I'm curious about people's opinions about netorare vs netori.

[freedom.call]

the problem is that people think a concensus needs to be reached at all. It either is NTR or it isn't. A large group of people who are demonstrably wrong have highjacked a word they don't understand and changed it so that it no longer has any meaning...

Let's call it a work in progress. Consensus doesn't have to be reached, agreed. The odd thing is from what I can tell (I'm no expert) very few seem to know what the hell they're talking about. I'm including myself in case there are smartasses in the thread.

 

[Ataios]

I also heard either term for the first time on this forum. I've heard the word 'cuckold' before but wouldn't have imagined it could be a fetish. The idea, that someone is aroused by the thought of his girlfriend having sex with another man is just too alien for me to comprehend.

 

[punkmage]

Definitely not a netorare fan, but I'm also not a big fan of netori if the person your stealing away from is a friend or established good guy in game, for example in summertime saga you can screw over Eric (the best friend) by going after June despite knowing he would be better off if you didn't (there's probably a better example out there). I'm alright though if the person you're screwing over isn't really brought up much or is established to be an asshole.

 

[Ataios]

The main character of this story is a boy of 12. His father either left or passed away long ago. His single mother has been diligent, working hard to keep food on the table, help him with his studies, keep up the house, etc. She's the model mother, maybe even greater than anyone could expect. But one day, she gets hurt. Maybe it's a car accident, maybe it's something work related, but regardless, she's hurt bad enough that the doctors prescribe her some sort of opiate pain killer. She eventually gets back to work, and things seem to be normal, but, something has changed.

She's grown addicted to pain killers, and at first, it's not too bad, stretching the budget a little thin allows her to keep up her new habit, while still being supermom, however, her tolerance increases, and with it, her need for more. The food budget gets really thin, instead of nice, healthy meals, boxed foods that are cheap and barely nutritional fill the cupboards. What's more, time, she doesn't have any to spare if she wants to get high, and so she gives less attention to her son's studies.

Eventually things get even worse, she starts neglecting work, gets a rough boyfriend who keeps her high and uses her as he pleases. The son is constantly missing meals now, his health is declining, his sleep is interrupted by his mother's naughty screams. Eventually, the boyfriend is bored of her though, things get even worse, she is unemployed, forced to turn tricks to pay for her habit. She lashes out at the kid, they lose their family home and end up in a really small flat. You get the picture by now.

This story is for all intents and purposes one of Netorare. The boy has a relationship consisting of a bond of trust with his mother, that of the maternal variety. The introduction of opiates into her life steals his mother from him, perverting the bond between them, breaking it, making it so that he can no longer recognize his mother in this woman. That is netorare. There's no need for cheating. No need for cuckoldry. No need for any of the specific sexual tags you proposed. And that's the major issue with how people view NTR in general. They think NTR is about a single act, about a single emotion. But no, NTR is a theme, it's an overarching journey. You can't replace NTR with english tags because we don't have a word for this.

So, it's also NTR without cheating, if the victim is humiliated? E.g. if someone rapes his enemy's mother in the most humiliating and cruel fashion imaginable in order to humiliate the enemy (who did not have an incest relationship)?

 

[DarthSeduction]

So, it's also NTR without cheating, if the victim is humiliated? E.g. if someone rapes his enemy's mother in the most humiliating and cruel fashion imaginable in order to humiliate the enemy (who did not have an incest relationship)?

The rape itself isn't enough. It has to result in changing the mother and son relationship in such a way that it doesn't recover. Most stories make "mind break" pretty easy, and so a mind broken raped mother who now is just a depraved slut, could be NTR, but, generally I'd ask for a longer earned corruption if that's what they want to do. In the end, the son can no longer see his mother in the pathetic cock hungry flesh that bears her resemblance.

NTR is less about the act, and more about the tragedy.

Edit: On that note, the son's mind could also break, he could go from being a loving son, to lusting after her, or have massive ptsd flashbacks from being forced to see her like that which push him away. But again, what's important is the tragic change to their relationship, not the act itself.

 

[Segnbora]

Following on what DarthSeduction wrote, it's always important to remember that netorare (which is what most people are asking/bickering/complaining about when they deploy the dreaded NTR in a discussion) isn't necessarily about sex and certainly doesn't require sex, but more relevantly it isn't about the sex the designated lust object is having or who she's having it with. Your girlfriend/wife/DLO getting poled by someone other than you/the MC isn't netorare. Netorare arises from how you/the MC feel about it.

