TheDevian

Svengali Productions
Game Developer
Mar 8, 2018
15,048
35,435
I have to agree with you, I personally hated the entire "Stoneface" plot twist it was very out of place if anything. Sort of a forced contrived layer over what could have been more of a "papa cuck" situation but instead ended up as a nonsensical mafia "put baby in the corner" twist. I honestly found myself just skimming through Ash's more recent story for more of the same. The story is kinda convoluted in areas that would of been better off left a bit more simplistic. I find the general shift a bit frustrating tbh especially Ash's story as "oh wasn't there got taken here, OH wasn't there got taken here~" on repeat. I'm not usually so critical of these types of VNs but theres multiple points that just seem forced and out of place. Like the dungeon bit where you gotta convince the dude "love is the better way to train slaves" just totally out of place if you'd been treating her as a person up till then. Like it defeated the purpose of the entire "you should treat elves as people" argument they'd been pushing. I think this has some potential but most the plotholes are glaring and or it writes itself into corners only for unrewarding "ass pull" jumps. totally not trying to shit on the authors work either if anything id hope criticism can help them avoid similar issues going forward. The F&E plot specifically was a significant step down in quality it took me from a borderline 4, down to a 2/5 and while my opinion isn't all that important I'm sure theres likely others that feel similar. Especially when it's like "I'll talk to moon about making defenses" and then doesn't let you do anything about your defenses before something happens. OR the "unregistered elves in the back" I CLEARLY HAD TO PAY FOR THEM SO WTF DO YOU MEAN UNREGISTERED? THEY JUST DONT "WORK" IN THE HOTEL. That alone was the dumbest argument imaginable. "oh no don't tell on them I'll go with you" what nonsense. Honestly from the moment you meet their cuck dean father the story just takes a huge obnoxious step down. (sorry sort of had to rant there). If anything I was hoping the white hair chick would end up being a half elf or something with "snipped ears" who would become some sort of support for the MC. Sadly that's not where it went at all, would have been far more interesting as opposed to where it went.
Still avoiding the new Stoneface event, so I can't comment.

As far as the love thing goes, it would be kind of weird of him to say treat them with love, if he wasn't...

On the unregistered elves, you did not pay for Cira, you stole her, and if you are on the slave route, you did not pay for Peni, Nia stole her.
 
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MECHALLAMA

Newbie
Jul 27, 2023
16
14
Still avoiding the new Stoneface event, so I can't comment.

As far as the love thing goes, it would be kind of weird of him to say treat them with love, if he wasn't...

On the unregistered elves, you did not pay for Cira, you stole her, and if you are on the slave route, you did not pay for Peni, Nia stole her.
Every one of the elves in my hotel were paid for through the HHN (or whatever it was called) via the computer. Technically they were all stollen or escaped, but YOU still BUY them from the HHN after they request you to be their master. If there's any obtainable elves that you don't still have to PAY for I didn't have them yet, the stoneface plot should be inaccessible before that point to avoid this issue. I stopped playing right after the "kidnapping?" but did have a couple unfinished routes, so if there was another new elf you somehow don't buy the same as the others I wouldn't know because I never got to it.
 

TheDevian

Svengali Productions
Game Developer
Mar 8, 2018
15,048
35,435
Every one of the elves in my hotel were paid for through the HHN (or whatever it was called) via the computer. Technically they were all stollen or escaped, but YOU still BUY them from the HHN after they request you to be their master. If there's any obtainable elves that you don't still have to PAY for I didn't have them yet, the stoneface plot should be inaccessible before that point to avoid this issue. I stopped playing right after the "kidnapping?" but did have a couple unfinished routes, so if there was another new elf you somehow don't buy the same as the others I wouldn't know because I never got to it.
No, Cira was not. And neither was Peni in the Slave route.
 
