so after 3 games in a row, i cant help but feel that the games are formulaic, what i mean by that is that you have your mc who is happy with his loved ones, then something happens and bam the whole world starts having sex except the mc, stuff happens until a deus ex machina happens that gives the true and the happy ending. im not really sure calling it deus ex machine is fair though because the story stablishes that gods and the supernatural exist so its not like it comes out of now where, its just those endings only happen because a god or a supernatural force helps.
the hard part is that after 2 games its easy to tell when something is gonna happen and where a heorine will fall and all that, i guess the buildup is there but its predictable. at this point i think the way to solve that would be tha partial pov but also by having the heroines not act the same in all routes, make the actions the mc takes actually affect the outcome for a heroine maybe this time the mc slowly works a plan and at the climax we see his efforts paid off depending on the route we are playing, maybe in one route the heroines get fucked but they still help the mc when it counts and dont really betray him. maybe in another route they do. that element of not knowing if the heroine has fully fallen or betrayed you is something a lot of ntr lacks.
that would also help with replay value since some routes could have scenes exclusive to them, of course that is a lot more work but i think its something worth to take into account.
We aren't really here for NTR to revolutionize storytelling, though I get what you're saying and "omg the protagonist has split personalities and one was dormant or omg they can travel through time but only through dreams" would be a nice change. The genre, like many other simple genres (ex. action movies or slice of life romance) is usually about charming characters, relatable heroes, and their personalities.
The game just came out and I haven't tried it yet, but I'd only complain if the characters and their dialogue was awful, not so much the major predictable plot points of "innocent -> corrupted -> slut".
I've been looking forward to this game and even if it might be predictable I'll still take a 9/10 amazing well written game than ask it to really shake up storytelling.
I've been following this series since the end of HC1 and I don't plan on stopping any time soon. The game constantly keeps improving and I have so much respect and appreciation for N-taii's work ethic. I've just got my fingers crossed for a switch up in formula sometime down the line.
So what's my issue?
When you make all the antagonists into evil manipulative villains then the girls have to be susceptible and naive for it to be NTR.
That's the issue I'm having with the series right now. We see these wonderful bonds between the protagonist and the female characters and I look forward to seeing them get corrupted. Problem is the sheer levels of idiocy and weakness the women have to display to fall into the webs of these guys. By the time it starts happening I actually don't care about them anymore.
I saw a lot of potential with the princess and her ambitions. Would she be willing to find a lord to marry to strengthen the kingdom? Would she slowly fall for him because he's a good mentor and friend and forget about the protagonist? Nah she finger bangs herself because some obviously shitty dude tells her it could save the kingdom ( maybe it will )
Cyanna is such a lovable character. Strong headed but shy. If Brutus wasn't introduced as such a cliche evil henchman he would have been a perfect antogonist to slowly win her over but at this point it feels pretty obvious she's going to be strong armed into doing more and more depraved things going against her character. I really hope I'm wrong though.
Does all corruption have to start from a point of manipulation or bad intentions?
Maybe I'll be surprised entirely and something will happen I could never have forseen but the villain setup so far just seems like it's heading down the well trodden path.
anyway I know I've simplified quite a few things but I just wanted to rant.
I played the demo, despite saying I would wait, and I heavily agree with all of this. There's so much potential in these games but for me personally they fall short due to a few crucial reasons. In the end its all preference so I can't blame the game too much but nevertheless it ruins it for me.
I have liked NTR games with routes involving manipulation, but the NTR almost always hits harder when FMC:s "fall" comes about through much more natural means, something closer to regular seduction or attraction rather than "suck my D or everyone you care about will die". Once again, this is a preference and doubtless for many people the excitement lie in seeing the girl go from hating performing these acts to loving it. It does not help that the antagonists are presented the way they are. Here I'm afraid that I don't really have the vocabulary to voice what it actually is that bothers me, but somehow they all feel like sexual harrasment robots with personalities that don't feel human. And when they are doing the dirty they are too preoccupied with long "take it ya slut" dialogue to even act like a human being having sex. The partial PoV setting should help a bit since I have to click through fewer of those dialogue boxes that I would have prefered did not exist.
I have some hopes for the Pristess and the young noble city guard, I liked their brief interraction and how the game hints that her corruption (hopefully) won't be due to complete depravity but instead due to her "motherly warmth" developing into something very warm indeed. Seeing the MC being forced to go do something somewhere else while we all know that it allows things to develop in his abscense is a favorite trope of mine.
