I've had enough of assholes who claim that no one is entitled to complain

[LantisGT]

That´s just how is, always and everywhere, so what´s there to complain anyway...
Keep it easy and focus on the good things (games) in life.

 

[Hajtand]

Everyone is welcome to complain but in terms of ranking matter these are the people that matter to the dev usually when it comes to complaints. People who bought the game > pirates > everyone else who hasn't played the game.

Needless to say, a pirate site is first and foremost not for or about the dev. Besides playing the games for free, it's also about community. As social creatures we like this sort of thing. Sharing thoughts feels good, having other people in agreement gives people a sense of belonging.

I think it matters for the dev(s). If they made a shitty game, using shitty practices, and among the first searches when they google the game's name. They find 100's or 1000's of people calling them out on their BS on a relative major platform. This is also what a lot of their new and old victims will see, should they hear about the game. Keeping quite what does that do? Ultimately it only makes things worse for everyone. New devs with a genuine effort, will have a harder time garnering followers, because of the distrust sown in the general community. While the shitty practices will become more commonplace for everyone else.

 

[AmazonessKing]

OP is completely right. People have way too fragile egos and can't build an opinion because they are afraid of offending someone.

 

[polywog]

 

[forbidden101v]

Needless to say, a pirate site is first and foremost not for or about the dev. Besides playing the games for free, it's also about community. As social creatures we like this sort of thing. Sharing thoughts feels good, having other people in agreement gives people a sense of belonging.

I think it matters for the dev(s). If they made a shitty game, using shitty practices, and among the first searches when they google the game's name. They find 100's or 1000's of people calling them out on their BS on a relative major platform. This is also what a lot of their new and old victims will see, should they hear about the game. Keeping quite what does that do? Ultimately it only makes things worse for everyone. New devs with a genuine effort, will have a harder time garnering followers, because of the distrust sown in the general community. While the shitty practices will become more commonplace for everyone else.

The question is if the dev really cares. Also what if the dev makes a great game? While I am a pirate I don't think I'm some sort of hero going around telling everyone how bad a game might be. A shitty game is forgivable provided the dev actually aims to improve rather than just pumping them out as fast as they can. As for shitty practices well theres not much you can do about that other than have no involvement with the person doing such or whatever they make. I'd say piracy is a necessary evil primarily because of drm's existence which often punishes actual customers (I will never forgive ubisoft and their shitty servers back then ) but if you think about it, people who started pirating content created the need for drm's existence. Just imagine, theres possibly a parallel universe where piracy doesn't exist and as a result drm for games isn't a thing.

 

[AmazonessKing]

people who started pirating content created the need for drm's existence.

"Piracy" was known as "sharing" in the past, because digital media have always been able to be copied. A copy shouldn't theft, because the original remains intact. It was because of this copying and sharing that DRM was born. "Piracy" is just the owner doing what he feels like with the product he buys. If that persons decides to share it, nothing should stop it, so there's no need for DRM and there never was.

 

[forbidden101v]

"Piracy" was known as "sharing" in the past, because digital media have always been able to be copied. A copy shouldn't theft, because the original remains intact. It was because of this copying and sharing that DRM was born. "Piracy" is just the owner doing what he feels like with the product he buys. If that persons decides to share it, nothing should stop it, so there's no need for DRM and there never was.

The problem with this is if piracy is done on a massive scale to the point production costs aren't covered for the software, theres no incentive for the creators to continue making more. No one wants to work for free unless they are volunteering for the sake of volunteering. I'd say theres no need for bad drm like online drm for single player games or drm that does checks using poorly configured servers that fail half the time. An indie dev might be able to say "yeah thats ok they can pirate my game" but a AAA game studio might be like "not sure if this is going to succeed and we have millions of dollars on the line. if it tanks well there goes our studio. The publishers want drm in it anyways because shareholders want a decent return on their investment." Also for the record before anyone mentions "well CDPR is cool with piracy and finds it faltering" not everyone is CDPR.

Digital media really doesn't work well with our traditional form of supply and demand because of infinite supply when no drm is involved but I'm not about to start saying EVERYTHING SHOULD BE FREE REEEEEE because it's unrealistic.