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MECHALLAMA

Newbie
Jul 27, 2023
16
14
No, Cira was not. And neither was Peni in the Slave route.
As I'd said I don't have that elf yet, and am not playing the slave route. It doesn't change the fact that without having Cira and not doing the slave route every elf I'd had was legal. It's a massive plot hole and sounds like it should have been blocked behind requiring you get Cira first.
 

TheDevian

Svengali Productions
Game Developer
Mar 8, 2018
15,048
35,435
As I'd said I don't have that elf yet, and am not playing the slave route. It doesn't change the fact that without having Cira and not doing the slave route every elf I'd had was legal. It's a massive plot hole and sounds like it should have been blocked behind requiring you get Cira first.
Then you are doing things our of order, you are talking about events that just happened (Stoneface, I haven't even done this new one yet), when getting Cira was a long time ago (2 updates {v16}, but over a year and a half real time).
So you might be right about the lock needing to be there, but hard to plan for every combination. The game generally assumes you are not putting most of your effort into one girl, and ignoring some others, that you are more or less caught up, but some of those auto triggering events can make that a challenge.
But that is what it is referring to.
Is the gameplay good? I see a lot of 3d, but is the game just images or you can explore with a 3d model?
The game uses 2d renders for a sandbox game (where you generally get to go where you want, when you want).
 
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kjj308

Member
Nov 2, 2022
109
181
I have to agree with you, I personally hated the entire "Stoneface" plot twist it was very out of place if anything. Sort of a forced contrived layer over what could have been more of a "papa cuck" situation but instead ended up as a nonsensical mafia "put baby in the corner" twist. I honestly found myself just skimming through Ash's more recent story for more of the same. The story is kinda convoluted in areas that would of been better off left a bit more simplistic. I find the general shift a bit frustrating tbh especially Ash's story as "oh wasn't there got taken here, OH wasn't there got taken here~" on repeat. I'm not usually so critical of these types of VNs but theres multiple points that just seem forced and out of place. Like the dungeon bit where you gotta convince the dude "love is the better way to train slaves" just totally out of place if you'd been treating her as a person up till then. Like it defeated the purpose of the entire "you should treat elves as people" argument they'd been pushing. I think this has some potential but most the plotholes are glaring and or it writes itself into corners only for unrewarding "ass pull" jumps. totally not trying to shit on the authors work either if anything id hope criticism can help them avoid similar issues going forward. The F&E plot specifically was a significant step down in quality it took me from a borderline 4, down to a 2/5 and while my opinion isn't all that important I'm sure theres likely others that feel similar. Especially when it's like "I'll talk to moon about making defenses" and then doesn't let you do anything about your defenses before something happens. OR the "unregistered elves in the back" I CLEARLY HAD TO PAY FOR THEM SO WTF DO YOU MEAN UNREGISTERED? THEY JUST DONT "WORK" IN THE HOTEL. That alone was the dumbest argument imaginable. "oh no don't tell on them I'll go with you" what nonsense. Honestly from the moment you meet their cuck dean father the story just takes a huge obnoxious step down. (sorry sort of had to rant there). If anything I was hoping the white hair chick would end up being a half elf or something with "snipped ears" who would become some sort of support for the MC. Sadly that's not where it went at all, would have been far more interesting as opposed to where it went.
Yah, that's definitely another issue that's becoming more and more of a thing, the plot just gets more and more convoluted. I try not to be too bothered by the plot holes and other things because honestly, I am trying my hardest to not take the plot as seriously as Runey is trying for. But I just feel like if that was written that way in the first place, a bit less serious, it would just make a lot of the plot points a little easier to swallow.
 

MECHALLAMA

Newbie
Jul 27, 2023
16
14
Then you are doing things our of order, you are talking about events that just happened (Stoneface, I haven't even done this new one yet), when getting Cira was a long time ago (2 updates {v16}, but over a year and a half real time).
So you might be right about the lock needing to be there, but hard to plan for every combination. The game generally assumes you are not putting most of your effort into one girl, and ignoring some others, that you are more or less caught up, but some of those auto triggering events can make that a challenge.
But that is what it is referring to.