Something else I don't like personally is when a games setting seems like a giant orgy and in this game felt like it was the case already in the intro. I get that its supposed to keep the player from being bored by offering sexual content using side characters but all it does is desensitise the player to the bed creaking and the moaning and to the sprite animations before they are used when it really matters. I'm sure if these "appatizers" were not in the game a bunch of people would complain about how slow and boring the early game is, but for me personally they do a lot more harm than good.
I realise this post is pretty negative, but I really has a lot of praise for the developer too especially when It comes to the extreme amount of work and production value that goes into these games. And the gripes I have with the game are all preference based but they are gripes nonetheless.
EDIT: I forgot to praise the card game!! I actually liked it which is pretty crazy considering its a card game inside a porn game, who would have thought
1.why dont use ren py and focuse on only one love interest (college,or fantasy scenario or whatever you want as a dev)we meet her have romantic dates,cuddels build a connection and than the bully steals her slowly away
2.why ntr make often the mc very stupid or use very unrealistic scenarios
1) Use Ren'Py? Do you actually want me to do code? Dude, how bad do you hate me?^^ But more seriously, the reason why I use RPGMaker is written in the Q&A section of the OP
1.2) I use several characters for variety. Everyone has their preferences, so I try to have more bodytypes, appearances, personalities, etc... Also, it's more fun for me as a dev to write different dialogues and back stories for different characters. It's still relatively slow-burn though, with cuddles, hugs, kisses and all at the beginning.
2) The majority of porn games rely on unrealistic stories. Heck, the mere idea of having a woman being stolen away from her loved one through sexual corruption is pretty ludicrous. But NTR being what it is, people will always pay a lot more attention to the story and the reasons behind the "betrayal" and try to judge it based on real life standards. If you take a closer look at incest or harem games, they're usually not any better when it comes to being realisitic, yet people are far more lenient with those^^
I played part 2 and though it checked many boxes for me I gave up on it at some point. The very long dialogues during the sex scenes brought me out of it and probably other things that I can't put my finger on, I had the same experience with ntrpg. I did not really like the style of villain in either of those games very much. I understand that many people love both those games so I'm absolutely not claiming that they are bad games, just not for me.
I think however, that the partial POV might be the saving grace for me this time around, its in the spirit of "less is more" which I enjoy immensely. I really hope that's the case because I could see how much work and care went into chapter 2 and its a shame when you can't enjoy a game because of some small details that mess with your preferences when the groundwork is there for a really good experience. Especially when the game is as long as the games in this series are.
I'll try to hold off on it for now until its closer to completion, but we'll see how long that promise to myself lasts.
As has been said somewhere above, I've been experimenting with more descriptive narration during sex scenes in HC3. I've always been vary of it because I felt like my English wasn't good enough to take on narration, which requires better vocabulary and grammar than dialogues. Still I've had good feedback about it so far, so I'll keep trying to add some in longer scenes.
so after 3 games in a row, i cant help but feel that the games are formulaic, what i mean by that is that you have your mc who is happy with his loved ones, then something happens and bam the whole world starts having sex except the mc, stuff happens until a deus ex machina happens that gives the true and the happy ending. im not really sure calling it deus ex machine is fair though because the story stablishes that gods and the supernatural exist so its not like it comes out of now where, its just those endings only happen because a god or a supernatural force helps.
the hard part is that after 2 games its easy to tell when something is gonna happen and where a heorine will fall and all that, i guess the buildup is there but its predictable. at this point i think the way to solve that would be tha partial pov but also by having the heroines not act the same in all routes, make the actions the mc takes actually affect the outcome for a heroine maybe this time the mc slowly works a plan and at the climax we see his efforts paid off depending on the route we are playing, maybe in one route the heroines get fucked but they still help the mc when it counts and dont really betray him. maybe in another route they do. that element of not knowing if the heroine has fully fallen or betrayed you is something a lot of ntr lacks.
that would also help with replay value since some routes could have scenes exclusive to them, of course that is a lot more work but i think its something worth to take into account.
If you've been playing all 3 games back to back, then yes, it is going to feel repetitive. They feel formulaic because they are, they rely mainly on predictable patterns spiced up by different characters, set-ups, stories, antagonists, relationships, etc...
I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel to be honest, just improve it. Adding more endings, is one of those improvements, although I've never really wanted to split my work into different routes. I'm aiming at being a "stable" dev, meaning that when people play my games, I want them to understand what they're getting into, and they don't have to wait months for the content they want because I have to juggle several routes at the same time.
