HTML Inner Empire [v1.7] [Defiant Explorer]
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- Sep 2, 2017
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I don't know how to feel about that. On the one hand, I can in no way forbid people to look into the code and tell others what is there. On the other hand, it's like telling the audience of magicians what their tricks consist of right during their performance.The statistics are technically the same for everyone.
Chat's relatively high pregnancy chance stems from the fact he ejaculates many many times.You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
Note to self. Do not leave variables responsible for story aspects until they appear in the game. Otherwise, virtual Robin Hoods may reveal them too much sooner than they should.
- Mar 19, 2024
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Well; that all seems rather interesting to me, ffive!+! I must say that I find your last two answers very precise regarding the percentages of the game's mechanisms/variables. As I uniquely play with the mobile version, and that my informatics skills remain limited, I was simply wondering how can you've managed to obtain this famous hidden informations? [^-The statistics are technically the same for everyone.
Chat's relatively high pregnancy chance stems from the fact he ejaculates many many times.You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
-^] P.S. /In passing: it just seemed to me that a dose of three drops of this "potion" (the blue kiss), was HIGHLY inadvisable for an optimum health... Right or not, according to you?&?\
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- Sep 28, 2017
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(Disclaimer
: I routinely play games with their sourcecode open (primarily renpy games, as their code is much more lineraly organized than twine games, but I've snooped around plenty in those too)):The big difference between this and the magic scenario is that 1. a performance is live, and 2. being told isn't a choice for the audience. This means, it's disruptive to both the artist and the audience, which is rather rude.
(Of course, one could also easily find a scenario niche in which the magic one is fine - say if the magic act is introduced as "I'll perform magic tricks while my friend here explains what I'm doing")
In the game case, the audience part is easy: As long as the info is properly signposted and spoilered, whether you click on that spoiler and learn more about how it all works behind the scenes, or you don't and keep the illusion alive, is every player's individual choice. There are some edge cases, like people that can never resist getting all the spoilers, and then always feel absolutely terrible about having been spoiled, but in general... I think the audience is fine.
The artist part is more complex - the game is less of a real time thing, so it's not disruptive in that sense, but of course it is likely not how they want the audience to experience their art. It's of course completely normal and healthy to want to influence how people will interact with your art, within limits, but as you said, you can't forbid people to look at the code.
And also, it might not be how you intended your art to be experienced, but if someone gets something meaningful by reading your book with some soundtrack that's just off, or watching your movie somewhat intoxicated while talking with their friends about it, or playing your game as if they're a mildly deranged 19th century dandy; if it works for them? Isn't that fine? You can definitely think that if they'd experienced the art they way you intended, it would've been more meaningful to them, but putting aside the question whether that means you should impose it on the audience, can you really be sure of that?
(Counterpoint to this is that of course if you do feel strongly about something, you absolutely can take steps. See for example why certain things will never have mechanics in some historical Paradox games).
Playing games with more information seems like a pretty common interest - the number of people that actual codedelve is pretty small, but walkthroughs are pretty popular (both the written kind and the mod kind). Looking beyond adult games, there are a ton of walkthrough, summaries, detailed guides how this or that mechanic exactly works and so on.
Reasons range probably from wanting to go in knowing you'll enjoy it, to wanting to experience/not experience certain things, to enjoying optimizing. Regardless, it's fun enough for a lot of people.
I'm not sure if this rambling heap o'nonsense was helpful, but I hope it still makes you feel a bit better about it
Regarding variables: Yeah, definitely remove or obscure them if they hint at stuff you don't want anyone to know about yet. There are a couple of renpy games for which the storyboards of the remaining chapters are in clear plaintext with every release, and I don't think I've ever seen people spoil info from that, but better safe than sorry.
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- Mar 19, 2024
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Oh! Okay, good to know, so I've my detailed answer now. This apparently boils down to a story of great spying on the source code of the engine of these games... Anyway: thanks for your reply, Kagarus!-(Disclaimer
The big difference between this and the magic scenario is that 1. a performance is live, and 2. being told isn't a choice for the audience. This means, it's disruptive to both the artist and the audience, which is rather rude.
