VN Ren'Py It's Just a Game [v0.4.1] [DigiDec]

[Havenless_]

So, no romance but no corruption either. Just... Sex and porn. is that it? No deepening of the relationships between the MC and the girls? Just advancing the story that always ends in deranged sex and that's it? The way you put it, it honestly sounds more like a game about corruption, depravity, debauchery, etc.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. But I personally don't care if there's no focus on the personal and/or romantic relationships between the MC and the girls as well. For me it's, well, just that. Like watching simple porn. Watching a "story" where things happen that inevitably end in sex and that's it.

Like I said, nothing wrong with that. And of course I don't demand you to add or remove things. I simply want to know what your approach to personal relationships in your game will be. Thanks in advance. :B

 

[DigiDec]

So, no romance but no corruption either. Just... Sex and porn. is that it? No deepening of the relationships between the MC and the girls? Just advancing the story that always ends in deranged sex and that's it? The way you put it, it honestly sounds more like a game about corruption, depravity, debauchery, etc.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. But I personally don't care if there's no focus on the personal and/or romantic relationships between the MC and the girls as well. For me it's, well, just that. Like watching simple porn. Watching a "story" where things happen that inevitably end in sex and that's it.

Like I said, nothing wrong with that. And of course I don't demand you to add or remove things. I simply want to know what your approach to personal relationships in your game will be. Thanks in advance. :B

Great questions.

There will absolutely be themes of corruption in the game. There's probably a debate of whether the game would qualify for the corruption tag, at least if people are as particular about that tag as they are with harem and ntr , since it won't be the MC using his magical AI girlfriend to corrupt girls. I also intend for it to be ambiguous as to how much of the changes will be from the girls being altered versus the girls embracing/revealing their already existing desires. You could see the story as more of the MC becoming/resisting corruption but again there's not going to be explicit mind control/hypnotism/magic altering his mind. But putting tags aside, I *would* say the game will be about corruption, depravity, and debauchery.

The interpersonal relationships for the MC will be developed to varying extents. With some of the girls, it will be almost 100% physical. There will be different forms and levels of intimacy, not just physical, with the different girls in the game but romantic love, at least in the Hollywood/romance novel sense, is not going to be a major theme of the game. Other than the girlfriend character there are two other girls whose relationships with the MC might be interpreted as romantic, but it would be debatable, and I ultimately feel like it would be misleading if I advertised this game as a Romance game. There won't be a lot of hand-holding, sunset-watching, or declarations of undying affection.

Hope that clears things up, if not feel free to keep asking. I've got a full day of rendering ahead of me, so I'll be around.

Here's another taste of what's to come-

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[acondo]

Yeah, the tags aren't perfect.

If there was a sharing tag I'd add it. There's a swinging tag but I feel like that would be pretty misleading since there won't be wife-swap type stuff in the game.

And yeah, I could avoid a lot of the more extreme content to appeal to a broader audience. But there are a thousand* games like that already. I'm making something a little different. I'm going to be making it all optional, or at least all of the "real-world" sharing content would be optional with the option to skip the simulation stuff. It's okay if some people aren't interested, and I'm not mad about what anyone has posted so far, but if there's no shared definition for some of these terms we can't have a real conversation. I feel like I've been pretty open about what type of content will be included and why I've chosen the labels I've chosen. But if someone jumps into this thread to say that the Male Protagonist label is incorrect because in their head canon the MC is a trans woman I can't do anything about that.

*I made that number up

A game with that type of content, the sharing and swinging stuff, even if technically true, should not have the harem tag; it feels misleading, just in my opinion.

 

[DigiDec]

A game with that type of content, the sharing and swinging stuff, even if technically true, should not have the harem tag; it feels misleading, just in my opinion.

It's not my intention to mislead and if there was a more specific tag to use I would but for reference here is the current definition of the harem tag according to this site-

• Harem [1 person being courted by at least 3 others, all engaging in consensual sex simultaneously.]

And here is the proposed updated tag that isn't being used yet -

harem

A non-monogamous relationship centered around the protagonist being loved by at least two more people. Sex with outsiders is allowed as long as the core dynamic is not affected

So, again, I understand that people have different definitions for some of these terms and that some of them carry connotations that are not intrinsically required. It sucks, words are clumsy things. I'm not trying to get one over on anyone and I'm not trying to start some debate over tags on this site. However, I will not, and in reality cannot, apply arbitrary standards to match the expectations of every individual user on this site based on their own personal interpretations of these terms.

I don't think you're just trying to troll this thread so I'm willing to engage about this in good-faith. But you are not the first person to make the same assertion and you are not the first person I have explained myself to. I don't want this to be an echo chamber, I want to hear from people who think parts of the game need work but, I'm not going to keep having the same debates. Pretty soon I'm just going to start copy-pasting a canned response to comments like these and if I keep getting them I'll eventually start ignoring them entirely.

 

[Carnagie]

This was considerably better than I expected, liking the narrative direction you're taking on things.

Only worry so far is the MC being relatively passive, but given how that was pointed out even in the story by Stella(?) it seems like he'll be looking to make some more active decisions over time?

 

[DigiDec]

This was considerably better than I expected, liking the narrative direction you're taking on things.

Only worry so far is the MC being relatively passive, but given how that was pointed out even in the story by Stella(?) it seems like he'll be looking to make some more active decisions over time?

I'm unsure what your expectations were but I'm taking "considerably better" as a compliment and there's nothing you can do about it.

I actually went back and forth a lot about how passive/assertive the MC should be for this part of the game. The initial 0.1 before I cleaned stuff up for the 0.1.1 actually had the MC come off so passive it was almost to the point of submissive. I sort of talk about it some in my other comments but I'm trying to thread a needle a little bit. As the game progresses the player will have more influence on how the MC behaves but unfortunately, I needed events to unfold in a pretty specific way so I couldn't really give the player a lot of options. A better writer might have figured it out.

Personally, I really don't like completely meaningless choices in games. So, for example, I could've given you the choice to have the MC clap back or laugh at Ness when she's talking her shit, but the end result would've been the same and, to me at least, that makes the MC look more pathetic than if he just says or does nothing. I intend to allow you to play the MC as passive or assertive if you want and from my perspective, the transition from passive to assertive is more natural than vice-versa. You can see it as the MC snapping suddenly and standing up for himself or just read it as the MC has been playing a wait-and-see for an opportunity to make a move whereas having him go from a take-no-shit gigachad to just shrugging and rolling with the punches would be harder to justify. Again, a better writer might be able to figure it out.

Sorry for the tangent, I'm kind of just thinking out loud here.

TLDR: There will be opportunities for you to have the MC behave more assertively coming up. The game will be pretty linear, and I might totally fumble the writing, but I intend to let you play the MC multiple ways. I'm glad you liked the game and I'd love to hear your thoughts on how things are going once I get the next update out.

Here's another preview image as a reward for engaging -

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[Carnagie]

I'm unsure what your expectations were but I'm taking "considerably better" as a compliment and there's nothing you can do about it.

I actually went back and forth a lot about how passive/assertive the MC should be for this part of the game. The initial 0.1 before I cleaned stuff up for the 0.1.1 actually had the MC come off so passive it was almost to the point of submissive. I sort of talk about it some in my other comments but I'm trying to thread a needle a little bit. As the game progresses the player will have more influence on how the MC behaves but unfortunately, I needed events to unfold in a pretty specific way so I couldn't really give the player a lot of options. A better writer might have figured it out.

