Ren'Py Innocence or Money [S2 E2] [MarcialART]
- Thread starter MarcialART
- Start date
- Oct 10, 2019
- 956
- 816
No the game is bad, it could have the greatest animation ever but if it takes a year to come out for a snippet its pointless, they give no work in progress reports where they show the activity, they could be sitting an three or four updates and throwing those out every six months while they rake in the cash. The developer is too aggressive when people make requests on release dates "I'll tell you seven days before" but gives no hint as to the real date. Its not bashing either, they are getting paid and taking money, its my opinion (based on previous support) just one mans observation to give a greater insight on a product.
The game developer wrote on patreon that it was at 85/87% since the completion of v0.0.8 on June 11.
So mathematically speaking holding 85%
if it started on 24/02, 107 days had passed
Now with a first degree equation
107 : gg = 85 : 100
gg = 125.88 sooooooo
24/02+125.88 = July 1
so tier 3 or higher from July 3 in theory
considering instead 87% the release would be the week before
mmmm this reminds me of something wait....
magic prevision
i'm a fucking magician!!!!
and therefore it also seem plausible
that when one writes so many walls of text at the end of the day he doesn't have shit to say
Hi wlazinna,The game developer wrote on patreon that it was at 85/87% since the completion of v0.0.8 on June 11.
So mathematically speaking holding 85%
if it started on 24/02, 107 days had passed
Now with a first degree equation
107 : gg = 85 : 100
gg = 125.88 sooooooo
24/02+125.88 = July 1
so tier 3 or higher from July 3 in theory
considering instead 87% the release would be the week before
mmmm this reminds me of something wait....
magic prevision
i'm a fucking magician!!!!
and therefore it also seem plausible
that when one writes so many walls of text at the end of the day he doesn't have shit to say
Another guy from this forum trying to teach people like me my job as a software developer, which I've been doing for over 11 years... I hate you : right now, I have tears in my eyes and my stomach hurts because of too much laughing...
I have a question : what if the dev here decides for V0.09 to develop a single small event delivered three weeks after the release of v0.08 that needs to happen?
How reliable will you see your fantastic math ?
BUT, You may be right... Sadly for you, it only will be luck if so... Nothing more...
The only one to have the ACTUAL infos up-to-date about dev progressiobn is the dev, NO ONE else...
Sorry for you but when developers talk about completion percentage, they usually don't talk in terms of duration but of content done (for example three events done (renderings and coding) out of four)... the 13-15% that remains to be done (you know 100 - 87/85) can take a week as well as another full month depending on the complexity of the content to make...
I use that for software planification:
You must be registered to see the links
and
You must be registered to see the links
and for years dude !...
I have meetings with the developers in my team every day in the morning to report on their progress because a linear approach is not possible... it is called the "daily meeting" even outside english speaking countries like mine...
Such meetings are done even in big companies like Apple, Microsoft and Facebook in their dev teams...
But maybe pro devs like those guys and me are just incompetent if a simple math "first degree equation" give all answers our customers need to know about the remaining workload...
Too bad we didn't think of that before, thank you very much...
My stomach...
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Hi HappyNuts,
No news about a release date so far from the dev...
wlazinna : all people here that post anything about that are only daydreaming and spreading fake news...
Best regards
Here, it is obvious what you say is YOUR opinion, I have nothing to complain with except to highly disagree... See the difference ?
My question remains : if you think the game is bad, why do you continue to follow it ?
Nope... I saw him answer dozens of time about that question without being aggressive... I saw him once or two lose his zen attitude when pestered too often by the same guy with that question...
The dev has no obligation towards us... None...
To get paid, you need a work contract... Did you sign something that would make this dev work for us?
The money we give him is more of a gift (patronage) than a payment.
You can try to convince yourself as much as you want, it will not change this reality...
People like me give money because they trust the dev, that's all... There is no certainty that we are right doing so just as there is no certainty that we are wrong...
Trust only binds those who believe in it.
- Jul 13, 2018
- 558
- 1,179
Oh wow, I've been following this game for some time, but I didn't know it had so many supporters.
How is the development on this one? Does the dev put some elbow grease or is it radiant level of progress(i.e 10 minutes of content after 1 year of development)?
How is the development on this one? Does the dev put some elbow grease or is it radiant level of progress(i.e 10 minutes of content after 1 year of development)?
