VN Ren'Py Isekai Paradise [v0.5 Patreon] [Soultice]

[HiHaHo]

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I'm deeply disappointed by the inclusion of a forced smoking scene for the main character without any player choice. As someone who absolutely detests smoking, this wasn't just unpleasant; it completely shattered my immersion and connection to the character.

Introducing such a socially negative habit into the game, while stripping the player of any agency to avoid or influence it, is an irresponsible design decision. It shows a disregard for a portion of the audience's beliefs and feels anachronistic given modern attitudes towards smoking.

This specific detail significantly marred my overall experience of a game I otherwise enjoyed. I strongly urge you to reconsider such elements and provide players with genuine choices in the future.

and i will strongly urge the Dev to not cave to your demands,he should make the game he wants to how he wants to.
if that includes a smoking scene its all fine.

speaking off a socially negative habit ,making demands off other people after negative comments about them is one as well.
I strongly urge you to reconsider making such statements again,as its selfish and arrogant to say other people should adjust their behaviour to your personal preference's & world view.

 

[15Sora]

and i will strongly urge the Dev to not cave to your demands,he should make the game he wants to how he wants to.
if that includes a smoking scene its all fine.

speaking off a socially negative habit ,making demands off other people after negative comments about them is one as well.
I strongly urge you to reconsider making such statements again,as its selfish and arrogant to say other people should adjust their behaviour to your personal preference's & world view.

I'm not 'demanding' content removal; I'm suggesting an optional choice. This is a basic function in Ren'Py, requiring minimal resources but significantly enhancing player comfort. Accusing me of selfishness for wanting choice in a game is an attempt to silence valid feedback. A developer's freedom doesn't negate a player's right to respectful treatment and a comfortable experience.

 

[Lynava]

I'm not 'demanding' content removal; I'm suggesting an optional choice. This is a basic function in Ren'Py, requiring minimal resources but significantly enhancing player comfort. Accusing me of selfishness for wanting choice in a game is an attempt to silence valid feedback. A developer's freedom doesn't negate a player's right to respectful treatment and a comfortable experience.

So drinking beer is okay, but smoking cigarettes is not?

 

[HiHaHo]

So drinking beer is okay, but smoking cigarettes is not?

but alcohol is more socially accepted then nicotine, even with alcohol being classified as a hard drug as well.

 

[Lynava]

but alcohol is more socially accepted then nicotine, even with alcohol being classified as a hard drug as well.

Well, I'm just giving you an example of what happens in the game. For example, I don't like alcohol, but I don't ask the developer to make a choice to drink or not.

 

[15Sora]

So drinking beer is okay, but smoking cigarettes is not?

My argument isn't about the specific habit, it's about the lack of choice for players. That's a fundamental difference. A simple 'skip' option for content some find uncomfortable is a basic quality-of-life feature in visual novels, especially in Ren'Py where it takes literally a few lines of code. It's about accessibility and player comfort, not about judging personal preferences outside the game.

 

[Lynava]

My argument isn't about the specific habit, it's about the lack of choice for players. That's a fundamental difference. A simple 'skip' option for content some find uncomfortable is a basic quality-of-life feature in visual novels, especially in Ren'Py where it takes literally a few lines of code. It's about accessibility and player comfort, not about judging personal preferences outside the game.

But if we did, we wouldn't have met the tobacco salesman. And I think there will be interaction with him in the next update.

 

[15Sora]

Well, I'm just giving you an example of what happens in the game. For example, I don't like alcohol, but I don't ask the developer to make a choice to drink or not.

You're missing the core difference. My feedback is about my experience and my right to express it. Just because you tolerate something doesn't mean I have to, or that I shouldn't voice my discomfort.

 

[Lynava]

You're missing the core difference. My feedback is about my experience and my right to express it. Just because you tolerate something doesn't mean I have to, or that I shouldn't voice my discomfort.

The developer doesn't owe you anything.
And like I said, it adds extra work.

 

[15Sora]

The developer doesn't owe you anything.
And like I said, it adds extra work.

Developers don't 'owe' anything, but successful ones value player experience and feedback. Ignoring valid concerns, especially when the solution is trivial, impacts player satisfaction and loyalty.