The game uses 2d renders for a sandbox game (where you generally get to go where you want, when you want).
I'd not picked this title up since super early into its original release, until maybe the 2nd to last update. So theres no way a new or returning player would know the contents play/release order without following the regular updates. As for the stoneface thing, I had no idea what it was about I'd just noticed the option popped up in my room one day and went with it. I guess a solid suggestion to the dev would be to go back and lock some of these quests behind requiring other events be done first to avoid issues like this with an update. I tend to wait long periods between updates to increase to binge playability and also only loosely skim the devs update notes to avoid big spoilers. The upside to this at least, is brining these issues to the authors attention will at least help them catch/patch things. (re-replied due to a weird misclick)
 

MECHALLAMA

Newbie
Jul 27, 2023
16
14
Yah, that's definitely another issue that's becoming more and more of a thing, the plot just gets more and more convoluted. I try not to be too bothered by the plot holes and other things because honestly, I am trying my hardest to not take the plot as seriously as Runey is trying for. But I just feel like if that was written that way in the first place, a bit less serious, it would just make a lot of the plot points a little easier to swallow.
Same, I'll just put this on the backburner again and wait for the story to push much further and then come back to it. Hopefully things take a better turn soon. LOL would be cool if by that point you're able to get with the queen.
 

TheDevian

Svengali Productions
Game Developer
Mar 8, 2018
15,048
35,435
I'd not picked this title up since super early into its original release, until maybe the 2nd to last update. So theres no way a new or returning player would know the contents play/release order without following the regular updates. As for the stoneface thing, I had no idea what it was about I'd just noticed the option popped up in my room one day and went with it. I guess a solid suggestion to the dev would be to go back and lock some of these quests behind requiring other events be done first to avoid issues like this with an update. I tend to wait long periods between updates to increase to binge playability and also only loosely skim the devs update notes to avoid big spoilers. The upside to this at least, is brining these issues to the authors attention will at least help them catch/patch things. (re-replied due to a weird misclick)
Yeah, it's starting to get to where you would be advised to follow the wiki to keep people close to even.
That said, that is why we try to report these issues to him in the bug report channel (Discord), so they can get the proper flags, so these things can be avoided in the future.
You might want to go there, mention what event it was you were doing, and mention that it might need a flag for Maria's 0.16 event.
 

87t87t

New Member
Oct 20, 2023
3
4
Or just hit the computer and type "makeitrain" until you're happy. 2-3x is enough to fully upgrade the bar which will cover every expense for the remainder of the game if you just want a headstart.
Why people insist upon using mods for this game escapes me. I can't think of a more straightforward game and the money cheats remove any kind of grind. It's all right there on the first page, but people keep insisting upon using mods, fucking up their saves, and creating problems for themselves and TheDevian.

makeitrain
makeitstorm
 

TheDevian

Svengali Productions
Game Developer
Mar 8, 2018
15,048
35,435
Why people insist upon using mods for this game escapes me. I can't think of a more straightforward game and the money cheats remove any kind of grind. It's all right there on the first page, but people keep insisting upon using mods, fucking up their saves, and creating problems for themselves and TheDevian.

makeitrain
makeitstorm
It is worse on other games I help out on, but this one has been a problem occasionally. Especially since Lain left.
 

shadowtempered

Active Member
Aug 22, 2020
859
1,671
Why people insist upon using mods for this game escapes me. I can't think of a more straightforward game and the money cheats remove any kind of grind. It's all right there on the first page, but people keep insisting upon using mods, fucking up their saves, and creating problems for themselves and TheDevian.

makeitrain
makeitstorm
At least the original Lain mod also restored cut content, so I could kinda see why some folks used it at the start. Beyond that, I agree. The doors tell you what the next steps for events are and I've never had any issues finishing any update since 2020.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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