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All of the futa/trans scenes, and almost all of the other sex scenes, will be optional. Within the futa/trans scenes there will sometimes be the option to catch instead of (or in addition to) pitch. I'm going to do my best to make sure that everything is clearly labeled but if at any time anyone feels like they went down a road they weren't ready for (even if you end up liking it
) please let me know and I'll take another look at how I handled it.
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Just finished a playthrough, top shelf stuff man. Really awesomeNo worries, I can be a bit of a dick with all the twists and misdirection.
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I think it applies to a design choice the only purpose of which is to aggravate the player. But yeah, we're probably not going to agree on that.
Anyway, finally found time to play through the update, a few notes below.
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Thank you, seriously. I do what I can.Just finished a playthrough, top shelf stuff man. Really awesome
I suppose it's a measure of degree. I don't want to draw too many comparisons to legitimate artistic masterpieces but if you consider things like Crime and Punishment or Come and See maybe you'll understand what I mean when I say that not every part of the things we consume for entertainment purposes should feel good. Or, to quote the great American poet Michael Trent Reznor -
Good catches with the typos/bad variable call. Turns out some of you technically should've gotten the massage scene (even if you didn't truly deserve it) but missed out.
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By the way, I was puzzled by some commenters saying that this was the update that turned them around on Ness since she hardly appeared at all in my playthrough. But checking the script I see that the scene in question depended on sharing with her in the last update, so those who play the MC as not into sharing probably won't see that side of her. (Which is fair, if that's her thing.)
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Probably worth reposting this -
I promise it won't all be misery-porn/bad vibes but I'm not promising that there won't be any bad vibes.
Yeah, I found it too. It was only for the 0.2.1 labels. I changed them to wav as well as adding some more adjustments to make the changed narrative more smooth
DigiDec is the .wav files for the compressed only or did you change the files in the base game (cause my 0.2.1 was compressed version too & it had .mp3 in the script)
This conversation reminds me a little bit of some of the conversations I had after the initial release, where some players were extremely focused on the very initial part of the game where the player was inside his cyberpunk sim. In the sense that as the game gets a little bit bigger and this specific thing becomes a much smaller part of the overall experience, perspectives might shift a little bit. Obviously, I don't want the choice between a handful of short scenes to be so upsetting that players drop the game before they reach the point where they realize how mostly inconsequential that portion was. Maybe I am underestimating the average player's willingness to afford the game an opportunity to stretch it's legs a little. Writing a compelling story while also grabbing and capturing a player's attention is a tough needle to thread. I mentioned a couple of times before in different conversations that my natural style is closer to a slow burn than the pace I've written at in this game, I know that as a first-time dev I have an uphill battle so I've kept things pretty rapid fire since the audience has no reason to trust that I'm actually going to deliver a payoff.
So, the initial comment that I teased you over, that being forced to choose between sims was a "bad" design choice, we are both looking at it from different perspectives. To me, whether the design was good or bad, depends on whether or not it achieved its intent. It was not intended to make the player feel good. It was not intended to make the player feel in control of things. Now, I don't want it to have been so upsetting that it throws players off the game and I want the overall experience of this game to be enjoyable. But writing a compelling story is tricky, especially since I'm not a very good writer
You think it was a bad way to communicate certain things to the player. It's hard for me to judge that since I'm looking at things from the other side. I'm just not sure how else I could communicate those things without explicitly telling them, while still capturing the atmosphere/tone I'm shooting for.
So in the comment I was replying to you said:
So basically the point I was trying to convey was: By making it not red, you made it blue. There's more than one trope & by trying to avoid one, you inadvertently fed into another. Just like you were aware of how things generally work, so are the average gamers.
Generally devs & their games have a type & a dev who makes you choose 1 girl only is likely to do that throughout the game while a 'get all the girls' dev will likely make a game where you get to see every scene.
So this game feels like the former in it's initial choices.
This depends on the preference to be honest. A lot of players can accept good route based games (myself included) & some (many? who knows the statistics ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯) prefer them over get/see all girls scenes. But a hardcore enthusiast wouldn't play a game outside of their preferences.
*Overestimating/Unwillingness
I mean if 99 out of 100 black(or white or asian) people shoot you on sight, would it be racist to run?
Games where you have to choose between girls but still get them all is very rare & even there you can, more often than not, get all the scenes, just later on (like my initial conversation with you during 0.1.1, I assumed we'd get the other mom/sis sim in v0.2).
So yeah, after 3 consecutive such choices, players might get a little uneasy (given it's not to their preference ofc)
Actually I'd consider you a pretty good writer. The storytelling is by far the best thing in this game, and I don't just mean the story, but the storytelling.But writing a compelling story is tricky, especially since I'm not a very good writer
If this was presented as a movie or a kinetic novel, it could be considered almost perfect (even though I wouldn't have played it since I ignore KNs)
Even the screenplay elements.
For example, Reveal of the receptionist (Julia) as belonging to Izzy was such a subtle & well done reveal.
The way the sara putting a camera in MC's room was communicated was also pretty great, from seeing her come out of the room to Nat giving her the camera, it was perfect.
If everything was done with one hand tied behind your back, I look forward to a slow burn game from you where you are in your element
It's just in the choices that it feels a little lacking. I adjusted the bb_6 menu in my mod to have a better visual performance. I could've done a bit more, utilising a back option so all choices didn't jump back to bb_6, but was too lazy
You feel like a 1st time dev but not a 1st time writer.
Even with the sims, I feel people who didn't see all 3 of the last sims would miss a lot of context in that very well done breakfast conversation with the girls, which felt like such a waste given how great it was.
Now, the mc being unaware/dense actually helps that scene, but the players being unaware negatively affects the scene.
Well, my mod's narrative isn't the answer, that's for sure. Or the mc would appear too dense if he still had no clue what everyone was fantasising about after watching all the sims the night before.
I think the best way to go about it is to separate the player from the mc.