Personally, I really don't like completely meaningless choices in games. So, for example, I could've given you the choice to have the MC clap back or laugh at Ness when she's talking her shit, but the end result would've been the same and, to me at least, that makes the MC look more pathetic than if he just says or does nothing. I intend to allow you to play the MC as passive or assertive if you want and from my perspective, the transition from passive to assertive is more natural than vice-versa. You can see it as the MC snapping suddenly and standing up for himself or just read it as the MC has been playing a wait-and-see for an opportunity to make a move whereas having him go from a take-no-shit gigachad to just shrugging and rolling with the punches would be harder to justify. Again, a better writer might be able to figure it out.

Sorry for the tangent, I'm kind of just thinking out loud here.

TLDR: There will be opportunities for you to have the MC behave more assertively coming up. The game will be pretty linear, and I might totally fumble the writing, but I intend to let you play the MC multiple ways. I'm glad you liked the game and I'd love to hear your thoughts on how things are going once I get the next update out.

Here's another preview image as a reward for engaging -

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you should take it as a compliment, ye. You're pretty good.

Passivity in a set up is perfectly fine. I think you're threading the needle pretty well, and will keep doing so if you hit the sort of points you're planning to. I'm not worried about linearity (VNs as a rule are pretty linear), was just about... agency I guess?

Skipping forward abit onto your musings on meaningless choices, you're circling something pretty key to writing. One of the most important things you can have for an MC is making it feel like their choices matter. Nothing destroys engagement in a story more than than feeling the MC might as well be a mannequin dragged around by the events.

On the other hand, if the character of the MC shines through in a scene and informs their direction it feels way better-- because, even in a totally linear narrative, it feels like they're making important choices that impact the story.

Also, from a playstyle perspective, clicking on meaningless choices just makes people check out, ye.

(thanks for the pic)

 

[Canto Forte]

Some of us gamers around here, we come from Dead Space and Mass Effect:
- paragon vs. renegade set of skills that were running through the whole game as a paralel dymension of player agency on top of the narrative of whatever the corporate overlords or supervillains - that were steering the plot with their massively impactful scripted events - had in store for the MC and us players.

The romantic interest choice of being passive or following someone was also a paralel dymension to the overarching game plot.

These examples above are meant to show how objectively ” irellevant to the plot / meaningless” choices would not actually effect either of the plot armored vilains or the corporate overlords in the game; these choices though, they would still get appreciation and build up a serious following among fans of these games and let them feel engaged without it actually driving the plot forward or away from the corporate overlords or the supervillains whom the plot favored in the key sections from the narrative.

The two styles of player flavored choices that this game showcases to us this far into it seem to follow along the above mentioned lines:

1.- romantic/adult action in the very first scene with our best buddy trans hottie - eposing the fun in this game

versus

2.- going along with the sex sim while on route to the boss lair -supervilain and corporate overlord all in one- that is Ness in this game, where MC could be the passive emotionless drone going to get dumped on by the overbearing boss or the well travelled seasoned sim veteran MC is shown to be all over this game where he gets his own entertainment despite Ness preparing a ball busting blue ball bonanza for MC in her lair..

There it is, the moment where the actual choice of being a passive MC with choices, who can be nudged into what feels like his particular way to enjoy some sort of agency in this game: MC can have his fun if he wants to have a life of his own;

Or, as a coin toss of going straight into the lair of the beast and get neutered by both his bosses where he gets absolutely nothing for himself - the bad choice where he will be a bore, one gloom filled, lack luster - corporate drone for him to just show up to take heaps and heaps of abuse from Ness.

If the players really want the tone deaf +soul crushing+ fun devoid build of MC, setting him up to be just a rag doll for everybody else in this game, the choices are there.

Personally, I really don't like completely meaningless choices in games. So, for example, I could've given you the choice to have the MC clap back or laugh at Ness when she's talking her shit, but the end result would've been the same and, to me at least, that makes the MC look more pathetic than if he just says or does nothing. I intend to allow you to play the MC as passive or assertive if you want and from my perspective, the transition from passive to assertive is more natural than vice-versa. You can see it as the MC snapping suddenly and standing up for himself or just read it as the MC has been playing a wait-and-see for an opportunity to make a move whereas having him go from a take-no-shit gigachad to just shrugging and rolling with the punches would be harder to justify. Again, a better writer might be able to figure it out.

if the character of the MC shines through in a scene and informs their direction it feels way better-- because, even in a totally linear narrative, it feels like they're making important choices that impact the story.

Also, from a playstyle perspective, clicking on meaningless choices just makes people check out, ye.

Contrarry to what some players might deduce so far - being a henchman who would join Ness in missions around the simulations where they tag team some hottie or another - it means MC has to be a power player able to stand tall right next to Ness - even be her bull to spearhead her fun escapades - MC cannot be, at the same time, the rag doll she uses for target practice: where she would enjoy damaging him and dumping on him lots - and then, skip a couple a scenes, a total 180 degrees of Shades of Grey personality exchange - where MC is this strong and virile Kong to last days upon days of edging while he provides the biggest string of gushing soul combusting orgasms for Ness and her company of choice.

 

[DigiDec]

Some of us gamers around here, we come from Dead Space and Mass Effect:
- paragon vs. renegade set of skills that were running through the whole game as a paralel dymension of player agency on top of the narrative of whatever the corporate overlords or supervillains - that were steering the plot with their massively impactful scripted events - had in store for the MC and us players.

The romantic interest choice of being passive or following someone was also a paralel dymension to the overarching game plot.

These examples above are meant to show how objectively ” irellevant to the plot / meaningless” choices would not actually effect either of the plot armored vilains or the corporate overlords in the game; these choices though, they would still get appreciation and build up a serious following among fans of these games and let them feel engaged without it actually driving the plot forward or away from the corporate overlords or the supervillains whom the plot favored in the key sections from the narrative.

The two styles of player flavored choices that this game showcases to us this far into it seem to follow along the above mentioned lines:

1.- romantic/adult action in the very first scene with our best buddy trans hottie - eposing the fun in this game

versus

2.- going along with the sex sim while on route to the boss lair -supervilain and corporate overlord all in one- that is Ness in this game, where MC could be the passive emotionless drone going to get dumped on by the overbearing boss or the well travelled seasoned sim veteran MC is shown to be all over this game where he gets his own entertainment despite Ness preparing a ball busting blue ball bonanza for MC in her lair..

There it is, the moment where the actual choice of being a passive MC with choices, who can be nudged into what feels like his particular way to enjoy some sort of agency in this game: MC can have his fun if he wants to have a life of his own;

Or, as a coin toss of going straight into the lair of the beast and get neutered by both his bosses where he gets absolutely nothing for himself - the bad choice where he will be a bore, one gloom filled, lack luster - corporate drone for him to just show up to take heaps and heaps of abuse from Ness.

If the players really want the tone deaf +soul crushing+ fun devoid build of MC, setting him up to be just a rag doll for everybody else in this game, the choices are there.




Contrarry to what some players might deduce so far - being a henchman who would join Ness in missions around the simulations where they tag team some hottie or another - it means MC has to be a power player able to stand tall right next to Ness - even be her bull to spearhead her fun escapades - MC cannot be, at the same time, the rag doll she uses for target practice: where she would enjoy damaging him and dumping on him lots - and then, skip a couple a scenes, a total 180 degrees of Shades of Grey personality exchange - where MC is this strong and virile Kong to last days upon days of edging while he provides the biggest string of gushing soul combusting orgasms for Ness and her company of choice.

