VN Ren'Py Having a HARD Time [v0.4.1] [Quadruple-Q]

[Ahchi]

Honestly, if someone is under the influence of a drug but does a bad thing (like rape in this instance) are they even able to take accountability for it, fully I mean, especially since it was an accident and not something deliberate like drinking and then going to drive.

Imo, the MC's reaction afterwards is so overblown as if she did that of her own free will, which she did not, she was not at fault but reacted as if she decided to rape her friend

Don't know about other countries, but in the UK our Legal definition of "Sexual Assault" run to Nine pages long,
(Most people only bother to read the first two pages , (Big mistake)),
In essences the offender is the person in "CONTROL".
i.e. If you force someone to have sex with someone, (drugs, blackmail, threats to others etc)
you will be deemed to have Sexually Assaulted BOTH!

So therefore, if someone had tampered with the experiment,
which resulted in the MC's loss of control and the assault,
Then it is they not the MC who is at Fault!

 

[Commander Booty]

Honestly, if someone is under the influence of a drug but does a bad thing (like rape in this instance) are they even able to take accountability for it, fully I mean, especially since it was an accident and not something deliberate like drinking and then going to drive.

Imo, the MC's reaction afterwards is so overblown as if she did that of her own free will, which she did not, she was not at fault but reacted as if she decided to rape her friend

Setting aside the notion of fault or intent, I would strongly disagree and say that the MC's reaction is definitely not overblown at all. She may not have been in control of herself but she seemed to remember what she did after. She exclaimed "that was all real" as if it felt like a hallucination or fever dream and she indulged in it, because a voice inside herself told her it was a fantasy & not real - only to then realize after the fact that it was what actually happened. So she has memory of taking the actions herself albeit passively. It's still perfectly reasonable to feel guilt because it also is a testament to how she feels about her friend as well as a statement from the author about her personality and character. She is a person of conscience and anyone in her shoes who is not a complete sociopath would rightfully feel the same.

In contrast, it is also reasonable for her friend, and any outside party who knows her, to believe that she didn't do it intentionally and that she would never wish to hurt those she cares about, etc.

Think of it like being a passenger in an automobile. The driver is crazy and decides to run over a pedestrian - killing them in the process. You, as the passenger, are not as guilty as the driver... you were not in control and did not have that intention, but you didn't attempt to stop the vehicle before the collision. You may not legally be liable as an accessory or accomplice to the action but you may understandably feel guilt over it.

Even the act of witnessing some type of harm or violation is very psychologically impactful by itself.

 

[Quetzzz]

In contrast, it is also reasonable for her friend, and any outside party who knows her, to believe that she didn't do it intentionally and that she would never wish to hurt those she cares about, etc.

This is the part of the whole event that I have trouble with, personally. To me, it makes her seem too whore-ish. Just like at the bar, where, if you sit next to her BF, the friend will happily cuck him. I think she was written this way to make it "safe" for players to pursue her, but in doing so it diminishes her character as driven by lust.

 

[Abaddon Doom]

After the failed experiment, and the subsequent transformation of the protagonist, resulting in a sexual union with her friend, it could certainly be classified as rape. However, in this case, her friend had the best sex of her life! Bingo!

 

[GokutheG]

This is the part of the whole event that I have trouble with, personally. To me, it makes her seem too whore-ish. Just like at the bar, where, if you sit next to her BF, the friend will happily cuck him. I think she was written this way to make it "safe" for players to pursue her, but in doing so it diminishes her character as driven by lust.

Yeah it's the problem of the dev wanting to tackle the topic of rape and how it affects the mc but they completely neutered the actual consequences of the mc raping her friend by making the friend actually being into it.

It's not the first time I've seen a writer who wanted to tackle this heavy subject and fumbled the execution so poorly.

 

[Abaddon Doom]

This is all fantasy...let it embrace you in a world of escapism...don't let the real world with all of it's real world problems, issues, and moral dilemmas ruin the experience. I'm sure the creator wasn't trying to promote rape in any way...a situation happened, completely unintentionally, so an open mind is required.

 

[Quetzzz]

This is all fantasy...let it embrace you in a world of escapism...don't let the real world with all of it's real world problems, issues, and moral dilemmas ruin the experience. I'm sure the creator wasn't trying to promote rape in any way...a situation happened, completely unintentionally, so an open mind is required.

I don't think anyone accused the dev of promoting rape? Why are you even going there?