Like there's those scenes where you see scenes where the mc isn't present. I think those scenes do well at establishing how much the mc doesn't know.
Izzi immediately knowing about Qai conveyed that feeling pretty well.
Izzi wiping MC's memory was another strong scene.
Makes you feel this bigger world with other players making their own moves & the mc is just seeing a little bit of the whole story & isn't necessary the most powerful player starting off (the memory wipe scene was real great for this, awesome Inception deja vu)
The reason I mentioned the sims in the 1st place is that it doesn't convey this feeling, getting overshadowed as a game decision about the girls.
Remember that this is a porn game 1st & foremost. Gameplay elements relating to the girls & their scenes/content will always have a different significance than the average story decision.
Whether you tell ness about xiang would be a whole different choice from whether you'd bang ness or xiang.
I think the best possible way to achieve what you were going for was:
to show the girls sims independently & then show a shortened version of the mc logging into one of those sims & how it'd change.
Like use the 'meanwhile' screen card to show all the sims & then mc gets to see a portion of one of the sims.
The sims themselves are just portions of a much larger gameplay anyway. By doing this, you'd establish that the mc only knows a part of the sims - much better than the current gameplay.
Why?
Cause, like I mentioned before, you don't know what you don't know.
By keeping the players in the dark about the other sims, they can't really judge what your intent is, & the porn game gameplay aspect of choosing between the girls is their takeaway from it.
However if they know the overall situation in the sims, they'll know that the mc is ignorant of a significant chunk of information.
Example: Say your boss fires you.
If you don't know anything, you just assume its about your performance, it's the obvious answer ("choose 1 girl only" game)
Only if you know something more will you perceive it as something different, something out of the ordinary/obvious.
Mc's situation has to be shown & can only be done by letting the player know. If you actually limit the info they get, they'll never think beyond their surface perception.
Another example: You showed Izzy in the beginning, as Qai was uploaded. It was very well done.
Now imagine you didn't show anything because you wanted the player to not have all the information & understand that the mc didn't have all the information.
Well they wouldn't know anything, including the fact that the mc was ignorant of many things taking place in the broader world without his knowledge.
'What you don't know, you don't know you don't know'
This is what I meant when I said your intentions only work if the players have knowledge of all the sims, from other play-throughs or using rollback or save-loading the game.
Unless they have the complete picture, they cannot understand the significance of the unseen sims & what it represents in terms of them happening without the MC's knowledge or participation.
I don't think that's properly communicated to the players, especially if they do not know the sims they don't choose.
Tl;Dr:
So basically your intention to "I wanted to establish that the changes happening with the girls weren't tied to the MC's presence in the sim, since that's how the whole thing would work in a lot of games like this." doesn't work at all since the players only see the sims tied to the MC's presence & have no obvious connection to the unseen sims & their impact on the girls.
I think the different sides you mentioned come into play here as you know the story while I'm looking at how it's communicated to someone who doesn't.
It doesn't help that a huge chunk of the girls fetish/sexual/personality development takes place in the sims, & by restricting access to them, you basically make their characters less developed.
Doesn't help that the game's kind of rushed, especially if you cut out 5/6 sims worth of content showcasing the girls' minds
I did a run with the 1 sim only setting & it was so much worse, felt like a broken story for the girls, atleast if I didn't watch all their sims (so 2 out of 3).
Basically, this decision feels like it lowers the story/characters quality of the game, which as I mentioned was the best aspect of the game.
Maybe it would've worked better if the sims were different & there was out of sims adjustment to the story for characters who's sims weren't seen, but looking at the current full picture, it's definitely a lowering of the story quality without achieving what you want to achieve.
Hope that helped communicate why I thought it was bad design.
Most people will just use the cheat mod or my mod, so I guess it doesn't matter as much, but neither manage to communicate what you wanted to communicate, so there's that sadly...
Anyway, moving on:
I think in general, it's best to give options for every sex interaction when possible, including receiving & giving roles.
For example, I avoided nat's 1st scene & stella sex because I have a very niche preference of not liking the mc giving oral.
You especially want to do it with futa/trans & Dom/sub interactions.
Some people will want to avoid futa/trans all together.
Some will choose it, but not want futa/trans dick to be active at all. (I'm in this group, with a personal preference for hands free content, where the mc makes them cum without touching or otherwise simulating their dick at all
)Some will be fine as long as futa/trans dick isn't used on the mc. (Personally acceptable too, just not as great as hands free content)
Some will want the mc to take that futa dick & take it hard
Similarly for Dom/sub, some people might not want to see the mc dominated in a sexual setting (I play Dom mc games only).
Talking about kinks, I think denial content would be great with the implant & the sims. Just a suggestion if you're looking for ideas.
Also with that alternate lifestyle being seen with izzy zoe julia sara kelli, wonder when(if?) we'd get an option for the mc to embrace it & become a true Master.
Also, after revealing Nat has sisters, you'd be a true sinner if they don't make an appearance in the bull's harem of breeding bitches (nat is my fav kink so far. Hope we get option for MC to embrace it soon)
(You should've put breeding bitch instead of bitch for the choice, especially if it's exclusive to nat scenes)
Finally, when you said
did you also include situations like with Kate's message sex scene?
You only get that scene if you didn't do stuff with Ness and Zoe.
While I understand the story factors (being pent up), as a porn game which doesn't aim to be route restricted, missing out on a scene because you did what you're expected to do in porn games is pretty annoying.
It was a great scene & it's sad that most people will miss it cause most will have said yes to either Zoe or Ness, if not both.
I feel you should only miss such scenes if you said no or don't have enough points or something. Saying yes to one girl in a porn game shouldn't automatically mean no to another girls scene
Anyway, that's all for this version.
