I think this needs to be said

[sansusername]

In an adult game full of fulfilling the taboo wishes of our dirty minds, there is no fucking reason that an incest relationship needs to be so sacred that the mere idea of our fake virtual relative having sex with someone else needs to mean the game is ruined.

let me say that a different way: If you think that a game is ruined the moment your incest love interest shows an interest outside of you as the player character, you're ruining this entire industry.

there are a ton of new and ambitious devs that are being discouraged to the point that they stop trying.

you can hate a game. just remember that these things are often being made by one person or a small team. They aren't going to be perfect, and the only way they'll improve at all, is if the devs think they're doing something worthwhile.

just seen a lot of hate directed at 2 devs in particular for this exact reason lately.

 

[clitkicker]

People have different interests. What feedback do you think people should give if not their honest one?

 

[Deleted member 41830]

I tend to agree with Clit here, I hate NTR, I refuse to play any game featuring NTR, Does that mean that I am ruining the whole "hentai" game industry? Now, I don't post publicly about said game, So I won't go to the thread and talk shit, But being that I am in a few different porn game communities, I get asked about games alot, I will state that I hate NTR and not interested, My thoughts on the matter is that by telling people not to give hate on a certain style or theme, is the real killer, because you are limiting the feedback income that "new devs" might be looking for. Ok let's say you have game A by Dev A, Well If Dev A decides to add NTR, even though it might not be his/her favorite fetish, It will stay there if no-one says "Hey, I don't like NTR, I am gonna avoid this." Which kills the game for people and/or future games by Dev A. Logically any feedback should be welcomed, As long as it's valid feedback, Because it gives the dev an insight on what to consider for the next game, Ok website A loves NTR, Website B doesn't really like NTR, He can weigh his options and decide the best form of attack. Speaking about what you like and don't like isn't killing the industry, Removing people's voices is. Some people may play Incest games sorely because they want their cum-hungry mother to please them and only them, Are they wrong for wanting that?

 

[Felicityskye]

People have different interests. What feedback do you think people should give if not their honest one?

Legitimate constructive criticism.

Just because someone's fetish's are not being met or the game doesn't go their way, doesn't mean it is okay to spew straight up hate. I've seen my fair share of uncivil bashing who have no interest in giving actual constructive criticism. You can honestly dislike something and still provide constructive criticism.

IMO, both pure positive ego stroking feedback like "This game is awesome!" with no other context, and pure negative feedback that boils down to hate aimed towards a dev, are not good or helpful feedback.

 

[Aeilion]

Personally, I prefer to see tons of non-constructive criticism in a ton of thread about good or bad games, rather than a ton of thread to complain about the comments of others.
If people do not like the ntr in the games of incest they have the right to say it ... If the developer stops working because of that .... It just proves that he does not have what is needed for this job.

 

[Felicityskye]

Personally, I prefer to see tons of non-constructive criticism in a ton of thread about good or bad games, rather than a ton of thread to complain about the comments of others.
If people do not like the ntr in the games of incest they have the right to say it ... If the developer stops working because of that .... It just proves that he does not have what is needed for this job.

Constructive criticism doesn't mean you're not allowed to say you dislike this or that. No one is saying you're not allowed to say you dislike this or that. That was not the point.

 

[Aeilion]

Really? Because when I read this:

If you think that a game is ruined the moment your incest love interest shows an interest outside of you as the player character, you're ruining this entire industry.

I have a doubt .... Anyway it's still a thread to cry over other comments. But if you want I can change "people do not like ntr" by "people say the game is shit" it does not change anything. They have the same right to say it. They are wrong if you want, non constructive if you want, it does not forbid them to say it. But there is already a tones of thread to cry about it I think ...

If the idea is to change the way people express themselves then do it the right way already. Without putting forward a false argument like the one mentioned above and stopping posting your own visions in a thread they may never see. Speak directly to them ....
If you want to defend your adored game, do it on the game thread ...

In short, do not complain about constructive comments when your own discussions do not bring anything.
Or keep talking to each other and go around in circles. For my part I leave you, good luck.

