Ren'Py Innocence or Money [S2 E2] [MarcialART]

[LonerPrime]

Hi LonerPrime,
Interesting debate.

Hello to you as well, fellow art enjoyer
Okay lets dive into your take!

I do not play the innocence route, hence -snip-

So foremost, lets begin with you never playing the Innocence route. You're absolutely in the right for presuming "Jennifer is used to harassment" opinion in that case- but you'd be a bit wrong here. You see, the way the developer tailored the "pure route" is that he gave the player a critical choice path that essentially locks out most "sexual content". For example:

• Fred, the landlord. Game forces you ONLY ONCE, to be in a situation where she is touched by Fred while cleaning his office. After that you can rebuff his touch and players can actively choose to avoid him for the rest of the game. Money is a no factor either as you can just stick to cleaning the home or simply focus more on Cafe or Massage parlor jobs. Even story critical choice like "sitting with him after the date with Mike" or "refusing him entry into the changing room at the shop", essentially bars all scenarios with him.
• Even at the Cafe, as long as you don't steal any money, the owner there simply does nothing illicit with you. You come, you work, you get paid and you leave.
• Even at the parlor, if you don't kiss Cassandra back and then later don't join her in the gym showers, that path is nothing but you showing up for work, doing nothing, getting paid and leaving.

And all of this rinses and repeats until the Season ends. Then, Fred who is barely a blip on her pervert radar, and essentially a mob character for most of the Innocence path, suddenly gets pushed in the limelight where he aggressively molests Jennifer, like it was a long time coming thing and that she fully understood why. His words are lustful, sharp and devoid of any restraint. A Fred that she has NEVER dealt with before, and yet it makes sense for Jennifer to not be taken aback by a guy whose personality took a 180 degree turn? From a gentle, albeit conniving, employer to a full blown molester, and it's all A-Okay to feel not even a sliver of fear?

I mean I understand your stance- that she is too "bumpkin" to understand SOME nuances of the city life. But then it flies in the face of her reaction at the parlor where she got molested by the fatso customer and nearly went to the police against him. What makes Fred any different here? That he simply backed off? What if he hadn't? Who would have saved her then? The house was empty. Almost no one cares when anyone screams in a city.

Fred had shown a side to her that was dangerous, and a show of restraint once wouldn't mean that he would back off forever. That was made pretty evident in the Innocence Season 1 epilogue where a cackling Fred is shown staring at Jennifer's door monologuing how he would end up inside her room one day and have her way with her, one way or the other.

Honestly, my feeling is that the developer either sensed it himself or perhaps got a bunch of feedback, that the Innocence route is..- well for a lack of better word- boring. If you avoid every corruption choice and simply decide to build a Jennifer fiercely loyal to her dream future with Mike, you get a slogfest of money earning simulations where Jennifer essentially is going to different jobs, doing boring routines and simply buying things slowly over time. The phone > the gym pass > clothes and so forth. In between you see spicy content that involve side characters like Adam, Eve, Jessica etc. But nothing that has the focus on Jennifer as she is stuck waiting for Mike.

Essentially, the AVN elements, that actually make the story fill with content of twists and turns, is stripped away and what is left is..- well frankly, nothing interesting that hasn't been done before. It just feels that MarcialArt wanted to make a game that comes off deep and gives player agency, but ultimately fell to the monotany trap and just ended up pivoting focus on Money, and honestly? I don't blame him. I might not agree with his execution style, but I understand his change of approach.

Anyways, I didn't play Season 2 yet. The game feels like it won't get a fair judgement from me until it's fully complete. That or it simply dies in the Abandonement hell(hopefully not). Either way, good talk

Regards,
LP

 

[StrawberryCheese83]

Hey HikBenAkk,

now i must respectfully disagree with your perspective. Your interpretation of the innocence route as Jenn grappling with temptation misses the mark on what innocence should truly represent. MA seem to have muddled the concept, allowing Jenn, even on this path, to waver in ways that feel inconsistent with the purity the route implies. The nightclub scene....where she drinks, lets her guard down, and permits disgusting advances.....doesn t align with a character steadfastly committed to virtue. Innocence shouldn t mean merely resisting the final step; it should reflect a resolute stand against temptation altogether.
Furthermore, an option should have been included before the club scene. It s very strange that Jenn, who s been avoiding her landlord the whole time, suddenly agrees to go to a club with him. MA could have simply added a choice, and everything would have been peachy. It s just this one missing option that ruins the innocence path.