- Jul 13, 2018
- 558
- 1,179
Glad I made you laugh.Hi wlazinna,
Another guy from this forum trying to teach people like me my job as a software developer, which I've been doing for over 11 years... I hate you : right now, I have tears in my eyes and my stomach hurts because of too much laughing...
I have a question : what if the dev here decides for V0.09 to develop a single small event delivered three weeks after the release of v0.08 that needs to happen?
How reliable will you see your fantastic math ?
BUT, You may be right... Sadly for you, it only will be luck if so... Nothing more...
The only one to have the ACTUAL infos up-to-date about dev progressiobn is the dev, NO ONE else...
Sorry for you but when developers talk about completion percentage, they usually don't talk in terms of duration but of content done (for example three events done (renderings and coding) out of four)... the 13-15% that remains to be done (you know 100 - 87/85) can take a week as well as another full month depending on the complexity of the content to make...
I use that for software planification:
You must be registered to see the links
and
You must be registered to see the links
and for years dude !...
I have meetings with the developers in my team every day in the morning to report on their progress because a linear approach is not possible... it is called the "daily meeting" even outside english speaking countries like mine...
Such meetings are done even in big companies like Apple, Microsoft and Facebook in their dev teams...
But maybe pro devs like those guys and me are just incompetent if a simple math "first degree equation" give all answers our customers need to know about the remaining workload...
Too bad we didn't think of that before, thank you very much...
My stomach...
However, you are probably a developer who has to answer to a lead developer.
The developer who develops on Patreon doesn't have to answer to a boss, he has to answer to the patrons, and believe me, they don't really care about the subtleties you've presented.
Hi zedascove,
The game is very good (I like it a lot) and it is far from being as bad as many claim here either
BUT
The game is not at radiant level either: the dev still has to improve his workload management... He is late again...
Best regards.
You are welcome
You are close... I am the lead developer in my team and I have to answer to the project Product Owner who is part of my customer team.
Some may think the way you say but not all, especially those who give money monthly...
Patrons, like me are not the dev's boss... As I said to HeroHate, there is no agreement saying that.
Therefore, the dev owes nothing to his patrons...
However to retain his subscribers, he must find solutions to gain their trust... By showing progression on a regular pace, explaining the dificulties he meets and so on...
As a subscriber myself, I have the feeling he does a good job on that despite, as I said above to rain675, I would not report the way he does If I were the dev of this game.
I'm not saying I'm right to trust him but no one can say I'm wrong either : that is how patronage works...
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I mentioned this difference in work because, in this situation, the head of department knows the dynamics of the work.You are welcome
You are close... I am the lead developer in my team and I have to answer to the project Product Owner who is part of my customer team.
Some may think the way you say but not all, especially those who give money monthly...
Patrons, like me are not the dev's boss... As I said to HeroHate, there is no agreement saying that.
Therefore, the dev owes nothing to his patrons...
However to retain his subscribers, he must find solutions to gain their trust... By showing progression on a regular pace, explaining the dificulties he meets and so on...
As a subscriber myself, I have the feeling he does a good job on that despite, as I said above to rain675, I would not report the way he does If I were the dev of this game.
I'm not saying I'm right to trust him but no one can say I'm wrong either : that is how patronage works...
Certainly not to know your working situation, which can be a made-up fairy tale, because behind a keyboard you can be whoever you want to be.
This is my last answer, as you tend to deviate quite a bit from the main argument I made, which was about the release date.
I did not talk about the quality of the product and your discussions with others on the forum.
I would just like to add that you are not the representative of the 1680 patrons of MarcialArt's Patreon page.
The patrons are his bosses, they are the ones who sustain his lifestyle. He cannot afford to lose them.
Bye
Hi wlazinna,
That's why his 7-day rule (to only tell seven days before launch) is not a bad idea to counter his flaw, if development is done and only unit tests remains at that very moment, tell about it makes sense because it is reliable.
That's why I do not worry because the dev seems to me to be dedicated to his work about the game and sooner or later he will improve... All dedicated devs improve if they do not give up.
I do not see this dev as being among those who are the least respectful of his subscribers: he has shown that when it is necessary to communicate, he does it.
So, let's say we agree to disagree on this matter.
Bye.
You are right here, and my aim was not to speak about myself : anyway, it's not important here. I just wanted to show you that I know what I am talking about.