I apologize in advance if I misread your comment or if my response comes off a little disjointed. I just woke up and I'm still metabolizing my coffee.

For reference when I talk about meaningless choices, I don't mean every choice needs to directly impact the main plot of the game. I am more specifically against the type of choices that affect maybe one line of dialogue but don't actually do much to alter the player's experience with the game. A hypothetical example would be that when your girlfriend points out that you haven't responded to her texts, I could've given you the option to admit that you misplaced your phone or an option to lie to her and make up an excuse. Yes, it could help the player define/characterize their version of the MC, but the decision itself wouldn't really amount to anything and I'm already tracking most of the player's decisions. An ostensibly meaningless choice that's in the game, whether to check on your girlfriend or dick around on the computer, is serving this purpose. I don't want to overdo it with the variables though so I'm trying to minimize stuff like that. I'm trying to save it for when I can give the player more variation than a single line of dialogue and a slightly different facial expression.

The different flavors of sex at the beginning of the game aren't going to impact the plot but, I do think that they provide meaningful differences to the player's experience. Some of the options during sex scenes will affect the story, like the girl at the club, and some will just be me giving the player options of what they want to look at while their free hand is busy.

This is a sci-fi porn game so I'm not shooting for hyperrealism but, I am trying to keep certain parts of it, particularly the non-sexual interactions between characters, natural-seeming. This game is going to get pretty dark. I've avoided using that word to describe it because I don't want people thinking it's going to be some kind of edgelord, Snyderverse story where everyone is scowling and growling all the time but I am going to make it a point to present some of the events in an uncomfortable way. The general concept, not necessarily the plot, is regular dude's life turns into a porn game. I kind of outright present the player with the question if he chooses a certain option with Qai but the otherwise unspoken question I am asking the player is "Is that actually something you would want?". However, I am trying to have the characters speak and behave in realistic ways most of the time not because I think realism is better but because it will more sharply contrast how they will behave as everything becomes more sexual. Outside of the dialogue this also means that the direction of the story is going to be somewhat constrained by the question "What would a real person actually do in this situation?". Obviously, I won't be accounting for every possible outcome, people are unpredictable and some of us are just downright stupid, but as I've pointed out the MC is meant to be a pretty average normal dude at the start of the game, so I look at it from that perspective.

I *believe* you dislike how passive the MC came across and feel that there should have been some choices in the game to characterize him more assertively. I did not see any good opportunities in the first part of the game to let the player do that. I could've slipped in some choices for the player to decide what the MC is thinking to himself but I'm trying to avoid that as much as I can. Hot take - narrating the MC's thoughts is mostly a crutch. I can use it sparingly to help steer the tone of the game, draw the player's attention to something that might have slipped their mind, or assure the player that "No, you're not mistaken, this isn't a plot hole, that NPC is inaccurate which means they're lying or confused or stupid." but if I have to keep spelling out the MC's thoughts that means I'm not doing a good enough job communicating that information through the rest of the game. And if I'm just straight up telling the player how the MC feels about everything that happens it breaks immersion. I suspect, to varying degrees, a lot of us self-insert ourselves into the MCs of these types of games. If I avoid the MC thinking aloud that leaves room for the player to decide what their MC is thinking.

Since you seem to have an issue with Ness and her interactions with the MC I'll use the first meeting as an example of my thought process here -

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As far as 180 degree personality changes... we haven't even gotten there yet. The MC has barely interacted with Ness. He, and the player, don't really know anything about her and she doesn't really know anything about him. I've pointed out that this is a porn game and that I'm not the best writer, but maybe you could allow for the possibility that the Ness you've seen in the game is mostly an act she's putting on and not an accurate representation of her overall character. If/when the dynamic between Ness and the MC changes then, by all means, feel free to tell me that it was unrealistic or poorly handled.

I appreciate that this game left such a strong impression on you, especially Ness since she seems to be the focus of your comments, but you are making a lot of assumptions about how things are going to play out. It was my intention to get players excited/thinking about what's going to come next but I would suggest that you don't get too upset about hypothetical future versions of this game. Hell, don't get too excited about hypothetical future versions of this game either, I don't want to let anyone down so let's try to manage expectations a little.

The game has barely started. Everything so far is just an intro, I've introduced the player to some characters, and some concepts, provided an idea of the tone/aesthetic, and built the framework that will contain the story. To use one of your video game references, and a couple more recent games for the gen-z players, we're at the point of the game where Commander Shepard gets mindfucked by the beacon, where the MC brings his family into the vault in Fallout 4, or when the MC crashes the Nautiloid in Baldur's Gate 3. This game obviously won't be as expansive, or as well written, as those games, but they also did not provide a lot of choices for your character at that respective point in the game and the player had not yet been introduced to the main story.

Thank you for your enthusiasm, as a reward here's a picture of Qai-

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[Remembrance]

Great game.
It has a pretty unique concept (in terms of AVNs atleast) with a good+well executed plot & above average presentation (it can still be improved a lot, but AVNs in general are not good at it, even the really good ones, so).

Coupled with the considerate dev note & the devs engagement in the thread, this looks like a gem.
I'm give some feedback which is a mix of playing the game & reading the threads posts (which was a few days ago so the memory maybe a bit blurry)

The sex scene at the start was very nice. I'm usually not a fan of the "dropping an irrelevant sex scene at the very beginning" trick, but the start overall was done well here, with the loop override of the real thoughts giving it a nice little touch as obvious hints.
The scene itself was pretty nice with the choices, with variants to avoid sharing/futa & for the 3-way act too.
It'd have been great if those choices were flagged as well tho. With _sb being the only flag, it's kinda sad that we won't see that futa hacker again (or if we did there'd be no way to mention which variant of the SexBot scene was chosen)

The plot's pretty well done overall, with the character introductions & overall storyline pretty well staggered. In terms of storytelling atleast the games pretty good. We are slowly introduced to the plot & chracters at a good pace. The dialogue's pretty good too.
Atleast in terms of story development & presentation, this game has nothing to worry about.

Something that's kind of a pet peeve of mine is a lot of devs misconception of "replay value". They mistakenly believe making all content not available in a single playthrough will make a player replay the game, which is a flawed assumption. You're more likely to play the same great content in a good game again compated to trying to play bad new content in a bad game.
The replayability of a game is determined by it's quality & gameplay(eg: replaying mass effect on hard mode is for the fps game aspect)
In AVNs with almost no gameplay, it's best to not think about replayability & just craft the best story.
Of course, I don't mean to say there shouldn't be any choices or diverging routes or impactful choices (kinetic novels suck just as bad). What I mean is a dev shouldn't take replayability into account when crafting the story, making a choice just to force players to replay the game.
(minimising the divergence of routes is of course necessary even without such considerations. It just overinflates the budget at an exponential rate (time is money if you think solo devs have no budget))
Rather it'd be better to focus on crafting a good story with good routes without thinking about replayability.
Personally I feel a good game should have almost all content a player wants(eg dom route vs sub route is an example where the alternative route is something the player is happy to miss) in a single playthrough. Some divergence & routes are definitely preferred but not to the extent that you need to play the game multiple times to get the whole story/ the complete experience.
For example: In the current game, the club scene differs in 2 places based on your choice with ella.
The 1st one: whether you meet stella or not is fine imo. You presumably will meet her later anyway, so it's a nice impact of the ella choice.
The 2nd one, whether you see the ella+isabel scene however, was unnecessarily gated imo. Even if mc turns down ella, the scene should still play imo, with the dialogue content changing from "he fucked me" to "he turned me down"
The mom/sister choice at the end also makes sense since it seems like we'll just see the the other sim in the next choice.

