I don't know, but that doesn't matter, what matters is it's going to happen anyway, which is why I think the dev shouldn't let it get to them too much.
HTML Inner Empire [v1.8] [Defiant Explorer]
- Mar 19, 2024
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Alright, brother (or sis). Alright. Can you just stop complaining for two minutes?
We understand well that waiting for the current update seems to frustrate you greatly. Please, don't get me wrong: I've absolutely nothing against you, but I estimate that you could have refrained from throwing this kind of lame and unconstructive opinions on the thread of discussion. In any case, as this long-awaited update should be ready by the end of May, it means that the bulk of the waiting is well and truly behind us!
But perhaps it's not satisfying enough for you? If so, let me make you a little suggestion CreativeCritic2: "do yourself a favor". I.E.: don't forget to thank the deserving developers, maybe even support them if you can afford it.
Also, you should don't get annoyed unnecessarily about the delay of massive updates, and above all try don't be discouraging in your comments (it's indeed rather distressing to read).
Whatever you think, be well aware that Defiant Explorer is really a committed developer, who always listens the proposals of his fans, which also offers an excellent job with the means at his disposal, and whose constant efforts on his promising game I appreciate.
To conclude, I'd also add that if you're getting tired of writing "creative reviews" of such and such games or devs on this pirate site, you may should instead consider devoting your great energy to becoming a new developer yourself?
Yeah mate, why not after all?+? Thus, you could measure by yourself just how difficult it is to develop good games for the adult gaming community...
Okay, I assume that I've expressed enough my point of view, it's now up to you to take over my dear Inner Empire fellows. [^-
-^]
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For those who care.
That is, for those who came here not to throw shit on the fan with absurd accusations of me personally, but who are interested in how and why.
Deadlines. I give deadlines not for a month, but for a specific date, as it was last year (July 5, March 31, October 14-31). Just go through my Patreon for those dates and see for yourself.
I never give deadlines for an approximate month. All of these are nothing more than my estimates for one period or another. And I only give them because people ask me to. “Look, at least give me a rough estimate”. And I knew it would happen, but I decided to go for it. And then it was, “Oh no, you promised, blah blah blah, the deadline is then!” Oh, boy... No, it's not. And never been.
What took so long? It's really not that long. I mean, content-wise, the next update will accommodate any 3 previous ones. But this episode doesn't have a convenient dividing point. Because the events there are tied up in a tangle of decisions. They have to get to the nearest such point (where the end of the episode is), and it happens to be a whole 900+ draft pages long.
I'd even say that this update isn't linearly lengthened, but through choices and elaborate alternatives. It's the kind of episode in the story that, by replaying in different ways in the future, you'll almost certainly discover something new time after time after time. That's why it's so big. And in terms of Selene's development as a character, there should be a wide range of choices there. Or at least, more than there usually has been before.
So even if I released a similar amount of content, it would still take me about the same amount of time. The only exception now, is that this episode can't be split into parts without cutting things off halfway through.
Readiness Stage. The draft is 100% ready, which is the bulk of the work. Converting the draft into the game is in process. 1/3 of the update is ready and playable. 2/3 should be ready by the end of this month. And 100% will hopefully be completed by around the end of May. And I remind you again, this one is still not a deadline, but my approximate estimate. But as it gets closer, it's already much more accurate than the estimates I gave when I was still writing the draft. When there is a deadline, there will be a specific date by which the 1.8 update will see the world.
P.S. Those critics...
Ssato243
Engaged Member
- Feb 2, 2021
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First of all, I want to make something crystal clear. While this post it´s going to be a criticism, ITS NOT A COMPLAIN. We are here in a forum where we gets things for free, and when you get things for free, you have no rights to complain.
That´s a clear case of bad project management. And that´s ok, it´s the first try of the author in this kind of project, nobody have been born knowing how to do things and there are only a way to make things right, and it´s making things wrong and learn from it. But if the author wants to grow from a nice amateur project to a pro level, lessons should be learned from this.
And in order to learn, I believe that can be useful to have a look at the real pros of this kind of things. And I´m not talking about any game developers. I´m talking about the big names of storytelling by installments. Dumas, Dickens, Blasco Ibañez...