It was also not my aim to deviate about your topic of release date : The fact that your calculation does not make sense doesn't take away the fact that the dev is late and still has problems estimating reliably his workload. I said it here recently... Therefore, as far I see the situation, even if he is close to the end of the development as he said it with his percentage of 85-87%, I think that no one, including the dev is able to tell when the update can be released... before he actually tells it... Voice of experience...
That's why his 7-day rule (to only tell seven days before launch) is not a bad idea to counter his flaw, if development is done and only unit tests remains at that very moment, tell about it makes sense because it is reliable.
That's why I do not worry because the dev seems to me to be dedicated to his work about the game and sooner or later he will improve... All dedicated devs improve if they do not give up.
Obviously.
I disagree with that... I have a very precise vision of what a boss is (work side) and there is a lot missing here to fit this definition... For example, a boss can fire you and replace you to resume the task : here, if the dev is not here, the task dies.
To be able to dedicate time in making the game, yes, you must be right (it explains why the dev opened a Patreon page after all). Imho, the relationship between subscribers and dev is above all a question of balance in commucation and trust rather than see the susbcribers as the dev's "bosses". A lot of devs have subscribers and don't post anything for weeks without losing them... Such a situation does not match with a subscriber=boss definition.
I do not see this dev as being among those who are the least respectful of his subscribers: he has shown that when it is necessary to communicate, he does it.
So, let's say we agree to disagree on this matter.
Bye.
Bad because the dev is more engaged with marketing rather than the game's actual development.
- Aug 16, 2019
- 76
- 133
yeah, his development is VERY SLOW, all the hype because of hot af female MC
..a hot mc that wants to be a virgin up until we are all dead IRL.
- Oct 10, 2019
- 956
- 816
Is heading towards two updates a year, at the moment its three, and the content is lacking in quantity. They give little in the way of progress reports. Guess it looks okay, but for a pornographic game there's little of that in it, might be okay in three years unless they ditch it for something that pays better. I get accused of simply hating this game, but I see the potential and more, besides that they're getting paid and its a product.
Complete bullshit...
What facts are you relying on to be able to say that ?
As I said to wlazinna, the fact an update required, for example four months, does NOT imply that the next one to need 6 or 7 months !!
The updates are independent of each other...
How long an update takes to develop depends only on how much content the developer chooses to put into it at the beginning and how well he can correctly estimate the resulting workload: nothing else !! Period !!
What you do here, is just trying to fool people...
* facepalm *
See reply above in this post...
Saying so much bullshit to the detriment of the game means bashing it, yes... You say "to see the potential (of the game I guess)" but you consider it a viable solution to ditch it the same way you suggested the dev to give up making games a while ago *facepalm* *facepalm*
Before you keep complaining as if people like me are unfair to you saying it, you better wonder WHY...
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- Apr 11, 2020
- 343
- 655
Just some cold facts about IoM updates:
IoM initial launch - 16.07.2021
0.0.2 - 17.09.2021, took 64 days to publish (~5.7 updates per year at this pace)
0.0.3 - 4.12.2021, 79 days (~4.6)
0.0.4 - 20.03.2022, 107 days (~3.4)
0.0.5 - 13.06.2022, 86 days (~4.2)
0.0.6 - 10.10.2022, 120 days (~3)
0.0.7 - 24.02.2023, 138 days (~2.6)
Today, 21.06.2023, 118 days and counting
* Release dates are taken from MarcialART's Patreon page (for Nightly Massage Members and above).
* Number of days includes the release day.
* I couldn't find any comparable data about the content of updates (like number of new renders, lines of codes, animations etc) as MarcialART doesn't publish it, at least not for a general public. So any mechanical collation of those numbers assumes that the updates are equal.
IoM initial launch - 16.07.2021
0.0.2 - 17.09.2021, took 64 days to publish (~5.7 updates per year at this pace)
0.0.3 - 4.12.2021, 79 days (~4.6)
0.0.4 - 20.03.2022, 107 days (~3.4)
0.0.5 - 13.06.2022, 86 days (~4.2)
0.0.6 - 10.10.2022, 120 days (~3)
0.0.7 - 24.02.2023, 138 days (~2.6)
Today, 21.06.2023, 118 days and counting
* Release dates are taken from MarcialART's Patreon page (for Nightly Massage Members and above).
* Number of days includes the release day.
* I couldn't find any comparable data about the content of updates (like number of new renders, lines of codes, animations etc) as MarcialART doesn't publish it, at least not for a general public. So any mechanical collation of those numbers assumes that the updates are equal.