VN Ren'Py Isabella - Chasing Shadows [Ch. 4.3] [badtimetales]

[badtimetales]

When you mention you have a higher end anything, people with low-spec hardware are always going to be vocal. I'm rocking an AMD 7950xt with a 7900xtx, I don't do Daz, so Nvidia isn't something I need. But, yeah, people get jealous and will facepalm and become very vocal over it.

My hardware setup is in the middle of what you need for decent daz renders.

The problem is the time it takes to set up scenes.
Scene setup, posing, lights, DOF and so on.

Kitbashing a scene takes 1-6 hours, getting the lights right 2-3 hours.
For the single scene renders it depends on the scene.
5-60 minutes posing and lighting.


Some people doing the posing would help a lot.
But it's not that simple.

 

[Deleted member 1571716]

My hardware setup is in the middle of what you need for decent daz renders.

The problem is the time it takes to set up scenes.
Scene setup, posing, lights, DOF and so on.

Kitbashing a scene takes 1-6 hours, getting the lights right 2-3 hours.
For the single scene renders it depends on the scene.
5-60 minutes posing and lighting.


Some people doing the posing would help a lot.
But it's not that simple.

I have few friends that are devs and yeah, they say that setting up the scenes is, while not the hardest part, but, the most time consuming portion when it comes to rendering. Tbf I have no idea what they're talking about most times though. lol

 

[hampsure]

When you mention you have a higher end anything, people with low-spec hardware are always going to be vocal. I'm rocking an AMD 7950xt with a 7900xtx, I don't do Daz, so Nvidia isn't something I need. But, yeah, people get jealous and will facepalm and become very vocal over it.

Not sure if it's better or worse than (likely just a variation of) in the "more traditional" gaming space where people do the opposite over playing a game on anything but the newest hardware. Neither makes a lot of sense.

My hardware setup is in the middle of what you need for decent daz renders.

Still amazes me what's possible these days regardless with software and hardware that are available for PCs compared to what I had access to when I was into 3D modelling/animation as a hobby in the early 90s. Regarding finding help with posing that is rough I would assume... usually people that have the right level of knowledge are either working on bigger things or too busy. It's the same for a lot of things beyond this industry - finding people with just enough technical knowledge/ability that aren't looking for something more is always difficult to do for certain roles.

 

[Deleted member 1571716]

Not sure if it's better or worse than (likely just a variation of) in the "more traditional" gaming space where people do the opposite over playing a game on anything but the newest hardware. Neither makes a lot of sense.

I don't know. I'm an old dude and I just prefer to have the latest hardware. But, in doing so, we're basically paying to be testers for these companies. I even bought an Intel ARC A770 just to play around with. It's not great, but, it will do for a lower budget gamer. It's now boxed back up and sitting in a closet waiting for me to do something with it at some point. Just not sure what.

 

[PapaPhat]

My hardware setup is in the middle of what you need for decent daz renders.

The problem is the time it takes to set up scenes.
Scene setup, posing, lights, DOF and so on.

Kitbashing a scene takes 1-6 hours, getting the lights right 2-3 hours.
For the single scene renders it depends on the scene.
5-60 minutes posing and lighting.


Some people doing the posing would help a lot.
But it's not that simple.

Never give up, my friend. You'll get it!
Carry on!

 

[Elduriel]

Never give up, my friend. You'll get it!
Carry on!

fuck, I love that movie...

 

[hampsure]

I don't know. I'm an old dude and I just prefer to have the latest hardware. But, in doing so, we're basically paying to be testers for these companies. I even bought an Intel ARC A770 just to play around with. It's not great, but, it will do for a lower budget gamer. It's now boxed back up and sitting in a closet waiting for me to do something with it at some point. Just not sure what.

I totally get that... I always bought pretty much top of the the line when I could (used to be really into playing with the latest technologies even if I didn't need them) but these days I buy new stuff way less often and need to be able to rely on it so when I do buy I get stuff that's not quite bleeding edge but still will do the job well for a while. Speaking of which I've been stalling on buying a new system for a good while and need one like yesterday.

 

[badtimetales]

ill amazes me what's possible these days regardless with software and hardware that are available for PCs compared to what I had access to when I was into 3D modelling/animation as a hobby in the early 90s. Regarding finding help with posing that is rough I would assume...

Yeah, it's a big step forward, even in the last years.

What hasn't changed is the incompatibility between programs.
Using a Daz figure in other programs like Blender is a pain in the ass.

For posing, it's much more difficult.
Every dev has his style.
Expressions, Lights, Cam.
It would be difficult enough to find somebody close to that. And you would have to trust that guy a 100%.

I even bought an Intel ARC A770 just to play around with.

Sorry, but why?!
That hardware was just a disappointment. I didn't expect Intel to be as good as NV or AMD, but .....
That was a "we tried and failed".
They might try to integrate that as an integrated CPU option. If that doesn't work, I guess they will stop it real soon.

Never give up, my friend. You'll get it!