The ending was wild but also very very confusing. That kinda impacted my looking forward to the next update cause I have no idea exactly what's going on & what to look forward to
Good luck, hope development for next update goes smoothly
Last edited:
- Apr 2, 2024
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This is great feedback, thank you.Yeah, I found it too. It was only for the 0.2.1 labels. I changed them to wav as well as adding some more adjustments to make the changed narrative more smooth
DigiDec is the .wav files for the compressed only or did you change the files in the base game (cause my 0.2.1 was compressed version too & it had .mp3 in the script)
So in the comment I was replying to you said:
So basically the point I was trying to convey was: By making it not red, you made it blue. There's more than one trope & by trying to avoid one, you inadvertently fed into another. Just like you were aware of how things generally work, so are the average gamers.
Generally devs & their games have a type & a dev who makes you choose 1 girl only is likely to do that throughout the game while a 'get all the girls' dev will likely make a game where you get to see every scene.
So this game feels like the former in it's initial choices.
This depends on the preference to be honest. A lot of players can accept good route based games (myself included) & some (many? who knows the statistics ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯) prefer them over get/see all girls scenes. But a hardcore enthusiast wouldn't play a game outside of their preferences.
*Overestimating/Unwillingness
I mean if 99 out of 100 black(or white or asian) people shoot you on sight, would it be racist to run?
Games where you have to choose between girls but still get them all is very rare & even there you can, more often than not, get all the scenes, just later on (like my initial conversation with you during 0.1.1, I assumed we'd get the other mom/sis sim in v0.2).
So yeah, after 3 consecutive such choices, players might get a little uneasy (given it's not to their preference ofc)
Actually I'd consider you a pretty good writer. The storytelling is by far the best thing in this game, and I don't just mean the story, but the storytelling.
If this was presented as a movie or a kinetic novel, it could be considered almost perfect (even though I wouldn't have played it since I ignore KNs)
Even the screenplay elements.
For example, Reveal of the receptionist (Julia) as belonging to Izzy was such a subtle & well done reveal.
The way the sara putting a camera in MC's room was communicated was also pretty great, from seeing her come out of the room to Nat giving her the camera, it was perfect.
If everything was done with one hand tied behind your back, I look forward to a slow burn game from you where you are in your element
It's just in the choices that it feels a little lacking. I adjusted the bb_6 menu in my mod to have a better visual performance. I could've done a bit more, utilising a back option so all choices didn't jump back to bb_6, but was too lazy
You feel like a 1st time dev but not a 1st time writer.
Even with the sims, I feel people who didn't see all 3 of the last sims would miss a lot of context in that very well done breakfast conversation with the girls, which felt like such a waste given how great it was.
Now, the mc being unaware/dense actually helps that scene, but the players being unaware negatively affects the scene.
Well, my mod's narrative isn't the answer, that's for sure. Or the mc would appear too dense if he still had no clue what everyone was fantasising about after watching all the sims the night before.
I think the best way to go about it is to separate the player from the mc.
Like there's those scenes where you see scenes where the mc isn't present. I think those scenes do well at establishing how much the mc doesn't know.
Izzi immediately knowing about Qai conveyed that feeling pretty well.
Izzi wiping MC's memory was another strong scene.
Makes you feel this bigger world with other players making their own moves & the mc is just seeing a little bit of the whole story & isn't necessary the most powerful player starting off (the memory wipe scene was real great for this, awesome Inception deja vu)
The reason I mentioned the sims in the 1st place is that it doesn't convey this feeling, getting overshadowed as a game decision about the girls.
Remember that this is a porn game 1st & foremost. Gameplay elements relating to the girls & their scenes/content will always have a different significance than the average story decision.
Whether you tell ness about xiang would be a whole different choice from whether you'd bang ness or xiang.
I think the best possible way to achieve what you were going for was:
to show the girls sims independently & then show a shortened version of the mc logging into one of those sims & how it'd change.
Like use the 'meanwhile' screen card to show all the sims & then mc gets to see a portion of one of the sims.
The sims themselves are just portions of a much larger gameplay anyway. By doing this, you'd establish that the mc only knows a part of the sims - much better than the current gameplay.
Why?
Cause, like I mentioned before, you don't know what you don't know.
By keeping the players in the dark about the other sims, they can't really judge what your intent is, & the porn game gameplay aspect of choosing between the girls is their takeaway from it.
However if they know the overall situation in the sims, they'll know that the mc is ignorant of a significant chunk of information.
Example: Say your boss fires you.
If you don't know anything, you just assume its about your performance, it's the obvious answer ("choose 1 girl only" game)
Only if you know something more will you perceive it as something different, something out of the ordinary/obvious.
Mc's situation has to be shown & can only be done by letting the player know. If you actually limit the info they get, they'll never think beyond their surface perception.
Another example: You showed Izzy in the beginning, as Qai was uploaded. It was very well done.
Now imagine you didn't show anything because you wanted the player to not have all the information & understand that the mc didn't have all the information.
Well they wouldn't know anything, including the fact that the mc was ignorant of many things taking place in the broader world without his knowledge.
'What you don't know, you don't know you don't know'
This is what I meant when I said your intentions only work if the players have knowledge of all the sims, from other play-throughs or using rollback or save-loading the game.
Unless they have the complete picture, they cannot understand the significance of the unseen sims & what it represents in terms of them happening without the MC's knowledge or participation.
I don't think that's properly communicated to the players, especially if they do not know the sims they don't choose.
Tl;Dr:
So basically your intention to "I wanted to establish that the changes happening with the girls weren't tied to the MC's presence in the sim, since that's how the whole thing would work in a lot of games like this." doesn't work at all since the players only see the sims tied to the MC's presence & have no obvious connection to the unseen sims & their impact on the girls.
I think the different sides you mentioned come into play here as you know the story while I'm looking at how it's communicated to someone who doesn't.
It doesn't help that a huge chunk of the girls fetish/sexual/personality development takes place in the sims, & by restricting access to them, you basically make their characters less developed.
Doesn't help that the game's kind of rushed, especially if you cut out 5/6 sims worth of content showcasing the girls' minds
I did a run with the 1 sim only setting & it was so much worse, felt like a broken story for the girls, atleast if I didn't watch all their sims (so 2 out of 3).