 

[muttdoggy]

A little background.. I've been on the internet pretty regularly since 1997. I had a tower from a builder who taught me how to build them. It was an old Intel 233 or sth. We had to use dial up modem and pray the windows 95 didn't crash. I learned pretty quickly how to use chat boards, usenet, and messengers. I've been a member of several forums and spent quite some time on the chans since then. So I have 20+ years of experience dealing with others on the internet. That's longer than some of you have been alive.
From my perspective.. it seems that as time goes on, people have become ruder, more hostile, less open, and far more aggressive. I can recall how nice it was to get some stuff on 2ch and then chat with a board about this or that japanese game since western games weren't really a thing. Now, you can't do that. I've tried to help someone correct a mistake on a meme but he and his cronies jumped all over me while the moderator turned a blind eye.
That began happening with regularity and it's pointing to what I perceive is a decay of common courtesy. Civility, dignity, strength are all cast aside in the name of "ME SO BAD!". It's getting ridiculous. I understand the need to tell a developer that this or that doesn't work or there's errors. I also understand that the developer needs to hear WHY.
How fucking hard is it to leave a comment where you SPECIFICALLY state what it is that bothers you?? Listen, if you can't say anything besides "You suck. Me angry", this is how I see you- I see you as too stupid to make a coherent statement, too emotionally shallow to think beyond the moment, and worst of all, a sign of the decay of society. Which do you want to be? A waste of space or a contribution to society? Your call!

 

[anne O'nymous]

While other address the NTR issue, me it's another thing which triggered me...

there is no fucking reason that an incest relationship needs to be so sacred that the mere idea of our fake virtual relative having sex with someone else needs to mean the game is ruined.

I feel confused here. What incest have to do with your point ?
Do you imply that your comment don't apply to none incestuous relationship, perhaps because it's legit to see them as sacred ? In this case, why an incestuous relationship can't be sacred, why the love felt is suddenly less important and/or less true and/or less deep, because the persons involved are blood related ?
Or do you imply that an incestuous relationship must be considered as pure fantasy, perhaps because you live in a country where incest is illegal ? In this case, why a fantasy can't imply real feelings ? Building feelings for fictional characters is a common thing and isn't limited to literature, it also happen with games when they are well written. People who dislike NTR will dislike it whatever it's a real relationship or just a fantasy, and whatever it's an incestuous relationship or not.
Or perhaps do you imply that an incestuous relationship never can be consensual and always imply corruption/blackmail/brainwashing, perhaps because you think it never happen in real life ? In this case, why ? Love isn't something we can control, it happen, that's all. And the myth saying that people have pheromones which are repulsive for blood related person, well, it's a myth. Blood related people sometimes truly fall in love for each other, that's all. There's even case, in probably all countries, when justice goes against the law to permit the wedding of people who are blood related but where adopted at birth by different families, never knew each other before their encounter, and didn't knew they were related before filling the wedding papers. An incestuous relationship can be illegal, depending of the country you live in, but isn't less real (in all the possible meaning of the word) than any other relationship.

Anyway, whatever the reason you felt the need to limit your comment to incestuous relationship, I hope you understand that you aren't different than the people you condemn. Because you think that NTR is legit in case of incestuous relationship, you argue against some people because they are "ruining this entire industry" ("industry"...), and you, violently, try to force your opinion into their mind.
To paraphrase you, "there is no fucking reason that [a game] needs to be so sacred that the mere idea of [a comment regarding the NTR content] needs to mean the [industry] is ruined". Believe it or not, but there's tons of games without NTR (way more than the opposite) and adult games don't need NTR to exist.

 

[tek]

I have to agree with doggy on this and yes i've prob been around as long if not a little longer , call me old fashioned i don't care it doesn't cost you anything to have good manners even on an internet forum.

 

[Glew]

A little background.. I've been on the internet pretty regularly since 1997. I had a tower from a builder who taught me how to build them. It was an old Intel 233 or sth. We had to use dial up modem and pray the windows 95 didn't crash. I learned pretty quickly how to use chat boards, usenet, and messengers. I've been a member of several forums and spent quite some time on the chans since then. So I have 20+ years of experience dealing with others on the internet. That's longer than some of you have been alive.
From my perspective.. it seems that as time goes on, people have become ruder, more hostile, less open, and far more aggressive. I can recall how nice it was to get some stuff on 2ch and then chat with a board about this or that japanese game since western games weren't really a thing. Now, you can't do that. I've tried to help someone correct a mistake on a meme but he and his cronies jumped all over me while the moderator turned a blind eye.
That began happening with regularity and it's pointing to what I perceive is a decay of common courtesy. Civility, dignity, strength are all cast aside in the name of "ME SO BAD!". It's getting ridiculous. I understand the need to tell a developer that this or that doesn't work or there's errors. I also understand that the developer needs to hear WHY.
How fucking hard is it to leave a comment where you SPECIFICALLY state what it is that bothers you?? Listen, if you can't say anything besides "You suck. Me angry", this is how I see you- I see you as too stupid to make a coherent statement, too emotionally shallow to think beyond the moment, and worst of all, a sign of the decay of society. Which do you want to be? A waste of space or a contribution to society? Your call!