While I understand the argument that Jenn s human and susceptible to flattery, the innocence route ought to showcase her strength in maintaining her principles, not flirting with compromise under dim lights and alcohol s sway. These moments, even if nuanced, undermine the essence of the path imho. MA should have crafted a clearer distinction, ensuring Jenns actions reflect unwavering integrity rather than a dance with desire. Anything less feels like a departure from the route s intended purpose.

 

[Maviarab]

It s very strange that Jenn, who s been avoiding her landlord the whole time, suddenly agrees to go to a club with him. MA could have simply added a choice, and everything would have been peachy.

This.

 

[mike087]

God, the time between updates is insane. I used to support him when the updates came out in a reasonable time frame, but I stopped when he decided to redo all of season 1's scenes and translate the game to like 50 different languages rather than actually continue the plot. And ever since then, the pace of updates has slowed down even more, which is a shame since the content is pretty good. It just isn't worth paying for 9-12 months to get it.

Bro, season 1 is a gem. Remastering it was a great idea.

 

[Beefy_McAwesomesauce]

Bro, season 1 is a gem. Remastering it was a great idea.

You're probably one of those people who thought it was great to get the "remastered" versions of Horizon Zero Dawn and TLOU 2.

I don't really understand how it was in any way a good idea to just stop development for almost a year, if memory serves, to redo all the content they had just put out. A couple years down the line? Sure. I still think it's pointless, but if that's what he wanted to do, then fine. But stopping development after the big moment at the end of season is ridiculous.

 

[Couto25]

Any news about update?

 

[brt654]

Someone label him as abandoned.

 

[xert13]

Someone label him as abandoned.

Cool your pits Becca - it’s not abandoned. Update most likely this month according to his Patreon.

 

[HeroHate]

Someone label him as abandoned.

Its very, very slow on updates, but eventually (once a year now it seems) it comes out. The bigger question should be the eventual length of the update.

 

[c00000gi]

Someone label him as abandoned.

I've long since believed that the more status updates a dev releases the less they actually work on the game.

 

[HikBenAkk]

I've long since believed that the more status updates a dev releases the less they actually work on the game.

Hi c00000gi,

Possible but I do not think so... This dev writes relevant posts about progression.

Writing posts, even often, is one thing but saying things seemingly relevant about dev status, faking progression, is another thing (much more tricky) : These kinds of scammers, trying to fake they are working, are easy to debunk because it takes a lot of care not to contradict yourself when cheating this way, especially when making software. And sooner or later, you will be expected to post about a release date that cannot be realistic (or lead to highly disappointing updates not matching promises). In other words such bullshit cannot last forever.

That's why such scammers prefer to post nothing for some time and just write some plain "I am alive"-like posts from time to time rather than publishing actual progress reports that they know can be used against them (loss of trust) when obviously visible reality no longer matches.

Warning : I do not say devs posting little are all scammers, I just say it is easier to be a scammer when you get your subscribers used to little reporting.

Best regards.

 

[HikBenAkk]

Its very, very slow on updates[...]. The bigger question should be the eventual length of the update.

True.

This dev usually makes an hour of content (when readnig all lines) in 5-6 months. No reason to think it can be less and if it is as I say, the update could have half as much content as the last ones. All in all it is not the best way : without being able to go faster, it is better to make less content and release sooner.

But some devs cannot resist the temptation to put all their ideas in current updates when they have them rather than postpone them for next update.

 

[HikBenAkk]

Hello to you as well, fellow art enjoyer
Okay lets dive into your take!



So foremost, lets begin with you never playing the Innocence route. You're absolutely in the right for presuming "Jennifer is used to harassment" opinion in that case- but you'd be a bit wrong here. You see, the way the developer tailored the "pure route" is that he gave the player a critical choice path that essentially locks out most "sexual content". For example:

• Fred, the landlord. Game forces you ONLY ONCE, to be in a situation where she is touched by Fred while cleaning his office. After that you can rebuff his touch and players can actively choose to avoid him for the rest of the game. Money is a no factor either as you can just stick to cleaning the home or simply focus more on Cafe or Massage parlor jobs. Even story critical choice like "sitting with him after the date with Mike" or "refusing him entry into the changing room at the shop", essentially bars all scenarios with him.
• Even at the Cafe, as long as you don't steal any money, the owner there simply does nothing illicit with you. You come, you work, you get paid and you leave.
• Even at the parlor, if you don't kiss Cassandra back and then later don't join her in the gym showers, that path is nothing but you showing up for work, doing nothing, getting paid and leaving.