Basically, this decision feels like it lowers the story/characters quality of the game, which as I mentioned was the best aspect of the game.
Maybe it would've worked better if the sims were different & there was out of sims adjustment to the story for characters who's sims weren't seen, but looking at the current full picture, it's definitely a lowering of the story quality without achieving what you want to achieve.
Hope that helped communicate why I thought it was bad design.
Most people will just use the cheat mod or my mod, so I guess it doesn't matter as much, but neither manage to communicate what you wanted to communicate, so there's that sadly...
Anyway, moving on:
I think in general, it's best to give options for every sex interaction when possible, including receiving & giving roles.
For example, I avoided nat's 1st scene & stella sex because I have a very niche preference of not liking the mc giving oral.
You especially want to do it with futa/trans & Dom/sub interactions.
Some people will want to avoid futa/trans all together.
Some will choose it, but not want futa/trans dick to be active at all. (I'm in this group, with a personal preference for hands free content, where the mc makes them cum without touching or otherwise simulating their dick at all
Some will be fine as long as futa/trans dick isn't used on the mc. (Personally acceptable too, just not as great as hands free content)
Some will want the mc to take that futa dick & take it hard
Similarly for Dom/sub, some people might not want to see the mc dominated in a sexual setting (I play Dom mc games only).
Talking about kinks, I think denial content would be great with the implant & the sims. Just a suggestion if you're looking for ideas.
Also with that alternate lifestyle being seen with izzy zoe julia sara kelli, wonder when(if?) we'd get an option for the mc to embrace it & become a true Master.
Also, after revealing Nat has sisters, you'd be a true sinner if they don't make an appearance in the bull's harem of breeding bitches (nat is my fav kink so far. Hope we get option for MC to embrace it soon)
(You should've put breeding bitch instead of bitch for the choice, especially if it's exclusive to nat scenes)
Finally, when you said
did you also include situations like with Kate's message sex scene?
You only get that scene if you didn't do stuff with Ness and Zoe.
While I understand the story factors (being pent up), as a porn game which doesn't aim to be route restricted, missing out on a scene because you did what you're expected to do in porn games is pretty annoying.
It was a great scene & it's sad that most people will miss it cause most will have said yes to either Zoe or Ness, if not both.
I feel you should only miss such scenes if you said no or don't have enough points or something. Saying yes to one girl in a porn game shouldn't automatically mean no to another girls scene
Anyway, that's all for this version.
The ending was wild but also very very confusing. That kinda impacted my looking forward to the next update cause I have no idea exactly what's going on & what to look forward to
Good luck, hope development for next update goes smoothly
All the songs are .wav now but I'll probably compress them to a smaller format for the next update. I'll try to remember to drop a comment in the change log next time if I do.
I mentioned in another comment how I've been thinking about how I would handle things differently, and the first thing that comes to mind was just not having there be an option between sims. The other alternative would've been including all of them but making the scenes much shorter and spreading them out throughout the game. Obviously, we're not doing that so don't worry. You said that it feels rushed with just one sim scene but I was going for a somewhat hectic pace. I needed there to be a decent passage of in-game time from the start of the game to the end of the last update but I wanted it to feel like things were happening fast with the MC not really able to keep up. I'll just take the L here.
I can't promise that I'll include options for each individual sex act within a given encounter, but I'll keep it in mind moving forward. Something a little more "niche" like touching a penis is going to get a separate option, sort of like how I handled the scene with Sin-D at the beginning.
I gave the option for a term other than bitch because I know some players have favorite terms, but I 100% agree that bitch works best. It will end up including the "breeding" qualifier quite often and "breeding slut" works but not nearly as well. I might go back and add a little (recommended) note next to it.
I don't know for sure if Nat's sister will make an appearance but an angle I was thinking of (which could apply to any of Nat, Mol, or Sara) is someone who knows the particular girl being unsettled by the changes in their lifestyle and showing up to investigate. Then, you'll just have to teach them to stop worrying and love the kink.
That massage scene was an exception to how I plan on handling things. There were some players who had been staying loyal to Nat, with no promise of additional content, and I figured they deserved a little something as a reward. Obviously, a lot of you who did not deserve it got it anyway but that's between you and god.
A lot of the confusion will probably get cleared up during the next update or two but there will be a decent amount of ambiguity regarding certain things for the rest of the game. It would be pretty hard/boring to play the role of someone struggling with their grip on reality if it is 100% clear what is real and what isn't.
Development is going great... just great... no problems at all...
I'm (mostly) kidding. The scene I've been working on (Claudette's) is a massive pain in the ass to get through. Basically, every design choice I made for this scene was the option that makes Daz go slow. Busy, cluttered environment, assets that need to be simulated constantly, complex lighting. But the renders look great so I'm not going to change anything.
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The consolation prize is that every time I get too frustrated with it to continue, I put in a little work on stuff that I need done for later scenes.
But, it's time I get back at it so everyone please lend me your strength.
One idea for players not picking other Sims and have an idea what is happening to the LIs is to have short flashback. Just have the LIs have short fantasy of scenes of the Sims or quick flashback of what happened. It will give a rough idea to the players. But if you ask me, it will add some replayability if you dont do it.This is great feedback, thank you.
All the songs are .wav now but I'll probably compress them to a smaller format for the next update. I'll try to remember to drop a comment in the change log next time if I do.
I mentioned in another comment how I've been thinking about how I would handle things differently, and the first thing that comes to mind was just not having there be an option between sims. The other alternative would've been including all of them but making the scenes much shorter and spreading them out throughout the game. Obviously, we're not doing that so don't worry. You said that it feels rushed with just one sim scene but I was going for a somewhat hectic pace. I needed there to be a decent passage of in-game time from the start of the game to the end of the last update but I wanted it to feel like things were happening fast with the MC not really able to keep up. I'll just take the L here.
