VN Ren'Py Imperial Chronicles [v0.11] [Lazy Monkey]

[Filipis]

Another reason why I can't give the Isis/Aurora comparison as much weigh is that both are used underwhelmingly in the story. They are forced on the MC due arranged marriage, instead of coming to him organically and naturally. As outsiders, they have no knowledge and effect on the internal family politics, which the game tends to focus on. And regarding romances, they are fairly impersonal and secondary to the four incest choices, the main love interests in the game.

Could change if MC travels and interacts with the North and South, but as of now, they are very much trophy wife's and breeding machines in every aspect.

It's the old tale of my main discontent with the game, that it gives not so much the illusion of choice, but the illusion of consequences and danger. The only one being able to ruin lives is almost always MC. People praise the game with the Game of Thrones comparison, a ruthless brutal political plot of backstabbing and betrayal, but rarely anyone dies outside of MCs control. If he refuses to work with Cass, she very much asks MC to kill her and at worst she imprisons MC, which is ultimately an inconsequential punishment. Iris also talks a big game, but it can only unfold if MC gives her permission to. Man, what a dangerous and unpredictable character indeed.

The game would take the player, used by power fantasy harem games with effectively no opposition, out of their comfort zone, if the NPCs would actually have agency.

Say, Iris always kills Cass if MC decided to marry her and gets imprisoned. A bunch of people would seethe, but wouldn't that give your choice weight and the NPCs give agency? And instead of losing your mind over it, players can either take the loss or try again and marry Aurora or don't get imprisoned on the next run. That would be more in line with making choices that matter and interacting with characters that make decisions not entirely in our control.

But meh, who wants to be challenged, face difficulties and possibly LOSE in a video game???

This is a very astute observation about the game. And you are right, the game is rife with choices, but there are no terrible consequences just yet - and that could be mainly because accounting for them could make the game 'un-developable'.

The example with Isis poisoning Cass is actually a fantastic idea I might incorporate into my IC: Definitive Edition remake, but you are right on the money that it would make a LOT of players uncomfortable.

I think Isis/Aurora stuff will become more important as time goes on, but it can never be too important, as they represent and require drastically different scenarios to fully explore (one is North, the other South) - imagine if LM decides to make an update solely based on MC visiting the North/South areas of the Continent... that would be a dangerous precedent I would not be comfortable with (an update dedicated only to one path).

Do you recall the fiasco of the Coup update? If you avoided the Coup entirely, you were shit out of luck and didn't get to play a whole-ass update. I don't want that to happen to anybody ever again.

It may result in a more "sterile" environment in the end, but such is the nature of following along with the development of the game.

 

[7_lJzWy3XxoEyow7]

40%
View attachment 5199021

I love that belly ... so much
But who is this ... its not on my path ^^

 

[storm1105]

Ah okay, we saw it in a vision. So it MUST be true then, seems legit...

Makes more sense than suggesting that she's going to try to murder us because of a character from a completely different series

How can you honestly even debate that Isis would be less trouble or give less drama. Than fucking Aurora...There is just no way

Which one of them likes to fuck with people, and scheme in her own free time, JUST to alleviate some of her own boredom??

Neither of them. That's my point. The only time we've actually seen Isis do any scheming is when Elis asks her to kill Cass. Other than that all she's done is tell Elis that she wants to make him Emeperor and will garuntee that their child will be heir to the south inspite of her older brothers. And it's not that I'm debating that Isis will have less drama than Aurora it's that we don't have any real evidence that Isis is going to cause any drama in the first place.

Well yes, isn't that the whole point of that arc with both of the brides. You get a first impression of them, and then you spend some time with both of them. And then you have to pick. And IMO, Isis raises too many red flags in those moments alone, The being snappy with Aurora at breakfast (needing to start drama), or just look at Ahara's reaction to her as soon as she finds out who she is...what with the hyperventilating and complete panic at the thought of being discovered after her family was killed by Isis's.