I sign this way! Oh man these were times Windows 95 was the scary and the dial up modems for hours could not call me because I was on the internet.XD

 

[sansusername]

What feedback do you think people should give if not their honest one?

"I wish this wouldn't have happened," or "I was hoping that X", or even "This thing bothers me a lot, so I'm out."

Not "this game is ruined." and especially not "I'm going to talk trash on the dev team now in this thread forever more and also on any thread that I see their name on." I see that one happening recently too.

If the developer stops working because of that .... It just proves that he does not have what is needed for this job.

I disagree. A lot of these people are just random people out there who want to have fun making a sexual game, telling a story that they have fantasized in their head. Tearing them down doesn't just weed out the weak, it prevents someone who may have developed themselves into an awesome story teller or game designer from feeling like it's worth continuing.

In short, do not complain about constructive comments when your own discussions do not bring anything.

Not the same, but you are making a good point. I'm not changing minds here (probably). But I'm also not attacking an individual person on this site telling them that they suck at what they're doing and making them want to give up.

I understand the need to tell a developer that this or that doesn't work or there's errors. I also understand that the developer needs to hear WHY.
How fucking hard is it to leave a comment where you SPECIFICALLY state what it is that bothers you??

Seriously! These kinds of comments help the devs learn and do better down the line, so why wouldn't we want that? I fear that a day will come soon when most of these projects will just die off. We'll be left with a few really good devs making things, but they won't be posted here for free anymore. They'll make their way to Steam with patches for sale to get the nudity back in, or over at nutaku where they can add in micro transactions. Either way, we'll be left with 2 things: Expensive/Pay games, or shit the quality of Newgrounds a decade ago. @muttdoggy I think I'm one of those old heads on here with you, I remember using windows 3.1 and the upgrade to 95. I remember our first Dial Up connection way back around that time too, and how god awful the internet was back then.
Gifs. Gifs everywhere.

What incest have to do with your point ?

Probably nothing, honestly. I was just reading the threads for Freeloading Family and for Long Live the Princess. Both are games that I thought were going to be enormous hits on here. The former has been attacked with that dreaded "NTR" comments for a while now, even though for the life of me I don't see the scenes as NTR. With LLTP, i'm seeing people pissed off that there is an optional way to go after your sister or choose not to. Like, what the fuck is that about? It's optional. And there are a lot of other girls in that game you can go after. I saw LLTP go from having people give pretty much 100% positive feedback to the dev of that one take serious shit non stop since adding that.

Or perhaps do you imply that an incestuous relationship never can be consensual and always imply corruption/blackmail/brainwashing, perhaps because you think it never happen in real life ?

nope, never said anything like that lol. i just mean that i see the most harsh feedback happen in these games when the "NTR" is happening with an incest character.

 

[redknight00]

I don't think making a tread about is helping much either or that incest has anything to do with it, but on the other hand the hardcore ntr-haters are the only people I see consistently roasting devs over it, down voting treads and reporting their games.

 

[baka]

i dont give a crap what people feel or like, but i hate it when they affect devs in a negatively way.
no matter what fetish or story, i want the dev(s) to do what he want to do, its his "inspiration and motivation" i want to protect. constructive criticism should be about the game flow, spelling mistakes, rendering quality, but not about the "fetish and the main story". sure, if the dev asks for it, he is stuck and need help with the plot.
so, when i read post after post from egocentric kids that want to change everything to what they like and they want it now, i feel frustrated. we are in an "adult" forum but it doesn't feel like that.

 

[User_51567]

I don't think making a tread about is helping much either or that incest has anything to do with it, but on the other hand the hardcore ntr-haters are the only people I see consistently roasting devs over it, down voting treads and reporting their games.