And all of this rinses and repeats until the Season ends. Then, Fred who is barely a blip on her pervert radar, and essentially a mob character for most of the Innocence path, suddenly gets pushed in the limelight where he aggressively molests Jennifer, like it was a long time coming thing and that she fully understood why. His words are lustful, sharp and devoid of any restraint. A Fred that she has NEVER dealt with before, and yet it makes sense for Jennifer to not be taken aback by a guy whose personality took a 180 degree turn? From a gentle, albeit conniving, employer to a full blown molester, and it's all A-Okay to feel not even a sliver of fear?

I mean I understand your stance- that she is too "bumpkin" to understand SOME nuances of the city life. But then it flies in the face of her reaction at the parlor where she got molested by the fatso customer and nearly went to the police against him. What makes Fred any different here? That he simply backed off? What if he hadn't? Who would have saved her then? The house was empty. Almost no one cares when anyone screams in a city.

Fred had shown a side to her that was dangerous, and a show of restraint once wouldn't mean that he would back off forever. That was made pretty evident in the Innocence Season 1 epilogue where a cackling Fred is shown staring at Jennifer's door monologuing how he would end up inside her room one day and have her way with her, one way or the other.

Honestly, my feeling is that the developer either sensed it himself or perhaps got a bunch of feedback, that the Innocence route is..- well for a lack of better word- boring. If you avoid every corruption choice and simply decide to build a Jennifer fiercely loyal to her dream future with Mike, you get a slogfest of money earning simulations where Jennifer essentially is going to different jobs, doing boring routines and simply buying things slowly over time. The phone > the gym pass > clothes and so forth. In between you see spicy content that involve side characters like Adam, Eve, Jessica etc. But nothing that has the focus on Jennifer as she is stuck waiting for Mike.

Essentially, the AVN elements, that actually make the story fill with content of twists and turns, is stripped away and what is left is..- well frankly, nothing interesting that hasn't been done before. It just feels that MarcialArt wanted to make a game that comes off deep and gives player agency, but ultimately fell to the monotany trap and just ended up pivoting focus on Money, and honestly? I don't blame him. I might not agree with his execution style, but I understand his change of approach.

Anyways, I didn't play Season 2 yet. The game feels like it won't get a fair judgement from me until it's fully complete. That or it simply dies in the Abandonement hell(hopefully not). Either way, good talk

Regards,
LP

Hi LonerPrime,

Very interesting talk, I like it a lot !

I think that neither you nor me are wrong about the Innocence route...

I understand your points that are relevant : The fact that you can cancel all harassment attempts from landlords or make them non-existent makes you think you can avoid temptations for MC.
It is legit to think that way because it makes sense.

On the other hand, mine to think MC is more and more tempted after all landlord's attempt that are just canceled (like changing room) makes sense as well : she is aware of her landlord intentions towards her and even on innocence route, I think he is the same pervy guy but less aggressive.
I think that the fact your points differ from mine about the innocence route, only means the innocence route may lack content that should have been in the game to make it crystal clear to us about MC's evolution : your way or mine (for example, from rejecting her landlord to be tempted by him as seen is season 2).

I see Innocence in the game as MC to manage to reject advances from pervy guys despite being tempted. Those pervy guys are her relatives in the city like her landlord and the coffee shop owner.

To come to this definition of Innocence, I used forced events for ALL routes (Innocence and Money) in which MC was harassed and how she reacted.
As I said it, for me, her landlord is the same pervy guy regardless the route : he will never rape her but he will not hesitate to harass her if he has the opportunity and thinks it can help him reach his goal to fuck her. As you said it, he did harassment at least once at the beginning and it is not avoidable : that makes it clear to me he is not the perfect gentleman ^^!.

