for taking more time than usual. I don't know many human being who wouldn't start making these extra months a regular things.

Just for exemple, if I understand Patreon correctly, someone like DrPinkCake have 13k patrons, he's making $28K - $89K per months (Idk if Grapheon is a reliable source?). Last real chapter of BaD (Episode 8) was a year ago. It means that Patrons have paid between 336k and 1million to date for Episode 9, and the release date isn't even published.

That's why I think that something like Kickstarter would be much more fitting. You calculate the time, effort, cost, etc.. of your next episode and ask for that, period. People can pledge over the limit, but when you have reach that number, you should be good to deliver. There would be no benefits for devs to push back a month VS Patreon where someone like DPC could (and I say COULD, not that he is doing it) easily push back a month or 2 before releasing and already finished product just so he can take a break. An extra 30 to 90k$ to take a break, without nobody knowing, is really enticing.

Well I for one love BaD but after 6 months stop supporting him. He was very clear and upfront on patreon that his updates would come out slowly and he even stated he understood if you withdrew support. I have and am supporting other Devs and will for a little while and then I cut it off. I'm not made of $$ but do like to support as I can. That's just me though I do not feel I have been taken advantage of because I don't let it happen. I even support this game for 3 months and then cut it off. When I feel a dev has done a good job with an update or 2 I support for a few months. Just a thought for some people out there.

 

[Lexie lecoeur]

I am not sure, but it's also entirely possible they have older hardware (I have no memory of it discussed). A little 2-4 core PC with an older GPU won't produce nearly as well as a 24-core system with a 3090.

Cores are useless for rendering. Everything goes through the Cuda core of the GPU.
I have two RTX3090 and rendering for JASON takes me between 10 and 30 minutes depending on the scene.
You multiply by 600 (average number of renders per update) and you add the time to create the scenes and you have the astronomical amount of time it takes to create just the renders. Add the dialogues, the code, the music and it's immediately very time consuming.

Les coeurs ne servent à rien pour les rendus. Tout passe par les Cuda core des GPU.
Perso j'ai deux RTX3090 et faire un rendu pour JASON me prend entre 10 et 30 minutes suivant la scène.
Vous multipliez par 600 (nombre de rendu en moyenne par update) et vous ajoutez le temps de créer les scènes et vous avez la quantité astronomique du temps qu'il faut pour créer juste les rendus. Ajouter les dialogues, le code, la musique et c'est tout de suite très chronophage.

 

[Rintal]

Cores are useless for rendering. Everything goes through the Cuda core of the GPU.
I have two RTX3090 and rendering for JASON takes me between 10 and 30 minutes depending on the scene.
You multiply by 600 (average number of renders per update) and you add the time to create the scenes and you have the astronomical amount of time it takes to create just the renders. Add the dialogues, the code, the music and it's immediately very time consuming.

10-30 minutes is quite a lot for such hardware. Maybe you're just cranking up the quality to the max and not trying to optimize the render settings. But even so, it takes about 8-10 days of rendering. Quite sane time for the background process.

For everything else, you can reuse scene settings, poses, and even finished renders. All this, in sum, saves a lot of time. By the way, I often see, in other games too many renders for not the most important scenes and too few for the important ones. So, this moment can also be optimized.

All in all, I still think two months is more than enough time to produce an update for most games. Even taking into account not full-time involvement in the process. If this is a full-time job, with a good GDD a month should be enough. You can also work with a team...

 

[Lexie lecoeur]

10-30 minutes is quite a lot for such hardware. Maybe you're just cranking up the quality to the max and not trying to optimize the render settings. But even so, it takes about 8-10 days of rendering. Quite sane time for the background process.

For everything else, you can reuse scene settings, poses, and even finished renders. All this, in sum, saves a lot of time. By the way, I often see, in other games too many renders for not the most important scenes and too few for the important ones. So, this moment can also be optimized.

All in all, I still think two months is more than enough time to produce an update for most games. Even taking into account not full-time involvement in the process. If this is a full-time job, with a good GDD a month should be enough. You can also work with a team...

Have you ever made a game?

Your reasoning is completely wrong! Renderings are not made in background processing. You have to constantly check the quality of the renderings and it is done one by one.
2 months for an update ? Ok, but what is its quality ? How much playing time ?
I work on my game during the weekend, about 20 hours.
During the week, it's 2 hours in the evening on average.
That's 30 hours a week just for rendering. And believe me, I can't release an update every three months.

I've seen what happens with games where updates are every month or two. They sting the eyes!
As for the quality of my renders, you can see for yourself that I don't try to make things just passable. I suffered from the 95's graphics, it's not to go back there.

PS: when you don't know, you don't give your opinion as if you were an expert, especially to say bullshit.



Tu as déjà fait un jeu ?

Ton raisonnement est complètement faux ! Les rendus ne sont pas faits en traitement de fond. Il faut contrôler en permanence la qualité du rendu et ça se fait un par un.
2 mois pour un update ? Ok, mais quel est sa qualité ? Combien de temps de jeu ?

Moi, je travaille sur mon jeu le week-end, environ 20 h.
En semaine, ce sont 2 h le soir en moyenne.
Ce qui fait 30 h par semaine juste pour les rendus. Et crois moi, je ne peux pas sortir d'update tous les trois mois.