So my advice would be: do try to avoid making a game that only makes sense across multiple playthroughs. Consequences of choices are fine, but cutscenes showing backstory (like ella+mistress scene) should be uniformly shown, with the content changing appropriately.
While there are probably people who play AVNs multiple times, I think it's a bit to tedious 80% of the time & I think this also applies to the silent majority (atleast in games without gameplay)

Moving on to girl-on-girl ntr: I think a lot of devs fall into the trap of looking at ntr in terms of definition instead of feeling. I've seen devs justify "it's not technically ntr" when it definitely felt like ntr (ofc ppl flying off the handle at a perfectly reasonable scene is more common). Ntr is a feeling & it depends on how it's executed imo.
As an example, for this game, I wouldn't mind if ness plays around with other ppl(I wouldn't even mind a male slave, but I think that'd be just me), but if the girlfriend nat hooks up with another girl (her friends for example) behind the mc's back, that'd be cheating/ntr imo.
Basically I don't like what's clearly cheating being waved off as nothing cause it's same sex. With same sex marriage being a reality these days, "it just some girl on girl fun, it's nothing serious" just doesn't fly.
It also has to do with character perception to a degree. Ness & Isabel doing it is fine since it's already established in their character development so far, however nat or the family doing it might feel a bit much, especially nat as the official loyal girlfriend with a shy/reserved personality.
Another point would be: It'd feel too much if everyone does it. If every female character is sleeping around with each other, it'd be pretty weird.
While I'm not against some lesbian scenes, especially if it has some bdsm flavours, too much wouldn't feel good.

Another thing relevant to this is player agency. Being able to choose, atleast for the non-powerful characters like the family & girlfriend (+their group) would improve the game experience immensely imo. From your mentioned examples, sharing the mom with ness or the sister growing a cock would be very different if it was forced with no alternatives vs if it was chosen with an alternative sex path.
The prologue scene gives me a good feeling tho, if similar structure is present in future sex scenes, with enough choices, it shouldn't be a problem at all.

Personally I see everything in a case by case basis. So whether I like the mom+ness scene or futa sister scene will totally depend on the specific scene. That being said, 2 points:
1. I like the game so far as of this release with no complaints (except maybe the ella scene being gated by mc_ell)
2. Choices are always great, such that the prologue scene with the sexbot was better than the scenes with nat.


Further feedback on vague things would be meaningless, I'll talk about it further after seeing the actual content in further releases.
Anyway, goodluck with the game.

ps: wonder what e c s stand for. mc_s is obviously tracking sex, but gotta wait to see how e & c are used.

oh, I also enjoyed how nat jealousy was the common theme in both the mom & sis sims

also, what's the planned release cycle for the game?

ps2: in response to the above discussion about MC assertiveness, I feel it could be solved by adding more inner thoughts/monologues to the MC.
Something along the lines of "Let's wait & see for now before deciding on further action/what moves to make"
Or, "I'm not gonna let this bitch boss me around for ever, but for now I need to accept I have the weaker hand & bide my time"
Lets the player know that the mc isn't a spineless dummy without capacity for thought, while still maintaining the current status quo. The dialogues just have to be open-ended enough that on the passive route it can become that MC couldn't turn it around & had to continue being passive.
I think the point that's annoying the players isn't that the mc is being passive, but the lack of any defined reaction from the mc.
Basically you need to put more effort to put your above explanation in-game, that MC is actually thinking this through & isn't going along with everything brainlessly without giving any thought or having any reaction to the situation.

Edit: On further thought, some such choices in the nat scenes would've been good maybe. I felt those were a bit kinetic beyond the yes/no choice & since they don't have the same power balance as ness-mc interactions, you could allow the players to define their characters a bit.
I agree with the meaningless choices part, so I'm not talking about choices like doggy vs missionary, but more character defining choices like how dominant/rough/selfish/etc he was in the relationship, subtly allowing the player to influence atleast some of the mc's relationship & character.
Another example: how he reacts to the girlfriend's friend wearing his shirt & barging in on them (this one might be a bit much if you are looking to keep the variables on the low side )

Anyway, just some thoughts.

 

[DigiDec]

Great game.
It has a pretty unique concept (in terms of AVNs atleast) with a good+well executed plot & above average presentation (it can still be improved a lot, but AVNs in general are not good at it, even the really good ones, so).

Coupled with the considerate dev note & the devs engagement in the thread, this looks like a gem.
I'm give some feedback which is a mix of playing the game & reading the threads posts (which was a few days ago so the memory maybe a bit blurry)

The sex scene at the start was very nice. I'm usually not a fan of the "dropping an irrelevant sex scene at the very beginning" trick, but the start overall was done well here, with the loop override of the real thoughts giving it a nice little touch as obvious hints.
The scene itself was pretty nice with the choices, with variants to avoid sharing/futa & for the 3-way act too.
It'd have been great if those choices were flagged as well tho. With _sb being the only flag, it's kinda sad that we won't see that futa hacker again (or if we did there'd be no way to mention which variant of the SexBot scene was chosen)

The plot's pretty well done overall, with the character introductions & overall storyline pretty well staggered. In terms of storytelling atleast the games pretty good. We are slowly introduced to the plot & chracters at a good pace. The dialogue's pretty good too.
Atleast in terms of story development & presentation, this game has nothing to worry about.

Something that's kind of a pet peeve of mine is a lot of devs misconception of "replay value". They mistakenly believe making all content not available in a single playthrough will make a player replay the game, which is a flawed assumption. You're more likely to play the same great content in a good game again compated to trying to play bad new content in a bad game.
The replayability of a game is determined by it's quality & gameplay(eg: replaying mass effect on hard mode is for the fps game aspect)
In AVNs with almost no gameplay, it's best to not think about replayability & just craft the best story.
Of course, I don't mean to say there shouldn't be any choices or diverging routes or impactful choices (kinetic novels suck just as bad). What I mean is a dev shouldn't take replayability into account when crafting the story, making a choice just to force players to replay the game.
(minimising the divergence of routes is of course necessary even without such considerations. It just overinflates the budget at an exponential rate (time is money if you think solo devs have no budget))
Rather it'd be better to focus on crafting a good story with good routes without thinking about replayability.
Personally I feel a good game should have almost all content a player wants(eg dom route vs sub route is an example where the alternative route is something the player is happy to miss) in a single playthrough. Some divergence & routes are definitely preferred but not to the extent that you need to play the game multiple times to get the whole story/ the complete experience.
For example: In the current game, the club scene differs in 2 places based on your choice with ella.
The 1st one: whether you meet stella or not is fine imo. You presumably will meet her later anyway, so it's a nice impact of the ella choice.
The 2nd one, whether you see the ella+isabel scene however, was unnecessarily gated imo. Even if mc turns down ella, the scene should still play imo, with the dialogue content changing from "he fucked me" to "he turned me down"
The mom/sister choice at the end also makes sense since it seems like we'll just see the the other sim in the next choice.