The innocence route may be "empty" with sexual content so far, and at the beginning nothing really happens, I guess, but I think, if I am right, about MC's temptations, there is something interesting to explore for the dev to see how MC is changing, getting less and less naive while resisting temptations : you can do it girl ! ^^
It also makes sense that despite she is more and more tempted, she is willing to resist because her bf is not the usual NTR cowardly loser : he protected MC and her sister from two thugs... he is kind and he showed that he deeply loves her, hence he can be seen to be worth it by a girl (I say that regardless my opinion : for me he is too naive and made a mistake to refuse to have sex with her)

The most important is to figure out what the dev is trying to do in his Innocence route :

• If you are right, it does not make sense to have her being tempted by other guys later in the game. The nightclub in which she is dancing and smiling at her landlord fondling her, barely pass because she was drunk... Due to too much alcohol, everyone can do crazy things ^^! And here it reveals how much sexually frustrated she is and that she feels flattered to be hit on despite remaining faithful.
• If I am right, season 1 did not show enough on the most "innocent route" (losing the min of innocence points) to show her to be tempted no matter what but being able to resist such cheating temptation.

There is also an event in season 1 I think to be among the most important if not the most important : in the pizza restaurant when MC and her Bf were dating. She almost begged him to have sex with her but he refused not wanting to face his father's anger. That was a major event that upset MC and I think it is the key that really make her tempted by other guys.
IRL, a girl as hot as she is would have dumped her BF and find another one in a minute ^^.

I do not really care about the innocence route but you have identified some important points for this route : I will speak to the dev about them.

Best regards.

 

[HikBenAkk]

Hey HikBenAkk,

now i must respectfully disagree with your perspective. Your interpretation of the innocence route as Jenn grappling with temptation misses the mark on what innocence should truly represent. MA seem to have muddled the concept, allowing Jenn, even on this path, to waver in ways that feel inconsistent with the purity the route implies. The nightclub scene....where she drinks, lets her guard down, and permits disgusting advances.....doesn t align with a character steadfastly committed to virtue. Innocence shouldn t mean merely resisting the final step; it should reflect a resolute stand against temptation altogether.
[...]

While I understand the argument that Jenn s human and susceptible to flattery, the innocence route ought to showcase her strength in maintaining her principles, not flirting with compromise under dim lights and alcohol s sway. These moments, even if nuanced, undermine the essence of the path imho. MA should have crafted a clearer distinction, ensuring Jenns actions reflect unwavering integrity rather than a dance with desire. Anything less feels like a departure from the route s intended purpose.

Hi StrawberryCheese83,

I disagree with your "should" here underlined (and bolded by me in the quote).
That is YOUR definition of Innocence not THE definition of it.
Who decided that such a concept which is built through game design cannot but be universal and unique ?

The only rule is to stay consistent with the design definitions and rules you put in your game : if you are not, the story and game will be bad (storyline/storytelling bugs). That's all...

Here the Innocence seems to be about how she can resist to temptations by others than her bf. I suggest you to read my post to LonerPrime above about that matter to get how the game content built my opinion about it (the Innocence in the game). All in all, the dev's choices only matter here, neither yours nor mine : that is how it works ^^!

MC is a girl with low self-esteem and low self-confidence. After her BF refused to have sex with her, it is legit to think she started to find herself not attractive enough for anyone and at the same time to doubt about her bf true feelings for her. Hence, to see her being flattered to be hit on, even by pervy guys like her landlord and his pervy friend makes sense even on Innocence route as long as she does not go further than some groping, fondling and even kisses : we are adults, not teens that blush when they see people kiss each other...^^

If you ever make a game that implements Innocence your way, I will defend it the same way I do it here : devs are owner of their game, thus they decide on the rules (but they are expected to stick on them as well ^^). We can like or not what they make BUT we are not legit to question decisions they make... Apart from inconsistencies in storytelling : Storyline choices cannot be questioned BUT when storytelling does not follow storyline, it is a mistake.

[...]Furthermore, an option should have been included before the club scene. It s very strange that Jenn, who s been avoiding her landlord the whole time, suddenly agrees to go to a club with him. MA could have simply added a choice, and everything would have been peachy. It s just this one missing option that ruins the innocence path.

You have a point here, if the dev is consistent about the Innocent route, MC should not make the same mistake again ^^

Best regards.

 

[Maviarab]

That is YOUR definition of Innocence not THE definition of it.
Who decided that such a concept which is built through game design cannot but be universal and unique ?

Here the Innocence seems to be about how she can resist to temptations by others than her bf.

