I'm a begginer! Plase help!

Aug 3, 2020
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Hello everyone!
I'm looking forward to making my own game, since I can't find anyone who scratches my itches.
Was thinking to make a game similar to the asylum by darktoz.
I've been experimenting with RPG Maker and I think I can use it, at least to start.
The problem is, I'm not an artist at all. I'm not sure how am I supposed to make cutscenes, cinematics,
models, and such.
Right now it's feeling overwhelming.
Does anyone here have an advice for a project like this?
 

Laikhent

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Most non-artists here use Daz or Honey Select to produce the images/animations for their games.
When dealing with overwhelming complex tasks, you should note them down and break them into simpler tasks until they don't feel overwhelming anymore.
 

79flavors

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This is my usual go to advice for new developers without an artistic background...
https://f95zone.to/threads/a-questi...-doing-the-images-and-code.71453/post-4947970

Though you can probably swap "RenPy" for "RPGMaker" and "Daz3D" for "HoneySelect" or "Emotion Creator" depending on your goals.

And yeah. Building the pyramids was hard - but if you focus on just the one stone in front of you, it's still hard - but manageable. My post above is just my way of breaking things down a bit into slightly more manageable blocks.

Plus if you do start using Daz, a reminder that a "try before you buy" style download scheme is available here on F95. :devilish:
https://f95zone.to/latest/#/cat=assets/page=1/prefixes=33/sort=rating

Maybe read this first though.
https://f95zone.to/threads/how-to-install-content-to-daz-w-w-o-install-manager.6045/
 
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Aug 3, 2020
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Glad I could help.

I forgot to mention that, if you want a more anime like feel, you can also use "Emotion Creators" to generate your images/animations.
I prefer a realistic tone overall. That's probably harder to achieve, though. Maybe it would be easier to have an overall better quality in an anime style, I don't know
 
Aug 3, 2020
35
31
This is my usual go to advice for new developers without an artistic background...
https://f95zone.to/threads/a-questi...-doing-the-images-and-code.71453/post-4947970

Though you can probably swap "RenPy" for "RPGMaker" and "Daz3D" for "HoneySelect" or "Emotion Creator" depending on your goals.

And yeah. Building the pyramids was hard - but if you focus on just the one stone in front of you, it's still hard - but manageable. My post above is just my way of breaking things down a bit into slightly more manageable blocks.

Plus if you do start using Daz, a reminder that a "try before you buy" style download scheme is available here on F95. :devilish:
https://f95zone.to/latest/#/cat=assets/page=1/prefixes=33/sort=rating

Maybe read this first though.
https://f95zone.to/threads/how-to-install-content-to-daz-w-w-o-install-manager.6045/
Thanks dude!
I'll try out what you say. I have work for days just with that
 

AnimeKing314

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Since it hasn't been asked yet, what kind of graphics card do you have? If it isn't a fairly high end one then daz will create a huge bottleneck for you and you'll spend hours to make a single scene and days to make a single animation. I understand the appeal of the realism that daz offers and in the hands of someone experienced and with a good system it's definitely prefered. Unfortunately for newer people you're almost certainly going to have models that fall into the uncanny valley. If you want to be able to make scenes much faster even on limited hardware I highly suggest looking at koikatsu. It's an earlier game from the same company that made honey select but there's a lot more mods available for it.
 

Deleted member 1121028

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The problem is, I'm not an artist at all. I'm not sure how am I supposed to make cutscenes, cinematics,
models, and such.
Don't sweat it. One stone after another.
Whatever you choose don't ever stop, keep practicing.
 

AnimeKing314

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It's maybe the most overused concept any crank use but its another debate lmao.
Not sure what you mean by this, it's quite a real phenomenon and daz is realistic enough that if you aren't perfect with it then it'll trigger the response and your game will be off-putting to a lot of people. I was more focussed on the hardware aspect of daz because people are always quick to suggest it without knowing what limitations the person's system has (not necessarily the case here but was worth mentioning anyway) but figured I'd mention that as well because I've seen a lot of people that don't know about it.
 

anne O'nymous

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[...] daz is realistic enough that if you aren't perfect with it then it'll trigger the response and your game will be off-putting to a lot of people.
Then, why a game like WVM, that have bellow the average renders, have more success than games like Heavy Five or The DeLuca Family, by example, where the renders are near to the top in terms of quality ?
The truth is that people don't care this much about the efforts you'll put in the visual part. As long as it's not horrible, it's not what will decide if you succeed or not.
 