So my advice would be: do try to avoid making a game that only makes sense across multiple playthroughs. Consequences of choices are fine, but cutscenes showing backstory (like ella+mistress scene) should be uniformly shown, with the content changing appropriately.
While there are probably people who play AVNs multiple times, I think it's a bit to tedious 80% of the time & I think this also applies to the silent majority (atleast in games without gameplay)

Moving on to girl-on-girl ntr: I think a lot of devs fall into the trap of looking at ntr in terms of definition instead of feeling. I've seen devs justify "it's not technically ntr" when it definitely felt like ntr (ofc ppl flying off the handle at a perfectly reasonable scene is more common). Ntr is a feeling & it depends on how it's executed imo.
As an example, for this game, I wouldn't mind if ness plays around with other ppl(I wouldn't even mind a male slave, but I think that'd be just me), but if the girlfriend nat hooks up with another girl (her friends for example) behind the mc's back, that'd be cheating/ntr imo.
Basically I don't like what's clearly cheating being waved off as nothing cause it's same sex. With same sex marriage being a reality these days, "it just some girl on girl fun, it's nothing serious" just doesn't fly.
It also has to do with character perception to a degree. Ness & Isabel doing it is fine since it's already established in their character development so far, however nat or the family doing it might feel a bit much, especially nat as the official loyal girlfriend with a shy/reserved personality.
Another point would be: It'd feel too much if everyone does it. If every female character is sleeping around with each other, it'd be pretty weird.
While I'm not against some lesbian scenes, especially if it has some bdsm flavours, too much wouldn't feel good.

Another thing relevant to this is player agency. Being able to choose, atleast for the non-powerful characters like the family & girlfriend (+their group) would improve the game experience immensely imo. From your mentioned examples, sharing the mom with ness or the sister growing a cock would be very different if it was forced with no alternatives vs if it was chosen with an alternative sex path.
The prologue scene gives me a good feeling tho, if similar structure is present in future sex scenes, with enough choices, it shouldn't be a problem at all.

Personally I see everything in a case by case basis. So whether I like the mom+ness scene or futa sister scene will totally depend on the specific scene. That being said, 2 points:
1. I like the game so far as of this release with no complaints (except maybe the ella scene being gated by mc_ell)
2. Choices are always great, such that the prologue scene with the sexbot was better than the scenes with nat.


Further feedback on vague things would be meaningless, I'll talk about it further after seeing the actual content in further releases.
Anyway, goodluck with the game.

ps: wonder what e c s stand for. mc_s is obviously tracking sex, but gotta wait to see how e & c are used.

oh, I also enjoyed how nat jealousy was the common theme in both the mom & sis sims

also, what's the planned release cycle for the game?

ps2: in response to the above discussion about MC assertiveness, I feel it could be solved by adding more inner thoughts/monologues to the MC.
Something along the lines of "Let's wait & see for now before deciding on further action/what moves to make"
Or, "I'm not gonna let this bitch boss me around for ever, but for now I need to accept I have the weaker hand & bide my time"
Lets the player know that the mc isn't a spineless dummy without capacity for thought, while still maintaining the current status quo. The dialogues just have to be open-ended enough that on the passive route it can become that MC couldn't turn it around & had to continue being passive.
I think the point that's annoying the players isn't that the mc is being passive, but the lack of any defined reaction from the mc.
Basically you need to put more effort to put your above explanation in-game, that MC is actually thinking this through & isn't going along with everything brainlessly without giving any thought or having any reaction to the situation.

Edit: On further thought, some such choices in the nat scenes would've been good maybe. I felt those were a bit kinetic beyond the yes/no choice & since they don't have the same power balance as ness-mc interactions, you could allow the players to define their characters a bit.
I agree with the meaningless choices part, so I'm not talking about choices like doggy vs missionary, but more character defining choices like how dominant/rough/selfish/etc he was in the relationship, subtly allowing the player to influence atleast some of the mc's relationship & character.
Another example: how he reacts to the girlfriend's friend wearing his shirt & barging in on them (this one might be a bit much if you are looking to keep the variables on the low side )

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Awesome. Great stuff. Love it.

I'm glad you liked it overall and if you have any more specific feedback on how to improve the presentation or anything else please feel free to drop another comment. I have thick skin, you won't hurt my feelings.

I sort of just dropped the ball by not tracking which option the player selects in the first sex scene. Even if neither of those characters returns, I think any time I can reference previous decisions helps make the game feel a little more whole. I don't think you're the first person to express disappointment about Sin-D being a one and done, if there's actually some demand for it I might bring her back later. She wouldn't be a big part of the game but there are absolutely going to be opportunities for her to appear again that would fit the flow of the story.

I know I referenced replay value earlier so I should probably clarify that I'm not trying to build 2 or 3 different games on top of each other. You shouldn't have a problem seeing all the scenes you want to see in one playthrough. But if you want to try a different style just to see the differences or you're feeling a little freaky while waiting on the next update you'll get to see a handful of scenes that you might not have before in addition to variations of the sex scenes. I'm not *trying* to punish players it's more of an attempt to balance content and filter a little bit based on how you seem to be approaching the MC. The scene with the girl from the club (side note:her name's not ella*) and her sexual partner gives the player some information a little bit early but even if you skipped her entirely you're going to get that information pretty soon in the next update. And hopefully, this doesn't set off any debates again but, I also operated under the assumption that if you're the type of MC who's going to cheat on his girlfriend with some random slut who you've only known for 30 seconds you're not going to get your feelings hurt if I show you that slut getting fucked up the ass with a strap on by some other girl later on. Turns out I might have made a mistake with that assumption but hey, live and learn.

There will be some content that you miss that isn't necessarily tied to personal player preference. I understand that this is probably a controversial decision on my part. Specifically, I'm talking about the sims. Let's say you chose to creep in on Sara's sim at the end of the current game. In the next update, if you choose to go with Mol's you're not going to see the same thing as you would've if you chose Mol at the first decision. Both of those scenes took place at that time, even though you only got to see one of them. Again, I understand this is going to be a controversial decision on my part but I think it helps the tone of the game for the MC to be in the dark and caught off guard by how the girls will start behaving and to translate that to the player I need to keep them in the dark a little bit as well. I'm sure someone will put out a cheat mod that lets you see everything though.

Girl on girl NTR. Isn't really going to be a thing in this game. As in nothing I plan on putting in is what I would consider to be NTR, I don't think I have an overly specific definition either, and every girl isn't going to end up pursuing every other girl. Ness for example is not going to be coming after any of the other characters. I know everyone is getting big time fem dom ball buster vibes from her but she's got a healthy sex life of her own, she doesn't need the MC's girls. You will have the option to share some of your girls with her but I think it's going to come off as more of an open relationship/polycule/harem dynamic. We'll see. If we get to it and (reasonable) people say it is NTR then I'll add the tag and make sure to warn everyone upfront. There will be a couple more scenes of the two girls engaging in some bdsm play but I also don't think that falls under NTR since there shouldn't be any expectation of exclusivity or emotional attachment between the MC and the girl he may or may not have fucked. Once we get there in the game or alternatively once/if f95 switches to the proposed updated tags I'll take another look at how I'm labeling/advertising the game.