 

[DarthSeduction]

I really have to make clear, your/MC's feelings are all the equation in cuckoldry, they're only 1/3 of the equation in NTR.

 

[Segnbora]

But they're a necessary part. Without it there's no netorare.

 

[RedPillBlues]

Its easy, almost no one, at least no one I've ever seen, is bothered by netori and a lot of people like it. Netorare however is really divisive by nature and is unplayable to a lot of people, whilst having a really dedicated fan base. As for me Netori does nothing for me in most situations, but its never unwelcome. Netorare is really hit or miss for me, in some game I can enjoy it, whilst in others I have quit games because of it.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Just as a reminder so that when I use the letters everyone is clear on my meaning.

A is in a relationship with B, and C comes to steal B causing a fundamental change, perverting or destroying the relationship.

But they're a necessary part. Without it there's no netorare.

The feelings associated with NTR are the least effective at differentiating NTR from its contemporaries. You can feel jealousy and betrayal at your girlfriend saying another guy is attractive. But that doesn't mean you've been NTRd. You will feel jealousy and betrayal at your girlfriend cheating on you with another man, but that doesn't make it NTR.

Lets try to put it in a different context from what we're used to seeing.

NTR is to Chemical change as Cheating is to Physical change.​

​

Physical Change

A physical change is a change in the state of matter, solid, liquid, gas, plasma... Water can be changed, frozen, into ice, but apply heat and it will become water once again.​

​

Chemical Change

A chemical change is different, once a chemical change is undergone, it cannot go back to it's original state. The example of a chemical change I was given in early science classes was Bread becoming Toast. You put the bread in the toaster and it comes out toasted, you can never reconstitute that toast into fresh bread.​

This is why A's feelings are so inconsequential when talking about what NTR is. A can feel jealous, or betrayed in a situation in which some chad Ice C comes by and chills his girl into Ice like him, but, with the right attitude, he can melt her back and they'll be fine. But if instead C changes her into something completely different, A can no longer have that relationship back. The feelings are the same. The difference is finality, tragedy, futility. NTR isn't about A's feelings, it's about A's and B's relationship being changed by C. Because of that, the story doesn't even need A beyond their mere existence. We don't need to walk in A's shoes, we don't need to discover, as A, what B and C are doing. We merely need to see the change occur, whether A is aware of it or not.

Intellectually, the audience will always understand, assuming it's been written properly, how A would feel, but that's what you bring to it. It doesn't have to be in the text.

This lack of rigidity makes it harder for people to rationalize. They want it to be easy, to say "A feels jealous so it's NTR," but it's much more complicated than A's feelings.

 

[Ataios]

As far as porn games go, I do have to say, that both are rather familiar to me, being a non-immersive player. They are like other genres involving multiple males, such as gangbang or mmf threesome: kind of "eeeehhhww" and certainly nothing that could ever arouse me, but not that disturbing either. Hypothetically speaking though, if there was a netorare game with a protagonist I could relate to, I'd find it extremely repulsive. On the other hand I might find an immersive netori game satisfying in a strictly non-sexual fashion. Therefore it would need an antagonist I could truely hate though, so much that death would be too mercyful. Lesbian versions are something completely different though and quite sexy to me as long as the lesbian is stealing the woman from the guy and not the other way round.

 

[Deleted member 1839424]

Netorare is very very very very Better...

 

[Deleted member 1706148]

 

[Deleted member 229118]

I agree with you.
There is a big difference.
I really dislike how they put mind break under mind control.
Or how being under the effect of an arousal drug is considered mind control......

I believe they need to expand there tag list.
For example:
https://f95zone.to/threads/sansha-m...oukyou-no-gakuen-immoral-edition-bishop.6804/
Is mind break not mind control.
When i reported it i got contact claiming the guy broke woman into sex toys thus it was mind control.
I wanted to strangle the guy for being so wrong but it shows perfectly just how limeted there viewpoint is.
https://f95zone.to/threads/lab-rats-2-v0-22-1-vren.7260/
Has no incest tag despite having incest.

I find that most games with the ntr tag refer to cheating instead of ntr.

