Italian website selling porn games and claiming to own the copyright for them

[Antiochus]

The problem with the AGCOM procedure is that it requires a PEC, a type of certified electronic mail, which is a paid service and requires to be residing in Italy to have one (if I'm not mistaken). Otherwise I'd already would have helped Runey to file a complaint via the online module.
Unfortunately, if you take a look at it you can see that the PEC address field is mandatory. And the online form is the only way to act, as far as I know.

Didn't know that. I didn't dig into the site that much. Could you not find an Italian Law student or someone else willing to do some pro-bono as a proxy. Maybe work out a beer money deal?

Round up an Italian resident who would be willing to proxy. Get all of the aggrieved parties to send required details and a few paypal bux and start submitting complaints. Once AGCOM starts rolling I am pretty sure the thief will fold up tents and run. The penalties are pretty stiff. I am sure that somewhere in the F95 community there would be someone willing to help out.

 

[random.person]

Didn't know that. I didn't dig into the site that much. Could you not find an Italian Law student or someone else willing to do some pro-bono as a proxy. Maybe work out a beer money deal?

Round up an Italian resident who would be willing to proxy. Get all of the aggrieved parties to send required details and a few paypal bux and start submitting complaints. Once AGCOM starts rolling I am pretty sure the thief will fold up tents and run. The penalties are pretty stiff. I am sure that somewhere in the F95 community there would be someone willing to help out.

I actually am an Italian law student. I still wouldn't be able to help, to be a lawyer you need to be graduated and pass a public exam. I could file the form for the AGCOM, but I don't have a PEC address. Pretty much no one has one, only companies usually get it for legal communications.
If I were already enabled to exercise the legal profession I would help, but I have neither the formal qualification nor the experience to be of any use in this circumstance.

 

[c3p0]

I actually am an Italian law student. I still wouldn't be able to help, to be a lawyer you need to be graduated and pass a public exam. I could file the form for the AGCOM, but I don't have a PEC address. Pretty much no one has one, only companies usually get it for legal communications.
If I were already enabled to exercise the legal profession I would help, but I have neither the formal qualification nor the experience to be of any use in this circumstance.

So, completely theoretical, as @Runey or the other must decide this.
I assume you could help him to find a suitable laywer that are willing to represent him and all the other devs that want this?
I'm sure this would help a lot for them.

 

[N1K17Y]

We don't need to fight fire with fire. DDOS attacks are not advised. We're in the right here, so doing anything illegal would ruin this whole situation.

its only illegal if you get caught

 

[c3p0]

its only illegal if you get caught

No it is illegal. It doesn't change if you're caught or not. It only change if you will be charged or not.

And what does a DDOS? It is "only" denial of service. So can we do it? Yes. Do we want it? I don't know. Does it change anything? Most likely not.
To "end" this, the DDOS must run long time, so the probability that this attacked will be investigate would also be high. And if an investigation would take place, we would be the bad ones.

If we want to take this site done, we have two options: the long, painful way and go through the normal way and take them to the court or we would hack them and will most likely be taken to the court.

And, AFAIK, cybercrime overules copyright violation...

 

[Antiochus]

I actually am an Italian law student. I still wouldn't be able to help, to be a lawyer you need to be graduated and pass a public exam. I could file the form for the AGCOM, but I don't have a PEC address. Pretty much no one has one, only companies usually get it for legal communications.
If I were already enabled to exercise the legal profession I would help, but I have neither the formal qualification nor the experience to be of any use in this circumstance.

Get a list of IP firms in Italy, send a form type letter explaining situation (explicit details not required at this point) and financial constraints. Ask for Probono treatment if possible.

Worth a try.

Some firms to start with?

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You could act as translator/proxy to protect yourself. Explain you have been engaged by ... to help...

Worth a shot.

 

[echilog]

No it is illegal. It doesn't change if you're caught or not. It only change if you will be charged or not.

And what does a DDOS? It is "only" denial of service. So can we do it? Yes. Do we want it? I don't know. Does it change anything? Most likely not.
To "end" this, the DDOS must run long time, so the probability that this attacked will be investigate would also be high. And if an investigation would take place, we would be the bad ones.

If we want to take this site done, we have two options: the long, painful way and go through the normal way and take them to the court or we would hake them and will most likely be taken to the court.