I'm trying not to pigeonhole the player either so like you said everything, at least most everything, will be case by case. Just because you and Ness tag team some girl that isn't going to be blanket permission for Ness to jump into every sexual encounter from then on out. If the player is constantly picking a particular type of content that might influence some scenes later without explicit player confirmation but we'll see about that when we get there. I mean for example if you just go all in on Ness and you spit roasting every girl in the game I might have a variation of a scene later that just opens up with you and her going at it with a girl. Like I said, we'll see. I don't want to juggle a thousand variables and I don't want to be so busy building variant scenes that the game never gets finished. The sim scenes will be the only ones where the player doesn't really have any agency over who is involved or how things play out but that's because those scenes represent the respective girl's experience and the MC is sort of just along for the ride. I know that decision on my part is also going to be a little controversial but hey, I can't please everyone.

The sex scenes with Nat at the beginning were intentionally pretty tame. It was just another way for me to communicate that as of the start of things the MC has a kind of vanilla, boring sex life without making him a virgin or desperate to get laid. It also helps set up the contrast for how things can/will turn out. I do believe that in reality most "regular" people are also actually into some freaky shit and there's not anything exceptional about a little rough sex or other kink play between two people but I'm lazy and this was an easy way to set the tone.

I talked about narrating the MC's inner monologue in another post but it looks like I might need to re-evaluate how I'm handling it since it's causing so many negative impressions. It probably boils down to personal preference but if I'm in the overwhelming minority I'm happy to adjust.

More technical stuff - You nailed it with the mc_s, but don't get too hung up on the c and e. They're pretty vaguely defined on my end and they're just a way for me to kind of track the MC's general attitude towards things. They will end up affecting some of the dialogue/reactions later but I don't think they'll be relevant for another update or two. I also probably need to add one or two more to track some more specific information about the MC's attitude so don't be surprised if some more pop up in the code.

As for release cycle... I dunno. If I ever get some paid supporters I'll let them have a pretty big say in it but for now I'm kind of playing it by ear. There's a point in the game coming up that I think is a great stopping point for a release, it would basically end the same way the current one does. But I'm a first-time dev, I have no track record and I haven't earned the benefit of the doubt. If I want to build up a following I kind of need to put out releases as quickly as I can, so long as they aren't so short that people start skipping them. I think monthly releases will work at first, but as we get further into the game and more variance gets baked in I'm not sure if I could sustain monthly releases at the minimum quality/quantity level I would want for each update. Hopefully, by the time we get there, I'll have 100,000 subscribers and I'll leave the decision up to them.

*Did I ever refer to her as Ella? Did that slip into the game at all? If so, pretend it didn't. Ella is too close to Stella so her name is going to be Zoe. We have always been at war with Westasia. You got the other girl's name right but she goes by Izzy.

I don't want to spoil too much and I don't want to get too repetitive so I might run out of teaser images to use as prizes for comments like this pretty soon but here's a pretty picture -

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I might have missed it, in which case I apologize, but I haven't seen any comments on Nat's different body types. I know you only got a tiny peek at one of them but I'd love to hear everyone's preference.

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[gregers]

I don't think you're the first person to express disappointment about Sin-D being a one and done, if there's actually some demand for it I might bring her back later. She wouldn't be a big part of the game but there are absolutely going to be opportunities for her to appear again that would fit the flow of the story.

Sin-D appearing in the new opening instead of Nat set up an initial expectation for me that she would be the more important character and Nat had seemingly been relegated to a secondary role. I know that's not the case from reading the thread and playing through the rest, just giving you my initial impression for what little it's worth.

The scene with the girl from the club (side note:her name's not ella*) and her sexual partner gives the player some information a little bit early but even if you skipped her entirely you're going to get that information pretty soon in the next update. And hopefully, this doesn't set off any debates again but, I also operated under the assumption that if you're the type of MC who's going to cheat on his girlfriend with some random slut who you've only known for 30 seconds you're not going to get your feelings hurt if I show you that slut getting fucked up the ass with a strap on by some other girl later on. Turns out I might have made a mistake with that assumption but hey, live and learn.

Everybody's different. I have no interest in sex scenes that don't involve the MC but was slightly put out to be missing what seemed to be plot-relevant info just because I'd had the MC refuse to trade away his secrets for sex with (what he took to be) some random skank. Doesn't necessarily make him a moral paragon.

I had him go along with the original proposition but refuse to tell her anything, which meant he managed to piss off just about everyone and missed the chance to ingratiate himself with Stella.

There will be some content that you miss that isn't necessarily tied to personal player preference. I understand that this is probably a controversial decision on my part. Specifically, I'm talking about the sims. Let's say you chose to creep in on Sara's sim at the end of the current game. In the next update, if you choose to go with Mol's you're not going to see the same thing as you would've if you chose Mol at the first decision. Both of those scenes took place at that time, even though you only got to see one of them. Again, I understand this is going to be a controversial decision on my part but I think it helps the tone of the game for the MC to be in the dark and caught off guard by how the girls will start behaving and to translate that to the player I need to keep them in the dark a little bit as well. I'm sure someone will put out a cheat mod that lets you see everything though.

Yeah I'd query the wisdom of that decision. From a player's perspective it's just needlessly annoying when the MC could just as easily have the option to dip in on either or both sims in succession, and from a dev point-of-view I imagine that it opens up a lot of variations to cover if, say, the MC watches Sara's sim on the first two opportunities but chooses to visit Mol's on the third and then pop back to Sara's for a fourth visit.

I can cheat around it on my end with a bit of label jumping and incrementing a variable or two, but why should I have to? Does it contribute anything valuable to the game experience other than aggravating completionist players?

There will be a couple more scenes of the two girls engaging in some bdsm play but I also don't think that falls under NTR since there shouldn't be any expectation of exclusivity or emotional attachment between the MC and the girl he may or may not have fucked.

It probably doesn't count as NTR, no (though some here are bound to disagree vociferously). On the other hand I have zero interest in voyeurism, so hope the MC watching will be optional.

I talked about narrating the MC's inner monologue in another post but it looks like I might need to re-evaluate how I'm handling it since it's causing so many negative impressions. It probably boils down to personal preference but if I'm in the overwhelming minority I'm happy to adjust.

I must have missed what you said about it before, but think inner monologue can definitely be overused, and quite often is by inexperienced writers of these sort of games who feel the need to explain every passing thought. On the other hand, it can be effective when applied judiciously and sparingly.

As for release cycle... I dunno. If I ever get some paid supporters I'll let them have a pretty big say in it but for now I'm kind of playing it by ear. There's a point in the game coming up that I think is a great stopping point for a release, it would basically end the same way the current one does. But I'm a first-time dev, I have no track record and I haven't earned the benefit of the doubt. If I want to build up a following I kind of need to put out releases as quickly as I can, so long as they aren't so short that people start skipping them. I think monthly releases will work at first, but as we get further into the game and more variance gets baked in I'm not sure if I could sustain monthly releases at the minimum quality/quantity level I would want for each update. Hopefully, by the time we get there, I'll have 100,000 subscribers and I'll leave the decision up to them.

Trying for monthly-ish (month-and-a-half, two months) releases early on to build up some momentum sounds like a good idea. Trying to sustain that cadence in the long run however is a recipe for burn-out. As you say, the further we get into the game, the more variants and existing decisions you'll have to account for.

I might have missed it, in which case I apologize, but I haven't seen any comments on Nat's different body types. I know you only got a tiny peek at one of them but I'd love to hear everyone's preference.

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I appreciate a bit of junk in the trunk as a general rule, but that hip-waist-shoulder ratio seems unflattering.