I can't promise that I'll include options for each individual sex act within a given encounter, but I'll keep it in mind moving forward. Something a little more "niche" like touching a penis is going to get a separate option, sort of like how I handled the scene with Sin-D at the beginning.
I gave the option for a term other than bitch because I know some players have favorite terms, but I 100% agree that bitch works best. It will end up including the "breeding" qualifier quite often and "breeding slut" works but not nearly as well. I might go back and add a little (recommended) note next to it.
I don't know for sure if Nat's sister will make an appearance but an angle I was thinking of (which could apply to any of Nat, Mol, or Sara) is someone who knows the particular girl being unsettled by the changes in their lifestyle and showing up to investigate. Then, you'll just have to teach them to stop worrying and love the kink.
That massage scene was an exception to how I plan on handling things. There were some players who had been staying loyal to Nat, with no promise of additional content, and I figured they deserved a little something as a reward. Obviously, a lot of you who did not deserve it got it anyway but that's between you and god.
A lot of the confusion will probably get cleared up during the next update or two but there will be a decent amount of ambiguity regarding certain things for the rest of the game. It would be pretty hard/boring to play the role of someone struggling with their grip on reality if it is 100% clear what is real and what isn't.
Development is going great... just great... no problems at all...
I'm (mostly) kidding. The scene I've been working on (Claudette's) is a massive pain in the ass to get through. Basically, every design choice I made for this scene was the option that makes Daz go slow. Busy, cluttered environment, assets that need to be simulated constantly, complex lighting. But the renders look great so I'm not going to change anything.
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The consolation prize is that every time I get too frustrated with it to continue, I put in a little work on stuff that I need done for later scenes.
But, it's time I get back at it so everyone please lend me your strength.
Regarding kinks, it's best to gives option to skip or don't cater too many of them. Focus too much on certain kinks, many players who dislike them will just skip and feel the playtime being short.
Avoid too many characters as it will cut short screentime for character development and H scene for them.
Best to restrict the path that can happen for LIs. Too many path will make it too complex and hard to complete. Generally, devs usually go for love/corruption , good/bad end or harem/monogamy.
- Apr 2, 2024
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For some of the characters, their sim scenes will end up being a large portion of their total content. Characters like the girls at the office, and the girl who works at the gym. For characters like Candi or Kelli who will show up a lot alongside one of the main characters, it won't be as large a portion but it will still be a pretty large portion since those girls won't be getting a lot of content focused solely on them outside of their sim scenes. For Nat, Mol, Sara, Ness, Claudette, Stella, and Izzi, their individual sim scenes are going to be a small portion of their content.
Nat, Mol, and Sara are going to get the majority of the content. Ness, Claudette, Stella, and Izzi will get a good amount of content, but the actual amount might vary a little depending on how popular any one of them turns out to be. There won't really be different "paths" or "routes" for each girl, it will be more of a question of how much the MC plays into their kink. So, potentially bad news for some of you, there will be no version of Nat that isn't a submissive breeding bitch and there will be no version of Mol that isn't a bimbo. Their kinks aren't a thing the MC is causing/choosing, so your choices will be limited to how you react to them. A sort of exception to this might be how I end up handling the Nat/Sara/Ness dynamic, but I haven't really made a decision on the best way to handle that yet.
Part of the way I'm going to handle the size of the cast and their character development is that I'm going to avoid the standard procedure of giving you every girl's complete backstory. A good example of this would be the details of Ness, Izzi, Stella, and Claudette. I believe that at this point I have effectively communicated everything the player needs to know about their dynamic. You might get a few more details, but there isn't going to be a scene where you get a play-by-play rundown of their whole history. It's not really relevant to the story at large, I don't think it's needed to provide characterization, and it's also not really something people* do in real life.
I've mentioned epilogue-style endings for the different girls and there might be more than one for some/each of the girls. I don't know how long those endings will be, maybe it's just a few images and some narration, maybe it's a quick sex scene, maybe it's a full scene or even multiple scenes. We'll figure that out when we get closer to the end.
*Most people, we all know that one person who loves to recite their autobiography to everyone they meet.
Tbh by rushed I didn't mean in in-game time but character development. Without the sims the girls feel like flimsy porn characters whose identity is more kink than character.
You know, those games that feel like porn with bad acting. Seeing the sims add depth to the 3 characters & showcase their change/journey, making the characters much more fleshed out & real.
Otherwise it's just one dimensional porn characters suddenly acting like sluts in a half assed game with subpar depth or character development. (other games, not this one.)
The writings pretty good here that it doesn't feel that bad, but there's a noticeable difference in quality between the sims being present & absent in the playthrough - especially when specifically comparing those 2 storylines critically.
The sudden change in the girls might have been your intention, but in a porn game people aren't going to think that deeply, especially when there's no reference to induce such thoughts, & go with 'guess dev decided to focus on the sex instead of character development'
Which is sad cause I think the sims were very well done, very subtle but to the point character development. Honestly it was pretty great how the psyche & character development took place.
Which is why I felt it shouldn't be a forced option but an unavoidable preamble to the girls transformation.
Just trying to explain my views how removing the sims actually hurt how the story.
Basically their whole character development, atleast relating to adult themes, took place within the sims & so obviously cutting them out hurt their character development.
The game didn't really have additional scenes of similar character development outside of the sims & the game was maintaining a fast pace so that'd be problematic anyway.
Tl;Dr: The sims are well done, condensed character development the girls deserve, and just add a lot to the game to be not included in the average play-through.
Well, ended up typing a lot again. Sorry.
This was the another aspect I felt was bad about how the sims were handled, outside of the whole 'forced choices makes players feel like the game forces you to choose between girls'.
This is more about the story & characters rather than gameplay & choices.
Blasphemy.
Sisters is the best kink, better if they're twins.
Maybe non-identical twins who secretly envy identical twins so they become identical in the sims with features from both mixed together.
