Asia Argento

The Golden Dragon Princess
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Apr 14, 2020
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What a time we live in where people pay to beta test. :D Not that I wouldn't. :p
under normal circumstances I would agree, but this game has at least 15 hours worth of content and a few completed character stories... so I guess its up to each person to determine value.
 

Deleted member 929426

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2018
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What a time we live in where people pay to beta test. :D Not that I wouldn't. :p
It actually takes me back to the old days where there was something called a "Closed Beta" where you were only allowed to participate by special invitation, and that could include a price. I've even been involved in some Alphas and pre-Alphas that were the same way.
Too many people confuse Alphas and Betas with full releases, and I have to admit that some of the blame falls on those developers who release them as such.
 
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UnDeaD_CyBorG

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2018
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Oh, yes, absolutely, I've been in plenty of those. I've been a game designer, even.
I can see the fascination of breaking unknown ground, as it were; managed to get my nickname into a game or two.
Still, a lot of people seem to feel rather entitled then, while being poor testers. Especially if they paid for the privilege.
Though I've found that's less of an issue if you allow beta access for people who preordered the final game.
 

ankhtar

Active Member
Jan 24, 2020
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Y'all making me feel old now. I'm not the staunchest supporter of the "early access" model (though I understand the benefits) so it still bums me out a little that Kids These Days® will probably never know what the original beta test was like.
 

Runey

Harem Hotel
Game Developer
May 17, 2018
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Y'all making me feel old now. I'm not the staunchest supporter of the "early access" model (though I understand the benefits) so it still bums me out a little that Kids These Days® will probably never know what the original beta test was like.
It's a good thing, back then there wasn't much demand for games so people had to pay players to play a broken game, now gaming is so popular that demand has switched places with supply and now people will pay a lot of money to play something before others get it. You witnessed the birth of an industry, and now it's flourishing :)
 

Evil13

Engaged Member
Jun 4, 2019
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Y'all making me feel old now. I'm not the staunchest supporter of the "early access" model (though I understand the benefits) so it still bums me out a little that Kids These Days® will probably never know what the original beta test was like.
Yeah, but how many games got released when we were younger that ended up being completely unplayable because they were so broken? Be it through rushed production or a lack of QC, there were quite a few that should never have been sent out in that state.

As it is now, we're seeing a new trend, where developers have to listen to the testers, because they know if they release a broken product, they won't last too long.
 

Havik79

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2019
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HA, back then it was at least about testing, now its about fucking over people for greed like 1 year epic exclusives.
 

Havik79

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2019
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Yeah, but how many games got released when we were younger that ended up being completely unplayable because they were so broken? Be it through rushed production or a lack of QC, there were quite a few that should never have been sent out in that state.

As it is now, we're seeing a new trend, where developers have to listen to the testers, because they know if they release a broken product, they won't last too long.
Wait what, have you been hiding somewhere, doesn't the newest madden have the same bugs from like 4 years ago, or how about the backwards flying dragons in Skyrim, or just everything with fallout76.
 

c3p0

Forum Fanatic
Respected User
Nov 20, 2017
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I don't know. A broken game is just a broken game. In the past you couldn't patch a game when it was released anymore for good or worse. Today games are released who are broken an some studio doesn't do a shit about it.
I do think it is not about then and now, but about work ethics.

If the console or PC would be as broken as some games on day 1 most of us would give it back or at least would demand a substitute.

And exclusives deals been there since a long time and will always be there. On consoles and PCs only that are more companies out there that play this type of game. At least most of them are "only" time exclusives at least PC games.
And then on top of this comes the DLC "problematic". I don't mean a decent DLC in a addon size, but the small things like fancy cloths, sword, whatever.
 

Havik79

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2019
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It's not the same dude, consoles need exclusive games, like Rachet and Clank for Sony, but something like, the other worlds, being exclusive to epic for a year is just fucking people over for money.

And this is offtopic.
 

Evil13

Engaged Member
Jun 4, 2019
3,716
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Wait what, have you been hiding somewhere, doesn't the newest madden have the same bugs from like 4 years ago, or how about the backwards flying dragons in Skyrim, or just everything with fallout76.
More like games like Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness or Superman 64, ones that couldn't be patched upon release.
 

ankhtar

Active Member
Jan 24, 2020
764
1,874
It's a good thing, back then there wasn't much demand for games so people had to pay players to play a broken game, now gaming is so popular that demand has switched places with supply and now people will pay a lot of money to play something before others get it. You witnessed the birth of an industry, and now it's flourishing
I suppose it's still a business and it had to adapt to the times like everything else. Personally I don't understand the appeal to be the first to rush in and play something slightly earlier than the masses, or the fact game companies pay (or give free copies) these select few"influencers" to build up hype for their game(s) hoping to score more sales in a week or two. It actually irritates me a little that this cheeky marketing strategy works, but in the end I may just be an angry old coot who's desperately trying to resist that terrifying and unpredictable "change". I may also be a little bit low-key jealous, but obviously I'll never admit it.
 

