VN Ren'Py Imperial Chronicles [v0.11] [Lazy Monkey]

[falconhawk223]

Ain't no way somebody has only done one run of this game...THAT'S INSANE

I have like 7-8 on the go, with 2-3 of them being the main ones that get done first and foremost.



Oh, I had a massive discussion about this a while ago with some dude. The summary was that I just don't trust her at all on my general playthroughs. Bitch throws up 9000 red flags within the first 15 minutes of meeting her. Vs Aurora who just seems like a genuine sweetheart, and would be the kind of wife I'd want to give Elis. One that would stand with him regardless of whatever bullshit might happen. Whereas Isis feels like the type, and she doesn't even really deny, being one who seeks power above all, and therefore wouldn't hesitate to throw Elis under the bus if something better should arise for her. Basically I'd imagine always looking over my shoulder if I had her as my wife. So no thank you. I'll take the sweet loyal blonde.

The more I think about it though, I should probably replace Aurora with Isis in my little 'paranoid, genocidal madman' game I've got going on. Seems like something she'd be into. Whereas I'm not sure Aurora would have the heart for it.

Make it a real 'Fuck it, we ball.' kinda game.

I don't agree that she'd throw Elis under the bus at the first opportunity. She pretty much had the chance to during the coup and choose not too, and even if she was out for power Elis is the best person capable of giving her power anyway. As for Red flags, I don't know I feel like she gives off less red flags to me than Cass does and this is coming from someone who picked cass's green route as their main. So far Isis seems just about as loyal as Aurora does. Aurora just seems kind of useless and I'm waiting for her to do something important for once besides being a baby maker

 

[GibboBtw]

I don't agree that she'd throw Elis under the bus at the first opportunity. She pretty much had the chance to during the coup and choose not too.

What does that even mean though? What could/would she have gained if she betrayed him during the coup? She would lose her marriage to the heir, and then be left with nothing really, but to go back home. Would have been dumb as shit to betray him there. So not really sure how that's a plus for her.

and even if she was out for power Elis is the best person capable of giving her power anyway.

If you're happy only having a happy wife as long as you can give her power. Then good for you. I want a wife who is capable of falling in love with Elis, and having a happy life of genuine love with him. Not just using him for her own gain.

As for Red flags, I don't know I feel like she gives off less red flags to me than Cass does and this is coming from someone who picked cass's green route as their main.

Not at all. Cass seems like she's just hiding behind this 'bad-bitch' persona, and really just wants someone to love her. I mean just look at throughout the game, and also the story she tells Elis about the guy she was betrothed to. She started letting her walls down with him, and seemed to be becoming happy, finally. As she was falling for him. Only to learn he was also just planning on using her, and then the walls went straight back up. She acts like she doesn't really care about a lot of things, but it's just a defense mechanism brought on by her shitty life.

It seems clear to me that she's actually not a bad person at all. As even after all that shit, she still never directly harms her family during the Coup, even though she threatens it and is shown to not have much love really for any of them, she never could. Whereas Isis happily kills your sister for you if you want her to, just like that. She's cold and rather heartless in comparison IMO.

So far Isis seems just about as loyal as Aurora does. Aurora just seems kind of useless and I'm waiting for her to do something important for once besides being a baby maker

Well, we haven't exactly had many opportunities yet for the wives to do much of anything, outside of Isis during the coup. I imagine they'll both start being a bit more involved in the story, if and when we start having to deal with their respective kingdoms. IE (Aurora with The North and Isis with The South.)

Even then, I'm not sure why it's a requirement for her to "do something important." She's already doing that by giving Elis children. I just want to see some more scenes of them spending time together to help build the relationship more, and to give us more of a look into her personality/character. Both wives included in that really. Which it seems we're getting if that poll was anything to go by.

 

[Gicoo]

The game just plays it too safe for anyone to betray the MC. It teases it a lot for sure, but never goes through with it. If Isis or Cass would actually harm the MC in a significant way, most of the audience would probably whine about their power fantasy being broken.

 

[falconhawk223]

What does that even mean though? What could/would she have gained if she betrayed him during the coup? She would lose her marriage to the heir, and then be left with nothing really, but to go back home. Would have been dumb as shit to betray him there. So not really sure how that's a plus for her.

Isis had the options to side with Cass during the coup when Cass imprisoned Elis. Even later if she asks if you want her to kill Cass she listens to Elis and refrains even if she doesn't agree with the choice. She and Cass could have just made Elis he puppet then she's already demonstrated she can pretty easily manipulate Cass. She also willingly gave up power to Cass if you want her too

If you're happy only having a happy wife as long as you can give her power. Then good for you. I want a wife who is capable of falling in love with Elis, and having a happy life of genuine love with him. Not just using him for her own gain.

