VN Ren'Py Onhold Hillside [v0.15 First Half] [DarkBlue]

[Old Dog]

I think that kaylah may just step a side when she realises that Charlotte has feeling for the MC as Kaylah has already mentioned that she will not stand in the way if Charlotte makes a move towards the MC.
Lucy is going to be a tough one as she has always been in her sisters shadow and realises how hard it will be for her to see the MC/Charlotte together so who will make the ultimate sacracise?

 

[Jarulf]

Maybe the MC will just get on his horse and ride into the sunset once he's saved everyone.

 

[Old Dog]

probably safer for him

 

[Irgendwie Irgendwo]

I had a doubt which I raised a few posts ago. If you're on the Emma route, does she still save the MC's number as "Dad"?
I still just feel uncomfortable af because Emma is literally a 14 y/o from what she looks like.

I am pretty sure I have maximum Emma points (don't know if that means a route choice or not) and got the Dad phone.

 

[TheCrimsonRevenger]

Maybe the MC will just get on his horse and ride into the sunset once he's saved everyone.

I'm pretty sure the Patrons would riot. Uh, I mean the Patrons would "fiery-but-mostly-peacefully protest."

But that would be funny AF...

 

[CachedBaguette]

I think that kaylah may just step a side when she realises that Charlotte has feeling for the MC as Kaylah has already mentioned that she will not stand in the way if Charlotte makes a move towards the MC.
Lucy is going to be a tough one as she has always been in her sisters shadow and realises how hard it will be for her to see the MC/Charlotte together so who will make the ultimate sacracise?

If I'm not mistaken, there was dialogue (or monologue?) when Lucy accept that Charlotte loves MC and she's even willing to push them together.

 

[UncleFredo]

Maybe excuse wasn't the right term, English isn't my mother tongue.

Still i dont think he has the legal defense of self-defense, not when the court has access to all we seen.
Hillside is basically Bootleg Hollywood, so lets check California's law on this:

Which imo because carter was disarmed and in a choke hold he fails the third and potentially the first requirement
at which point he may still call for the Flannel doctrine so he gets a less severe charge.

You guys might disagree but that's how i see it.


I guess the difference here is that i really don't see Carter as having any chance of escaping or badly hurting the MC when the MC managed to choke hold him.

Since english isn't your mother tongue, I'll ASSume you are not familiar with the legal system in the USA.
It's very basic. The US legal system, assuming it operates properly, reserves to a person the ABSOLUTE right of self defense, limited to situations where that person is being attacked. Now up to the point where the person is facing deadly force and is in fear for their life or the life or lives or others, that right is mitigated by the notion of appropriate force. Appropriate force takes into consideration the circumstances involved. For example a man of moderate age who is in good shape is attacked by an unarmed person. Were he to pull out a pistol and kill his attacker his actions would be scrutinized and he'd likely have to convince a jury that he was in fact in fear for his life. Consider the same attack on a 90 pound 60 year old woman who shoots her attacker. Her use of deadly force would almost assuredly be accepted at face value.

In this case Carter attacks an unarmed MC with a deadly weapon declaring his intent to kill him and chop Charlotte into pieces in front of Emma. There is NO question that the MC faces a deadly threat and is at least in fear for Charlotte's and Emma's life, if not his own. Then he gets badly cut. Carter never surrenders. The MC has NO legal, or (in my opinion) moral, obligation to leave him alive to later threaten Charlotte or Emma. Had Carter not had the knife and declared his intent to kill, the actions of the MC MIGHT have been difficult to defend, but as staged he was within his rights and Carter got exactly what he deserved.

All over the world, there are instances where a misapplied chokehold broke a suspect's neck. Other than weird Hillside legal corruption, there is no way this comes back on the MC.

 

[UncleFredo]

Well, hopefully we see some scenes in the next update however I don't think there will be any Char scenes due to the animosity that'll remain after the murder. Part of me feels it's being rushed up.

I had a doubt which I raised a few posts ago. If you're on the Emma route, does she still save the MC's number as "Dad"?
I still just feel uncomfortable af because Emma is literally a 14 y/o from what she looks like.

In any case, the latest update had a part where Kaylah told Charlotte that the MC turned her down. So I think Charlotte route would only be available if you're loyal to her. Harem or any "Dual" endings seem unlikely, at least not any of the endings involving Charlotte.



Oh, there's going to be minimal blowback on the MC. He did it in self defense and Carter was corrupt but there's a likely chance it may be exploited for future drama (and next update will deal with what you gotta do with the body, likely they'll just dump it there and leave). Imagine asking Charlotte to give you and Carter's corpse a ride to the closest landfill lmao.



Agent Fox is an interesting character. I do think there'll be an option where we can pick her as an LI. However that might be very far off and might interfere with the Char route I'm going on probs

I assume MC will send Charlotte to take Emma home, then call his bartender warbuddy to come help him dispose of the body.

Sidenote: You know you have a true blue ride-or-die friend if they'll drop everything and come help you hide a corpse

MC knows enough by now to know...or at least suspect that Carter is involved with the Sex Slavery Ring, and might reasonably anticipate that if he tries to tell the truth he'll just get setup by other corrupt cops.