Ahara reaction is because of her family being ruthless and not because of her personally. Elis even points this out and mentions that Isis would have been only a child when talking about when this happens. This would be like another character being scared of Elis just beceause of his grandfather.

Her own admissions that she will have your bastards killed, Ahara's reaction to hearing her family name, and telling you that they're all monsters who had her family killed. The fact that she likes to scheme and plot to cure her own boredom.

Again Ahara reaction to her family is a pretty faulty argument. She doesn't know Isis personally and Isis was to young to have done anything. There is also way more reasons to try to kill the old regime than there would be to kill random peasants who might be the king's bastard. If anything the fact that Isis knew about Ahara and didn't really care is evidence against your point. Isis also mentions that Ahara's family was exteremly cruel and that the peasants were ready to beat them to death and torture them.

So let me put it this way. Are you honestly going to tell me, that if this situation was real. And you were Elis. With no MC plot armour, or any idea how anything was going to end up. And no guarantee that every choice would work out. That you would choose Isis for being the better pick for your wife?

There's no garuntee that either choose would work out, but I have literally no reason to think Isis is going to betray them and you haven't provided any evidence either. You just keep claiming she can't because you said she reminds you again, of different characters from different franchises. There is no real reason to trust Aurora either or really anyone around you, Aurora's father fought against Elis's grandfather and only agree to the marriage because all his sons died.

She could end up being loyal. But because I've watched/played enough media set in this kind of fantasy/medieval-esc setting. And the one recurring thing I've learnt is.

I've seen enough fantasy mideval characters to argue that theres not enough evidence either way. There as just as many intrigue focused character who would murder anyone if it benifits the protagonist as there are ones who can backstab them. Caliming that Isis is the later based on no real evidence but vibes is exteremly weak.

Ah fuck it. Whatever you say dude. I've repeatedly proven this wrong, and even given you personality traits she possesses. But if it makes it easier for you to just pretend she has no personality so you can act like she's a worse choice, then you do what you want bro. I'm not gonna keep wasting time trying to show you that you're wrong about her. When you just keep skipping over everything I've said about the topic.

You've never proven me wrong. You just claim you disagree. I don't need to pretend she has no personality so that she's the worse choice, the writing of her character simply just makes her the worse choice. Like I said she's boring she has no agency and she's just there to look pretty and birth children.

Spoiler: As shown here

I'll be honest. I have zero clue how you even got that scene. I did not get that scene at all. Elis neither accuses her of scheming or anything. They just start talking about the trip home, the baby, she gives him a blow job and then bed then tells elis she's going to do everythng she can to help him.

The being snappy with Aurora at breakfast (needing to start drama)

I wouldn't say at all she's starting drama. In my opinion "starting drama" means forcing people to pick fights with Elis or the rest of his family. The only thing that it looked like to me is that she simply decided to challenge her rival

Again, you're basing that off my mistrust of this one character?? How exactly?? I trust enough characters in this game at the moment.

I'm basing it off the fact we have no evidence that Elis is planning to betray elis while we have multiple scenes where she says she's going to help him and does things for the sake of his benifit. So yes I'm saying you're basing this off your mistrust of the character. We have no evidence for what you claim but agian you keep claiming it because you think she reminds you of different characters. Your conrad example is the best example because she does literally the exact opposite in the actual game as what you claim she'd do. So in that case it seems more like baseless paranoia.

 

[dkatryl]

Man, the Aurora vs Isis fans getting after it since I last checked the thread!

I prefer Aurora myself, but i can see why others prefer Isis.

It's kinda like Triss vs Yennifer from W3. I prefer Triss, but I can see why some prefer Yenn. (I only played the games, so the book lore doesng factor in)

 

[GibboBtw]

Okay, I have decided. That you are quite possibly, the most brick wall human being that I've ever chatted to in my life, on this website. You might even be able to give Stanford and Sombrero a run for their money honestly!