I personally listened to a ton of videos from "the closer look" YT channel while working, which focuses mainly on films, but on the script and story elements, which helped me better structure my story. He references Sanderson a few times in his videos.
Not ideal, but it is an option, yes : ) If you sub on Subscribestar, I will send you the version personally via PM. And if I forget, I encourage you to let me know on the same day through sending me a personal message here on F95.
I played the demo, despite saying I would wait, and I heavily agree with all of this. There's so much potential in these games but for me personally they fall short due to a few crucial reasons. In the end its all preference so I can't blame the game too much but nevertheless it ruins it for me.
I have liked NTR games with routes involving manipulation, but the NTR almost always hits harder when FMC:s "fall" comes about through much more natural means, something closer to regular seduction or attraction rather than "suck my D or everyone you care about will die". Once again, this is a preference and doubtless for many people the excitement lie in seeing the girl go from hating performing these acts to loving it. It does not help that the antagonists are presented the way they are. Here I'm afraid that I don't really have the vocabulary to voice what it actually is that bothers me, but somehow they all feel like sexual harrasment robots with personalities that don't feel human. And when they are doing the dirty they are too preoccupied with long "take it ya slut" dialogue to even act like a human being having sex. The partial PoV setting should help a bit since I have to click through fewer of those dialogue boxes that I would have prefered did not exist.
I have some hopes for the Pristess and the young noble city guard, I liked their brief interraction and how the game hints that her corruption (hopefully) won't be due to complete depravity but instead due to her "motherly warmth" developing into something very warm indeed. Seeing the MC being forced to go do something somewhere else while we all know that it allows things to develop in his abscense is a favorite trope of mine.
Something else I don't like personally is when a games setting seems like a giant orgy and in this game felt like it was the case already in the intro. I get that its supposed to keep the player from being bored by offering sexual content using side characters but all it does is desensitise the player to the bed creaking and the moaning and to the sprite animations before they are used when it really matters. I'm sure if these "appatizers" were not in the game a bunch of people would complain about how slow and boring the early game is, but for me personally they do a lot more harm than good.
I realise this post is pretty negative, but I really has a lot of praise for the developer too especially when It comes to the extreme amount of work and production value that goes into these games. And the gripes I have with the game are all preference based but they are gripes nonetheless.
EDIT: I forgot to praise the card game!! I actually liked it which is pretty crazy considering its a card game inside a porn game, who would have thought
One thing I have already mentioned somewhere else (I think in an answer to the same person you are answering to), is that my games aren't only NTR, but they also heavily rely on fetishes such as corruption and maledom, which leads to some tropes being present in most of them. That's why the MC has little to no dialogue, because it allows players to not identify with him if all they care about are corruption, not NTR.
I wouldn't judge the antagonists too early on though. There's more to them than meets the eye, and more depth to their backstory than one might expect, especially for the Duke, although he does seem like your every day ugly&fat bastard that does evil for the sake of being evil.
Btw, the card game is a parody of FF8's Triple Triad. I knew people would like it because, hey, whatever the game, I've never seen people ever complain about an optional card mini-game^^
One thing I have already mentioned somewhere else (I think in an answer to the same person you are answering to), is that my games aren't only NTR, but they also heavily rely on fetishes such as corruption and maledom, which leads to some tropes being present in most of them. That's why the MC has little to no dialogue, because it allows players to not identify with him if all they care about are corruption, not NTR.
I wouldn't judge the antagonists too early on though. There's more to them than meets the eye, and more depth to their backstory than one might expect, especially for the Duke, although he does seem like your every day evil ugly&fat bastard that does evil for the sake of being evil.
Btw, the card game is a parody of FF8's Triple Triad. I knew people would like it because, hey, whatever the game, I've never seen people ever complain about an optional card mini-game^^
Let me just take this oppertunity to thank you for developing these games and making them free for everyone, one literally could not complain about the quality of the game even if it was shit, which its far from being! The enviroments are extremely well done, the camerawork, everything. I hope those things are not too much of a bottleneck in development.
I would say that I'm a corruption fan, but probably in a different sense than most people. I completely understand why those tropes are in your game for those "most other people".