J'ai vu ce que ca donnait des jeux ou les updates sont tous les mois, voir deux mois. Ils piquent les yeux !
Quant à la qualité de mes rendus, constate par toi-même que je ne cherche pas à faire des choses juste passables. J'ai souffert des graphismes des années 95 ce n'est pas pour y retourner.

PS: quand on ne sait pas, on ne donne pas son avis comme si on était un expert, surtout pour dire des conneries.

 

[Son of Durin]

10-30 minutes is quite a lot for such hardware. Maybe you're just cranking up the quality to the max and not trying to optimize the render settings. But even so, it takes about 8-10 days of rendering. Quite sane time for the background process.

For everything else, you can reuse scene settings, poses, and even finished renders. All this, in sum, saves a lot of time. By the way, I often see, in other games too many renders for not the most important scenes and too few for the important ones. So, this moment can also be optimized.

All in all, I still think two months is more than enough time to produce an update for most games. Even taking into account not full-time involvement in the process. If this is a full-time job, with a good GDD a month should be enough. You can also work with a team...

You're a quantity over quality type, I take it. Bless your heart!

 

[Rintal]

Have you ever made a game?

Your reasoning is completely wrong! Renderings are not made in background processing. You have to constantly check the quality of the renderings and it is done one by one.
2 months for an update ? Ok, but what is its quality ? How much playing time ?
I work on my game during the weekend, about 20 hours.
During the week, it's 2 hours in the evening on average.
That's 30 hours a week just for rendering. And believe me, I can't release an update every three months.

I've seen what happens with games where updates are every month or two. They sting the eyes!
As for the quality of my renders, you can see for yourself that I don't try to make things just passable. I suffered from the 95's graphics, it's not to go back there.

PS: when you don't know, you don't give your opinion as if you were an expert, especially to say bullshit.

Well, personally, I didn't make games. But I worked for a small game company that made games. And I know a little about 3D.
If you have to constantly check renders, this is due to lack of experience. You can take an environment in which some action takes place, make a test render of this environment and understand what settings you need. Then just put all the frames in this environment for processing and go drink tea.

In any case, I'm not talking about making less content. I'm talking about streamlining the development process so that you don't spend a lot of time on something that no one notices or cares about. If you are serious about game development, then sooner or later you will come to ways of optimizing work, compiling a GDD, etc. Well... or you will overpolish every render to the end, instead of focusing on key scenes and releasing an update every half a year.

 

[ggregger33]

Well, personally, I didn't make games. But I worked for a small game company that made games. And I know a little about 3D.
If you have to constantly check renders, this is due to lack of experience. You can take an environment in which some action takes place, make a test render of this environment and understand what settings you need. Then just put all the frames in this environment for processing and go drink tea.

In any case, I'm not talking about making less content. I'm talking about streamlining the development process so that you don't spend a lot of time on something that no one notices or cares about. If you are serious about game development, then sooner or later you will come to ways of optimizing work, compiling a GDD, etc. Well... or you will overpolish every render to the end, instead of focusing on key scenes and releasing an update every half a year.

Sound to me like you are volunteering your vast knowledge and person time to help get these renders done faster and at the same quality. I also assume your doing it at no cost because most Dev's don't get the financial support to pay for someone like you to do it for them. Hay Dev sounds like a win win to me.

 

[Rintal]

Sound to me like you are volunteering your vast knowledge and person time to help get these renders done faster and at the same quality. I also assume your doing it at no cost because most Dev's don't get the financial support to pay for someone like you to do it for them. Hay Dev sounds like a win win to me.

LOL! I am not a volunteer type at all and haven't done any renders for adult games.

 

[ggregger33]

LOL! I am not a volunteer type at all and haven't done any renders for adult games.

Well like my father use to say god rest his sole. "If you not part of the solution then your part of the problem." So sit down and be quite and let the adults work.

 

[charlesrich]

It is taking everything I have inside of me not to grammar Nazi the bejesus out of the previous post.

 

[Ilhares]

It is taking everything I have inside of me not to gramma Nazi the bejesus out of the previous post.

I've taken to calling myself a grammar fascist in recent years. I'm not flawless, but I do try to keep it ordered and sensible. There's a right way to do it, and that's all we amongst the Grammar Gestapo really want: people doing it the right way, because there is a clear and correct way, and that boy managed to get it wrong so many times. I personally prefer fascist over Nazi because I don't like to even passively suggest the Nazis were doing anything right.

 

[ggregger33]

It is taking everything I have inside of me not to grammar Nazi the bejesus out of the previous post.

Glad ya like it... us cunrey folk no type so good. Butt did I gett my points accross ta ya?

 

[Rintal]

Well like my father use to say god rest his sole. "If you not part of the solution then your part of the problem." So sit down and be quite and let the adults work.

Bro... Are you on drugs or rambling some nonsense it's just your hobby?

 

[Anon E]

Cores are useless for rendering. Everything goes through the Cuda core of the GPU.
I have two RTX3090 and rendering for JASON takes me between 10 and 30 minutes depending on the scene.
You multiply by 600 (average number of renders per update) and you add the time to create the scenes and you have the astronomical amount of time it takes to create just the renders. Add the dialogues, the code, the music and it's immediately very time consuming.

Wouldn't workstation gpus be much better for rendering than gaming-centered gpus?

 

[Ilhares]

Wouldn't workstation gpus be much better for rendering than gaming-centered gpus?

In terms of VRAM, almost always, but the cost v. performance ratio usually skews heavily towards the gamer demographic.