But I'm not going to waste anymore time on this with you. You ignore everything I say, and then keep repeating the same shit back to me 20x like a broken record, even when I answer you.

I'll be honest. I have zero clue how you even got that scene. I did not get that scene at all. Elis neither accuses her of scheming or anything. They just start talking about the trip home, the baby, she gives him a blow job and then bed then tells elis she's going to do everythng she can to help him.

And add on the fact that you don't even know the scenes of the woman you're going so hard to bat for. it's actually crazy that I've wasted the time I already have on you. I'm just going to end this here, and let others read and decide who made more sense and who didn't.

 

[storm1105]

, I have decided. That you are quite possibly, the most brick wall human being that I've ever chatted to in my life, on this website. You might even be able to give Stanford and Sombrero a run for their money honestly!

But I'm not going to waste anymore time on this with you. You ignore everything I say, and then keep repeating the same shit back to me 20x like a broken record, even when I answer you.

If it sounds like in relating the same stuff back and over then it's probably because at least half of all your replies are the exact same as what you just said without you really providing evidence or examples. But I addressed everything you said. Even new stuff like the one sided ahara argument whole also ignoring what Elis and Isis both say about it(Isis was to young to be involved and her family killed Ahara because the peasant class wanted them dead) I did not ignore you you disagree and got annoyed because I didn't bend over backwards agreeing with you . The main thing I asked(what evidence is there she's plotting against Elis) you never provided

And add on the fact that you don't even know the scenes of the woman you're going so hard to bat for. it's actually crazy that I've wasted the time I already have on you. I'm just going to end this here, and let others read and decide who made more sense and who didn't.

This is a game with multiple variables. I replayed the scene and that moment never popped up so I asked what variables you used to get that since unlike you I'm actually arguing in good faith. I asked how you got the scene so I could at least get a better understanding of the content as in my runs she just swears she's going to help Elis. You've already dismissed Aurora fear route so I don't know why you are dismissing route differences here

 

[Alan Dalles]

Spoiler: As shown here

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I I asked how you got the scene so I could at least get a better understanding of the content as in my runs she just swears she's going to help Elis.

If I remember correctly, this scene is only for Bookworm path (letters for clan's relatives on southern language with changed detailes - trust exercise)

 

[Craudiao]

But bro, her best interest is keeping Elis strong and alive, Why would she betray him?

On her path she lost ther virginity and is expecting a child, there is no better route than Elis.
Every option is worse than stick with him.

Now, you always have to weigh how fragile the throne is with the MC...
After all, he's the result of an elven conspiracy against the throne. Conrad and Cass have a greater claim to the throne than he does...
So, depending on how everything comes to light and how the people take it, staying with the MC is probably the most dangerous and unstable place...

I see Aurora sinking along with the MC and Isis leaving in a "hopeless" situation.

 

[FalconLover420]

I'm going to put my two cents on the Iris/Aurora debate.
I think both of them are loyal to elis albeit with different methods.

Isis:
Isis works in the shadows whether its keeping elis safe from plots or dirtying her hands if her family is in danger as she was raised in an intrigue court. Plus she mentions that she gave her virginity to Elis (normally an ambitious woman would have lost it already).
Yes, we do get the dialogue about killing Elis's bastards because historically bastards have always been a threat to the true born children for dissatisfied nobles to rally behind. Another one that is used against Isis is the dialogue with the daughter, but we get nothing that implies what she says and is just provoking her mother plus the children are being raised with intrigue and the son with martial/intrigue.

Aurora:
She is the supporting wife and doesn't involve herself in intrigue basically from what we gather, her father ruled with martial/charisma as she herself is doing the same except more of the charisma/learning aspect. She was raised with the idea that women raise children and support the husband, an ideal housewife. "well she is boring" arguments, ehh doubt it, remember she is supporting her husband with children and representing him at court and not ruling in the shadows.