(Of course, one could also easily find a scenario niche in which the magic one is fine - say if the magic act is introduced as "I'll perform magic tricks while my friend here explains what I'm doing")
In the game case, the audience part is easy: As long as the info is properly signposted and spoilered, whether you click on that spoiler and learn more about how it all works behind the scenes, or you don't and keep the illusion alive, is every player's individual choice. There are some edge cases, like people that can never resist getting all the spoilers, and then always feel absolutely terrible about having been spoiled, but in general... I think the audience is fine.
The artist part is more complex - the game is less of a real time thing, so it's not disruptive in that sense, but of course it is likely not how they want the audience to experience their art. It's of course completely normal and healthy to want to influence how people will interact with your art, within limits, but as you said, you can't forbid people to look at the code.
And also, it might not be how you intended your art to be experienced, but if someone gets something meaningful by reading your book with some soundtrack that's just off, or watching your movie somewhat intoxicated while talking with their friends about it, or playing your game as if they're a mildly deranged 19th century dandy; if it works for them? Isn't that fine? You can definitely think that if they'd experienced the art they way you intended, it would've been more meaningful to them, but putting aside the question whether that means you should impose it on the audience, can you really be sure of that?
(Counterpoint to this is that of course if you do feel strongly about something, you absolutely can take steps. See for example why certain things will never have mechanics in some historical Paradox games).
Playing games with more information seems like a pretty common interest - the number of people that actual codedelve is pretty small, but walkthroughs are pretty popular (both the written kind and the mod kind). Looking beyond adult games, there are a ton of walkthrough, summaries, detailed guides how this or that mechanic exactly works and so on.
Reasons range probably from wanting to go in knowing you'll enjoy it, to wanting to experience/not experience certain things, to enjoying optimizing. Regardless, it's fun enough for a lot of people.
I'm not sure if this rambling heap o'nonsense was helpful, but I hope it still makes you feel a bit better about it
Regarding variables: Yeah, definitely remove or obscure them if they hint at stuff you don't want anyone to know about yet. There are a couple of renpy games for which the storyboards of the remaining chapters are in clear plaintext with every release, and I don't think I've ever seen people spoil info from that, but better safe than sorry.
-!
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Hmm, i didn't consider to be such drastic case because all that info was already provided by both the game itself (Iolanta's lecture on how the Blue Kiss works) and your earlier posts in this thread. While there's no specific percentages, i don't think that particular bit of data is magic-breaking, and at the end of the day pregnancy is still down to chance. The player isn't going to know whether they actually got pregnant or not.
Rest assured i'm not goint to reveal story-related spoilers, or even track them for this manner. This is a rare game where i enjoy experiencing the plot completely blind.
- Sep 2, 2017
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It's okay, I'm not angry or anything. Rather, I'm worried that some variables, if exposed, might, shall we say, cause false expectations. Or be misinterpreted. Like, here are the variables that are responsible for romantic interest, so a romance would be possible with the characters they touch, right? Actually, that's not a fact at all. Maybe it is. Maybe not. And right now, I can't be sure myself. Some things remain nothing more than early ideas. So it is possible that these variables will remain unused, and in some final build of the game will be removed as redundant.
Anyway, the fact that someone is digging into my code is even flattering to some extent. After all, you need a lot of interest in the game to dig into its code in search of answers.
Ehem, I know it seems a bit rude to ask since the dev themself already said something about looking at the source code, but, with all due respect I asking as a curious kitten, do you know how to look at who the father of your kid is if you got pregnant?The statistics are technically the same for everyone.
Chat's relatively high pregnancy chance stems from the fact he ejaculates many many times.You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
For pregnancy chance, I really hope you keep that in because I don't know if we'll see say Lysander again in the future or not right, but what if I want to have my character to carry his child? Giving a lot more player agency in game like this is a lot more fun for the player especially with the many story you can tell. And if you cant fulfill that promise in the future, just plan for the further future.
- Sep 2, 2017
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Oh, curious kitten, why make a man look for something that doesn't exist? The game doesn't remember who the father is. Just his ethnicity. Welcome to a world without DNA testing. Just like it's been said here.
Oh I didn't know that thread exist, thank you. I guess it does make it more interesting
- Nov 11, 2020
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OK, but I'm sure a good oracle, soothsayer or seer could tell us who is the father.