Each chapter of his novels it´s of the same length, give or take. And that was made this way in order to cope with the physical limitations that putting a chapter in the middle of a newspaper (and we have not this issue here), and more relevant, in order to cope with the deadlines. Better or worse, more polished or more rough, each week or each fortnight, a new chapter NEED to be in the central pages of the newspaper.
And also, each chapter it´s in his own like a mini novel with his structure. But not with the typical one (presentation- development-resolution) but slightly changed order. Resolution (of the last chapter)-presentation-development, and finishing the development with a nice cliffhanger to get the readers (players in this case) in his tiptoes. Something that have not been done in the last updates, IIRR. At least the last two finish with the situation solved, following a presentation-development-resolution pattern. No cliffhangers at all
All this said, once the problem of the size of the update have happened, better that the developer takes his time to make the things right that hurry it and make a bad job. But i hope that in future updates the size and time needed to be completed would be a concern in the planning phase.
That´s a clear case of bad project management. And that´s ok, it´s the first try of the author in this kind of project, nobody have been born knowing how to do things and there are only a way to make things right, and it´s making things wrong and learn from it. But if the author wants to grow from a nice amateur project to a pro level, lessons should be learned from this.
And in order to learn, I believe that can be useful to have a look at the real pros of this kind of things. And I´m not talking about any game developers. I´m talking about the big names of storytelling by installments. Dumas, Dickens, Blasco Ibañez...
Each chapter of his novels it´s of the same length, give or take. And that was made this way in order to cope with the physical limitations that putting a chapter in the middle of a newspaper (and we have not this issue here), and more relevant, in order to cope with the deadlines. Better or worse, more polished or more rough, each week or each fortnight, a new chapter NEED to be in the central pages of the newspaper.
And also, each chapter it´s in his own like a mini novel with his structure. But not with the typical one (presentation- development-resolution) but slightly changed order. Resolution (of the last chapter)-presentation-development, and finishing the development with a nice cliffhanger to get the readers (players in this case) in his tiptoes. Something that have not been done in the last updates, IIRR. At least the last two finish with the situation solved, following a presentation-development-resolution pattern. No cliffhangers at all
All this said, once the problem of the size of the update have happened, better that the developer takes his time to make the things right that hurry it and make a bad job. But i hope that in future updates the size and time needed to be completed would be a concern in the planning phase.
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I'm not sure this situation is about “poor project management” as you seem to think bolondro2. It's more about following creative inspiration or ignoring it and following the schedule and money. When working on this particular update, I chose the first. In fact, since the beginning of the game's development, I've been choosing the first. Always the first. Consider it my strategy (or stupidity), as you wish.
After all, to tell an interesting story, you don't need all the branching dialog and immersion effects. You can just give a retelling of the dialog, let the protagonist speak for the player, and the player occasionally gets a yes/no/sarcasm option. It would speed up the workflow tremendously. But I don't do that. You could also plug in modern technology, why write everything yourself? Ask some AI, "write" whole chapters in 5 seconds, and you pick out the best of it. That would speed up the process even more, like up to monthly updates. Or even weekly updates... But I don't do that either. Everything, down to the last word, is written by me and only me.
So, I've certainly drawn conclusions, but not the ones you're hoping for, I'm afraid. If possible, I'll try not to go excessively beyond the notional 300 page in draft episodes. But if the creative call urges me back into another big one... Well, I'll follow it, no matter what. I've long felt that it's not me making the game or this fictional world, but rather it reveals itself through me. If you think I have a choice here, I don't. I'm not in charge here. Nope.
After all, to tell an interesting story, you don't need all the branching dialog and immersion effects. You can just give a retelling of the dialog, let the protagonist speak for the player, and the player occasionally gets a yes/no/sarcasm option. It would speed up the workflow tremendously. But I don't do that. You could also plug in modern technology, why write everything yourself? Ask some AI, "write" whole chapters in 5 seconds, and you pick out the best of it. That would speed up the process even more, like up to monthly updates. Or even weekly updates... But I don't do that either. Everything, down to the last word, is written by me and only me.
So, I've certainly drawn conclusions, but not the ones you're hoping for, I'm afraid. If possible, I'll try not to go excessively beyond the notional 300 page in draft episodes. But if the creative call urges me back into another big one... Well, I'll follow it, no matter what. I've long felt that it's not me making the game or this fictional world, but rather it reveals itself through me. If you think I have a choice here, I don't. I'm not in charge here. Nope.