I mean why are you ruling out the idea that Isis can fall in love with Elis in the first place? I'm not denying that Isis already said she's interested in power, I'm just saying so far she hasn't shown any signs of disloyalty or that she likes Elis any less than Aurora does.

Not at all. Cass seems like she's just hiding behind this 'bad-bitch' persona, and really just wants someone to love her. I mean just look at throughout the game, and also the story she tells Elis about the guy she was betrothed to.

Cass isn't putting on a "persona". She's genuinely like that and her backstory provides reasons for how she ended up that way. But her being a ruthless ambitious killer isn't some sort of act she put on. One of the very first scenes with her is talking about how she convinced some beggars to murder an alms giver her. With one of the visions showing her covered in blood and laughing. There is no "real Cass" that's hidden away. Every version of Cass you see is the "real Cass" that's simply just been shaped by her environment. The red flags are still part of her you just like the idea that you can fix her. The thing with her betrothed just shows why she's less idealistic now. I mean it's hinted that she killed her bethrothed.

Whereas Isis happily kills your sister for you if you want her to, just like that. She's cold and rather heartless in comparison IMO.

Yeah just like Cass happily killed some alms giver. Isis barley knows Cass, she's got no sort of attachment to Cass but she has an attachment to Elis and perceives Cass as a threat. Isis killing Cass and Cass refusing to kill Lia aren't really comparable because they're so drastically different situations. Cass has been heartlessly killing people left and right throughout the game. You're just choosing to ignore Cass's red flags because you insist that's not the real her. This is why I didn't like conversing with you when we were talking about the elves a while back. You just seemed way to bias on all your takes and never seem to look at stuff with nuance



Although I agree with Gicoco in that I don't think any major character is going to betray Elis.

Even then, I'm not sure why it's a requirement for her to "do something important."

Because I like when female characters have a sort of agency in the storyline and exist for more reasons than just to be a pretty daz model that we can fuck on occasion. I dislike female characters who never seem to want to do anything besides sit around and wait for their male love interest. I'm more ok with it if was this kind of suburban sandbox game, but for anything else I want female characters to take a more active role in the story. Especially some court intrigue game Aurora hasn't been shown to be able to do anything except get pushed around by other characters to the point where even her daughter calls her weak and useless.

 

[GibboBtw]

Isis had the options to side with Cass during the coup when Cass imprisoned Elis. Even later if she asks if you want her to kill Cass she listens to Elis and refrains even if she doesn't agree with the choice. She and Cass could have just made Elis he puppet then she's already demonstrated she can pretty easily manipulate Cass. She also willingly gave up power to Cass if you want her too

Again, I'm not sure why this is relevant. I have always said that my view of Isis, is that she is WAY more likely to betray Elis as soon as she gets a 'better offer.' So betraying Elis during the coup, and opting into some kind of partnership of puppeting Elis with Cass, like you are suggesting as some viable thing. Does not qualify as a 'BETTER OFFER' in the slightest. So it's pointless to keep bringing it up as a bonus for her.

I mean why are you ruling out the idea that Isis can fall in love with Elis in the first place? I'm not denying that Isis already said she's interested in power, I'm just saying so far she hasn't shown any signs of disloyalty or that she likes Elis any less than Aurora does.

She might do, who knows. But she's already shown she's looking for power first and foremost. And I generally view those, like most people do. As being less trustworthy people, as you never trust them 100% because by their own admissions. They're always looking out for themselves, first and foremost.

Cass isn't putting on a "persona". She's genuinely like that and her backstory provides reasons for how she ended up that way. But her being a ruthless ambitious killer isn't some sort of act she put on. One of the very first scenes with her is talking about how she convinced some beggars to murder an alms giver her. With one of the visions showing her covered in blood and laughing. There is no "real Cass" that's hidden away. Every version of Cass you see is the "real Cass" that's simply just been shaped by her environment. The red flags are still part of her you just like the idea that you can fix her. The thing with her betrothed just shows why she's less idealistic now. I mean it's hinted that she killed her bethrothed.

If I recall correctly, she didn't start killing any of them, until the moment they started feeding to the King that she needed to go as well like Elis. So then she decided, 'well, they've all gotta go now.' Which again, seems completely fair game to me. And as for it being 'hinted' about her killing her bethrothed, I thought she left no doubt that she killed him. And I'm all for it. Deserved. Seems to be a recurring thing with a lot of these killings she does, being people that mess with her first, so then she kills them. Also the fact that she's our sister. So I instantly trust her more than 99% of the cast. As I am a firm believer in the 'Blood is thicker than water.' saying anyway. Instantly puts her as being much more trustworthy.