We're talking about a few lines of code in Ren'Py for a simple choice. To claim that's too much 'extra work' for a scene that actively alienates players seems like a poor prioritization. It's about basic consideration, not complex demands.

 

[Lynava]

Developers don't 'owe' anything, but successful ones value player experience and feedback. Ignoring valid concerns, especially when the solution is trivial, impacts player satisfaction and loyalty.

We're talking about a few lines of code in Ren'Py for a simple choice. To claim that's too much 'extra work' for a scene that actively alienates players seems like a poor prioritization. It's about basic consideration, not complex demands.

lines of code and rendering
possible future impact on the story

 

[Reniere]

Developers don't 'owe' anything, but successful ones value player experience and feedback. Ignoring valid concerns, especially when the solution is trivial, impacts player satisfaction and loyalty.

We're talking about a few lines of code in Ren'Py for a simple choice. To claim that's too much 'extra work' for a scene that actively alienates players seems like a poor prioritization. It's about basic consideration, not complex demands.

Look everyone has said there piece.

Best choice is if you dont like the fact that a option wasnt given to you, you got 2 options

1- unwatch the thread and press ignore
2- deal with it and enjoy the game.

 

[15Sora]

lines of code and rendering
possible future impact on the story

Your insistence on "rendering" and "future impact" is simply incorrect for Ren'Py. No new renders are needed. The game likely has an image of the character just sitting or standing.

Adding a choice to skip the smoking, while keeping the character present for the salesman interaction, is literally a few lines of code. It's a trivial adjustment that causes zero plot holes.

This isn't about complex development; it's about basic player comfort and respect. Arguing otherwise sounds like an excuse for not implementing a simple, beneficial feature.

 

[Lynava]

Your insistence on "rendering" and "future impact" is simply incorrect for Ren'Py. No new renders are needed. The game likely has an image of the character just sitting or standing.

Adding a choice to skip the smoking, while keeping the character present for the salesman interaction, is literally a few lines of code. It's a trivial adjustment that causes zero plot holes.

This isn't about complex development; it's about basic player comfort and respect. Arguing otherwise sounds like an excuse for not implementing a simple, beneficial feature.

 

[Lynava]

By the way for feedback it is better to go to the developer's discord channel.

 

[HiHaHo]

I'm not 'demanding' content removal; I'm suggesting an optional choice. This is a basic function in Ren'Py, requiring minimal resources but significantly enhancing player comfort. Accusing me of selfishness for wanting choice in a game is an attempt to silence valid feedback. A developer's freedom doesn't negate a player's right to respectful treatment and a comfortable experience.

i am not "silencing" valid feedback ,a users freedom to write a a critical feedback doesn't negate a other's user right to critic said feedback and point out obvious flaws in his critic.
i merely did the same as you, strongly urging you to not do it,yet you take it for silencing you ,meaning you take the same context as "demand" which would be selfish, ironic-ly proving my accusation off being selfish to be valid.

Introducing such a socially negative habit into the game, while stripping the player of any agency to avoid or influence it, is an irresponsible design decision. It shows a disregard for a portion of the audience's beliefs and feels anachronistic given modern attitudes towards smoking.

you're asserting a smoking is socially negative habit which it isn't smoking could actually be consider social positive, as you tend to interact more with other smokers (asking for a light or smoke) along with the laws/rules around enforcing smoking areas, forcing smokers in smaller space's almost forcing social interaction.
it is negative health habit, and no smoker will ever deny it genuinely.

also calling it a "irresponsible design decision" because "It shows a disregard for a portion of the audience's beliefs" is just you saying the dev is irresponsible because the smoking doesn't align with your (a portion off the audience) world view is just rude.

that isn't a good way to then request ("strongly urge") he works to adjust his work so you can skip a scene or do even more work and create a entire story branch excluding just smoking.
which if he does do it, other people with believe against lets say previously mentioned alcohol ,or what ever other nuance might occur to do the same
this would result in overly censored VN and break immersion for 95% off the user to satisfy the needs off the 5%
which is why i called you out, because doing what you're asking the Dev to do will lead to worse VN then a better one.