AnimeKing314

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Then, why a game like WVM, that have bellow the average renders, have more success than games like Heavy Five or The DeLuca Family, by example, where the renders are near to the top in terms of quality ?
The truth is that people don't care this much about the efforts you'll put in the visual part. As long as it's not horrible, it's not what will decide if you succeed or not.
The effect isn't in the quality of the renders but in the quality of the models and how they behave or are perceived. There's no difference between a 1080p render with terrible lighting and a 4k render with amazing lighting when talking about the uncanny valley. Plus the effect itself isn't the only measure of success for a game, it's one factor. Don't think for a second that it won't have an effect though. Most of the games where you see complaints popping up about the models or even that just don't do as well as you'd think because "they have better renders than xyz game" can probably be attributed to the uncanny valley. Also in the case of this specific effect, having you're models look far less human makes it easier to avoid the effect than having them be more human so all that effort you put into the visuals to make your models look super lifelike does more to hurt you. Really, at least do some basic reading up on the topic before trying to argue it.
 

Deleted member 1121028

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Before you reach so called ' uncanny ' valley, you need to grasp some realism.
It's already a luxury most can't touch.
You may think that badly shaded mesh is somewhat 'uncanny'. It s not, far from that.
All in all its not very important tho.
 
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anne O'nymous

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The effect isn't in the quality of the renders but in the quality of the models and how they behave or are perceived.
And once again, welcome to WVM and it's action figurine models.


Don't think for a second that it won't have an effect though.
It's not a thought, it's an observation, the same that no__name is trying to make you understand ; people don't care at all about the quality of the visual part, as long as it's not horrible, dot. And doing horrible renders with Daz3D nowadays is an exploit that need to be noted.
So far over the thousands games using Daz3D I only found two that qualify, and less than 100 that are too far bellow the average. Yet, most of them have found their public and are still updated.


All in all its not very important tho.
Totally agree, but he probably can't. He past from Daz3D to Koikatsu because of few comments, so he probably believe that he'd already visited the uncanny valley once. But the fact is that, even a game made with Sims 4 can have some success, and you need to be really bad at it for your own visual to be worse.
 

AnimeKing314

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Totally agree, but he probably can't. He past from Daz3D to Koikatsu because of few comments, so he probably believe that he'd already visited the uncanny valley once. But the fact is that, even a game made with Sims 4 can have some success, and you need to be really bad at it for your own visual to be worse.
Perhaps before assuming my motivations for switching you should read my responses to those comments. I was already considering switching before those comments had even been posted because I wasn't happy with the art myself. When I first started considering all the different software available I tried all of them but was biased towards daz because I liked the style and everywhere I looked people bragged about it being super easy and basically deified it. I actually quite enjoy daz games when they are done well but learned from experience that if you aren't experienced or artistically inclined and/or you don't have a high end expensive machine to do the renders then they turn out pretty terribly and you spend far too much of your time doing them. I know I don't communicate it well but I actually have a lot of respect for the people that make daz models look good because it's not easy.

As far as uncanny valley goes, when I was doing the art I actually did have the sense of something being off about it which was largely why I didn't like my own art. I had assumed at first that it was just because I wasn't skilled or had to do lower quality renders because of hardware limitations but the fact that other people were also put off by the models shows that my models were probably at least somewhat in the valley.

some further reading on the subject since you and no__name still apparently don't fully understand what it is. To summarize the effect, it's when people feel uneasy when they see something near-human. The closer the thing is to human without actually being human the more profound the effect. If you look at the examples in the article, daz models are often far closer to looking human than those examples. And while I can't pull up specific examples right now because I don't tend to save or remember games that I don't like as much I have observed the effect in several games that I've played. A couple to the point that I had to drop the game because it was so unsettling.
 

anne O'nymous

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Perhaps before assuming my motivations [...]
I was wondering if it's was the case, nothing more.


you don't have a high end expensive machine to do the renders then they turn out pretty terribly and you spend far too much of your time doing them.
Everything is relative, especially when it come to the cost of something, but you don't really need an expensive computer to have good enough looking render. What is needed first is to know how to configure Daz. A well configured 10 years old computer can render in less than one hour something better than the best possible computer can do with a pure default configuration. Of course, it will take more time because the computer is old, but even there what will need the most time will be the scene building, not the rendering ; well, unless you follow the full out of the box route and just throw everything on the scene without more thinking.