 

[GokutheG]

This is all fantasy...let it embrace you in a world of escapism...don't let the real world with all of it's real world problems, issues, and moral dilemmas ruin the experience. I'm sure the creator wasn't trying to promote rape in any way...a situation happened, completely unintentionally, so an open mind is required.

Oh no believe me I believe fiction is meant to tackle taboo subjects even topics that hit too close to home or even topics I personally find distasteful. My problem is that the mc is completely devastated emotionally from what she did at the end of chapter 1/beginning of chapter 2 but that emotional weight only seems to be relevant at those times since to the best friend the rape wasn't really a big deal.

So the tone of the writing seems off since we see how the event devastated the mc and how much guilt she carries while the actual victim seems like she couldn't care less. Unless this is all a mask from the mc's friend to try and deal with the event herself.

 

[Quetzzz]

So the tone of the writing seems off since we see how the event devastated the mc and how much guilt she carries while the actual victim seems like she couldn't care less. Unless this is all a mask from the mc's friend to try and deal with the event herself.

Agreed. This could've been a much deeper exploration of the MC'S state of mind, regarding noth the rape and her transformation, and for me, this nuance is missing.

Looking at how two-dimensional the best friend is portrayed, I don't think there's a lot more to her. It's shown how she'll cheat on her bf without a 2nd thought, for example.

 

[Maviarab]

Oh no believe me I believe fiction is meant to tackle taboo subjects even topics that hit too close to home or even topics I personally find distasteful. My problem is that the mc is completely devastated emotionally from what she did at the end of chapter 1/beginning of chapter 2 but that emotional weight only seems to be relevant at those times since to the best friend the rape wasn't really a big deal.

So the tone of the writing seems off since we see how the event devastated the mc and how much guilt she carries while the actual victim seems like she couldn't care less. Unless this is all a mask from the mc's friend to try and deal with the event herself.

Agreed. This could've been a much deeper exploration of the MC'S state of mind, regarding noth the rape and her transformation, and for me, this nuance is missing.

Looking at how two-dimensional the best friend is portrayed, I don't think there's a lot more to her. It's shown how she'll cheat on her bf without a 2nd thought, for example.

Curious just how deep and meaningful you wanted given the genre? The scene was there for a reason (not just to advance the plot) and it was hot as hell. Jeesh guys...c'mon...it's an AVN....

 

[Quetzzz]

Curious just how deep and meaningful you wanted given the genre? The scene was there for a reason (not just to advance the plot) and it was hot as hell. Jeesh guys...c'mon...it's an AVN....

Hot, absolutely... but when side characters (for now) show more nuance and character building than the MC and her bestie, I can't help but think that's a missed opportunity.
I'm perfectly fine treating this AVN as "just a porn game", it does a very good job at that... But it could've been more.

 

[Knight_of_the_lance]

In retrospective a few months after having digested the game, it is easy to remember characters as only their larger traits. To me Marianne is loyal to the MC to a fault, she even seek counsel for how to manage her relation with her Boyfriend. Naturally in the context of an AVN it is to get to a situation in a variety of NTR but it can also serve to show that the character clearly chose the MC as her main partner. Yes she seems two dimensional and maybe a bit too much driven by her hormones but she is at a time in her life where she has the opportunity for selfish behavior. Introspection, exploration and studying for goals. Her boyfriend is madly in love with Marianne but she might not be that into him in the end despite publicly showing reciprocity. I think her depth might be explored in that direction. Granted the rape incident could have been tackled better from her side, but I don't think that we are past a point where we can still explore that. As I said she is a loyal friend and might have chosen to be selfless and first help the MC find back herself while putting aside her own struggles. Those struggles are still there, they are just not apparent right now due to efforts to hide them.

At least that is an interpretation and working hypothesis. I am not in Quad-Q's head so I don't know where things will go going forward. I don't think the character is strictly two dimensional but that could change.

 

[GokutheG]

Curious just how deep and meaningful you wanted given the genre? The scene was there for a reason (not just to advance the plot) and it was hot as hell. Jeesh guys...c'mon...it's an AVN....

Honestly treating adult games as being just porn does the genre a disservice. This game shows that there's emotional weight to these characters I just found this situation a bit lacking.

Besides if I just wanted porn I wouldn't download an entire game and instead I'd just read some stories on literotica.

 

[Birdnman993]

Oh no believe me I believe fiction is meant to tackle taboo subjects even topics that hit too close to home or even topics I personally find distasteful. My problem is that the mc is completely devastated emotionally from what she did at the end of chapter 1/beginning of chapter 2 but that emotional weight only seems to be relevant at those times since to the best friend the rape wasn't really a big deal.