Yeah just like Cass happily killed some alms giver. Isis barley knows Cass, she's got no sort of attachment to Cass but she has an attachment to Elis and perceives Cass as a threat. Isis killing Cass and Cass refusing to kill Lia aren't really comparable because they're so drastically different situations. Cass has been heartlessly killing people left and right throughout the game. You're just choosing to ignore Cass's red flags because you insist that's not the real her.

I already explained the first bit above. Fully deserved and understandable on all accounts for me.

I mean, I still would question the mind and sanity of any person that would happily kill your sibling for you, without any question. Again, gives off rather "cold" and "unhinged" behaviour. And just seems like someone that you would always be wary of. I mean honestly, hypothetically. If you asked me to kill your family member, and I just said "yeah, okay let's do it." Are you telling me not the slightest part of you from then on, would be like "huh...concerning..."

This is why I didn't like conversing with you when we were talking about the elves a while back. You just seemed way to bias on all your takes and never seem to look at stuff with nuance

Okay first of all, you @ me dude. I did not @ you. You responded to me, responding to another guy...SO If you don't like "conversing" with someone. Maybe don't initiate with them then?

Second. Calling ME the bias one is rather ironic. I at least have playthroughs with Isis as well as Aurora. And enjoy them both.

I am just saying, that if this game was a '1 life situation' or just a 'general' playthrough. I am picking Aurora over Isis, solely due to it being less of a risk, and me finding her to be the better pick for being a 'loyal wife' and queen for Elis IMO. I still have games with Isis, and they're fine. I just prefer Aurora.

You on the other hand, just seem to be shitting on Aurora nonstop, and trying to convince me constantly, every time you @ me about this. That she's useless in comparison to Isis, and is a worse pick. So maybe look at yourself first my guy when it comes to bias.

Third. My Elvish hate, is a bit. That I like to amp up for fun, to enjoy trying to be a genocidal madman for one game. I mean yeah, Elves usually annoy me a bit in most fantasy universes, with the smugness and sense of superiority. But, Spoiler alert! I'm not actually going to genocide the Elves in 95% of my games. Just one or two. To see what it's like. Shocking I know...

Although I agree with Gicoco in that I don't think any major character is going to betray Elis.

Nobody knows what LM has in mind. It might well never happen, or you might be able to get 'bad endings' where Isis or even Aurora might betray you. Who knows! Only LM.

Because I like when female characters have a sort of agency in the storyline and exist for more reasons than just to be a pretty daz model that we can fuck on occasion. I dislike female characters who never seem to want to do anything besides sit around and wait for their male love interest. I'm more ok with it if was this kind of suburban sandbox game, but for anything else I want female characters to take a more active role in the story. Especially some court intrigue game Aurora hasn't been shown to be able to do anything except get pushed around by other characters to the point where even her daughter calls her weak and useless.

Oh look, more Aurora hate. Not biased at all tho...

As I said before again. What chances have the wifes actually had to do "something important" outside of Isis and the Coup? Maybe wait a bit and come back to this again, after we get some actual content focused on the wives, which is supposed to be coming, at least partly.

 

[dirtyfaustine]

Never understood why people choose Aurora over Isis lol, Isida dialogues and scenes are much better than Aurora maybe some people are scared that Isis will kill Elis in the future or I guess some people just really like Blondes

i love scandinavians.

 

[DrakoGhoul]

The game just plays it too safe for anyone to betray the MC. It teases it a lot for sure, but never goes through with it. If Isis or Cass would actually harm the MC in a significant way, most of the audience would probably whine about their power fantasy being broken.

The game definitely plays it safe in some regards. But I don't think betrayals would ruin the power fantasy or make most players whine. Unless, players can't do anything about it.

Look at Cass. While she didn't hurt Elis in a major way. She does drug him and his mother. Then throws him in prison and tries to force him to do things her way. Which I would consider a betrayal. Since she doesn't respect Elis decision to not want to do a coup with her. Trying to even use his younger sister to get him to do it. And she would've kept him in that dungeon until he agreed to her terms. Or at least until she had full control over the kingdom.

Now, if we didn't get the option to counter Cass. And had no choice but to do what she wanted. I think that would've pissed off a decent amount of players. However, we're given like 4 or more ways to kill Cass. So in that regard. I think most players are fine with it. As long as they have options to accompany it.

That said, the long fabled Isis betrayal is driven by nothing but paranoia at this point. And likely will only happen to players who intentionally antagonize Isis on their playthroughs. If it even happens at all. We've had several visions of the future and people are still thinking Isis is out to kill them. Got the dev teasing fans through Azalia and everything. Even though Elis is alive and healthy with two adult children. Including an adult son. Surely that means Isis will kill Elis in the near future.

So including some betrayals wouldn't be an issue. At least in my own opinion. I just think that if there's going to be some. It should be accompanied with options. Like if somehow Isis really does turn against Elis. It should be followed the same way it is with Cass. If you played into Isis route, there's no betrayal. However, if you were paranoid and hostile to her. She fucks you over.