Indeed.
And if i'm being honest, i am the first one to say that i abolutely hate NTR..
Will i go on a topic to ask if there is NTR in a game or how Heavy it is.... 100% yes..
And i will stand by the fact that Forced NTR in Incest games is a dead-sentence for your game and i will go on and say that it would be better for that game to have/make the NTR Optional... That way you won't kick the Incest fans in the balls and you still have the NTR fans for you.

However...
Assaulting a Dev, reporting a Dev or even downvoting a Dev simply because you don't agree with his content is just childish and weak.... But we al know that a large percentage of (new)people who come to this site are only her to grab a next release of a game, bitch about, and ask stupid questions.... Or as i like to call them "The Horny Horde of Idiots"
The people that think that everything in the world is about them and that all the games are made for them and they have a right to complain even though they don't pay for it.

A normal discussion is fine for me.
Do you love NTR... Fine.. Love to know why.
Do you hate Incest... Fine tell me why...
Do you think that a Dev is milking his Patreons.... Fine tell why .

But people need to remember that Personal Opinions are not Facts.... And everybody has one of their own.
Good for you that you think that people who hate NTR in Incest games are idiots, but i might think that people who like NTR in incest games are Idiots...... That doesn't mean that you or me is wrong....It's just personal preference.

But i'll say it again.
If you want to put NTR in your incest game, make it Optional.... That way you have a Win-Win scenario.
-The people who hate NTR will have no issue.
-The people who Love NTR have what they want.
-The people who don't care about it, still don't care

 

[WhitePhantom]

I'm confused by what you even mean?

So you're saying in a game like Big Brother, none of the other women should do anything with anybody except the MC?
Seems very odd to have 4-5 women not interested in a relationship doesn't it?

I get it in a game like DmD, but you can't just say across the board "nobody should date anybody but me at all in your game" because it'd make it incredibly unbelievable.

 

[sansusername]

Good for you that you think that people who hate NTR in Incest games are idiots, but i might think that people who like NTR in incest games are Idiots

i wasn't saying people who enjoy or hate something are idiots. i was saying that people who hate something so much that they attack the devs are assholes. quite different

 

[Göffel]

So, I am new around here. that also means the "rules" and stuff are still fresh on my mind. (I always read/ skim those on joining)

I take it written rules is one thing, actual handling philosophy of them often another. So I do not (yet) feel in a position to report arse users/ their posts doing this "stalking"/ "me! me! me!" behaviour.
It's not just about NTR. I've seen users posting such idiot comments along whatever their personal preferences or dislikes are ("ew! story. gameplay. we [!] want straight to the porn"), and not just once but keeping going on and on and on about it. With other users then reacting to those egocentric morons / baiters, and wham! a mess. for page after page of topic.

So, shall we report such stuff or not? When someone consistently stalks a game's topic in that way?
Do mods have the time, will, nerve to act about these things?
------------------

@muttdoggy - you probably know already, but just in case: to relax from such environment/ behaviour, you could try to find a community* around relaxed subject, where it has above certain threshold of female members - not sure maybe at least 1/3rd, and/ or below certain threshold of male young teenagers.
(* not meaning "go away if you don't like it here", but: additionally, as a place to enjoy some overall more friendly athmosphere from time to time. not that is is particularly bad here, actually find it to be much better than could be expected)

 

[a meme]

I've tried to help someone correct a mistake on a meme

:test2:

A little background.. I've been on the internet pretty regularly since 1997. I had a tower from a builder who taught me how to build them. It was an old Intel 233 or sth. We had to use dial up modem and pray the windows 95 didn't crash. I learned pretty quickly how to use chat boards, usenet, and messengers. I've been a member of several forums and spent quite some time on the chans since then. So I have 20+ years of experience dealing with others on the internet. That's longer than some of you have been alive.
From my perspective.. it seems that as time goes on, people have become ruder, more hostile, less open, and far more aggressive. I can recall how nice it was to get some stuff on 2ch and then chat with a board about this or that japanese game since western games weren't really a thing. Now, you can't do that. I've tried to help someone correct a mistake on a meme but he and his cronies jumped all over me while the moderator turned a blind eye.
That began happening with regularity and it's pointing to what I perceive is a decay of common courtesy. Civility, dignity, strength are all cast aside in the name of "ME SO BAD!". It's getting ridiculous. I understand the need to tell a developer that this or that doesn't work or there's errors. I also understand that the developer needs to hear WHY.
How fucking hard is it to leave a comment where you SPECIFICALLY state what it is that bothers you?? Listen, if you can't say anything besides "You suck. Me angry", this is how I see you- I see you as too stupid to make a coherent statement, too emotionally shallow to think beyond the moment, and worst of all, a sign of the decay of society. Which do you want to be? A waste of space or a contribution to society? Your call!