And, AFAIK, cybercrime overules copyright violation...

It is indeed still illegal, but point still stands. If no one does anything. This site pretty much just stays as it is.

And this stuff is a fing hazzle, it takes so much time if you are familiar with this, and even more then you are not.

And btw the many WE you use. Is just wishful thinking, there is no WE.

 

[c3p0]

It is indeed still illegal, but point still stands. If no one does anything. This site pretty much just stays as it is.

And this stuff is a fing hazzle, it takes so much time if you are familiar with this, and even more then you are not.

And btw the many WE you use. Is just wishful thinking, there is no WE.

And even with a DDOS, the site would surely not be down for long. It would also cost money for the bot net needed for this or do anyone have ......
So even if you or I or someone else take them down for 24h, they will come back.

And you're right. To do the things by the law, even if you're right, it's a long and stony road. But as other said before, two wrongs don't make a right.

Seriously, sure a lot of "we" that I have use, but then again, it only needs two to from a "we" instead of a "I" or "you"

Distributed-Denial-of-Service, so most likely is a we behind it. I don't have a bot net for my own disposal. So either one must be rented (or otherwise obtained) or a of bunch of internet perv would do it the dumb way....

 

[random.person]

So, completely theoretical, as @Runey or the other must decide this.
I assume you could help him to find a suitable laywer that are willing to represent him and all the other devs that want this?
I'm sure this would help a lot for them.

I can theoretically find a good lawyer by asking some professors in my university (fun fact: our current Prime Minister was a professor at my university). But they don't come cheap at all.
Taking them to court over the civil aspect (violation of IP) could take a very long time and the site is an SRL, i.e. a Ltd. company, so the amount of money you could get back from them even in the case you won is limited by the company's funds.
The only good routes would be the criminal trial one, since then a person and not an Ltd. company would stand trial and eventually pay, and the AGCOM route. A lawyer would surely (I think) have a PEC and could follow through the AGCOM process, which was indeed introduced to avoid the other options since they are too slow and ineffective.

Get a list of IP firms in Italy, send a form type letter explaining situation (explicit details not required at this point) and financial constraints. Ask for Probono treatment if possible.

Worth a try.

Some firms to start with?

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

You could act as translator/proxy to protect yourself. Explain you have been engaged by ... to help...

Worth a shot.

I have no experience in this particular field, since my goal is to specialize in criminal law, but in general the lawyer landscape in Italy doesn't work like in the USA. I know of no one that does pro bono and here lawyers don't bet on trials with the prospect of getting a share of what the losing party will have to pay - as far as I know, a clause like that isn't possible here.
Law firms around here, as far as I know, tend to work for big companies and are very expensive.
Of course if someone wants to try that I could help by translating, but hiring this kind of legal aid will most likely be too expensive.

 

[Antiochus]

I can theoretically find a good lawyer by asking some professors in my university (fun fact: our current Prime Minister was a professor at my university). But they don't come cheap at all.
Taking them to court over the civil aspect (violation of IP) could take a very long time and the site is an SRL, i.e. a Ltd. company, so the amount of money you could get back from them even in the case you won is limited by the company's funds.
The only good routes would be the criminal trial one, since then a person and not an Ltd. company would stand trial and eventually pay, and the AGCOM route. A lawyer would surely (I think) have a PEC and could follow through the AGCOM process, which was indeed introduced to avoid the other options since they are too slow and ineffective.


I have no experience in this particular field, since my goal is to specialize in criminal law, but in general the lawyer landscape in Italy doesn't work like in the USA. I know of no one that does pro bono and here lawyers don't bet on trials with the prospect of getting a share of what the losing party will have to pay - as far as I know, a clause like that isn't possible here.
Law firms around here, as far as I know, tend to work for big companies and are very expensive.
Of course if someone wants to try that I could help by translating, but hiring this kind of legal aid will most likely be too expensive.

Thought it might be worth a try. Pro bono is work for someone who cannot afford to pay. Many firms on this side of the Atlantic engage in it as a means of 'giving back' to society. The spec work you reference is also rampant. Legal work over here is astoundingly expensive as well. There are public organizations who take on cases of this type as part of their portfolio of societal good works... think of FSF and the like.

Anyway good luck.