Also judging from bits of slang sprinkled throughout this game I believe it's all set in Europe. Britain, most likely. And Europeans don't have nearly the level of respect for self-defense that Americans have. Red/Purple State Americans, at least. So while MC was morally right to kill Carter, it's possible he might still have violated some sort of duty-to-retreat law. A psychotically unjust law, but a law nonetheless. Further incentive to hide the body.

Maybe the agent lady will even help.

They don't dump the body. Charlotte calls her lawyer(s) and explains whats happened. (And yes she can call 24x7x365 and they will answer the phone). Having called her lawyer(s), Charlotte calls the police with the news that her daughter and her bodyguard have been assaulted and that they need an ambulance and that there are wounded. She doesn't tell them anyone is dead. She doesn't need to, nor should she or Emma approach Carter's remains. Wrap something around the MC's arm and wait for the EMTs. If the police beat her lawyer(s) to the scene, say nothing to nobody until they arrive.

"I've never been so upset or confused. My lawyer is a close personal friend as soon as he/she gets here I'm happy to talk with you. I'm providing legal representation for my daughter and my employee and I expect you to extend to them the same courtesy."

Once Charlotte invokes the lawyers the cops stop asking anything.

Then they wait for the lawyer(s) and police to arrive. Remember the MC hasn't broken the law. Innocent people call the cops. It really is that simple.

 

[UncleFredo]

Respectfully, use of force in self defense has to be proportional. You can't kill someone if you are shoved. The standard is, 'would a reasonable person perceive an immediate threat of grave bodily harm or death to themselves or others, having exhausted all options, such as retreat?' Unless 'Fake California' passed a Stand Your Ground Law which removes the duty to retreat, that may be where a prosecutor may have a point.

But, as many can see, just as we are getting into the weeds on self-defense, Dev will probably take the explanation that keeps the game focused on the characters, not on niche legal issues.

Yes proportional. - What exactly is proportional to an attacker armed with a deadly weapon with the stated intent to kill you and those your protect? Luckily the legal system has an answer. Which is, any level of deadly force is considered appropriate. Period. When defending others, in this situation, you are there is no state that requires you to retreat. Remember, he's hired to protect them. Even in California he doesn't have to retreat and leave them to Carter's mercy. Further, Carter is attacking, retreat generally is the case where someone has broken into your home with the intent to ROB you not an attack in the open where the attacker's declared intent is to kill you and those you protect.

There simply is NO legal space that even suggests he didn't have the right to use deadly force in his and their defense. Period. DB has established a foundational defense for the MC's actions. Whether or not the legal process in Hillside will respect that is yet to be determined, but in the real world. Once the lawyer(s) show and statements are taken. They all go home. No one spend even a night in jail.

 

[Bendover885]

Yes proportional. - What exactly is proportional to an attacker armed with a deadly weapon with the stated intent to kill you and those your protect? Luckily the legal system has an answer. Which is, any level of deadly force is considered appropriate. Period. When defending others, in this situation, you are there is no state that requires you to retreat. Remember, he's hired to protect them. Even in California he doesn't have to retreat and leave them to Carter's mercy. Further, Carter is attacking, retreat generally is the case where someone has broken into your home with the intent to ROB you not an attack in the open where the attacker's declared intent is to kill you and those you protect.

There simply is NO legal space that even suggests he didn't have the right to use deadly force in his and their defense. Period. DB has established a foundational defense for the MC's actions. Whether or not the legal process in Hillside will respect that is yet to be determined, but in the real world. Once the lawyer(s) show and statements are taken. They all go home. No one spend even a night in jail.

I agree with your point: deadly force was justified here. Even morally speaking, MC had a greater obligation to save Emma and Charlotte than to subdue Carter.

I think it's all moot, as I don't think either the Hillside Cartel or the Dev want to see a highly publicized trial.

 

[Faptime]

I've been enjoying the game for a while now, and there's only one scene that I've come across that (in my opinion) needs a rewrite and that's the Shop Assistant scene.

As a bodyguard, I find it hard to believe that MC would allow himself to be chased away from his client over something so trivial. Especially since the solution to the problem was just a few paces away in the change room.

Having Emma come out and say that MC is supposed to be there and having Kayla come out and tell the Shop Assistant to mind her own fucking business or lose the sale is the only logical course of action for this scene. Having MC leave his client behind makes no sense.

A minor quibble, but it rubbed me the wrong way. Another MC in another game, sure. This MC, a bodyguard, being chased off by a sexist twat-nozzle in this part of town when he's on edge for Emma's safety? No way.

Anyways, like I said, a minor thing. Loving the game so far and I'm not looking forward to the moment when I confirm Lucy's fears and choose Charlotte.

 

[Alfius]

Nice update as always

 

[Jarulf]

I'm pretty sure the Patrons would riot. Uh, I mean the Patrons would "fiery-but-mostly-peacefully protest."

I'm a Patron, but I'm not sure how I'd react honestly. But it would be kind of funny, yes.
If there is a no love path, he might just leave after the job is done as with any job. Not sure about the horse though.