Saerwen
Engaged Member
- Jul 7, 2017
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Hey, you are your own boss. Thinking of fucking deadlines remind me office work which I hate. It's another thing when you have to fulfill deadline when your boss orders you, but some of us don't have the right to meddle in your work. The only ones who have the right to complain are patrons, those who pay. Life is unpredictable and things happen, so it's up to them if they will believe when the dev says they can't keep up or not. I know it's not easy to believe because they have been burned before with other dev milkers or are worried if it gets abandoned, but like I said, patrons can stop paying. Even when I have an idea for a fanfiction and start to write, it's difficult, I can't imagine developing a game.
It's probably a bit presumptuous to conclude so quickly that not sticking slavishly to the same formula 24/7 is indeed "bad project management" when it may be very well a welcome (occasional) change in pacing of the story, that can prevent things from feeling all the same after a while.
Keep in mind that in the end the game is going to be played as single entity, rather than a series of identically sized and identically paced episodes/updates, which is more suited for a never-ending sitcom or, indeed, a newspaper publication with the primary goal of just making some regular buck.
The Infamous Panty Bandit
Expert in Lingerie larceny and knicker nicking
Trial Moderator
Uploader
Donor
- Feb 8, 2020
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This is getting off topic. Let's take these kind of convos to DMs and get the thread back on track before we have to start deleting and reply-banning. First and only warning.
- Sep 2, 2017
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I'm a bit confused. Haven't checked the thread since yesterday. Was there something here that the moderator deleted and put the warning on? Or did the warning relate to a discussion about the update deadlines and stuff?
- Mar 19, 2024
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Hiya D.E.; No, the moderators haven't deleted anything on the thread since yesterday, but they may crack down in the future, if discussions continue to "go off the rails" on various subjects that have nothing directly to do with your game.
Hence this warning which, I believe, is about the On-Topic Threads rule number 7:
<< Avoid excessive discussion about development. Talking about developers is fine, but derailing the game discussion with multiple pages of the same arguments concerning development speed, delays, pricing, etc is not. >>
For the curious who might be interested, the general forum rules can be found here:
|---> https://f95zone.to/threads/general-rules-updated-2025-01-29.5589/
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Damn. I thought reporting news (well, or my guesses) about when the update is roughly expected is kinda a nice thing. Okay, I'm not going to post anything more here on deadlines and such. Just in case.
Sorry if anything.
Noo, reports of progress (especially from the dev) are fine, you don't have to worry about it. It's common for the other threads to have dev reports on Patreon reposted, and no one minds that, mods included.
It's the random posters bitching over why updates take long etc that potentially get the mod stick.
Wuvlies
Newbie
- Aug 16, 2018
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"oh hey i wonder whats going on in this thread havent checked in a while and loved this game"
-Wastrel
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Innocent Chloe
Active Member
- Jul 23, 2017
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Is the survivor origin flashback the only rape content in the game or are there other rape scenes elsewhere as well? I ask because I finished a noble origin playthrough of v1.7 and did not encounter any rape so was curious if the rape tag on the thread is solely for the survivor origin flashback or if there are other scenes in the game?
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So far, it's only the nightmare scene in Survivor Origin. With some stretch, something like this can be seen in the Chat scenes, but it's more of a gray area there rather than a non-con. Oh, and then there's the scene with the unconscious Meralion and (by player's choice) a bit too overactive Selene. But that's more of a... reverse rape? But even there, in a number of her lines, Selene may try to justify it as an attempt to express gratitude. Or just be a cold, egoistic bitch, though.
On the whole, I'm much more inclined to show "gray areas" where things aren't all unambiguous, to provoke player reflection, rather than straightforward scenes of sexual violence. The latter, however, is not impossible. Selene has no plot armor against this. There's just no room or suitable characters for it, narratively speaking, yet.
There is a scene with the blacksmith that i certainly would classify as rape, due to consent being taken away half way through the sex.
There is also a scene with Meralion, where the protagonist can rape him in his sleep.
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Oh, I completely forgot about ol' Lasander. Well yeah, in the second iteration, when he gets aggressive, if Selene didn't interrupt that scene and the player chose the option that she wasn't enjoying herself... Yeah, I guess that could count as well.