Thanks.
You are my moral boost

 

[Deleted member 1571716]

Sorry, but why?!
That hardware was just a disappointment. I didn't expect Intel to be as good as NV or AMD, but .....
That was a "we tried and failed".
They might try to integrate that as an integrated CPU option. If that doesn't work, I guess they will stop it real soon.

Because I wanted to. Simple. But, it's actually decent. Kind of. Eh, it's bad actually. But.... The drivers were shit before and they keep getting better. At some point I'll put together a budget build for someone with it and just give it away. Better to have something than nothing.

 

[badtimetales]

Cozy Sunday. Have a good start into the new week

 

[Deleted member 4654353]

My hardware setup is in the middle of what you need for decent daz renders.

The problem is the time it takes to set up scenes.
Scene setup, posing, lights, DOF and so on.

Kitbashing a scene takes 1-6 hours, getting the lights right 2-3 hours.
For the single scene renders it depends on the scene.
5-60 minutes posing and lighting.


Some people doing the posing would help a lot.
But it's not that simple.

 

[badtimetales]

Guys, I'm not giving up

Sorry if i gave that impression.

 

[PapaPhat]

Guys, I'm not giving up

Sorry if i gave that impression.

I did catch a whiff of "frustration quit" from some of your recent commentary. Not to say you were quitting or even that I thought you would, just that I could hear your frustration with the various challenges you are facing. And, that is perfectly fine. We all have our own unique struggles. It is a sure sign that you are leading a life worth living. Please don't feel the need to apologize for sharing your challenges with your friends and fans. We keep showing up because we love you and what you do, BTT. You have a special gift for story telling that makes us care about the characters you create. That draws us in and makes us care about you too. So, we want to hear about the challenges as well as the successes. It's not only acceptable but expected that when the challenges mount up that we take a break, breathe, rest, then return to the challenge with a freshly rested perspective.

I have but one "word to the wise" for you today, my friend... When you are going through hell, don't stop! If you stop you will never get through that hell to the fresh air of victory on the other side. When you don't stop, you eventually reach the other side and can breathe the free air once again. However, it is always fine to take a break and recharge.

Again, I didn't think you were going to quit, just saw the signs of a struggle and offered encouragement. I'm sure that is what your other friends and fans are doing as well. You have no reason to apologize but know that if there were, you are already forgiven. I wish you all the peace, love, joy and prosperity you can get, my friend. Just remember that when we say, "don't quit" that we don't actually think you are quitting, it's the best we know to say and hope it helps encourage you to keep going.

Adventure ever on, Phat

 

[badtimetales]

I did catch a whiff of "frustration quit" from some of your recent commentary.

I have but one "word to the wise" for you today, my friend... When you are going through hell, don't stop!

just saw the signs of a struggle and offered encouragement.

Reactions, or the lack of it, are quite frustrating.
But it is like it is, and i've made peace with it.

The times where you upload a more or less good VN and get 500 likes in a week are over, unless you have some good connections though.

If I'm tired with the development, I do something else. Like the special renders today, or playing with Blender.

And .... you can offer encouragement every time you want

 

[Majindevil]

My hardware setup is in the middle of what you need for decent daz renders.

The problem is the time it takes to set up scenes.
Scene setup, posing, lights, DOF and so on.

Kitbashing a scene takes 1-6 hours, getting the lights right 2-3 hours.
For the single scene renders it depends on the scene.
5-60 minutes posing and lighting.


Some people doing the posing would help a lot.
But it's not that simple.

i can understand this problem really good posing can really be a big pain even when you use premade poses depending on the used chars you have to make so much adjustments to even align the chars right.
and speaking of posing sex scenes brr.... so much fine tuning to make it look realistic (gens and bending are not friends...)
and lighning is an even bigger nightmare (working with an old gtx 970 so i have mostly only the option to render without background and then photoshop all together or just use HDR lighning)
neverless it became a hobby and have a lot of fun with it even when i cant render all scenes i set up cause hardware limitations
(or just render a single image for 10 hours...)

Spoiler: excample lighning

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Spoiler: Posing

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[badtimetales]

yep, sex scenes are time consuming.
I'm quite good at it now so I won't complain. Looking back at the scene setup in Chapter 1-2 .....omg.
It was missing tools and missing experience back than.

But lighting, scene setup and so on are still a thing.
And they take even more time for stills, as you can hide problems in an animation much more easily.

 

[hampsure]

Guys, I'm not giving up

Sorry if i gave that impression.

Didn't get that impression, but I guess after some of the comments there was a sense a frustration that Papa alluded to. I hope you'll keep sharing your insights/concerns/frustrations without worrying too much about how it comes across though. I constantly complain about things out of my control, myself. The stuff I keep to myself is what tends to come back to bite me in the ass. I think most of us would much rather be hearing the issues than not.