 

[15Sora]

i am not "silencing" valid feedback ,a users freedom to write a a critical feedback doesn't negate a other's user right to critic said feedback and point out obvious flaws in his critic.
i merely did the same as you, strongly urging you to not do it,yet you take it for silencing you ,meaning you take the same context as "demand" which would be selfish, ironic-ly proving my accusation off being selfish to be valid.



you're asserting a smoking is socially negative habit which it isn't smoking could actually be consider social positive, as you tend to interact more with other smokers (asking for a light or smoke) along with the laws/rules around enforcing smoking areas, forcing smokers in smaller space's almost forcing social interaction.
it is negative health habit, and no smoker will ever deny it genuinely.

also calling it a "irresponsible design decision" because "It shows a disregard for a portion of the audience's beliefs" is just you saying the dev is irresponsible because the smoking doesn't align with your (a portion off the audience) world view is just rude.

that isn't a good way to then request ("strongly urge") he works to adjust his work so you can skip a scene or do even more work and create a entire story branch excluding just smoking.
which if he does do it, other people with believe against lets say previously mentioned alcohol ,or what ever other nuance might occur to do the same
this would result in overly censored VN and break immersion for 95% off the user to satisfy the needs off the 5%
which is why i called you out, because doing what you're asking the Dev to do will lead to worse VN then a better one.

1. You claim you're not "silencing" me, but "critiquing my critique," and that me perceiving your "strongly urging you to not do it" as silencing proves I see my feedback as a "demand," thus making me "selfish." That's quite a leap in logic. I suggested an optional choice – a basic feature in Ren'Py using existing assets, as I mentioned – not a "demand." When you "strongly urge" someone to drop their feedback, especially while mischaracterizing it and leveling accusations, it absolutely feels like an attempt to shut down the discussion, not engage with it constructively. Requesting an option is about more player agency, not less.
2. Regarding smoking being a "socially negative habit": My point isn't to debate if smokers interact in smoking areas. It's about the game forcing a habit, which many do perceive as socially negative in a broader sense (or simply undesirable for their character), onto the player without any agency. Calling a design "irresponsible" in this context isn't "rude" because it "doesn't align with my world view"; it's because it disregards player comfort and choice for something easily made optional. And to be clear, I was talking about skipping a single animation, not creating an "entire story branch excluding just smoking" – that’s a significant exaggeration of my very simple QoL suggestion.
3. Your "slippery slope" argument – that providing this one option will lead to an "overly censored VN" and "break immersion for 95% off the user to satisfy the needs off the 5%" – is a classic fallacy. An option is not censorship. Censorship is removal. Those 95% can simply choose to have the character smoke or ignore the setting entirely. It harms no one. For the "5%" (or whatever the number), it enhances their experience by respecting their preference and avoiding a forced action that they might find immersion-breaking.

In short, my feedback was about a minor, technically simple QoL improvement to provide player choice. Your counter-arguments seem to inflate this into a major demand for censorship and massive development work, which it simply isn't.

 

[SatanSama666]

can we get a mod in here this discussion has honestly deviated from the game and whether or not the point is valid or invalid is irrelevant please take your arguments elsewhere

 

[HiHaHo]

1. You claim you're not "silencing" me, but "critiquing my critique," and that me perceiving your "strongly urging you to not do it" as silencing proves I see my feedback as a "demand," thus making me "selfish." That's quite a leap in logic.
   I like how you did not deny i might be right, merely saying "its quite a leap in logic" not saying its incorrect or illogical
   
   I suggested an optional choice – a basic feature in Ren'Py using existing assets,
   the dev still would have to put in time & work to do so, taking time away form creating more/new content, and possible more time then some might think depending a lot more factors such as the dev's coding skills, play testing & bug fixing
   
   as I mentioned – not a "demand." When you "strongly urge" someone to drop their feedback, especially while mischaracterizing it and leveling accusations, it absolutely feels like an attempt to shut down the discussion, not engage with it constructively. Requesting an option is about more player agency, not less.
   When you "strongly urged " the dev to put in time & work to adjust his work it is merely a suggestion,
   but when i "strong urged" you not make "SUCH STATEMENTS" again i am trying to silence you? because i am mischaracterising and actually silencing you and trying to "to shut down the discussion, not engage with it constructively."
   Someone who wanted to "constructively" engage and start a conversation wouldn't emotionally stack it with :
   