Agree. I was talking about the highway scene which was way too incoherent, especially just before the end of an update. It left me confused to the direction the game was going to take instead of a pleasant inception spinning top scene vibe.
A standard route, bundling kinks together with a girl. It should fit nicely in the structure of the game I can assume from the vr/ar setting.
What are the options in your mind?
Back stories are bad at character development anyway. They can set the tone but not worth the work setting it up as a big thing at the cost of current character development of the girls with events happening in the present & how they affect them.
Good luck & don't worry, you'll do great on the scene. Everyone here is supporting you
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- Apr 2, 2024
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Yeah, part of the reason why I said that I wouldn't go back and remove/limit the sims is because I would have to make up a lot of that development stuff throughout the rest of game and that would end up being a pretty major re-work. But I'm still not entirely sold on the idea that the MC would willingly go through each of the sims. I've made some conceits to let the MC get a little more comfortable with how Mol and Sara in particular are behaving but the idea is that he was supposed to be a healthy, well-adjusted adult with a normal, vanilla sex life. So, there's a bit of conflict between how I portrayed him and framed some of the decisions to then allow him to be eager about virtually fucking his family. Like I said earlier, the guard rails are coming down soon, but it felt kind of early in the story. I could get away with the, "he didn't really intend to do it but he definitely enjoyed it" angle but it feels like a big leap if immediately after Mol or Sara's final sim scene he jumps into another one since he couldn't justify it as necessary.Tbh by rushed I didn't mean in in-game time but character development. Without the sims the girls feel like flimsy porn characters whose identity is more kink than character.
You know, those games that feel like porn with bad acting. Seeing the sims add depth to the 3 characters & showcase their change/journey, making the characters much more fleshed out & real.
Otherwise it's just one dimensional porn characters suddenly acting like sluts in a half assed game with subpar depth or character development. (other games, not this one.)
The writings pretty good here that it doesn't feel that bad, but there's a noticeable difference in quality between the sims being present & absent in the playthrough - especially when specifically comparing those 2 storylines critically.
The sudden change in the girls might have been your intention, but in a porn game people aren't going to think that deeply, especially when there's no reference to induce such thoughts, & go with 'guess dev decided to focus on the sex instead of character development'
Which is sad cause I think the sims were very well done, very subtle but to the point character development. Honestly it was pretty great how the psyche & character development took place.
Which is why I felt it shouldn't be a forced option but an unavoidable preamble to the girls transformation.
Just trying to explain my views how removing the sims actually hurt how the story.
Basically their whole character development, atleast relating to adult themes, took place within the sims & so obviously cutting them out hurt their character development.
The game didn't really have additional scenes of similar character development outside of the sims & the game was maintaining a fast pace so that'd be problematic anyway.
Tl;Dr: The sims are well done, condensed character development the girls deserve, and just add a lot to the game to be not included in the average play-through.
Well, ended up typing a lot again. Sorry.
This was the another aspect I felt was bad about how the sims were handled, outside of the whole 'forced choices makes players feel like the game forces you to choose between girls'.
This is more about the story & characters rather than gameplay & choices.
Blasphemy.
Sisters is the best kink, better if they're twins.
Maybe non-identical twins who secretly envy identical twins so they become identical in the sims with features from both mixed together.
Agree. I was talking about the highway scene which was way too incoherent, especially just before the end of an update. It left me confused to the direction the game was going to take instead of a pleasant inception spinning top scene vibe.
A standard route, bundling kinks together with a girl. It should fit nicely in the structure of the game I can assume from the vr/ar setting. What are the options in your mind? Back stories are bad at character development anyway. They can set the tone but not worth the work setting it up as a big thing at the cost of current character development of the girls with events happening in the present & how they affect them.
Good luck & don't worry, you'll do great on the scene. Everyone here is supporting you
Twincest isn't a bad idea, but I might have to save that one for my next game.
So, the Nat/Sara/Ness dilemma, mostly the Sara/Ness part, is just a matter of establishing a hierarchy. Sara is going to be an aggressive, border-line sex pest and I'm sure you can picture how that would go if she tried to pull some shit on Ness. But, maybe the MC/player wants Sara to be top girl in the harem so he forces Ness to concede to Sara. Or maybe he likes Nat as queen bee of the harem so he wants the girls to defer to her for all things submissive and breedable. I imagine I'll just set a few variables and give the player a chance to explicitly make the decision about where each ranks but I haven't sorted out the details yet.
The gas station stuff is meant to be disorienting. I was originally going to have that come after Claudette's scene, but after the initial 0.3 release, when I started work on the next update, I decided it would work better before Claudette's scene. For reasons that will probably become obvious when I get 0.4 out. The game is going in a different direction than before*. Act 1 was just a large intro where I set the table by introducing the cast and the concepts around how the sims are supposed to work. The major themes of the game are going to be much more directly addressed from here on out. It's not all going to be incoherent nonsense like the gas station scene though.
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I appreciate the words of encouragement. While I was writing this reply dForce decided to stop working and I had to re-install my gpu drivers to get it working. Daz really doesn't want me to finish this damn scene.
*To be fair it's always been heading in this direction, but you get the point.
Again you got to separate the MC from the player.
The player plays the game.
The players sees Izzy & Zoe before MC even knows who they are.
The player, the audience, needs to see the sims so the girls appear well developed & not just hollow porn characters.
Not the MC.
Like the idea I suggested, we follow the girls in their sims & maybe the MC remarks which one he was watching as well...
For example: We follow the girls & see both sims during the 1st opportunity, then we see mc log in & he sees only a part of of the sim he chose.
Then during the 2nd opportunity, after mc watches 1 full sim(upgrade from last time, more time in the sim), we follow Qai as she goes into the other 2 sims to work on the bridge.
Then, for the last sim we see the sims in sequence (mom->sara->nat) & mc only watches the nat sim (makes most sense in the sequence of events of that night).
Removes a player choice, but it was negatively affecting the game anyway.