 

[DigiDec]

Sin-D appearing in the new opening instead of Nat set up an initial expectation for me that she would be the more important character and Nat had seemingly been relegated to a secondary role. I know that's not the case from reading the thread and playing through the rest, just giving you my initial impression for what little it's worth.



Everybody's different. I have no interest in sex scenes that don't involve the MC but was slightly put out to be missing what seemed to be plot-relevant info just because I'd had the MC refuse to trade away his secrets for sex with (what he took to be) some random skank. Doesn't necessarily make him a moral paragon.

I had him go along with the original proposition but refuse to tell her anything, which meant he managed to piss off just about everyone and missed the chance to ingratiate himself with Stella.



Yeah I'd query the wisdom of that decision. From a player's perspective it's just needlessly annoying when the MC could just as easily have the option to dip in on either or both sims in succession, and from a dev point-of-view I imagine that it opens up a lot of variations to cover if, say, the MC watches Sara's sim on the first two opportunities but chooses to visit Mol's on the third and then pop back to Sara's for a fourth visit.

I can cheat around it on my end with a bit of label jumping and incrementing a variable or two, but why should I have to? Does it contribute anything valuable to the game experience other than aggravating completionist players?



It probably doesn't count as NTR, no (though some here are bound to disagree vociferously). On the other hand I have zero interest in voyeurism, so hope the MC watching will be optional.




I must have missed what you said about it before, but think inner monologue can definitely be overused, and quite often is by inexperienced writers of these sort of games who feel the need to explain every passing thought. On the other hand, it can be effective when applied judiciously and sparingly.



Trying for monthly-ish (month-and-a-half, two months) releases early on to build up some momentum sounds like a good idea. Trying to sustain that cadence in the long run however is a recipe for burn-out. As you say, the further we get into the game, the more variants and existing decisions you'll have to account for.



I appreciate a bit of junk in the trunk as a general rule, but that hip-waist-shoulder ratio seems unflattering.

I can see what you mean by expectations versus reality with the updated opening. I might end up going back and tweaking it some but not until a few more updates that actually push the story further. I think that once it becomes proportionally speaking a smaller part of the game it will feel much less significant to the players.

Don't worry, you'll have plenty of chances to spend some time with Stella soon. I don't intend to have different updates focus on different girls but the way things go it will sort of happen naturally that some updates are unbalanced with the ladies. Depending on where I draw the stopping point for the upcoming update you might only get a little time with Stella but she should feature pretty prominently in the one after that.

I'm hoping that my plans for how to handle the MC's little trips into the sims are one of those things that I'm just not communicating well, and you guys end up liking it. I'm not trying to be the type of creator who holds their audience in contempt, but I do very firmly believe that there is often a large gap between what an audience asks for and what it wants. I think the newer Star Wars movies provide a great example of that regardless of your opinion on any particular part of them. So, the way I'm handling it actually means less variation. If I let you wait until a quarter of the way through the game to check in on Mol I'd have to create a version where her transformation doesn't start until later. And yeah, it's a bit of a forced choice on my part because why would it just so happen that these incredibly relevant scenarios in the girls' sims only happen when they are all logged in at the exact same time? Because I decreed it to be that way to make sure the story moves along and allow me a way to maintain a little mystery. After another couple of updates if everyone ends up being turned off by it or it just leads to everyone being confused as hell I'll go back and change how I'm handling it.

This is what I said earlier about having the MC monologue. The original post is only a few comments back if you want to see the rest for context.

...I could've slipped in some choices for the player to decide what the MC is thinking to himself but I'm trying to avoid that as much as I can. Hot take - narrating the MC's thoughts is mostly a crutch. I can use it sparingly to help steer the tone of the game, draw the player's attention to something that might have slipped their mind, or assure the player that "No, you're not mistaken, this isn't a plot hole, that NPC is inaccurate which means they're lying or confused or stupid." but if I have to keep spelling out the MC's thoughts that means I'm not doing a good enough job communicating that information through the rest of the game. And if I'm just straight up telling the player how the MC feels about everything that happens it breaks immersion. I suspect, to varying degrees, a lot of us self-insert ourselves into the MCs of these types of games. If I avoid the MC thinking aloud that leaves room for the player to decide what their MC is thinking.

Maybe I can find something in between those two versions of Nat. I went a little overboard on the thicker version because I wanted the players to notice and for what I'm considering it would work out just fine if I end up somewhere between the two.

I don't want to discourage anyone from continuing the discussion like you have but I am starting to scrape the barrel on teaser images, at least until I finish rendering the scene I'm working on now.

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[Axelfire]

yeah i noticed the difference in body types during the simulation sequences, personally I'm all for the curvier body type.<
tough this does beg the question. while i guess we can sort of guess that the mother might become a bimbo irl, by way of plastic surgery and the works, what of the other characters will they have any irl fisical changes? (or will it be a plot point of the blurring between reality and fiction)

 

[DigiDec]

yeah i noticed the difference in body types during the simulation sequences, personally I'm all for the curvier body type.<
tough this does beg the question. while i guess we can sort of guess that the mother might become a bimbo irl, by way of plastic surgery and the works, what of the other characters will they have any irl fisical changes? (or will it be a plot point of the blurring between reality and fiction)

The mother is the only one that will undergo a major transformation "irl". The other girls might have different appearances in the sims, and those appearances might change, but I don't have any plans for them to undergo drastic changes in the real world. Except Nat might put on some weight. I've mentioned a few times that the game will take place over a decent period of time, I'm going to try to be non-specific but probably around a year, so gaining/losing weight is perfectly within the realm of possibility. Some of the girls might get haircuts too since I don't love working with all the hair assets I've used. But outside the mother the changes would be more subtle and in Nat's case it would probably be a more gradual thing.

 

[Axelfire]

fair enough makes sense, that way we still have some elements of transformation, while avoiding the pitfalls of excessive rendering that more transformation focused games go through

 

[DigiDec]

Question for the class:

How comfortable/familiar/concerned are you with how the simulations work in the story? I'm not interested in making the functionality too detailed but I also want to make sure that the audience has a good enough feel for how they work that they don't get thrown out of immersion, or feel like I'm doing too much hand wavy bullshit. So I'm going to bullet point out some info that is of varying degrees of relevance and I'd love to hear if it all jives with your understanding.

• While in the simulation the user doesn't have access to their real memories
• Once the simulation is over the user remembers everything that happened in the sim
• Qoniv is the company that ultimately controls/operates the system the sims run on
• Individual sims are kind of like video games, there are different genres and series, etc.
• You access the sim by using a headset that syncs with a neural implant*

I'm writing out some of the scenes right now and I'm unsure if/how much I need to highlight any of these points.

There's a statistic that I have to fact-check every time I see about how 54% of adult Americans read at or below a 6th-grade level, which for reference is Harry Potter/Nancy Drew/Goosebumps. I think it's pretty safe to assume that people who play games like this one are reading at a much higher level than that but I also think most games like this one are very straightforward and blunt with the writing. Also, English might not be a player's first language which could complicate things a little.

I've mostly been thinking about Ness and some of the reactions to her/the MC's situation. I think many of the people who played the game so far took everything Ness said at complete face value, which has strongly impacted their impressions of her, the story, and where it is heading. Now obviously there's not a lot of game out yet so there's still plenty of time for people to adjust expectations and having some surprises and twists in the story is fun. But I also don't want the audience to feel that the surprises/twists are unearned, arbitrary, or contrived. I don't think we'll be able to determine if I'm doing it right for another update or two but any early thoughts/comments would be appreciated.