You just need the right offering
- Sep 2, 2017
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Huh, and you gave me a pretty good idea for a little scene somewhere in chapter 3... Anyway, I don't know if this will disappoint you, but the game doesn't memorize in any way who exactly the father is. It's not just the validity of such a thing in terms of plot or setting here, but it also has a game-mechanical reason as well.OK, but I'm sure a good oracle, soothsayer or seer could tell us who is the father.
You just need the right offering
First, think of how many men Selene could potentially sleep with. Then add to them all the men she might sleep with in the future before the moment she realizes she's pregnant (and there will be many). And then imagine me having to do not just a huge if/else algorithm with 20-30 options, but also work through each of them with lines/descriptions and stuff (otherwise, what's the point of such an algorithm?). And if you imagine that my face at this moment is joyful and not shriveled from fatigue and headache, then you imagine it wrong.
... but back to the street fortune tellers. Sure, they'll tell you anything. “Just give me a coin, good woman, and I'll tell you everything you want to know.”
- Nov 11, 2020
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It's exactly what I was thinking.
I suppose that in your world, like in our own ancient times, there will be all sort of people claiming to be able to see "things".
From a sacred Oracle in a great temple, down to the fortune tellers at the corner of every bad street.
The value of the "offering" will just vary according to the reputation of the seer.
As for the validity of divination... well unless there are really some magic powers in Selene world, the program doesn't need any variables to keep track of the father(s), just a random function
- May 24, 2018
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Btw is Murella romance route is still a planned thing or is it on halt? My hopes are up since Iolanta did her night trolling thing...
- Sep 2, 2017
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Well, plot justification is one thing. I in general don't know what I'd do with variables that would keep track of who exactly the father is, frankly. Well, even if they were. Most of the potential “daddies” will always be left behind somewhere, since we have a traveling troupe of actors here.As for the validity of divination... well unless there are really some magic powers in Selene world, the program doesn't need any variables to keep track of the father(s), just a random function
What use Selene has for the hypothetical knowledge that the father is, I don't know, let it be Lasander from the first village. He's already two weeks away in the opposite direction. Will she ditch the troupe and go to him (and his actual pregnant wife...)? To do what? Or do I right strictly need some internal monologues in Selene's head, like, oh the father is definitely Lasander and... and... Well, yeah, some useless thing, this exact knowledge in this kind of story. After all, this is not some dating sim with 2-3 candidates where all the events take place in the same locale.
That said, the game memorizes a lot of other things. Well, let's say Selene decides to blame Cadonis after realizing she's pregnant. But how to know if she can have such a phrase in principle? This is where the variable showing whether or not they had sex is needed. And only the very first variable is enough for this, well, the one that notes sex after seduction = true (because so far all subsequent sex scenes with him depend on it). And how to figure out whether to put the phrase “You are the father of my child!” or “You are the father of my child (lie)!” Well, there's a hidden sex counter variable in the game that only gets +1 when Selene have sex with each new man. So if this variable <= 1, and the variable of first sex with Cadonis = true, then there would be a phrase without the prefix “lie” at the end, because Selene only had sex with him. And it doesn't matter in which particular sex scene with him she might have gotten pregnant. In any other case, such a statement, would be a lie. At the very least, Selene can't be 100% sure. After all, the sex count variable show that she slept with more than 1 man.
This was just a hypothetical example of how I would handle this issue if I needed such a scene with Cadonis. With someone who's nearby, not somewhere far away. Knowing exactly whose sperm fertilized Selene's ovum and when is of no use to me. I can't give that knowledge to you, the players, because of the setting's specifics (Bronze Age, there are no DNA tests, and whether this kind of predictive “magic” exists is a big question). And I see no practical use of this knowledge for myself as an author.
- Sep 2, 2017
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As of late, I have forbidden myself to give any clear hints about future events, except for the most general ones. Alas, what you're asking about is not one of them, sorry.
Curious. I have played all the game without expending any insights in pass harder trials, except for some 3-skill/4 request and worked perfectly fine for me.
Ways of play, I suppose...
Other than very few situations where failing a check can lead to death, you can indeed play the whole thing not taking the options which require more skill than your MC has. But these options often lead to some extra opportunities and/or grant you insight for completing associated tasks, so it's a venue worth exploring, imo.