Reactions, or the lack of it, are quite frustrating.
But it is like it is, and i've made peace with it

I can very much empathize with this frustration. Unsolicited (or at least unpaid for) ratings/feedback are something that are extremely difficult to get, moreso these days than ever. I say this based on my professional experiences as well as from previous experience in various forms of different modding and content creation communities over many many years. Yes, timing is even worse for newer AVNs at the moment than it was a few years ago, but overall these days are pretty much the worst they've been for getting any sort of engagement going for anything specific (without connections, deals, or existing communities/fanbases). There's just so much content and so many things to do in everyone's daily lives that most have been conditioned to just consume what's in front of them and move onto the next thing without much critical thought let alone any kind of engagement (including rating) that doesn't hold some special benefit to them (perceived or otherwise). Those that do engage at all have a ridiculous amount of completely separate communities or communication methods for just about anything to potentially spend time in. We have so much vying for our attention each second of each day, that we have to be extremely selective on where we do choose to get involved at all. This isn't a new problem but the sheer volume is definitely quite a bit worse than it used to be and people have become desensitized by it. Everything we interact with is designed to get us to interact more and a lot of people are trained at this point to avoid anything beyond just getting what they need and moving on. I see it happening in analytics for work and I'm guilty of it myself. I'm not sure what the answers are, but I'm glad you've been talking about the issues that you see and what not only yourself but others in the space face as a result.

I'm still hoping that getting the game on Steam helps bolster attention for this gem as well (you'll get my wishlist and purchase at least). AVNs are particularly difficult to get the word out on since most of us don't exactly go around mentioning them to others like we would most other media. The most positive I can be is that I do still like to cling on to the mentality that if one provides a good product they'll eventually get some level of appropriate interest in it (the reality is a lot more complicated and lots of factors like "right place right time" hold a lot of power but it should hold true to some degree if on a smaller scale). With that in mind I believe in the end you'll do fine, but I can only hope you also continue to enjoy the process as I'd hate to see you (or others) with talent lose their passion to the inherent frustrations (even if you have made peace to some degree with how things are yourself and have a balance working for you atm).

For what it's worth, you're one of the very few devs I've seen the word "rework" used by and didn't see it as a red flag at all which for me speaks volumes in and of itself from my perspective. So, keep on keepin on. Don't let the bastards grind you down. Etc.

 

[hampsure]

working with an old gtx 970

It was a great product. Mine has been an absolute workhorse usually surprising me with what it can handle well for the last 7+ years I think I've been using it now... as much as I'm excited to be looking at getting a new machine and new gpu (which I've been balking at actually doing repeatedly), I'll hate letting this one go and hoping it lasts long enough to continue using for some things regularly for a decent while yet. Not really looking forward to having to make room either way though.

 

[badtimetales]

Sorry, was a bit busy.

after some of the comments there was a sense a frustration that Papa alluded to. I hope you'll keep sharing your insights/concerns/frustrations without worrying too much about how it comes across though.

I will not name it, but seeing some games with the support they have and comparing it with new games (starting 2021/22) which are much more better...
Yes, it's kind of frustrating.

If I would do this to earn a living, I would have shut it down after 6 months.
I know my "advertisement" problems and they will be addressed.
At least to some point, because I'll never change Isa into something I don't want it to be.

There's just so much content and so many things to do in everyone's daily lives that most have been conditioned to just consume what's in front of them and move onto the next thing without much critical thought let alone any kind of engagement (including rating) that doesn't hold some special benefit to them (perceived or otherwise).

Is that so?

I've had a discussion with some fellow dev about that.
Sure the numbers of new/update releases got crazy the last 2-3 years.
And that's a big problem for visibility.

But in my opinion people just don't care about giving feedback.

I've had a rant about that a few weeks back

You must be registered to see the links

We have so much vying for our attention each second of each day, that we have to be extremely selective on where we do choose to get involved at all. This isn't a new problem but the sheer volume is definitely quite a bit worse than it used to be and people have become desensitized by it.

Well, for me it's what I decide i give my attention to.
And it's too much following political news and daz or blender artists.

When I was a AVN player (haven't played a lot of new games since i started developing) I rated every game I played.
Commented if I really liked it.

For what it's worth, you're one of the very few devs I've seen the word "rework" used by and didn't see it as a red flag at all which for me speaks volumes in and of itself from my perspective. So, keep on keepin on. Don't let the bastards grind you down. Etc.

Thanks.

I'm trying to do my best.

The main goal for me is having fun. And delivering something I would play

 

[hampsure]

At least to some point, because I'll never change Isa into something I don't want it to be.

Never change!

But in my opinion people just don't care about giving feedback.

I don't disagree at all. I'd say it might be even worse in that for most people it's not even a consideration. Either way, it's a problem. The post you linked to along with some other comments you've made are what I'd read and was referring to when I mentioned being glad that you were at least talking about these issues which a lot of us could otherwise continue to lack real insight into.

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to sound as if I was excusing people from personal accountability either. I was just trying to rationalize some of the behavior I see in a broader sense. Maybe it helps me sleep better (okay, at all) at night.