 

[Zachy]

wait is this a serious thread

 

[forbidden101v]

wait is this a serious thread

Possibly. I mean we aren't in off topic. Yet.

 

[AmazonessKing]

The problem with this is if piracy is done on a massive scale to the point production costs aren't covered for the software, theres no incentive for the creators to continue making more

That was a problem of the past. In fact, one of the biggest problems of the past was physical distribution that was very expensive. CDs reduced the cost greatly, but now that digital distribution exists, there's no excuse. People who want to buy your game and support you should also have the option to share the game they bought as much as they want, and today with funding sites like patreon, releasing games for free and getting support/donations monthly is way more profitable, on top of selling the game as an option.

Times change, you can't force someone to buy your game to play with a friend, you should let that person decide if they want to support you or not, and as you say, since the supply is infinity, calling piracy stealing is very silly.

 

[forbidden101v]

That was a problem of the past. In fact, one of the biggest problems of the past was physical distribution that was very expensive. CDs reduced the cost greatly, but now that digital distribution exists, there's no excuse. People who want to buy your game and support you should also have the option to share the game they bought as much as they want, and today with funding sites like patreon, releasing games for free and getting support/donations monthly is way more profitable, on top of selling the game as an option.

Times change, you can't force someone to buy your game to play with a friend, you should let that person decide if they want to support you or not, and as you say, since the supply is infinity, calling piracy stealing is very silly.

Not everyone can use a model like that and no one is forcing you to buy their game. People are simply throwing in protections so people can't take their content for free. Digital distribution has made things cheaper in terms of distribution but costs for developing AAA games have only gone up. Just because the supply is infinite doesn't mean the amount of time people can put into a game is infinite. If they aren't getting paid, why should they make games if they cannot live off what they do? I honestly don't think patreon, kickstarter, gofund me, or any other form of crowd funding service would be enough to finance all AAA games being developed today considering not every AAA game is a massive hit.



Hippity hoppity the games are their property.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[AmazonessKing]

but costs for developing AAA games have only gone up

That's their problem. Indie games prove again and again that you don't need ridiculous budgets to make good games. A team of 5 persons can make a game far FAR better than any AAA game developed in the last decade. Maybe AAA companies should actually learn from indies if they want to stop bleeding money.

Regardless I will never stop pirating games.

 

[icesun]

That's their problem. Indie games prove again and again that you don't need ridiculous budgets to make good games. A team of 5 persons can make a game far FAR better than any AAA game developed in the last decade. Maybe AAA companies should actually learn from indies if they want to stop bleeding money.

Regardless I will never stop pirating games.

You must be registered to see the links

---> developed by a single guy (the only thing he got others involved with was voice acting)

You must be registered to see the links

---> developed by a single guy

---> You don't even need a team of 5 people to do great stuff...

 

[AmazonessKing]

I was mostly thinking about Legend of Grimrock, but of course, you are right.

 

[forbidden101v]

You must be registered to see the links

---> developed by a single guy (the only thing he got others involved with was voice acting)

You must be registered to see the links

---> developed by a single guy

---> You don't even need a team of 5 people to do great stuff...

Still need a team to make games like rdr2.

 

[icesun]

Still need a team to make games like rdr2.

Haven't played that yet (neither RDR nor RDR2) so I'll just substitute Witcher 3 into your statement for me to be able to relate properly - and yes, sure, the bigger the scope the more manhours you need - but you don't need that scope to make a great game.

 

[AmazonessKing]

Consider that nowadays budget is wasted in things like voice acting, graphics, marketing and nothing relevant for the game to be good.

 

[polywog]

Digital media really doesn't work well with our traditional form of supply and demand because of infinite supply

Let's take a look at traditional copyright. It was created to protect writers, musicians, artist etc. from having their work stolen by big publishing companies that used your work for profit. You performed your song on stage, people payed you to listen... and then these criminals came along and started copying your stuff making a fortune selling it. But these laws have been perverted and twisted to protect the big publishers, and to allow them to monopolize these industries.