   "I'm deeply disappointed "
   "it completely shattered my immersion and connection to the character."
   "Introducing such a socially negative habit into the game" " irresponsible design decision."
   "It shows a disregard for a portion of the audience's beliefs and feels anachronistic given modern attitudes towards smoking."
   "I strongly urge you to reconsider such elements and provide players with genuine choices in the future."

   they would do something mor along the lines off
   "i am disappointed to see the MC smoking because i personally find it a unhealthy habit as such it shattered my immersion,
   i hope we can see this to be changed to a choice and the same being done to future smoke scene.
   what do rest off you guys think?
   still great update can't wait for the next release"
   
   
2. Regarding smoking being a "socially negative habit": My point isn't to debate if smokers interact in smoking areas. It's about the game forcing a habit, which many do perceive as socially negative in a broader sense (or simply undesirable for their character), onto the player without any agency. Calling a design "irresponsible" in this context isn't "rude" because it "doesn't align with my world view"; it's because it disregards player comfort and choice for something easily made optional. And to be clear, I was talking about skipping a single animation, not creating an "entire story branch excluding just smoking" – that’s a significant exaggeration of my very simple QoL suggestion.
   the issue with this is that it isn't just a "single animation" it would require the entire scene to be rewritten and/or changed. and all plot lines that stem from it. there is a whole lot more going then just the smoking, lets say the animation is cut, why does the MC have smoking lighter that he gives to merchant?,why does know cigarettes so well he can recreate them with magic? and more.
   you thinking its "just a single animation" show you have no idea how much truly goes into writing & creating a VN
   
   
3. Your "slippery slope" argument – that providing this one option will lead to an "overly censored VN" and "break immersion for 95% off the user to satisfy the needs off the 5%" – is a classic fallacy. An option is not censorship. Censorship is removal. Those 95% can simply choose to have the character smoke or ignore the setting entirely. It harms no one. For the "5%" (or whatever the number), it enhances their experience by respecting their preference and avoiding a forced action that they might find immersion-breaking.
   well the idea behind that statement was that doing this will result into having to make the same adjustments for drinking and other nuisance in the game along side smoking to, because if he does it for smoking naturally other people who are against certain things such a drinking would want the same, this would lead to a entire "rework" for about 5% people (probably less) off people for whom it fits. delaying new content for the rest.
   Also disappointing people who are already waiting for the next update because off delays due to investing development time making adjustments.
   and them wondering why all the sudden change to the smoking scene (breaking the immersion for them) ,then finding the reason out the reason : " a user on f95 wanted it" leading to others making the same "suggestions" for other things, resulting in 95% off users ( who overlook these things because their immersion doesn't rely on 100% personal accuracy) having to wait longer and bent to the 5% who actually want this.
   so doing your "strongly urged" suggestion will most likely result in a negative experience for people who don't have " no smoking because it break my immersion" stance.

In short, my feedback was about a minor, technically simple QoL improvement to provide player choice. Your counter-arguments seem to inflate this into a major demand for censorship and massive development work, which it simply isn't.

i never demanded for censorship you are just "mischaracterising" my "such statements" and other arguments to make them seem trifle,incorrect and/or hostile ,most likely in attempt to save face.
nothing wrong with admitting you're being selfish.

which leads me to the "a minor, technically simple QoL improvement to provide player choice" & me trying to inflate this into a major thing like massive delevopment work :

currently the MC sees a tobacco stand and goes there to get tobacco leading to a conversation with the merchant ,a smoke and him giving the lighter, all this happens because he is smoker and wants a smoke.
Following that there is the plot development of Kaela also smoking which lead to more possible interaction between them and possible content from that.
Later on said tobacco merchant counters the MC outside taking a stroll whilst smoking , tricking him into a alley to be abducted by Tyra leading to the Vega scene.

making the mc being a smoker optional will result in more working writing & render wise ,which is the reason such thing are not optional.

^^^^^^

 

[HiHaHo]

can we get a mod in here this discussion has honestly deviated from the game and whether or not the point is valid or invalid is irrelevant please take your arguments elsewhere

yeah sorry about all this i usually do ignore such statements but as i also enjoy pointing out others hypocrisy's and emotional manipulation using their own words & tactics against them .just can't help myself sometimes.
i'm sure a mod will clean it up eventually.