Lets take a look at her children tho, she has shown some form of favoritism from the future scenes but that is to be expected HOWEVER the siblings are extremely close to each other and the son and daughter are knowledgable/martial oriented.

So what I am getting at is that both women have different ways to express loyalty but at the end of the day, they are loyal to their husband first and foremost that they are willing to either kill for their families or rally their supporters (its been said that Aurora's guards where loyal to keep her safe during the coup).

 

[claus001]

Isis:
Isis works in the shadows whether its keeping elis safe from plots or dirtying her hands if her family is in danger as she was raised in an intrigue court. Plus she mentions that she gave her virginity to Elis (normally an ambitious woman would have lost it already).
Yes, we do get the dialogue about killing Elis's bastards because historically bastards have always been a threat to the true born children for dissatisfied nobles to rally behind. Another one that is used against Isis is the dialogue with the daughter, but we get nothing that implies what she says and is just provoking her mother plus the children are being raised with intrigue and the son with martial/intrigue.

To be fair, Isis is loyal, but then game counts Isis_dominance (misspelled) point meaning when she thinks MC is cuck enough she will make her move I just wonder how will she react to incest (when exposed). Either she will reject is completely or accept it 120% percent because of some ancient blood demon southern tradition.

 

[DrakoGhoul]

To be fair, Isis is loyal, but then game counts Isis_dominance (misspelled) point meaning when she thinks MC is cuck enough she will make her move I just wonder how will she react to incest (when exposed). Either she will reject is completely or accept it 120% percent because of some ancient blood demon southern tradition.

Isis probably doesn't care. Incest might even be some what common in the South with how many kids some of them have. I think Isis dad had a shit ton of kids, for example. It would be hard not to sleep with your half sisters or cousins. Especially if they also breed like crazy too.

Not to mention, Isis also doesn't have to worry about kids born from incest. Because those kids can never be acknowledged. Especially Sera's in particular. She would definitely have to not go in public when she start showing. Because everyone will know it's not the King's. Elin on the other hand has the cover of Lockhart. But in both cases, incest likely wouldn't bother Isis. Neither would the kids born from it.

That's why I don't think Isis reaction will be particularly interesting to see. Aurora on the other hand?

 

[Filipis]

Isis probably doesn't care. Incest might even be some what common in the South with how many kids some of them have. I think Isis dad had a shit ton of kids, for example. It would be hard not to sleep with your half sisters or cousins. Especially if they also breed like crazy too.

Not to mention, Isis also doesn't have to worry about kids born from incest. Because those kids can never be acknowledged. Especially Sera's in particular. She would definitely have to not go in public when she start showing. Because everyone will know it's not the King's. Elin on the other hand has the cover of Lockhart. But in both cases, incest likely wouldn't bother Isis. Neither would the kids born from it.

That's why I don't think Isis reaction will be particularly interesting to see. Aurora on the other hand?

This is an interesting take on Isis/Aurora and their reaction to incest... and you might just be right on the money.

Isis won't care about any bastards born from incest, as there isn't a lord alive that would support their claim to the throne - if anything, they might just rebel against the whole ordeal; it is in MC's & Isis' best interest to keep those bastards a secret.

Aurora might be the one to go ballistic, and even become disgusted with MC when she finds out (considering her being very religious)

Especially Sera's in particular. She would definitely have to not go in public when she start showing. Because everyone will know it's not the King's.

This is why Seraphina's and Lia's pregnancies will sound a lot of alarms - and I wonder exactly how LM plans to handle it.

On one hand, there are paths where MC doesn't romance them at all - so they don't end up pregnant (Elin & Lia's pregnancies are still optional, romance or not - but romancing Seraphina seems will always result in her pregnancy), so there's no problem there.

But - if you do get them pregnant - it should be a big fucking deal. And that means we should have two very different story paths going forward, because how the hell do Seraphina and Lia hide their pregnancies? LM is going to have to get very creative to avoid a huge divergence in the story.

