I'm curious about people's opinions about netorare vs netori.

[BlackCatFae]

First of all, this is my first post so I'm sorry if I do anything that I shouldn't be doing. Moving on, I'm someone who doesn't like Netorare (especially in games where you are playing the character being NTR'd) but finds Netori quite enjoyable. Now I went to check the requests a few minutes ago and realized Netori as a tag has been rejected multiple times. Apparently it's been rejected because it's just semantics and isn't a big difference. I'm NOT here to change the mods' opinions but do I want to know what other people in he community think.

TLDR: I think Netori and Netorare (ESPECIALLY when playing a game aside from watching porn/hentai) are massively different fetishes. Do you agree or disagree?

 

[DarthSeduction]

They are massively different. Netori is a sadistic fetish, while Netorare is largely masochistic. Even when Netorare follows the person being stolen it's usually masochistic as it forces them to make tough decisions, often against their will, and shows the character being dominated by the netori both mind and body.

So yes, saying it's a semantic difference is like saying Femdom and Maledom are the same.

 

[obibobi]

Saying it's the same is like saying getting hit in the face with a bat is the same as hitting someone in the face with a bat.

Cheating exists as a tag, Japanese games with a female protagonist who cheats on her partner are often tagged netorare even if we are never made to care about the guy.

 

[eosar]

Disclaimer: This post is my personal opinion at this moment in time. It changes wildly in an irregular manner, so don't quote me on it.

----

When the player identifies with the main character:
Netori is a self-motivational speech.
Netorare is a self-harm technique meant to forcefully trigger a hormone discharge, like an emo cutting themselves.

When the player doesn't identify with any character:
Netori is a pity party.
Netorare is a sadist's wet dream.

Why netori people don't like netorare people:
Netorare fans seem to enjoy watching others in pain or causing it, which makes them dangerous company as you don't know when they might turn on you.

Why netorare people like netori people:
They're easy targets.

---

To compare and attempt to simplify, but succeed in complicating it, the only difference between the two is their position in the same situation. One is the aggressor and the other is the victim.

As an example:
Someone is getting robbed.
Netori means the player is either the robber or an ally of the robber making sure the robbery is a success.
Netorare means the player is either the person being robbed or a friend watching the robbery happen from a helpless position.

Someone who says they like Netorare from the victim's position is a masochist who uses the pain or intense emotional state to get a chemical high.
Someone who says they like Netorare from the robber/aggressor's position actually likes Netori, but either fail to recognize that or enjoy to troll.
Someone who says they like Netori actually mean they like to be the robber/aggressor in a Netorare situation.

In my shitty conclusion, Netori and Netorare are indeed different. Netori is the aggressor, robber, dominant. Netorare is the victim, robbee, submissive. People looking for one or the other want the same situation but from different positions. A lot of netorare fans actually like the netori aspect, while the true masochists are in a minority. And most netori fans fail to realize they like playing the bad guy in a netorare game.

People are weird. Just shake your head, sigh once and move on.

 

[hakarlman]

I'd respectfully suggest to the moderators to add netori tag.

Calling everything netorare is confusing.

There's almost four different categories:

a) netorare (your wife gets stolen from you)
b) netori (you steal other peoples wives)
c) netorase (husband insists his wife sleep with others, husband is in full control mostly)
d) cuckold (you agree to your wifes infidelity and even want to watch, it can be a mutual desire and agreement, not that much different from netorase, but wife may suggest the idea of her sleeping with other guys)

When trying to find games with the above content, the netorare tag is not enough. So you have to rely on more complicated searches which eats more server resources.

 

[DarthSeduction]

I'd respectfully suggest to the moderators to add netori tag.

Calling everything netorare is confusing.

There's almost four different categories:

a) netorare (your wife gets stolen from you)
b) netori (you steal other peoples wives)
c) netorase (husband insists his wife sleep with others, husband is in full control mostly)
d) cuckold (you agree to your wifes infidelity and even want to watch, it can be a mutual desire and agreement, not that much different from netorase, but wife may suggest the idea of her sleeping with other guys)

When trying to find games with the above content, the netorare tag is not enough. So you have to rely on more complicated searches which eats more server resources.

Netorase and Cuckold have a lot more overlap than that. In fact, I've never seen domination style sharing included in NTRS at all. In nearly ever netorase I've read the male is a cuckold. That isn't to say that he doesn't join in, but it does mean that he's getting off in a more masochistic way on the sharing, at least in what I've seen. Now, the way NTRS is defined, it could be more sadistic sharing as well, however, again, I've never really seen it used that way, and I feel that using it that way would be incredibly confusing.