TheDevian

Svengali Productions
Game Developer
Mar 8, 2018
14,422
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It's a good thing, back then there wasn't much demand for games so people had to pay players to play a broken game, now gaming is so popular that demand has switched places with supply and now people will pay a lot of money to play something before others get it. You witnessed the birth of an industry, and now it's flourishing :)
On the other hand, you also get a different level of help when you hire a professional over letting any rando doing too. That said, at least the people who support the game care about it enough to at least do their best because they want the game to do well.
 

Havik79

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2019
6,769
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Fuck me, reading the new info for beta 2, being super excited, and right as I am about to go to bed.
 
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SpikyHair

Member
Nov 13, 2019
363
662
It's a good thing,
To be honest... I'm not so sure I could agree with this the way things stand right now.

"Early access" or whatever you want to call it is, ultimately, a tool. It can be used to positive effect, or, as it's unfortunate tendency to see in game industry nowadays, as a means of "leveraging" cash-flow without having to put in the effort to really make a good game.
back then there wasn't much demand for games so people had to pay players to play a broken game,
To be honest, QA has always been seen by the upper management as largely pointless "money sink." Mostly because people in those positions either have no idea what QA really adds to the product, or (rightfully or not) think it ultimately does not matter whether or not something works flawlessly and well, as long as those affected by issues are small enough of a percentage of the customer base.

Kind of like IT department in larger organizations. When they can do their work well, you don't really notice the effects of it. What you do notice is when you keep cutting down the budget until things start falling apart, and suddenly that works turns extremely critical.

Then gets outsourced to some third-party "provider" from an underdeveloped country (because wages), and things are hardly better, but that's another story.
now gaming is so popular that demand has switched places with supply and now people will pay a lot of money to play something before others get it. You witnessed the birth of an industry, and now it's flourishing :)
It's more that gaming became an affordable mainstream hobby, so the percentage of "I can't wait and this advert looks so awesome and who cares if it's from a publisher that keeps releasing shiny turds LOOK AT THE GRAPHICS!" customers (basically teens and easily impressionable young adults) gets refreshed so often even companies like EA, rightfully loathed by both the industry and gamers alike, still keep in business and do pretty darn toot well, to boot.

It doesn't help that the constant stream of "we'll fix it post-release" titles is constantly increasing the collective acceptance of steady decrease in quality (see above "young impressionable self-replacing audience" comment), and I won't even go into the totally awesome paradigm the industry realized in cutting out parts of originally planned content to sell it as separate DLCs and MTS.

For the record, even back before the internet companies could, and did, patch their games. There's a reason lots of gaming magazines used to come with floppies (and later CDs) ;)
On the other hand, you also get a different level of help when you hire a professional over letting any rando doing too.
Most people really do not appreciate how technical "quality assurance" job is.

It's not "playing the game," and you do need a very specific skillset (and frankly, personality) to be really good at it.
OMG, HA, I haven't seen that in years.
Runey's such a hipster he puts in HH memes from back before memes were a thing ;)
 

Runey

Harem Hotel
Game Developer
May 17, 2018
3,965
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To be honest... I'm not so sure I could agree with this the way things stand right now.

"Early access" or whatever you want to call it is, ultimately, a tool. It can be used to positive effect, or, as it's unfortunate tendency to see in game industry nowadays, as a means of "leveraging" cash-flow without having to put in the effort to really make a good game.

To be honest, QA has always been seen by the upper management as largely pointless "money sink." Mostly because people in those positions either have no idea what QA really adds to the product, or (rightfully or not) think it ultimately does not matter whether or not something works flawlessly and well, as long as those affected by issues are small enough of a percentage of the customer base.
What you're describing is a byproduct of rampant capitalism, early access in and of itself is a good thing. It helps the devs find bugs for a polished release, and it supports the devs during the development phase so it may be finished. As an example, I wouldn't be able to finish HH if no one supported it during its development. I started with $0 and a computer. It is only those greedy few who run companies that use whatever they can to make an extra dollar. So many games these days, including mine, would never see the light of day without early access supporters.
 
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SpikyHair

Member
Nov 13, 2019
363
662
early access in and of itself is a good thing
Myeah, I probably should've specified I meant what I said within the scope of "established business" developers.

No argument EA and its ilk was crucial in expanding market access to tiny developers, regardless of the frequent abuse of the process.

And yes, it would've been nice if our laws kept up with tech progress better. Wouldn't mind seeing legally binding obligations codified to require things like Steam's EA to either provide a decently developed result, or force developers that decide to drop the project to publish their code as open source.

I get that "decently developed result" is not exactly a legal term, and it would require a lot of thought and care to define what exactly it should be, but the threat (well... assuming it'd get actually enforced, not treated like, say, GDPR violations, heh) of open-sourcing a failed project alone should prevent at least the most glaring abuse of EA that all too often happens nowadays. Especially if there was also a codified way for customers who feel screwed over by whatever "final version" gets released (especially if the roadmap or prior advertisement of it was blatantly different) to have easier time at launching class action suit to force open-sourcing the code.

That way, even if the developer does a number on people who pay, the "community" itself can salvage some of it (if not actually finish the damn game in the first place). As things are right now, Steam sure loves to keep listing things that are daylight rip-offs. Even after the development studio ends up long dissolved, and even when there's no third-party publisher.

Blatant cash grab, but Holy GabeN something something.
 
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