 

[indigis]

This is an interesting take on Isis/Aurora and their reaction to incest... and you might just be right on the money.

Isis won't care about any bastards born from incest, as there isn't a lord alive that would support their claim to the throne - if anything, they might just rebel against the whole ordeal; it is in MC's & Isis' best interest to keep those bastards a secret.

Aurora might be the one to go ballistic, and even become disgusted with MC when she finds out (considering her being very religious)

This is why Seraphina's and Lia's pregnancies will sound a lot of alarms - and I wonder exactly how LM plans to handle it.

On one hand, there are paths where MC doesn't romance them at all - so they don't end up pregnant (Elin & Lia's pregnancies are still optional, romance or not - but romancing Seraphina seems will always result in her pregnancy), so there's no problem there.

But - if you do get them pregnant - it should be a big fucking deal. And that means we should have two very different story paths going forward, because how the hell do Seraphina and Lia hide their pregnancies? LM is going to have to get very creative to avoid a huge divergence in the story.

I always like to think that this is probably what LM wanted to begin with. A complex and intriguing story vs just another bland one that is similar to every other "family friend" porn game here.

 

[wheelstreak]

which of the starting perks has more scenes with secondary characters right now? Like the inkeeper's wife

 

[FalconLover420]

To be fair, Isis is loyal, but then game counts Isis_dominance (misspelled) point meaning when she thinks MC is cuck enough she will make her move I just wonder how will she react to incest (when exposed). Either she will reject is completely or accept it 120% percent because of some ancient blood demon southern tradition.

She is 100% but just goes in a different way.
I think the Isis_dominance just counts for sexual acts
as I think the negatives means you dominate more in bed and positive she dominates more in bed? At least that is how I understood it.

I think Isis will not expose it as sibling incest will bring down the entire kingdom (Remember the puppeteer on the tour with Cass, the commoners were mocking the relationships between MC and his female family members) but she probably will ask to either attempt to cover up who is their father or something like that.

 

[Jonmanchu]

Why name yourself as LAZYMONKEY if you are working hard and delivering consistently? Love you man,Keep them updates coming

 

[Gicoo]

which of the starting perks has more scenes with secondary characters right now? Like the inkeeper's wife

Fighter for peasants, bookworm for mythical creatures. Bookworm has the plus that you can fuck an exclusive recurring character. Fighter can have a few more additional scenes for the main cast.

 

[Filipis]

I always like to think that this is probably what LM wanted to begin with. A complex and intriguing story vs just another bland one that is similar to every other "family friend" porn game here.

Normally, that already sounds like a tough nut to crack, but specifically in the context of LM's 2-month schedule?
That kind of a significant divergence spells disaster.

 

[n00bPanda]

Whats the discord in the last 3 pages about Isis? I can't read 'em all. Somone, brief me, p(w)lease.

 

[storm1105]

Whats the discord in the last 3 pages about Isis? I can't read 'em all. Somone, brief me, p(w)lease.

Nothing important really just back and forth over whether or not Isis is loyal to the mc or planning to murder/betray them if the opportunity presents itself and whether or not Aurora is boring. With the main argument for the planning to betray the mc being that she's ambitious, good at scheming, she gives off Arianne Martell vibes, and that her family only came to power after overthrowing Ahara's family and killing everyone of them. The counter argument being that we don't have enough evidence she isn't loyal, it's not a good idea to judge based off a completely different character from a different series, and that being loyal to the mc is the most beneficial to her, and that so far she seems very supportive of him and defers to him first before killing Cass. That she was too young to have been involved when Ahara's family was killed by hers and that according to Isis there was an angry mob of peasants that wanted Ahara's family dead anyway and that they were showing mercy by executing them instead of handing them over to the peasants.



Then the Aurora boring debate is pretty subjective so nothing really came of that one way or the other.