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*I originally was going to have the characters control basically every electronic device with the implant but it ended up looking real dumb. Imagine if every time someone was fiddling with their phone or using a computer I had just used an image of them staring off into space.

 

[Lerd0]

Question for the class:

How comfortable/familiar/concerned are you with how the simulations work in the story? I'm not interested in making the functionality too detailed but I also want to make sure that the audience has a good enough feel for how they work that they don't get thrown out of immersion, or feel like I'm doing too much hand wavy bullshit. So I'm going to bullet point out some info that is of varying degrees of relevance and I'd love to hear if it all jives with your understanding.

• While in the simulation the user doesn't have access to their real memories
• Once the simulation is over the user remembers everything that happened in the sim
• Qoniv is the company that ultimately controls/operates the system the sims run on
• Individual sims are kind of like video games, there are different genres and series, etc.
• You access the sim by using a headset that syncs with a neural implant*

I'm writing out some of the scenes right now and I'm unsure if/how much I need to highlight any of these points.

There's a statistic that I have to fact-check every time I see about how 54% of adult Americans read at or below a 6th-grade level, which for reference is Harry Potter/Nancy Drew/Goosebumps. I think it's pretty safe to assume that people who play games like this one are reading at a much higher level than that but I also think most games like this one are very straightforward and blunt with the writing. Also, English might not be a player's first language which could complicate things a little.

I've mostly been thinking about Ness and some of the reactions to her/the MC's situation. I think many of the people who played the game so far took everything Ness said at complete face value, which has strongly impacted their impressions of her, the story, and where it is heading. Now obviously there's not a lot of game out yet so there's still plenty of time for people to adjust expectations and having some surprises and twists in the story is fun. But I also don't want the audience to feel that the surprises/twists are unearned, arbitrary, or contrived. I don't think we'll be able to determine if I'm doing it right for another update or two but any early thoughts/comments would be appreciated.

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*I originally was going to have the characters control basically every electronic device with the implant but it ended up looking real dumb. Imagine if every time someone was fiddling with their phone or using a computer I had just used an image of them staring off into space.

..always assume...the players are fuckin retarded....
...cuz we pretty much all are.....
View attachment But the people are retarded.mp4

 

[Canto Forte]

This game is a very good fantasy of what the juggernaut Cyberpunk 2077 could become is more exciting ways to enter that game were to be developped and DLCs would be shipped out once every half year with thematically charged missions like the space fantasy MC is in in the beginnign or the Egyptian gods meet Norse gods team up fantasy in the very end of this game.

It has the barely comprehensible technology Blade runner had throughout the movies, with unexplained bilogy and/or electronics of the enhanced cyborgs or humans with cybernetic prosthetics or all the other strange and mildly bizarre apparitions in there - all those bullet points are pretty counter intuitive to what we see in this game so far - we only assume every time the girls put on their glowing glasses or the glowing ear piece - they are logging in the same game MC is develloping - but by the sheer fact MC is working with the hacker from the very first scene and that he even managed to create the avatar for his immagination - the girl who effectively floats and blows up the bar with the girl and the maniac who raped her in it - that is a mighty impactful scene.

MC is just a desk jockey so far - a geek with interesting bilogy with a knockout GF who understands when battles cannot be won. So far, in the real world, MC is not actually in the know about his actual work and we are seriously inb the dark about what MC does, what the sims actually do.

Most games out there show when MC logs in or out, when other characters log in or out.
This game just shows the sims where other characters than MC reside with very little to no context.

We as players do not know what are the plot relevant scenes - those where we might need to recount something of the dialogue or the scenery going forward into the game, as opposed to mere sims where other characters reside - that are only for us players to see and enjoy but have literally no bearing on the plot, as MC would never have access to those scenes.

Why does the avatar MC created not tell MC what has been going on?
Why does MC not dig through the game code he gained access to while working for the company that codes the whole game and figured out whatever is going on?

The fact NEss did not jump MC bones right in the club, but just blue balled him and threateend him to use his family as test subjects to janky sims is kind of strange - coupled with the fact she and her assistent talk shop with MC in a literal brothel - then we find out the girl MC banged or not in there is a sim - so what the game is going on?

It is a sim the shole club where Ness meets MC with the playful latex clad girls playing around? Is it a real club?
MC never has enything on at the time, so what actually did happen?

I've mostly been thinking about Ness and some of the reactions to her/the MC's situation. I think many of the people who played the game so far took everything Ness said at complete face value, which has strongly impacted their impressions of her, the story, and where it is heading. Now obviously there's not a lot of game out yet so there's still plenty of time for people to adjust expectations and having some surprises and twists in the story is fun. But I also don't want the audience to feel that the surprises/twists are unearned, arbitrary, or contrived. I don't think we'll be able to determine if I'm doing it right for another update or two but any early thoughts/comments would be appreciated.

 

[DigiDec]

This game is a very good fantasy of what the juggernaut Cyberpunk 2077 could become is more exciting ways to enter that game were to be developped and DLCs would be shipped out once every half year with thematically charged missions like the space fantasy MC is in in the beginnign or the Egyptian gods meet Norse gods team up fantasy in the very end of this game.

It has the barely comprehensible technology Blade runner had throughout the movies, with unexplained bilogy and/or electronics of the enhanced cyborgs or humans with cybernetic prosthetics or all the other strange and mildly bizarre apparitions in there - all those bullet points are pretty counter intuitive to what we see in this game so far - we only assume every time the girls put on their glowing glasses or the glowing ear piece - they are logging in the same game MC is develloping - but by the sheer fact MC is working with the hacker from the very first scene and that he even managed to create the avatar for his immagination - the girl who effectively floats and blows up the bar with the girl and the maniac who raped her in it - that is a mighty impactful scene.

MC is just a desk jockey so far - a geek with interesting bilogy with a knockout GF who understands when battles cannot be won. So far, in the real world, MC is not actually in the know about his actual work and we are seriously inb the dark about what MC does, what the sims actually do.

Most games out there show when MC logs in or out, when other characters log in or out.
This game just shows the sims where other characters than MC reside with very little to no context.

We as players do not know what are the plot relevant scenes - those where we might need to recount something of the dialogue or the scenery going forward into the game, as opposed to mere sims where other characters reside - that are only for us players to see and enjoy but have literally no bearing on the plot, as MC would never have access to those scenes.

Why does the avatar MC created not tell MC what has been going on?
Why does MC not dig through the game code he gained access to while working for the company that codes the whole game and figured out whatever is going on?

The fact NEss did not jump MC bones right in the club, but just blue balled him and threateend him to use his family as test subjects to janky sims is kind of strange - coupled with the fact she and her assistent talk shop with MC in a literal brothel - then we find out the girl MC banged or not in there is a sim - so what the game is going on?

It is a sim the shole club where Ness meets MC with the playful latex clad girls playing around? Is it a real club?
MC never has enything on at the time, so what actually did happen?

Please don't take this as a jab at you because it is absolutely not. Is English your second language? I ask because you have jumped to some wild conclusions about this game before and I'm wondering if there might be some communication barrier that is causing some of the apparent confusion. I'll (hopefully) clear things up behind a spoiler tag.

Spoiler

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