As far as uncanny valley goes, when I was doing the art I actually did have the sense of something being off about it which was largely why I didn't like my own art. I had assumed at first that it was just because I wasn't skilled or had to do lower quality renders because of hardware limitations but the fact that other people were also put off by the models shows that my models were probably at least somewhat in the valley.
As far as I remember, you renders weren't exceptional, while still being on the average. But at no time you were on the uncanny valley, because at no time your renders looked near to something real ; what isn't a criticism, really few achieve to reach this level of quality, and I'm far to be one of them.
Oh, and also you're confirming what I was wondering. You saw few comments and they confirmed the bad opinion you had regarding the quality of your work. Would have some comments said that your CGs wasn't better, but also not worse, than the average, that it would probably have changed your perception of the reality.


some further reading on the subject since you and no__name still apparently don't fully understand what it is.
Can't tell for no__name , but I perfectly know what it mean. And I stand on my position, it's something that can't be reached on the scene. This simply because there's a prerequisite before you enter the uncanny valley, you need to reach human likeness. But it happen that it's something impossible for games, because they use 3D, not humanoid characters that are filmed ; it would cost a fortune to make such games.

It's wrote everywhere on the link you provided yourself. The uncanny valley describe the feeling we get when facing something that try to pass as a human, but isn't one. And 3D arts don't try to pass as human, they can't even pass as human ; they don't move, they don't talk, they don't react.
Whatever how good can be the artist behind the CG, we know from the start that we aren't seeing humans. And this sole knowledge is enough to keep the uncanny valley far away. This because it's the uncertainty that trigger it. We aren't sure anymore what we are facing, and it trigger a reaction that come from the deepest part of ourselves, a reaction that permit to all our ancestors to survive, and so to us to exist, distrust. We don't necessarily fear what we are facing, but we don't trust it, and our brain stay alert, because it have absolutely no idea of what can possibly happen.
It's also why a small, but obvious, mismatch is generally enough to prevent the uncanny valley effect. It remove the uncertainty. We know what we are facing, and therefore know (globally speaking of course) what can possibly happen. And, obviously, it's why the feeling is almost not perceptible when we are just looking at pictures of the humanoid. We can perhaps not be at ease, but not more than when looking at some disturbing image ; because it's all, there's something disturbing in what we see, but something that can't affect us.

Therefore, like I said above, whatever how good can be the CG of a game, they will never reach the uncanny valley. We know from the start that what we'll see isn't real, and it's just an image on a computer screen. We can think that it's horrible, but we will never feel that it's too real.
 

AnimeKing314

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Bit too much here to unpack all at once so I'll just address the major points.
He past from Daz3D to Koikatsu because of few comments
I was wondering if it's was the case, nothing more.
Here either you were being intentionally misleading with the previous comment or are blatantly lying because you didn't state that you were "wondering" but were stating it as a matter of fact.

Everything is relative, especially when it come to the cost of something, but you don't really need an expensive computer to have good enough looking render. What is needed first is to know how to configure Daz. A well configured 10 years old computer can render in less than one hour something better than the best possible computer can do with a pure default configuration. Of course, it will take more time because the computer is old, but even there what will need the most time will be the scene building, not the rendering ; well, unless you follow the full out of the box route and just throw everything on the scene without more thinking.
That level of configuration is well beyond a beginner and I can say from experience that if there's any guides for it they are well buried. I'm one of those people who is using an older machine and it creates a really frustrating experience for new users.