Who decied (other than yourself) that this is the definition hmmmm?

Bottom line is this. On the innocence route, she should not be kissing or being groped by people you have flat out refused and avoided since day one. Especially people she only met that night for the first time. Drink is NEVER an excuse for anything, it's a lame cop-out and you know it is. Until the dev himself puts in writing, what 'his' definition is (so there can be no further misintrepation...which I doubt he seriously ever would), you're just making shit up to try and argue with people.

There's really nothing else to be said.

And btw...if quoting someone, you really don't need to be tagging them either.

 

[StrawberryCheese83]

Who decied (other than yourself) that this is the definition hmmmm?

Bottom line is this. On the innocence route, she should not be kissing or being groped by people you have flat out refused and avoided since day one. Especially people she only met that night for the first time. Drink is NEVER an excuse for anything, it's a lame cop-out and you know it is. Until the dev himself puts in writing, what 'his' definition is (so there can be no further misintrepation...which I doubt he seriously ever would), you're just making shit up to try and argue with people.

There's really nothing else to be said.

And btw...if quoting someone, you really don't need to be tagging them either.

....guess i need a new helmet... after this....

 

[HikBenAkk]

Who decied (other than yourself) that this is the definition hmmmm?

Bottom line is this. On the innocence route, she should not be kissing or being groped by people you have flat out refused and avoided since day one. Especially people she only met that night for the first time. Drink is NEVER an excuse for anything, it's a lame cop-out and you know it is. Until the dev himself puts in writing, what 'his' definition is (so there can be no further misintrepation...which I doubt he seriously ever would), you're just making shit up to try and argue with people.

There's really nothing else to be said.

Hi Maviarab,

You quoted well : I said "seems to be"... I have not decided or affirmed anything as true.

In this debate, I tried to figure out what Innocence can be in the game : the dev only decides as I said it.
I also said to LonerPrimer I agree the Innocence route may lack information about it.

I do not care about the Innocence path, I have never really questionned myself about it, but this discussion is interesting at least for me if not for you. I ask you to be less aggressive, please.

About alcohol, is it that unrealistic that, for example, some drunk partying girls can wake up in the morning with an ugly guy they would never want to have sex with if not drunk ?
Come on ! That said, what are some kissing and groping then when inhibitions fall due to alcohol for a girl with such low self esteem as MC has ?

Now it is really an end of discussion if you do not want to pursue it.

Best regards.

 

[Maviarab]

You quoted well : I said "seems to be"... I have not decided or affirmed anything as true.

You first questioned cheese with your holier than though attitude regarding who defines innocence?

Innocence is a lack of guilt, with respect to any kind of crime, or wrongdoing.

The quality of not having much experience of life and not knowing about the bad things that happen in life

Literally the dictionary definitions dude...no need to assert anything or 'define'...it's already defined.

I do not care about the Innocence path,

And that's part of the problem. Maybe try playing it before trying to state opinions as facts and throwing your weight around regarding it as some kind of authority hmmm?

About alcohol, is it that unrealistic that, for example, some drunk partying girls can wake up in the morning with an ugly guy they would never want to have sex with if not drunk ?
Come on ! That said, what are some kissing and groping then when inhibitions fall due to alcohol for a girl with such low self esteem as MC has ?

Ohhhh I'm sorry I spent the night making out with your father and then blew best friend HikBen...I'd been drinking...it didn't mean anything...I still love you...not my fault I was drinking, tripped over a rug and fell onto your brothers cock....I'm...innocent....I didn't know what I was doing....

Be serious please....they know what they are doing....

 

[HikBenAkk]

You first questioned cheese with your holier than though attitude regarding who defines innocence?

Literally the dictionary definitions dude...no need to assert anything or 'define'...it's already defined.

And that's part of the problem. Maybe try playing it before trying to state opinions as facts and throwing your weight around regarding it as some kind of authority hmmm?

I am also a dev for more than 10 years... Dictionary is not almighty Knowledge providing answer to all questions, "dude".
For example, define what a customer is... You will have differences from the dictionary in each software that designs and implements it according to its needs.
It even happened to me in my job to question the words used to name some notions used in the business... Until I get why they use them.
Another example, do you think the definition of Dexterity from dictionary can help you get at 100% what is its use in player stats page of RPGs ? It can also differ and not refer to the same effect to max its value from a kind of game to another (Fantasy, sci-fi...).
That is the reason I do not stack to one unique definition even if it comes from dictionary : the word used "customer" is just a way to make it easier to get the notion they refer to.