 

[Agent HK47]

I agree that Netori and Netorare are different things. Saying that they are the same, is like saying that 2 men having sex, is the same thing as 2 lesbians having sex and that they should appeal to the same audience, because both cases uses 2 people with the same sex.

It doesn't work like that, and we should get the Netori tag, IMO.

 

[BlackCatFae]

I'd respectfully suggest to the moderators to add netori tag.

Calling everything netorare is confusing.

There's almost four different categories:

a) netorare (your wife gets stolen from you)
b) netori (you steal other peoples wives)
c) netorase (husband insists his wife sleep with others, husband is in full control mostly)
d) cuckold (you agree to your wifes infidelity and even want to watch, it can be a mutual desire and agreement, not that much different from netorase, but wife may suggest the idea of her sleeping with other guys)

When trying to find games with the above content, the netorare tag is not enough. So you have to rely on more complicated searches which eats more server resources.

The only reason I didn't say anything about netorase is because I feel like it isn't that common if we're going to be talking about tags.

 

[DarthSeduction]

The only reason I didn't say anything about netorase is because I feel like it isn't that common if we're going to be talking about tags.

depends on how it's applied, I guess. I can think of a few games it might apply to if it's just a blanket sharing=netorase, however if it's only cuckold sharing, then not so much and it would honestly be better to just use cuckoldry to not cause confusion.

 

[Ataios]

I think, it strongly depends on whether you are an immersive player who relates to the MC or not. If you're an immersive player who would refer to his character as "I", they are the exact opposite. If you are a more detached player, who doesn't relate to the player character they are rather similar.

Personally I'm a detached player who likes neither of them nor any other porn genres involving multiple male characters. I would however like a story about a dominant lesbian stealing the woman (regardless of perspective). In real life im strictly monogamous, I wouldn't ever cheat and neither would I forgive cheating under any circumstances.

 

[whiskeyrose]

I think they're worlds different. I find Netorare a huge turn off, and will avoid it if possible. I'll sometimes enjoy content if they don't make a big deal out of humiliating the partner, and it's more the heroine going banana's behind his back without him the wiser.

Netori is worlds different for me. I think it's the caveman mentality that if you play as a male MC, that you're the alpha having sex with whomever you please. Any game where you knock a character up and her husband doesn't know is just the best. Granted the other way around where your partner is knocked up by someone else is just the pits.

 

[Segnbora]

Personally, I'd prefer to see all the genres to which NTR could apply redefined using Western terms, and then restrict the application of any of the Japanese terms to games with a demonstrated understanding of the subtleties of the concepts. Use cuckold/cheating/hotwife/swinging/etc. rather than netorare/netorase/netori.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Personally, I'd prefer to see all the genres to which NTR could apply redefined using Western terms, and then restrict the application of any of the Japanese terms to games with a demonstrated understanding of the subtleties of the concepts. Use cuckold/cheating/hotwife/swinging/etc. rather than netorare/netorase/netori.

The main character of this story is a boy of 12. His father either left or passed away long ago. His single mother has been diligent, working hard to keep food on the table, help him with his studies, keep up the house, etc. She's the model mother, maybe even greater than anyone could expect. But one day, she gets hurt. Maybe it's a car accident, maybe it's something work related, but regardless, she's hurt bad enough that the doctors prescribe her some sort of opiate pain killer. She eventually gets back to work, and things seem to be normal, but, something has changed.

She's grown addicted to pain killers, and at first, it's not too bad, stretching the budget a little thin allows her to keep up her new habit, while still being supermom, however, her tolerance increases, and with it, her need for more. The food budget gets really thin, instead of nice, healthy meals, boxed foods that are cheap and barely nutritional fill the cupboards. What's more, time, she doesn't have any to spare if she wants to get high, and so she gives less attention to her son's studies.

Eventually things get even worse, she starts neglecting work, gets a rough boyfriend who keeps her high and uses her as he pleases. The son is constantly missing meals now, his health is declining, his sleep is interrupted by his mother's naughty screams. Eventually, the boyfriend is bored of her though, things get even worse, she is unemployed, forced to turn tricks to pay for her habit. She lashes out at the kid, they lose their family home and end up in a really small flat. You get the picture by now.

This story is for all intents and purposes one of Netorare. The boy has a relationship consisting of a bond of trust with his mother, that of the maternal variety. The introduction of opiates into her life steals his mother from him, perverting the bond between them, breaking it, making it so that he can no longer recognize his mother in this woman. That is netorare. There's no need for cheating. No need for cuckoldry. No need for any of the specific sexual tags you proposed. And that's the major issue with how people view NTR in general. They think NTR is about a single act, about a single emotion. But no, NTR is a theme, it's an overarching journey. You can't replace NTR with english tags because we don't have a word for this.