Most games tag are accurate but the nuance's are shoved into one tag.
Alot of mind control games lack mind control.
The lab rat serries in a good example of this.
It shoud have the drug and corruption tag's but not mind control.
What you are doing in the games is conditioning(corruption tag) via the use of drug(drug's tag)

Mind break is the act of breaking a person then retraining it.
Mind control is taking control of a persons remote* mind and body.

While i dont care much for ntr i do dislike seeing it missused.
Seeing it put on games where it doesnt belong.

*To prevent confusion with possesion.

 

[Mnotia]

Im a vanilla fucker so I dont really like either but netorare seems more fucked up then netori. Dont get me wrong their both pretty fucked but ya know....yea.

 

[polywog]

Does it really matter who cheats first? The important thing is that there's cheating happening. Once one opens the door to cheating, invites others into the relationship, the dynamic changes.
You sleep with your friend's wife, he finds out she cheated, so he has to cheat to even the score. First he has to cheat on his wife to balance out for her cheating on him, then second, he has to cheat again to get even with you for cheating on him. Now he's cheated his wife twice, and she's not gonna stand for that, so she's gotta one up him, so she cheats three times "top that, you dirty cheater" so he does, he goes out and finds the worst of the worst, brings home 3 of those 8th street hookers. I'll show you.... the game only covers a small window in time of the grand scheme of things

 

[Mania_Zero]

I'm swinging both way...
get it?

 

[User #1751331]

First of all, this is my first post so I'm sorry if I do anything that I shouldn't be doing. Moving on, I'm someone who doesn't like Netorare (especially in games where you are playing the character being NTR'd) but finds Netori quite enjoyable. Now I went to check the requests a few minutes ago and realized Netori as a tag has been rejected multiple times. Apparently it's been rejected because it's just semantics and isn't a big difference. I'm NOT here to change the mods' opinions but do I want to know what other people in he community think.

TLDR: I think Netori and Netorare (ESPECIALLY when playing a game aside from watching porn/hentai) are massively different fetishes. Do you agree or disagree?

Agreed.
It's like Sub vs Dom. Just because you like or are ok doing it to someone else doesn't mean the roles being reversed are ok.
Giving isn't the same as receiving and vice versa.
Frankly, they deserve two separate tags.
That said any description that shows the potential difference in such a manor deserves separate tags.
The role the MC plays is a key factor as to the players enjoyment.

 

[khumak]

I think the way NTR is used on this site is closer to just meaning cheating than any of the specific subcategories of NTR, although the vast majority of it seems to be the wife doing the cheating. Personally I like it when the male MC is doing the cheating but not the other way around.

I also like swinger stuff as long as the male MC is getting at least as much side action as his SO. I don't mind the wife cheating with women, especially if MC gets to watch and/or join in. Unfortunately for me that means I have to dig through a lot of NTR tagged content that I don't like to find the stuff I do.

If the main character is female then none of the above matter to me. If the main character is male I just subconsciously imagine myself as the main character and I don't do that if it's a female. If I just thought of myself as a spectator or puppeteer then I wouldn't care either way.

 

[ChaosOpen]

I think the way NTR is used on this site is closer to just meaning cheating than any of the specific subcategories of NTR, although the vast majority of it seems to be the wife doing the cheating. Personally I like it when the male MC is doing the cheating but not the other way around.

I also like swinger stuff as long as the male MC is getting at least as much side action as his SO. I don't mind the wife cheating with women, especially if MC gets to watch and/or join in. Unfortunately for me that means I have to dig through a lot of NTR tagged content that I don't like to find the stuff I do.

I haven't seen any swinger games that actually was swinging. Most seem to be a ploy by the other couple to steal the MC's wife and turn it into a full-time threesome without the husband getting in the way. For example, the game

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in which the neighbor's plan was basically to train the MC's wife as a gimp they could both dominate in the bedroom, problem is they had to figure out a way to get her to agree to begin her "training." So, they came up with the swinging idea, basically while the MC's wife was having tons of sex and S&M play with the husband, the neighbor's wife basically trapped the MC in celibacy only giving him handjobs, footjobs, and pegging him at one point. Eventually, they have the wife trained, and they say that the "swinging" is over for the MC but the MC's wife will only be having sex with them from now on.