That way mc has limited info like you intened to convey, which we know because we have more info than him.
(Basically Nat Mol Sara get the Ness Stella Izzy treatment & get the sims to develop their character independent of the MC's knowledge or presence, just like the izzy+zoe scene or the izzy+stella scene, etc.)
I have never said the idea you had was wrong. Only the execution:
>Making players choose between girls gives them a certain impression of the game which may not be correct.
>By withholding 5-6 out of 8 sims from the audience, you are removing significant character development from the main girls & their journey from who they were at the start of the arc to the end of it, making the characters somewhat flimsy.
Neither conflict with what you wanted to express in regards to the MC as both are issues about presentation of the game, not it's story.
Just let the players see all the sims but mc can see only 2-3.
(I'm not pushing for you to change the game now btw. Just discussing the issue.)
The game was pretty fast paced anyway. The mc was pretty reserved actually. Many (including myself) were probably wishing he'd accept the depravity & his role as bull much more easily. But seeing him squirm was fun too
There's not much issue in this regard I feel.
No cest. The moment they are related to the mc, it becomes incest kink, not sisters kink or twins kink.Twincest isn't a bad idea, but I might have to save that one for my next game.
By sisters kink I meant 2 sisters involved with/serving the MC, not MC's relatives.
It's be hot if Nat brings her sister(s?) into her kink, since they're are also the same breeding stock genetically as her.
(No pressure but I think Nat's sister would win any poll verses Sara/Mol's long lost friend. Just saying
)Hmm, here's how my list would go:
Nat as top Queen obviously. She seems to have the most grasp of this role & how she handled Sara while returning the camera was hot af.
Sara next. She'd be the 'pest' as you put it, someone Nat has to keep in line & remind that they serve the MC & not her.
Ness for me would be the hidden submissive, the brat. Gives a tough impression but melts in the hands of the MC just like during the Ness sex scene. Likes to get competitive & secretly enjoys losing & being put into place by the person she loves(MC). Her rough exterior hides a fragile girl with a romantic heart, was my impression from the emerald scene in the office bathroom (great scene btw). So going a little further, her manliness & competitiveness hides a desire to be seen in a traditional female role & be put into that place.
So while she's the strongest outside the bedroom, she capitulates to Nat easily inside the bedroom cause she secretly aspires to what Nat preaches.
As for Ness-Sara, I'd think they'd have an healthy rivalry going on, both expressing their dominant/competitive side with each other since they have to submit to Nat & the MC.
So basically it'd be a back & forth with neither giving in, both enjoying the struggle, until Nat/MC enters the scene when they both become obedient to them.
Anyway, that'd be my dream scenario in regards to the Nat-Sara-Ness dilemma. Nat's already won the role with the initiative she's taken, with Sara, with Kate, with the underwear etc. (and her sister ofc
)And Ness I really liked her softer side in the office scene, so it'd be great if she continued that tsundere duality, where the more strong, bossy & competitive she is in public, the more of a submissive romantic she is to her bull in private. Someone who constantly fights everyone, but likes to lose only to her chosen one & be put into her place & taken.
And Sara I think I see as a switch, into everything & wishing that the MC would be the Sara to her Kelli, wishing to take/dominate everyone & but be taken/dominated by the MC. Someone who likes being in charge but doesn't resist being put into place by the MC, or Nat using his name, too much.
As these 2 both feel like duality/switch based characters, it'd be an interesting dynamic to see them kind of be in a never-ending struggle with each other, both enjoying each other as an outlet to their dominant & competitive side while the MC satisfies their submissive side.
Wow rambled a bit lol. Was hot to imagine tho
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- Apr 2, 2024
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I think I'm getting a better idea of what you're suggesting as an alternative for the pick one/see all dilemma and it could probably work. I'd want to spread them out some though if I did that, I think some of the story beats would feel off otherwise.Again you got to separate the MC from the player.
The player plays the game.
The players sees Izzy & Zoe before MC even knows who they are.
The player, the audience, needs to see the sims so the girls appear well developed & not just hollow porn characters.
Not the MC.
Like the idea I suggested, we follow the girls in their sims & maybe the MC remarks which one he was watching as well...
For example: We follow the girls & see both sims during the 1st opportunity, then we see mc log in & he sees only a part of of the sim he chose.
Then during the 2nd opportunity, after mc watches 1 full sim(upgrade from last time, more time in the sim), we follow Qai as she goes into the other 2 sims to work on the bridge.
Then, for the last sim we see the sims in sequence (mom->sara->nat) & mc only watches the nat sim (makes most sense in the sequence of events of that night).
Removes a player choice, but it was negatively affecting the game anyway.
That way mc has limited info like you intened to convey, which we know because we have more info than him.
(Basically Nat Mol Sara get the Ness Stella Izzy treatment & get the sims to develop their character independent of the MC's knowledge or presence, just like the izzy+zoe scene or the izzy+stella scene, etc.)
I have never said the idea you had was wrong. Only the execution:
>Making players choose between girls gives them a certain impression of the game which may not be correct.
>By withholding 5-6 out of 8 sims from the audience, you are removing significant character development from the main girls & their journey from who they were at the start of the arc to the end of it, making the characters somewhat flimsy.
Neither conflict with what you wanted to express in regards to the MC as both are issues about presentation of the game, not it's story.
Just let the players see all the sims but mc can see only 2-3.
(I'm not pushing for you to change the game now btw. Just discussing the issue.)
The game was pretty fast paced anyway. The mc was pretty reserved actually. Many (including myself) were probably wishing he'd accept the depravity & his role as bull much more easily. But seeing him squirm was fun too
There's not much issue in this regard I feel.
No cest. The moment they are related to the mc, it becomes incest kink, not sisters kink or twins kink.
By sisters kink I meant 2 sisters involved with/serving the MC, not MC's relatives.
It's be hot if Nat brings her sister(s?) into her kink, since they're are also the same breeding stock genetically as her.