You are completely right that we should not judge the antagonists too early, and therefore I won't. I assumed that the duke was among the people behind
1) Use Ren'Py? Do you actually want me to do code? Dude, how bad do you hate me?^^ But more seriously, the reason why I use RPGMaker is written in the Q&A section of the OP
1.2) I use several characters for variety. Everyone has their preferences, so I try to have more bodytypes, appearances, personalities, etc... Also, it's more fun for me as a dev to write different dialogues and back stories for different characters. It's still relatively slow-burn though, with cuddles, hugs, kisses and all at the beginning.
2) The majority of porn games rely on unrealistic stories. Heck, the mere idea of having a woman being stolen away from her loved one through sexual corruption is pretty ludicrous. But NTR being what it is, people will always pay a lot more attention to the story and the reasons behind the "betrayal" and try to judge it based on real life standards. If you take a closer look at incest or harem games, they're usually not any better when it comes to being realisitic, yet people are far more lenient with those^^
its crazy to me the double standard criticism of “realism” that comes to NTR. I’ve come to realize, a lot of the times people bring up realism in fictional porn only when it bothers them or they want to be hyper-critical of it which defeats the purpose of playing a fictional porn game. “Oh that kind of blackmail is not realistic..call the cops…how can they enjoy this..etc” I think the realism argument should be consistent across all genres but it’s funny it’s always the most prevalent in NTR. Where is the realism in a young boy fucking his mom and sister at the same time or average male protagonist that has a harem of women by being nice?? If Hentai was mainly realistic, I know damn well it wouldn’t be big as it is and I certainly wouldn’t enjoy it as much as I do. It’s meant to be an escape. So, realism criticism is laughable to me especially when it isolates a particular genre conveniently..
I have played HC 3 demo . all I can say I really like the game also HC2 and Merry H-Mas .
It's just because it's has many girl that close to you get stolen one by one this is exactly what im looking for... other games just focus only 1 girl .
and in my opinion the only thing that doesn't fit with my taste is each girl gets each bull . like while im playing HC2 what I'm hoping for is the main antagonist gets other girl too .
to be specific like that one Doujin title "A Story About Romcom Protagonist Heroines being Stolen by His Friend" by motsuaki, it's my favourite one haha.
well it's just my taste thou dont take much into it .
ok back to HC 3
the story,character,theme,scene, and etc ( I dont know how to say in English sorry lol ) all really good.
the design is really eye catching from previous game,it's more animeish. good job.
the H scene with random NPC is already a teasing. the bond between MC with heroines really tight and wholesome , makes the NTR will become more heartbreaking and painful.
the Hscene I noticed new things like shadow scene in tent, it is the most underated NTR things thankyou for doing that.
then for mini games I think you will not put this on HC 3 right ?cmiiw . because in HC 2 the minigames I have to alt tab alt tab to guides and it's troublesome for continue the story haha.
Lastly, my wish and ofcourse you will know my wish if you still remember my other post. well that maybe overkill haha I will not try to force you. in other means maybe it has to be more often to shown up I think and the after sex scene things can be visited by MC so knowing that certain place has something going on earlier . It's doesnt have to be jizz on the floor maybe a used condom (idk if condom is exist in this game) or panties,bra,etc. and FYI I really like after sex scene in Merry H-Mas it's the reason I kept following your works and maybe you can take preference from your Merry Hmas.
My appreciation is big for you . for me you are the last standing content creator to create NTRPG and the genre I like "harem being stolen" . keep the good work bud.
I hope the background in the sprites get upgraded in N_taii's next game get upgraded even further like this game in the link. It really adds to the atmosphere, mystery NTR elements and storytelling
I've seen a lot of suggestions lately on this thread regarding the best approach on NTR but i've yet to see somebody talk about the feature that is possibly the backbone of the game, okay maybe not the backbone but it makes the game 10x times better. What i'm talking about is none other then...The Repeatable Freeroam H-scenes!
CH2 was great in many ways but since the MC's role was to observe the events that are unfolding around him there was not much to do in-between quests other than starting the next one which, to me at least, made the game feel a bit...empty, i guess. Fortunately that was only until we reached what i belive to be the best part of the game, the Denial. It's where the girls are already having sex with their antagonists and even though they're clearly enjoying it they make up some excuse as to why they agreed to it, a perfect example is when Celis and Edwyr are having sex for the first time without a condom in the cave. That Denial phase is when the girls started appearing around the map during freeroam and it made the game so much more enjoyable it was unbelivable. Before that, the only way for you to see some action was to start a quest, do what you were told to do, and while you were doing it the POV sometimes changed to the girl, and you got a glimpse of what was happening. This feature made the world feel much more alive and it gave you the feeling that even though you're not present, things are still happening. Not to mention now you had control over these scenes, well...you didn't exacly have control over the scenes themselves but rather you were able to trigger them whenever you wanted to, once you knew what was happening and when.