 

[TheCrimsonRevenger]

They don't dump the body. Charlotte calls her lawyer(s) and explains whats happened. (And yes she can call 24x7x365 and they will answer the phone). Having called her lawyer(s), Charlotte calls the police with the news that her daughter and her bodyguard have been assaulted and that they need an ambulance and that there are wounded. She doesn't tell them anyone is dead. She doesn't need to, nor should she or Emma approach Carter's remains. Wrap something around the MC's arm and wait for the EMTs. If the police beat her lawyer(s) to the scene, say nothing to nobody until they arrive.

"I've never been so upset or confused. My lawyer is a close personal friend as soon as he/she gets here I'm happy to talk with you. I'm providing legal representation for my daughter and my employee and I expect you to extend to them the same courtesy."

Once Charlotte invokes the lawyers the cops stop asking anything.

Then they wait for the lawyer(s) and police to arrive. Remember the MC hasn't broken the law. Innocent people call the cops. It really is that simple.

In a "normal" context I would agree that would be the most plausible scenario.

Well laid out on your part, by the way. Kudos.

But remember they are dealing with the deeply corrupt Hillside PD. And a Jeffrey Epstein(who did not kill himself)-level sex slave ring that has can wield the all the power, wealth, and influence of it's many high profile bigshot members.

Think about how much everyone on the team trusted Carter right up until this happened. Would Charlotte still trust her lawyer? Even if we assume the Lawyer isn't already compromised(Which is by no means guaranteed) that does not mean they can't be in short order, whether through bribery or intimidation. Or both.

The only people they know for sure they can trust are each other. Going through proper channels only works when you have a reasonable expectation that the proper authorities aren't corrupt. A difficult hurdle to clear with the corpse of a cop you mistakenly trusted still laying warm at your feet....

 

[LWtbo]

Hate to flog a dead horse and not making excuses but.
And I doubt that it will make any difference to the arguement.
What we see as taking time and for some of us more time than other's depending on reading Speed.
Could easyly of been decribed as being over in mere seconds in real time.
Since people think a hell of a lot faster than they read.
And there are that so few frame's between the start of the choke hold to the Snap of the neck.

P.S. alots said about the MC being X-military so why was Carter stupid enough to attack him.
Please don't forget Carter wasn't some thug or man off the street either he was a Detective.
Police trained might (ok I doubt the police will for give me for this it may not be to the same lvl as the military" but Im guessing they still teach unarmed combat plus Carter acts as though he maybe a psychopath.
Why would he care the MC is x-military he probably felt no one could beat him in a fight.

Just saying.

 

[Crese1967895]

Spoiler: No Immediate Threat

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Who's going to tell on the MC? Charlotte? There were no other witnesses and I doubt Charlotte would let loose that the MC could've incapacitated Carter instead of killing him. Besides that, Carter was actively resisting. He had his hands on the MC's arm so we can assume he was trying to get free(Especially because he was cussing at him).

 

[UncleFredo]

In a "normal" context I would agree that would be the most plausible scenario.

Well laid out on your part, by the way. Kudos.

But remember they are dealing with the deeply corrupt Hillside PD. And a Jeffrey Epstein(who did not kill himself)-level sex slave ring that has can wield the all the power, wealth, and influence of it's many high profile bigshot members.

Think about how much everyone on the team trusted Carter right up until this happened. Would Charlotte still trust her lawyer? Even if we assume the Lawyer isn't already compromised(Which is by no means guaranteed) that does not mean they can't be in short order, whether through bribery or intimidation. Or both.

The only people they know for sure they can trust are each other. Going through proper channels only works when you have a reasonable expectation that the proper authorities aren't corrupt. A difficult hurdle to clear with the corpse of a cop you mistakenly trusted still laying warm at your feet....

Your points are well made, but dumping the body is a criminal act. The corruption hides from daylight. So Charlotte calls Lucy to have her call the press as well. Maybe the MC calls his new FBI agent friend. Then you've got cops, lawyers, maybe the Feds, and cameras. It's suddenly VERY hard to cover this up or bury the three of them in the system.

As for Charlotte's ability to trust her lawyer(s). I'm no one special but I've had a relationship with my lawyer and his firm for 39 years. I can't say we're "friends", but over that period he's proven to be absolutely trustworthy. Among lawyers, his firm has a spotless record for integrity, and no amount of money would be worth damaging that reputation. Someone in Charlotte's position would have a long term relationship with her lawyer(s). One that's been tested over the years. Since we've seen no interaction between her and her lawyer(s) it's entirely speculative as to their integrity etc.

IMHO, regardless of the risks of abiding by the system, remaining innocent of any criminal activity as relates to this event seems far less risky. But your points are certainly valid.

 

[Chronos169]

as long as they don't hire Amber Turds lawyer....

 

[Irgendwie Irgendwo]

I can already imagine the scene. Minister knocks on the coffin: "Are you saying I do?"
*rumbling inside, sounds of someone turning around* "NOOOOOOOO! Is her mom here though?"

 

[Bendover885]

as long as they don't hire Amber Turds lawyer....

What, if any...