 

[Ataios]

One thing I wonder is: Where are fans of either genre on the LGBT spectrum? As a straight man, I find it quite hard to imagine, that a straight man has a fetish involving multiple male characters (or other men but himself in RL). On the other hand, the protagonist usually starts in relationship with a woman. Does this make male fans of both genres bisexual? For female fans it seems easier to answer: straight with an extreme form of sadism. Or am I getting something wrong?

PS: Remember this is a only a question to fans of either genre, not meant to provoke or insult someone.

 

[Segnbora]

This story is for all intents and purposes one of Netorare. The boy has a relationship consisting of a bond of trust with his mother, that of the maternal variety. [...] That is netorare.

You're correct, and were this a game it would have earned the tag, but you know as well as I do that it won't be tagged that way because we've allowed NTR to be defined as shorthand for cheating in the mind of the general audience. Undoing this misconception won't be easy or quick, but one way to begin the long process is to stop tagging games that have infidelity of any type as having NTR unless they actually do.

You can't replace NTR with english tags because we don't have a word for this.

Do we need one, though? This is a serious question. Is this a tag that needs to exist for adult games/comics/etc.? I don't mean for those instances where it actually applies, 99.99999% of which are Japanese. I mean for English games. We don't have a depression tag. An ennui tag. A psychopathy tag. A jealousy tag, which is probably as close as we get in English (and which only gets at half of the concept). As a description of something that a potential player of a non-Japanese game that has likely just slapped the NTR tag onto a game because one of the NPCs can have sex with someone other than the MC, is it actually serving any filtering or categorizing purpose, or is it just generating hundreds of "is this avoidable?" posts in the game's thread? I'd argue the latter. I think we should stop using it. I'd be in favor of (back to the original post) allowing netorare/netori/netorase tags, because those are specific and people are unlikely to deploy them unless they know what they mean. But no more blanket NTR tagging.

 

[DarthSeduction]

You're correct, and were this a game it would have earned the tag, but you know as well as I do that it won't be tagged that way because we've allowed NTR to be defined as shorthand for cheating in the mind of the general audience. Undoing this misconception won't be easy or quick, but one way to begin the long process is to stop tagging games that have infidelity of any type as having NTR unless they actually do.


Do we need one, though? This is a serious question. Is this a tag that needs to exist for adult games/comics/etc.? I don't mean for those instances where it actually applies, 99.99999% of which are Japanese. I mean for English games. We don't have a depression tag. An ennui tag. A psychopathy tag. A jealousy tag, which is probably as close as we get in English (and which only gets at half of the concept). As a description of something that a potential player of a non-Japanese game that has likely just slapped the NTR tag onto a game because one of the NPCs can have sex with someone other than the MC, is it actually serving any filtering or categorizing purpose, or is it just generating hundreds of "is this avoidable?" posts in the game's thread? I'd argue the latter. I think we should stop using it. I'd be in favor of (back to the original post) allowing netorare/netori/netorase tags, because those are specific and people are unlikely to deploy them unless they know what they mean. But no more blanket NTR tagging.

I am making a game with NTR in it, so yes, we do. But I would agree, the first step in getting it used correctly is to stop people form screaming NTR whenever Scarlett Johanssen kisses a character on screen.

 

[Segnbora]

Sure, and your game's terrific, but you're one of the very few who uses the tag correctly. That said, would it really harm anything if you had to spell out what forms of NTR your game included rather than use the universal tag?

 

[DarthSeduction]

Sure, and your game's terrific, but you're one of the very few who uses the tag correctly. That said, would it really harm anything if you had to spell out what forms of NTR your game included rather than use the universal tag?

Oh I'd much rather have all the NTR tags... that said I'm fine with abbreviating them NTR, NTRS, and NTL for Netorare, Netorase, and Netori respectively. As to tagging, I could use a cheating tag, but that wouldn't tell people who are looking for netorare that they would find it.

 

[freedom.call]

It's all the same to me, and Greek. It's amazing that no consensus can be reached on this.

 

[DarthSeduction]

It's all the same to me, and Greek. It's amazing that no consensus can be reached on this.

the problem is that people think a concensus needs to be reached at all. It either is NTR or it isn't. A large group of people who are demonstrably wrong have highjacked a word they don't understand and changed it so that it no longer has any meaning...

Holy fuck... the word NTR has been NTRd