What i was trying to say is that more in-depth and more frequent freeroam scenes would make CH3 a much more enjoyable game. Not to mention if i had to take a guess then i would say these scenes take less time to make and they only need to be added to the game once but they provide as content for the rest of the game, for example let's say in Update 7 there is a new freeroam scene where if you go to the Tavern on Lundath evening the tavern is closed and this drunk guy at the entrance says something like "This is the second time this week Lily closed up early, she's been acting weird lately", and if you look up to the window you can see her with Tavros in his room or something like that that's not the point, the point is that from then on, in the following updates, whenever you go to the Tavern on Lundath evening, there is going to be a scene for you, and at some point it could even change to something more hardcore as her corruption is progressing. I was actually pleasantly surprised at the amount of scenes like these that were in the Demo, i honestly wasn't expecting more than 1 and even that was wishful thinking but it makes me really optimistic towards the game.
I've seen a lot of suggestions lately on this thread regarding the best approach on NTR but i've yet to see somebody talk about the feature that is possibly the backbone of the game, okay maybe not the backbone but it makes the game 10x times better. What i'm talking about is none other then...The Repeatable Freeroam H-scenes!
CH2 was great in many ways but since the MC's role was to observe the events that are unfolding around him there was not much to do in-between quests other than starting the next one which, to me at least, made the game feel a bit...empty, i guess. Fortunately that was only until we reached what i belive to be the best part of the game, the Denial. It's where the girls are already having sex with their antagonists and even though they're clearly enjoying it they make up some excuse as to why they agreed to it, a perfect example is when Celis and Edwyr are having sex for the first time without a condom in the cave. That Denial phase is when the girls started appearing around the map during freeroam and it made the game so much more enjoyable it was unbelivable. Before that, the only way for you to see some action was to start a quest, do what you were told to do, and while you were doing it the POV sometimes changed to the girl, and you got a glimpse of what was happening. This feature made the world feel much more alive and it gave you the feeling that even though you're not present, things are still happening. Not to mention now you had control over these scenes, well...you didn't exacly have control over the scenes themselves but rather you were able to trigger them whenever you wanted to, once you knew what was happening and when.
What i was trying to say is that more in-depth and more frequent freeroam scenes would make CH3 a much more enjoyable game. Not to mention if i had to take a guess then i would say these scenes take less time to make and they only need to be added to the game once but they provide as content for the rest of the game, for example let's say in Update 7 there is a new freeroam scene where if you go to the Tavern on Lundath evening the tavern is closed and this drunk guy at the entrance says something like "This is the second time this week Lily closed up early, she's been acting weird lately", and if you look up to the window you can see her with Tavros in his room or something like that that's not the point, the point is that from then on, in the following updates, whenever you go to the Tavern on Lundath evening, there is going to be a scene for you, and at some point it could even change to something more hardcore as her corruption is progressing. I was actually pleasantly surprised at the amount of scenes like these that were in the Demo, i honestly wasn't expecting more than 1 and even that was wishful thinking but it makes me really optimistic towards the game.
I agree with what you said, in my game, one of the biggest challenges I'm facing is precisely to give "life" to the game environment. It's something that needs to be done calmly, to end up not filling it with too much unnecessary stuff, in addition to being something that needs to make sense in the whole context of the story.
That said, it's also important to say how difficult it is to make a game that most people likes, there are many different opinions, just in this thread, it's possible to see several cases like this.
A lot of people might like to see more extra scenes with secondary characters, others might find it takes away from the main focus of the game, some people like the way the antagonists act, and others will hate it. Some want to see more details, others less.
It's important to say that I don't think this is a bad thing, it's actually nice to have a lot of different feedback and opinions.
N_Taii, Please tell me, I am from a country (R) where patrion is banned, in what way or through what application can I subscribe to you and receive a version of the game.
N_Taii, Please tell me, I am from a country (R) where patrion is banned, in what way or through what application can I subscribe to you and receive a version of the game.
You can either go to Subscribestar (I don't post the updates there, but I'll send it to you personally via PM), or you can wait for the 20th where I'll also release it for 5$ on Patreon + itch.io (I don't think itch is blocked in Russia?)