 

[falconhawk223]

Again, I'm not sure why this is relevant. I have always said that my view of Isis, is that she is WAY more likely to betray Elis as soon as she gets a 'better offer.' So betraying Elis during the coup, and opting into some kind of partnership of puppeting Elis with Cass, like you are suggesting as some viable thing. Does not qualify as a 'BETTER OFFER' in the slightest. So it's pointless to keep bringing it up as a bonus for her.

It's a better off because Isis has already shown she can manipulate Cass. Even if you don't think it's a better offer either way she willingly takes a back seat and lets Elis give power move power to Cass instead of just killing Cass without even caring what Elis wants.

If I recall correctly, she didn't start killing any of them, until the moment they started feeding to the King that she needed to go as well like Elis. So then she decided, 'well, they've all gotta go now.' Which again, seems completely fair game to me. And as for it being 'hinted' about her killing her bethrothed, I thought she left no doubt that she killed him. And I'm all for it. Deserved. Seems to be a recurring thing with a lot of these killings she does, being people that mess with her first, so then she kills them. Also the fact that she's our sister. So I instantly trust her more than 99% of the cast. As I am a firm believer in the 'Blood is thicker than water.' saying anyway. Instantly puts her as being much more trustworthy.

She killed the Alms giver simply because he was advising the king to keep Elis in exile. It had nothing to do with her at all and her bethrothed never did anything to her. She only killed him once she found out the prince charming thing was a facade. She also kills a bunch of guards and that one lord just because they were in her way. She kills fairly often without much care but that's fine because she's our sister.

I mean, I still would question the mind and sanity of any person that would happily kill your sibling for you, without any question. Again, gives off rather "cold" and "unhinged" behaviour. And just seems like someone that you would always be wary of. I mean honestly, hypothetically. If you asked me to kill your family member, and I just said "yeah, okay let's do it." Are you telling me not the slightest part of you from then on, would be like 'huh...concerning..."

This is just such a weird take and I don't understand it at all. Cass had previously imprisoned Elis and is trying to strong arm him and force him to do whatever she wants. Isis has never spent any Cass why should be bothered? On top of that if you have Isis kill her nobody cares and the rest of the family is thankful that Isis did so. Is the rest of the family "unhinged" for supporting Isis for doing it?



Yeah, I would think if was concerning if Isis had killed someone like Lia who is harmless, or if Isis had killed her own sister. I would not be concerned if they killed a like Cass, who is not her sibling and who is presented as being manipulative, potentially dangerous and who nobody really trusts. I see absolutely no reason why Isis or anyone else in her position should care at all. It's just bizarre to me that you even bring that up as a potential red flag, unless just killing anyone=red flag. Which I could get if you weren't perfectly ok with all the killing Cass does. It's the weird double standard you have that I don't like and feel like makes it hard to converse with you. The coup and imprisonment is a pretty good reason for Isis to kill Cass and isn't as simple as "because you asked me too".

If you asked me to kill your family member, and I just said "yeah, okay let's do it."

Yeah if you said yeah ok, no questions asked without even knowing who it is. It would be another thing If I asked you to kill some abusive relative who also happens to be a mobster and who beat the shit out of me in front of you.

Second. Calling ME the bias one is rather ironic. I at least have playthroughs with Isis as well as Aurora. And enjoy them both.

When did I ever say I didn't have a playthrough with Aurora? I just said it's not my main because I don't like her as much. As for calling you bias I feel like you kind of backed me up with your reply. Cass killing her fiance because he lied to her is "completely justified", but Isis killing a woman she barley knows but who had imprisoned her husband and is currently extorting him is unhinged for whatever reason.

You on the other hand, just seem to be shitting on Aurora nonstop, and trying to convince me constantly,

Nah I never talk to you about Aurora or Isis. Pretty much every time we argue it's about how you think everything Cass does is completely fine. I don't think I've literally ever talked to you about Isis before now that wasn't just some blanket discussion that also included talks about Alaina and Cass. Cass is the main reason why I'm replying here.

That she's useless in comparison to Isis, and is a worse pick. So maybe look at yourself first my guy when it comes to bias.

Yes, somehow I'm bias against Aurora and demonstrate that by wishing that the character had more agency and had more stuff to do.

Oh look, more Aurora hate. Not biased at all tho...

Yes, it's hate by voicing the same critisims a character in the story already made. I don't really care if you like Aurora more than Isis, you do you. I already said me not liking Aurora has more to do me feeling the character is wasted potential than any sort of bias. I don't hate Aurora I hate how she's written. She was perfectly fine until after the date.



I do hate this weird double standard you have with Cass though. I'm done with this conversation though, it's a waste of time conversating if even you can't see bad some of your comparisons are