 

[recreation]

ATM there is only one thing you can do without going the official way or doing illegal stuff. Get all developers who's games are on his site to contact him and demand to take their games down. If he has some brain, he will take them down. I think he is clever enough to know that he can get in serious trouble if he doesn't and I believe he might also not want to have several well known developers against him.

 

[Finsit]

ATM there is only one thing you can do without going the official way or doing illegal stuff. Get all developers who's games are on his site to contact him and demand to take their games down. If he has some brain, he will take them down. I think he is clever enough to know that he can get in serious trouble if he doesn't and I believe he might also not want to have several well known developers against him.

Well giving offerings to an underworld god to invoke some earthquakes wouldn't be considered illegal would it ?

Question is do they live in a seismic area.

 

[icesun]

Well giving offerings to an underworld god to invoke some earthquakes wouldn't be considered illegal would it ?

Question is do they live in a seismic area.

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:


Does that count?

 

[Finsit]

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:
View attachment 244697

Does that count?

Oh, we might have understood what happened to Pompeii.

 

[Runey]

ATM there is only one thing you can do without going the official way or doing illegal stuff. Get all developers who's games are on his site to contact him and demand to take their games down. If he has some brain, he will take them down. I think he is clever enough to know that he can get in serious trouble if he doesn't and I believe he might also not want to have several well known developers against him.

People have been contacting Giochi, and Giochi asks for legal proof they own the game. Saying "A Patreon post has no legal value". And even telling these people that "your game violates Patreon's terms of service".

 

[Winterfire]

People have been contacting Giochi, and Giochi asks for legal proof they own the game. Saying "A Patreon post has no legal value". And even telling these people that "your game violates Patreon's terms of service".

You could help them, since you got yours removed, you could contact them privately and give them a template of the message.

As for legal proof... Does not Ren'Py have credits? In which you poke in your developer's name?
At that point it would be more like he has to prove he's the developer in question rather than the guy contacting him... That would be pretty funny. "You are not Runey, I AM Runey!"

 

[Cybuster]

Just a bit of international law for those that need it...

First of all let's talk about the rights of a translation related to a main object which would be the one under intellectual protection.

A translation can only be considered a derivative product in the case that the creator of the original product approves of it, if it doesn't get approved it means that the translation has no rights and even worse, if the original creator thinks that it damages his profits he has all rights to make a demand based on it and take it down.

Now, that's the general rule, in games there aren't any cases related to translations of it because the derivative product needs the original one to be used so it shouldn't damage in theory the profits of the original creator. If we used analogy (and I mean the legal one), in theory you could attack it as a normal translation of things like news, books... but personally I think it doesn't have enough similarities to be applied mainly because of the need of the original product.

I would say that if there isn't a very strict law, a game translation would fall under the "fair use" clause, even so when the original creator asks for the takedown of a translation no translator would risk going against it, but I would say that if a game is sold internationally there would be no risk for doing a fan translation at all.

But all that I said is based around the translator obtaining no profit over the translation, as a derivative product in ALL CASES, it requires the consent of the original creator for it to obtain any profit at all. Even if it was a translation patch, if they sell it they have no rights at all over their content.

This holds true to nearly every monetization schemes, make your shit free, there is nearly no reason or ground an original author sue you, reselling shit, now that's different.

 

[Winterfire]

I do not know much about law but I think, internationally, a creator owns the thing he made, be it a video or a game.
This ownership can be proved by placing a copyright notice somewhere, which does not have to be registered or paid, something like: © Winterfire, for instance.

The only thing I am truly unsure about is, do copyright notices require your real name or an username is also possible? As far as real names go, you own them and can be easily identified with them but usernames are a little different and I am not sure if they can be an alternative.

 

[gamersglory]

Ren'Py does have the About section that you can edit but the problem with Ren'py is it open-source design allows the majority of the game files to be editable by anyone

 

[gamersglory]

I do not know much about law but I think, internationally, a creator owns the thing he made, be it a video or a game.
This ownership can be proved by placing a copyright notice somewhere, which does not have to be registered or paid, something like: © Winterfire, for instance.

The only thing I am truly unsure about is, do copyright notices require your real name or an username is also possible? As far as real names go, you own them and can be easily identified with them but usernames are a little different and I am not sure if they can be an alternative.

Under US law using your username would be fine if that was also your company name so if you did say © Winterfire Games 2019 Then maybe but then you would have to prove you own that company.