How fluent is your English?

[Conviction07]

I'm currently in the middle of doing a heavy rewrite on one of the games I work on, and was just curious how advanced I should get with the use of my vocabulary? From what I gather, the majority of both players and developers here aren't native English speakers, so I'm concerned that a big chunk of my potential player base could be left completely lost if I go a little too far with using bigger words that perhaps only a small percentage of players will actually understand. So I made a poll just to gauge what the general level of people's English comprehension here is. Also, is this something any of you other developers have considered, or should I just do me, everyone else be damned?

 

[MrBree]

I would strongly suggest that you consider focusing your writing on conciseness. Not 'vocabulary'. Ernest Hemmingway's novels are often considered masterpieces of English literature. They are written at a 5th grade level.

Hemmingway used concise and simple vocabulary. His sentences were short. But every word dripped with meaning.

If you are worried about 'advanced vocabulary', you should focus first on ensuring your writing is doing it's job. Advanced vocabulary gets in the way of the story more often than not.

Be clear and concise. You end up writing better. And you will be more understandable to foreign language speakers. Eschew obfuscation.

 

[gamersglory]

Native English speaker here and no I don't proofread Ptolemy's Games for him.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Perfectly, because it's my native language.

 

[おい！]

I agree that it should simple English, even if you use the American spelling of words.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I'm currently in the middle of doing a heavy rewrite on one of the games I work on, and was just curious how advanced I should get with the use of my vocabulary? From what I gather, the majority of both players and developers here aren't native English speakers, so I'm concerned that a big chunk of my potential player base could be left completely lost if I go a little too far with using bigger words that perhaps only a small percentage of players will actually understand. So I made a poll just to gauge what the general level of people's English comprehension here is. Also, is this something any of you other developers have considered, or should I just do me, everyone else be damned?

I really notice when a game is written by a non-English speaking person because they tend to use very formal English in the way that they were likely taught in school and often times use bigger more "proper" words than would normally be used among native English speakers. So I would just say that you should make the speech sound natural and not make it sound too fancy if it doesn't fit the characters and their environment. Simple but natural is probably the best way to go.

 

[W65]

Write however you think you ought, then throw it at some playtesters. Most folks will gloss over the occasional thing if they don't understand it completely; as long as that doesn't happen often or in story- or gameplay-critical areas it shouldn't be too disruptive. Then again, I'm a native speaker of English, and therefore am probably thinking mostly of other native speakers. When I do on occasional work with foreign languages, I tend not to be sure what I should and should not be getting hung up on.

The only thing I'd absolutely avoid is jargon and trade language, unless you're using it for very specific story or gameplay purposes. That's kinda obvious though.

 

[random.person]

I find the possible options to answer the poll not fully representative of my situation.
I'm not a native speaker, so my grasp and more so my usage of English is not perfect, but it's not "big words" that confuse me. The real wall is represented, in my humble opinion, by idiomatic expressions. Every language is full of those and sometimes they're lost on a foreigner because there is often no bullet-proof way to derive their actual meaning from the words they're composed of.
I mean, there's the classic example, how the heck is any sane person supposed to know, without having encountered such uses before, what these mean:
-knowing your shit;
-being the shit (as opposed to "being shit");
-get your shit together;
-being full of shit;
-X the shit out of Y;
-not giving a shit;
-a shitload of.
Only context and experience with English speakers can tell you why the same damn word appears in such different constructs.

So the real enemy is not some pesky accultured word like "serendipitously".
Besides, most non native English speakers have a scholastic education in the language, thus it's far more probable for us to know obsolete words or very formal expressions rather than the most common ones and especially rather than the vulgar ones.
I mean, we read some Shakespeare in high school, but my English teacher for sure never taught me what "fucking someone's brain out" means.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Write however you think you ought, then throw it at some playtesters.

I would definitely like to volunteer my services for this, especially if the game undergoing the rewrite is Living with Mia.

 

[gamersglory]

I really notice when a game is written by a non-English speaking person because they tend to use very formal English in the way that they were likely taught in school and often times use bigger more "proper" words than would normally be used among native English speakers. So I would just say that you should make the speech sound natural and not make it sound too fancy if it doesn't fit the characters and their environment. Simple but natural is probably the best way to go.

Also a lot of overuse of old 90,s and 80,s English Slang. BRO

 

[random.person]

Also a lot of overuse of old 90,s and 80,s English Slang. BRO

You're totally right. How do the cool kids say nowadays? I jebaited the pog outta their REEEE, got 'em normies totally bamboozled, was that it?

 

[Conviction07]

I really notice when a game is written by a non-English speaking person because they tend to use very formal English in the way that they were likely taught in school and often times use bigger more "proper" words than would normally be used among native English speakers. So I would just say that you should make the speech sound natural and not make it sound too fancy if it doesn't fit the characters and their environment. Simple but natural is probably the best way to go.