That's why I am open-minded about the definiton of "Innocence" in this game...

However :
Innocence implementation in Innocence route shows holes that should not exist if game were precise enough about its definition: StrawberryCheese83, LonerPrime disagree about the way it is in the game and I just tried, through the discussion, to understand how it is implemented in the game despite I never played that route : do you get that ?

Ohhhh I'm sorry I spent the night making out with your father and then blew best friend HikBen...I'd been drinking...it didn't mean anything...I still love you...not my fault I was drinking, tripped over a rug and fell onto your brothers cock....I'm...innocent....I didn't know what I was doing....

Be serious please....they know what they are doing....

I kind of like your sense of humour... Really. You can call me Hik, that is the way all name me

More seriously, I never stated such behavior to be smart or anything like that, in fact it is VERY stupid from a girl to drink too much alcohol while partying with friends and end up be fucked by the first random guy that tried his luck.
I just meant it happens IRL, girls to make such mistakes and that makes it believable to be in the game.
Girls need to know their limit with alcohol to not make such a mistake.

Here, from what I saw in nightclub, MC does not know her limit (she seems to not be aware of it) and then I imagine what happened to her to be a bit like if GHB (rape drug) was involved when in innocent route (accepting fondling) : she was uninhibited enough for her sexual frustation to surface and accept grope maybe to prove herself she can be desired. Who knows ? As I said it, there is not enough information to know that for sure.
In Money route (corruption route), the interpretation of her behavior is, obviously, easier.

Must such an mistake she did with alcohol necessarily mean a loss of Innocence ?
Given the way I undestood how Innocence is made in the game, I just say the loss of Innocence (MC to not qualify to remain as innocent as she was before the event) is not the obvious consequence that makes sense.

I may be wrong and the dev only knows the answer : and I insist... I may be wrong but you and all here can as well.
Just not all in the same time of course...

 

[StrawberryCheese83]

I am also a dev for more than 10 years... Dictionary is not almighty Knowledge providing answer to all questions, "dude".
For example, define what a customer is... You will have differences from the dictionary in each software that designs and implements it according to its needs.
It even happened to me in my job to question the words used to name some notions used in the business... Until I get why they use them.
That is the reason I do not stack to one unique definition even if it comes from dictionary : the word used "customer" is just a way to make it easier to get the notion they refer to.

That's why I am open-minded about the definiton of "Innocence" in this game...

However :
Innocence implementation in Innocence route shows holes that should not exist if game were precise enough about its definition: StrawberryCheese83, LonerPrime disagree about the way it is in the game and I just tried, through the discussion, to understand how it is implemented in the game despite I never played that route : do you get that ?




I kind of like your sense of humour... Really.

More seriously, I never stated such behavior to be smart or anything like that, in fact it is VERY stupid from a girl to drink too much alcohol while partying with friends and end up be fucked by the first random guy that tried his luck.
I just said it happens IRL, girls to make such mistakes and that makes it believable to be in the game.
Girls need to know their limit with alcohol to not make such a mistake.

Here, from what I saw in nightclub, MC does not know her limit (she seems to not be aware of it) and then I see what happened to her a bit like if GHB (rape drug) was involved when in innocent route (accepting fondling) : she was uninhibited enough for her sexual frustation to surface and accept grope maybe to prove herself she can be desired. Who knows ? As I said it, there is not enough information to know that for sure.
In Money route (corruption route), the interpretation of her behavior is, obviously, easier.

Must such an mistake she did with alcohol necessarily mean a loss of Innocence ?
Given the way I undestood how Innocence is made in the game, I just say the loss of Innocence (MC to not qualify to remain as innocent as she was before the event) is not the obvious consequence that makes sense.

I may be wrong and the dev only knows the answer : and I insist... I may be wrong but you and all here can as well.
Just not all in the same time of course...

It all boils down to ONE MISSING OPTION! And we wouldn t have needed to have this whole conversation. To this day, i still don t understand why he (MA) didn t add that missing option for Jenn (or us Players). If Jenn (on the Innocence Path) had consistently made the same "good" choices, that one missing option wouldn t have derailed the rest of the story. The story could’ve continued perfectly fine... even without Fred!