As far as I remember, you renders weren't exceptional, while still being on the average. But at no time you were on the uncanny valley, because at no time your renders looked near to something real ; what isn't a criticism, really few achieve to reach this level of quality, and I'm far to be one of them.
Oh, and also you're confirming what I was wondering. You saw few comments and they confirmed the bad opinion you had regarding the quality of your work. Would have some comments said that your CGs wasn't better, but also not worse, than the average, that it would probably have changed your perception of the reality.
Most of this is opinion so I'll only address that I was already planning on changing the art before I even did the initial release. The only effect the comments had we're getting me to give koikatsu an actual fair try because initially I had discounted it almost immediately with no real reason.

Can't tell for no__name , but I perfectly know what it mean. And I stand on my position, it's something that can't be reached on the scene. This simply because there's a prerequisite before you enter the uncanny valley, you need to reach human likeness. But it happen that it's something impossible for games, because they use 3D, not humanoid characters that are filmed ; it would cost a fortune to make such games.

It's wrote everywhere on the link you provided yourself. The uncanny valley describe the feeling we get when facing something that try to pass as a human, but isn't one. And 3D arts don't try to pass as human, they can't even pass as human ; they don't move, they don't talk, they don't react.
Whatever how good can be the artist behind the CG, we know from the start that we aren't seeing humans. And this sole knowledge is enough to keep the uncanny valley far away. This because it's the uncertainty that trigger it. We aren't sure anymore what we are facing, and it trigger a reaction that come from the deepest part of ourselves, a reaction that permit to all our ancestors to survive, and so to us to exist, distrust. We don't necessarily fear what we are facing, but we don't trust it, and our brain stay alert, because it have absolutely no idea of what can possibly happen.
It's also why a small, but obvious, mismatch is generally enough to prevent the uncanny valley effect. It remove the uncertainty. We know what we are facing, and therefore know (globally speaking of course) what can possibly happen. And, obviously, it's why the feeling is almost not perceptible when we are just looking at pictures of the humanoid. We can perhaps not be at ease, but not more than when looking at some disturbing image ; because it's all, there's something disturbing in what we see, but something that can't affect us.

Therefore, like I said above, whatever how good can be the CG of a game, they will never reach the uncanny valley. We know from the start that what we'll see isn't real, and it's just an image on a computer screen. We can think that it's horrible, but we will never feel that it's too real.
This all shows that you really don't understand the uncanny valley. It doesn't have to be an actual physical thing in the real world. In fact producers of horror movies and games use the effect on purpose all the time so there are any number of examples of digital art eliciting the response. Also, you say that you just need to create a flaw to avoid it entirely but that also shows an utter lack of understanding. The currently accepted theory for the effect is that it started when both modern humans and earlier humans were around at the same time. The modern humans developed the response to seeing the other species of humans (in other words things that looked close to us but weren't). In other words if the digital art looks human-like but you can tell it isn't human that'll send people to the absolute depths of the valley.

Common things that can cause the effect in something like Daz that prides itself on being "photorealistic": clothing or body parts clipping through things, a lack of emotion behind an expression in a still image, unnatural movements in an animation, etc.

A final statement of conjecture from me and then I'm done with the topic because I'm tired of arguing with people who don't know what they're talking about. I suspect that you have these faulty assumptions about the effect because it doesn't affect you as much as it might other people. Different people are affected differently, some don't have the response at all and others are extremely sensitive to it. So just because you haven't personally noticed the effect in games doesn't mean other people are lying about experiencing it or that it's impossible to experience it in forms other than how it originally evolved.
 

Deleted member 1121028

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Yeap that's what I trought. A broad 'bad taxidermist' concept.
Can't wait to explore neoclacissism and the baroque era with such tiny lens lmao.

Joke aside, I dont mean it's an impossible concept, just it's rather hard for people to reach that point, most will never go that far in fact. Espescially for static images (animation creepyness).

And overall, not a really great concept to begin with (quite lazy tbh).

The currently accepted theory for the effect is that it started when both modern humans and earlier humans were around at the same time. The modern humans developed the response to seeing the other species of humans (in other words things that looked close to us but weren't). In other words if the digital art looks human-like but you can tell it isn't human that'll send people to the absolute depths of the valley.
Oh boy. I wish I live in a world where things are that simple.
 
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