The main issue here is the increasing use of social media. Several issues are caused by this. First of all: the loud minority versus the silent majority. The minority will be religiously campaigning in favour of their viewpoint, while the majority will mostly think "I don't care" or "fuck off" with only a few people actually countering the minority. However, the people who have to act on this (for example a developer) have very little means to distinguish between a majority or a handful of very loud individuals. On the internet, their numbers can be easily manipulated (double accounts, bots, ...).

Second issue stemming from the rise of social media is that your opinion has to be as crude as possible to get any attention. You can look at this forum for some good examples. Post 1: "This game would be so much better with NTR!" gets replies. Post 2: <discussing the game> will barely get any replies. This and perceived anonimity is the cause of increased rudeness on the internet.

Third issue is sheep/herd mentality. Nowadays, there are even companies and countries who bank on this (best example is the Russian influence in the American election). Social media made it very easy for a handful of people to manipulate the general concensus on certain topics. Best example from this forum is the Big Brother "NTR" story. Every thinking person can conclude that "your mum seeing a new dude after her divorce" isn't NTR and that the NTR scripted in the game was merely a form of competition to make the game interesting and avoidable when played correctly. However, due to the campaigning of a few individuals, the general concensus (debatable if you consider my first point) completely turned around, forcing the developer to abandon his script.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Not "this game is ruined." and especially not "I'm going to talk trash on the dev team now in this thread forever more and also on any thread that I see their name on." I see that one happening recently too.
[...]
I just mean that i see the most harsh feedback happen in these games when the "NTR" is happening with an incest character.

Well, the answer is both here :

From my perspective.. it seems that as time goes on, people have become ruder, more hostile, less open, and far more aggressive. I can recall how nice it was to get some stuff on 2ch and then chat with a board about this or that japanese game since western games weren't really a thing. Now, you can't do that. I've tried to help someone correct a mistake on a meme but he and his cronies jumped all over me while the moderator turned a blind eye.

and here :

However...
Assaulting a Dev, reporting a Dev or even downvoting a Dev simply because you don't agree with his content is just childish and weak.... But we al know that a large percentage of (new)people who come to this site are only her to grab a next release of a game, bitch about, and ask stupid questions.... Or as i like to call them "The Horny Horde of Idiots"
The people that think that everything in the world is about them and that all the games are made for them and they have a right to complain even though they don't pay for it.

For the context, I'm a little older than @muttdoggy, while a little younger on the net than him.
Is it really a question of generation, or because we were on the net before it became a big rush for money, I don't know. But what is sure is that we were some kind of hippy-tech generation, trying to spread love and knowledge all over the different parts of the network. Like muttdoggy implied, we were also here to help and happy to do so. And don't expect to correct them, even when they're wrong ; they know better than you, they are better than you, always :/
Paradoxically, while we were here when the net was referred as "virtual world", we (almost) all acted with other like we do IRL. Whatever it was an anon site or a place where using is real name was the rule, we never forgot that we were facing human beings.
Now the net is part of the "real world", Instagram, snapchat, tinder, tweeter, people use it all day long, most of the time without even realizing that they use it. And, still paradoxically, it's now that this isn't anymore virtual, that they also don't care about the other, acting like they were the only human being involved in the discussion.
The best example of the difference is probably /b/. It's the place where Anonymous started. Be kind with everybody, help the weaker, do your best to create a better world. And look what it is now, hate, hate and hate everywhere. The /b/stards were better humans than the old fags will never be.

But here you're on F95. A community which, more or less, still resist to the temptation. It's not without reason that the number of moderators have increased this much lately. Report the hate comments. We are more numerous than them, even if it's not always an obviousness, they will have enough to their little play before we have enough to report them.
It's like any other plague. The more you let it install itself in the place, the more you'll let it spread and contaminate the said place. But if you, if we act, if when they come here for the first time, they see that they're almost alone, they'll not stay long.
Hate have no place here, so, report, report and report. Oh, and by the way, don't try to defend the dev, at least not by spreading the hate you feel regarding the "horny horde of idiots", it will never solve the problem.