So the tone of the writing seems off since we see how the event devastated the mc and how much guilt she carries while the actual victim seems like she couldn't care less. Unless this is all a mask from the mc's friend to try and deal with the event herself.

My thoughts are the same, but I understand that if they took the time to reflect on complex feelings like regret, they wouldn't be able to rush through the sex scenes if the main character was debating her morals.

Although there is still a lot of plot to be seen in the story with the other characters.

 

[Simpgor]

Oh so it's OK to say the (utterly usless for all but the most intense fetishes) rape plot wasn't well executed now? I was catching a bunch of flack when I called it out at the time

 

[GokutheG]

My thoughts are the same, but I understand that if they took the time to reflect on complex feelings like regret, they wouldn't be able to rush through the sex scenes if the main character was debating her morals.

Although there is still a lot of plot to be seen in the story with the other characters.

Yeah it seems like the writer wants to tackle heavy topics while giving their characters weight is at odds with wanting the mc to actually enjoy having sex.

 

[Birdnman993]

Yeah it seems like the writer wants to tackle heavy topics while giving their characters weight is at odds with wanting the mc to actually enjoy having sex.

I think my friend thinks that this term is known as ludonarrative dissonance, when what the story wants to tell us and the player's actions contradict each other, but I don't think this is the case since they discarded that plot line from one chapter to the next.

Anyway, I don't see why there shouldn't be room for comedy and drama, and from the beginning many things cracked me up and then I was destroyed by the flashbacks in chapter 3, a roller coaster of emotions.

 

[Knight_of_the_lance]

Oh so it's OK to say the (utterly usless for all but the most intense fetishes) rape plot wasn't well executed now? I was catching a bunch of flack when I called it out at the time

The rape sequence was itself and from the MC's perspective well executed. It is simply put forward that Marianne's perspective is the least explored and the story would benefit from it. At least that is my current understanding of things. It is normal for a story to have better parts and others that are weaker. We would not have this discussion if everything was bad.

Sorry.

 

[Dessolos]

Yeah it's the problem of the dev wanting to tackle the topic of rape and how it affects the mc but they completely neutered the actual consequences of the mc raping her friend by making the friend actually being into it.

It's not the first time I've seen a writer who wanted to tackle this heavy subject and fumbled the execution so poorly.

Granted I do need to replay the game when the update comes as I kind of forget a bit how the best friends acts towards it exactly other than acting like it was no big deal. I'm kind of hoping she is just acting strong infront of the MC to make her not feel any worse for doing something out of her control. Which is why she acts like she enjoyed but I hope there will be a point in a future update where we find out she really is going through some stuff because of it.

 

[Simpgor]

The rape sequence was itself and from the MC's perspective well executed. It is simply put forward that Marianne's perspective is the least explored and the story would benefit from it. At least that is my current understanding of things. It is normal for a story to have better parts and others that are weaker. We would not have this discussion if everything was bad.

Sorry.

I don't think the scene itself or the aftermath (granted I only finished the scene I never even played the 2nd chapter because I said I called it and it turns out I did) is particularly well done.

From what I recall the scene is more or less: two girls enter science lab, something goes wrong and some gas? Is released, MC inhales gas? Gets dick and is on her best friend within 2-3 lines of dialogue, The "rape" happens but it's clearly going to end up with both participants looooooooving it.
I'm likely a bit off since i haven't touched this game since but there are multiple ways that even the scene itself could be made better (while giving more player choice without adding too much work).

Why not have the MC get to "decide" how much she wants to resist the urge (but have her do it in the end)? It would take a few lines of dialogue and a couple of extra Renders while making it "better" for people who fetishize rape and really allow the player to feel like they (mc) are trying to hold back instead of it just saying mc so horny must rape best friend no regurts.
You say that the best friend is the weakest part (agreed) but why not just have her slightly changed by the experiment? Sure MC was the one who got most of it but unless MC inhaled 100% of the futa stuff it would be easy to say and show "best friend gets a small amount and her sexual desire is increased because of it". Then she isn't just a "slutty LI who is safe to rape/use as sexual outlet" but instead someone who could be struggling similarly to MC. But futa on female go brrrrrrrr I guess who needs compelling writing.

My issue is (especially early on) the story is literally just set up/interdiction and the rape is one of the first "storybits" you get to and it doesn't seem to have changed that much (content seems to have changed but quality hasn't)