(No pressure but I think Nat's sister would win any poll verses Sara/Mol's long lost friend. Just saying
Hmm, here's how my list would go:
Nat as top Queen obviously. She seems to have the most grasp of this role & how she handled Sara while returning the camera was hot af.
Sara next. She'd be the 'pest' as you put it, someone Nat has to keep in line & remind that they serve the MC & not her.
Ness for me would be the hidden submissive, the brat. Gives a tough impression but melts in the hands of the MC just like during the Ness sex scene. Likes to get competitive & secretly enjoys losing & being put into place by the person she loves(MC). Her rough exterior hides a fragile girl with a romantic heart, was my impression from the emerald scene in the office bathroom (great scene btw). So going a little further, her manliness & competitiveness hides a desire to be seen in a traditional female role & be put into that place.
So while she's the strongest outside the bedroom, she capitulates to Nat easily inside the bedroom cause she secretly aspires to what Nat preaches.
As for Ness-Sara, I'd think they'd have an healthy rivalry going on, both expressing their dominant/competitive side with each other since they have to submit to Nat & the MC.
So basically it'd be a back & forth with neither giving in, both enjoying the struggle, until Nat/MC enters the scene when they both become obedient to them.
Anyway, that'd be my dream scenario in regards to the Nat-Sara-Ness dilemma. Nat's already won the role with the initiative she's taken, with Sara, with Kate, with the underwear etc. (and her sister ofc
And Ness I really liked her softer side in the office scene, so it'd be great if she continued that tsundere duality, where the more strong, bossy & competitive she is in public, the more of a submissive romantic she is to her bull in private. Someone who constantly fights everyone, but likes to lose only to her chosen one & be put into her place & taken.
And Sara I think I see as a switch, into everything & wishing that the MC would be the Sara to her Kelli, wishing to take/dominate everyone & but be taken/dominated by the MC. Someone who likes being in charge but doesn't resist being put into place by the MC, or Nat using his name, too much.
As these 2 both feel like duality/switch based characters, it'd be an interesting dynamic to see them kind of be in a never-ending struggle with each other, both enjoying each other as an outlet to their dominant & competitive side while the MC satisfies their submissive side.
Wow rambled a bit lol. Was hot to imagine tho
As far as limiting the player, yeah, but that's a bit of a given. Every time I present the player a choice, and more so every time I don't, I am, in a way telling them what the MC's boundaries are. Obviously, I don't want to spend the whole game dangling sex in front of the player but having the MC decline, but I can't tell a story of the MC (potentially) getting corrupted if he starts off full-pervert.
By twincest I meant that obviously, the twin characters would end up getting sexy together. That would be a cruel tease if I included twins (identical or not) but didn't let the player at least get a threesome with them.
Nat is (I think) the most popular girl with the general audience. Kelli/Claudette seem to be the most popular with my supporters (at least they were, I've gained a handful more since the last poll I ran). But yeah, story wise it probably works best with Nat. I could always do the surprise Aunt visit, but it would feel less earned. I'd have to pull her into Nat's (or whoever this new character is related to) kink but put a little bit of a twist on it. Like maybe her sister is more interested in the BDSM portion of things than the breeding.
Nat as queen bee is a pretty clear choice, especially if you're into the breeding harem thing, but she's also the most willing of the three to accept a lower position. She doesn't really care who's above who as long as MC is on top and everyone else ends up with a baby in their belly. Sara will definitely play into the "He dominates me, I dominate everyone else". I don't think Ness will ever end up full on submissive, outside of the epilogue stuff, so much as she's just not really a dom. She enjoys topping other women, and she has that competitive streak, but she isn't a switch the same way that Izzi or Zoe are. That being said there will probably be some scenes where she gets a little dominant (particularly in one of the sim scenes I've got planned) and there will probably be some scenes where she ends up a little more submissive (coincidentally, also in that same sim scene). The details might end up shifting for a lot of this though. Nat's characterization, the whole assertively-submissive angle, didn't come to be until I was really fleshing out the writing for the last update.
First up: love the game so far.
Great characters I love or hate and an interesting story.
One comment on the planned new character:
Past side character the player could decline (club whore 1) started having relations with the sister. Since the second decline she vanished, but now is part of the Izzy relation.
The black whore started being "friends" with the mother without player imput, but that is still in the air I think.
Will the new one (trans if I got it right) also be interacting with major LIs, regardless if the player doesn't want them?
Personally I wouldn't mind a trans LI as long as they are restricted to the MC, but was very disappointed to see the unwanted prostitute being a major part of one of the main LIs, including unskippable femdom scenes.
To the suggestion of taking away the player choice, which sim they see: you had a futa scene in there that I didn't want to watch and I was glad I could choose what to visit.
So please be aware that you also take away the possibility for players to avoid certain content.
A simple save before the sim-choice made it easily possible to visit all I wanted to see.
Dunno if there was a LI-hype already, but please much more of the wonderful breeding-cuckquean, Nat is just awesome.
Keep up the great work.
Great characters I love or hate and an interesting story.
One comment on the planned new character:
Past side character the player could decline (club whore 1) started having relations with the sister. Since the second decline she vanished, but now is part of the Izzy relation.
The black whore started being "friends" with the mother without player imput, but that is still in the air I think.
Will the new one (trans if I got it right) also be interacting with major LIs, regardless if the player doesn't want them?
Personally I wouldn't mind a trans LI as long as they are restricted to the MC, but was very disappointed to see the unwanted prostitute being a major part of one of the main LIs, including unskippable femdom scenes.
To the suggestion of taking away the player choice, which sim they see: you had a futa scene in there that I didn't want to watch and I was glad I could choose what to visit.
So please be aware that you also take away the possibility for players to avoid certain content.
A simple save before the sim-choice made it easily possible to visit all I wanted to see.
Dunno if there was a LI-hype already, but please much more of the wonderful breeding-cuckquean, Nat is just awesome.
Keep up the great work.