Of course. It's not like I'm going out of my way to use big words just for the sake of sounding pretentious, but being that the character is a detective, I'm definitely finding there to be times where it's naturally appropriate for him to use slightly more complex terms.

 

[libla]

Well then, here comes my first post on this page I guess.
I'd consider myself at "could almost be a native speaker, if I didn't forget words/fuck up my grammar at times". I'm pretty fluent, but sometimes I just fuck up when it comes to finding the right words intuitively.

 

[Conviction07]

I find the possible options to answer the poll not fully representative of my situation.
I'm not a native speaker, so my grasp and more so my usage of English is not perfect, but it's not "big words" that confuse me. The real wall is represented, in my humble opinion, by idiomatic expressions. Every language is full of those and sometimes they're lost on a foreigner because there is often no bullet-proof way to derive their actual meaning from the words they're composed of.
I mean, there's the classic example, how the heck is any sane person supposed to know, without having encountered such uses before, what these mean:
-knowing your shit;
-being the shit (as opposed to "being shit");
-get your shit together;
-being full of shit;
-X the shit out of Y;
-not giving a shit;
-a shitload of.
Only context and experience with English speakers can tell you why the same damn word appears in such different constructs.

So the real enemy is not some pesky accultured word like "serendipitously".
Besides, most non native English speakers have a scholastic education in the language, thus it's far more probable for us to know obsolete words or very formal expressions rather than the most common ones and especially rather than the vulgar ones.
I mean, we read some Shakespeare in high school, but my English teacher for sure never taught me what "fucking someone's brain out" means.

That's a great point I've never really thought about. Unfortunately, if you want dialogue to sound natural, there's really no avoiding that problem.

I would definitely like to volunteer my services for this, especially if the game undergoing the rewrite is Living with Mia.

lol, I wish. But no, the rewrite is for another game called REVOLT.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I mean, there's the classic example, how the heck is any sane person supposed to know, without having encountered such uses before, what these mean:
-knowing your shit;
-being the shit (as opposed to "being shit");
-get your shit together;
-being full of shit;
-X the shit out of Y;
-not giving a shit;
-a shitload of.

For the benefit of those who don't know these phrase:

• Knowing your shit = Being highly knowledgeable about a particular subject.
• Being the shit = Being of a very high quality, i.e. that was the shit = that was the best.
• Get your shit together = An instruction given to a person to either calm down if they are highly stressed or worked up, or a means of expressing tough love to someone who requires motivation.
• Being full of shit = Not being honest or truthful.
• X the shit out of Y = An expression of a desire to cause physical harm to a person, animal, or object.
• Not giving a shit = To not care about something.
• A shitload of = A non-scientific unit of measurement used to describe large quantities of a particular thing.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Also a lot of overuse of old 90,s and 80,s English Slang. BRO

That too.

 

[random.person]

That's a great point I've never really thought about. Unfortunately, if you want dialogue to sound natural, there's really no avoiding that problem.

That's for sure. The only thing I could suggest is to try to keep the context clear, whatever that might mean. For instance, if you feel something might be lost on someone try to use a few more words to give a clear picture. One might not get the expression per se, but understand the general meaning due to the circumstances.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

lol, I wish. But no, the rewrite is for another game called REVOLT.

Shame, because Mia could definitely use a rewrite and a Renpy remake. Still, the offer stands if you need people to playtest your rewrite.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Of course. It's not like I'm going out of my way to use big words just for the sake of sounding pretentious, but being that the character is a detective, I'm definitely finding there to be times where it's naturally appropriate for him to use slightly more complex terms.

Oh definitely. The best TV detectives are all intelligent so it would certainly fit a character like that.

 

[mickydoo]

The biggest thing is the context getting lost in translation, not the context itself. I'm Aussie, writing a plot for a town set Europe, aimed at a world wide audience, while knowing that most language on the net is aimed at Americans, I know this because of spell check. In Australia and other Britain influenced countries we call ass arse, and a bathroom is where you bathe, and where you shit is the toilet over here. There a countless words like that. I also have to be careful not to use any Aussie lingo as the none of the characters are Aussie, and I have a habit of typing like I talk, and I talk fluent Aussie. What Ive done is, the European town/s are made up names and mentioned, but the country in Europe is not, I don't mention currencies, you can score dope but he says it will cost you a 20, or "I need to earn some cash". I'm older than my intended audience so there will be context people will not be old enough to understand, but whoever does will get lolz so I put that in. Whatever you do don't try and be too clever, I assume none of us are professors of English literature so trying to be too clever will come off making no sense. If he is detective just use lingo you see on detective shows, if you want to make him sound clever, make him overly clever and make his underlying trait like no one understands what he is on about half the time, and have characters mention it now and again.