Supply and demand is not a one way street. If there is no demand, the value of your product goes down.
Traditional retail got turned on it head long ago. Back in the day a retailer like Sears (bankrupt and sold to a competitor) would buy a large quantity of a product and put it in it's annual catalog at a fixed price for that year. That worked for them when there was little to competition, people had no choice but to pay the catalog price.

Sam Walton (founder of Walmart) told them they could be making a lot more money if they weren't so rigid on their pricing, but they didn't listen to him. Sam started Walmart with the rollback pricing philosophy. Start selling at high prices and make profits, but keep lowering the price to attract new customers to buy. Rollback pricing makes it possible for more people to be able to buy. Those who have to have it now, pay full price when it comes out. Those who are willing to wait a while, can buy it for less than Sam paid for it. Yes I said, less than Sam paid. Roll back pricing goes all the way down to one cent.
You might be asking how can Walmart make money if they sell stuff for less than what they paid for it. It's the secret of Walmart's success, and it's what Made Sam the richest man in the world.
If you buy 10,000 units @ $1 each and you start selling them @ $4 each, you've already more than doubled your money when you've sold half the quantity in inventory. You could sell the remaining units for a penny and it would still be a profit.
Where Sears failed was being greedy, trying to make as much money as possible off each and every one.
If it's sitting on a shelf, it's not making money. If cash is sitting in your wallet, it's not making money.

You can't put a fixed value on a product, and say "this" is what it's worth. If you do and the public doesn't agree, you'll have a warehouse of shit that doesn't sell, taking up space. Are you going to pay $79 on steam for a game, when you can buy it at Walmart or Amazon for $20?

Price is determined by demand. If you make a billion pizzas, you're screwed, if you don't have customers standing there.

The Digital goods era is no different. It's not making you money if nobody is buying. If nobody knows you make a game, your game is worthless. Your billion copies of the game sitting on your server aren't moving, if nobody ever sees them, and advertising costs a fortune. Pirates are giving you advertising... it's not free, there's some cost associated, but the benefits far outweigh those costs. Millions of people see your product. This is advertising that you can't even get in a market that's monopolized by big publishing companies, pirating your game is the only way to be seen at all.

If you made "pizzas for the homeless" and gave them to homeless people, in addition to your regular "for profit pizza" business. People who buy your pizzas know that they are paying a little extra to pay for the cost to make those pizzas for the homeless, and they feel good about it. You're a hero, for giving back to the community, feeding the homeless.

The same goes for "games for the homeless" you make money from patreon, from your for profit customers, and those customers give a little extra because you're doing a good deed, giving back to the community, giving games to poor people who can't afford them. You get credit for being a hero, and it doesn't cost you anything. You don't have to buy the pizza ingredients, pay for the gas to run the ovens, or all the pizza topping.... the pirates are doing all the work.

If you're stuffing your face with free games, say "thank you" don't bite the hand that feeds you saying "I don't like anchovies on that game" go grab a game with no anchovies.

 

[Rhythm]

I mean, my opinion is that any criticism is worth reading. Having paid for it or not doesn't really change the validity of the criticism. If the dev cares about improving their game, why does it matter who gives the critique? If the pirate is asking the dev to put in certain content to cater for them, then sure I can see why that would get ignored or attacked, but criticism is only good...

 

[Jonboy80]

Consider that nowadays budget is wasted in things like voice acting, graphics, marketing and nothing relevant for the game to be good.

I swear, as time goes on, I think devs are allowing shittier and shittier VA quality into their games. So much of it sounds wooden and lifeless to the point that I often turn voices off if given the option. There's only so many times I can hear the same one liners before I lose all interest.

And now that devs are creating spoken dialogue for multiple languages, the download sizes are huge. Why we can't get the ability to choose what languages we want to download to this day is still baffling. I live in the US, I've only ever spoken English and a smattering of Spanish. I don't need to waste bandwidth downloading French, Chinese, Croatian, Afrikaans, Japanese, Mandarin, Spanish, Portuguese, German, Russian, Korean, Vietnamese, or god knows how many other language options that will NEVER be enabled just to play the game.