VN Ren'Py Jessica O'Neil's Hard News [v0.65] [stoperArt]

[Sum FΑggott]

so many entitled people on this forum

 

[Deleted member 946827]

For everyone that this question/fetish entails.. Is there anyone that is also interested in seeing Tommy nail Eve? Chances are it will be Jessica doing the deed, but this is how I view Eve being brought down a peg. Not a knock on Tommy or anything. From what has been presented thus far of Eve, you just get the idea she wouldn't be about him.

That aside, I enjoy seeing Jessica interact with all the characters. There's room for everyone in her life. It's how Mr. stoper intended it. If a decision has to be made later on, I'll go with the route that brought me the most fun.

 

[mma456]

For everyone that this question/fetish entails.. Is there anyone that is also interested in seeing Tommy nail Eve? Chances are it will be Jessica doing the deed, but this is how I view Eve being brought down a peg. Not a knock on Tommy or anything. From what has been presented thus far of Eve, you just get the idea she wouldn't be about him.

That aside, I enjoy seeing Jessica interact with all the characters. There's room for everyone in her life. It's how Mr. stoper intended it. If a decision has to be made later on, I'll go with the route that brought me the most fun.

Tommy and Eve would be very interesting ofcourse, since theres just this charm to the thought of banging the bitch who always takes advantage of you, so now its your turn to get rewarded for all your help.

 

[BestFapper1337]

Pretty nice visual stuff.
but this seems very slow.
Always seems to be hard to find good creators that put content and often updates out.
Sad i see this type of creator have more patreons than others that push more content :/

 

[xgrotesc]

Pretty nice visual stuff.
but this seems very slow.
Always seems to be hard to find good creators that put content and often updates out.
Sad i see this type of creator have more patreons than others that push more content :/

Really depends on what you're looking for. If it's amount of content that interests you, then I'll give you that and say that you have a point. However if quality is something that interests you, then your point becomes somewhat redundant.

There are very few creators that can match Stoper's visual quality and even fewer that can get to his level of storytelling. Quality takes time. It can be extremely frustrating, but that's reality.

 

[Bolero]

Sad i see this type of creator have more patreons than others that push more content :/

People appreciate quality over quantity, go figure, at least i know i do.
I would rather look at 100 renders done by stoper than at 1000 renders done by some average joes.

 

[ashitanojoe]

Pretty nice visual stuff.
but this seems very slow.
Always seems to be hard to find good creators that put content and often updates out.
Sad i see this type of creator have more patreons than others that push more content :/

Not true. Decent Monkey (fashion business) has 3 times more patrons than Stoper, because he offers a lot more content. Even when his dialogues are pretty basic. Still his renders are pretty good, I would say inferior to these, but not by far.

If stoper were faster, with slightly inferior renders (as DecentMonkey), he would have more patrons without a doubt.

 

[xgrotesc]

Not true. Decent Monkey (fashion business) has 3 times more patrons than Stoper, because he offers a lot more content. Even when his dialogues are pretty basic. Still his renders are pretty good, I would say inferior to these, but not by far.

If stoper were faster, with slightly inferior renders (as DecentMonkey), he would have more patrons without a doubt.

I hate playing the fanboy role, but here I feel like gotta do it nonetheless. They're not slightly inferior, the difference is actually quite big. You can see that DecentMonkey is miles away in several aspects, but the ones that are most visable are posing and facial expressions. He basicaly uses presets most of the time with small adjustments. That's why they always feel extremely exaggerated. Stoper's attention to detail in this aspect makes quite the difference and take it from someone who used to play around with Daz3d a few years ago, it takes a really fuckin' long time to get those right.

Another thing that also takes time is that Stoper also creates a lot of his own 3d assets. I believe he mostly uses ZBrush, but he might dabble in some other softwares I don't know. And trust me, you really need to know what you're doing to work with ZBrush and it's etremely time consuming. In DecentMonkey's case I once again believe he mostly just uses assets he buys and apply some morphs to make the changes.

The thing that makes DecentMonkey's work feel better is the post-work that he does. He's good at editing his renders in photoshop and that's way many people may think he's work in terms of visuals can be compared to developers like Stoper, Mortze, Phillygames, Kamo or beWilder, but to be honest he's still playing in a much lower league then any of these.

And last but not least, we have the quality of the story itself that you actually aknowledged. I understand that for a lot of people DecentMonkey's type of story might be more interesting. It's a straightforward corruption game and many people dig that. But you have to admit that it really doesn't have much depth. It's quite easy to write those kind of scenarios. On the other hand Jessica's plot is much more complicated and the characters are way more fleshed out. Fashion Business is a pure "parody" and almost every scene feels way too far fetched to be any close to a real scenario, while in JOHN's there's a much bigger sense of reality and the characaters are way more humanized. And that also takes a lot of time to get right.

 

[xgrotesc]

That's a matter of how you use the terms. I would use the term 'big' for something twice as good than the other and that isn't the case here. By the way, you are reinforcing my point even more: not necessarily the higher quality games, like this one, get more patrons.

In my opinion, in matter of renders:

DecentMonkey: 7/10

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Stoper: 7.7/10

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And a 9.8/10 would be

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There's actually a significantly higher difference between the best renders out there and Stoper, than Stoper and Decent Monkey. My point is that if you use the term 'big' between Stoper and Decent Monkey, then you should use the term 'enormous' between the best and Stoper. And I think that would not be pleasant, I love Stoper's work.

Obviously, there are better artists then Stoper out there. I'm not sure if the example you posted in that last picture is a Daz3d work, but even if it isn't we can take

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as an example. Some of his works can be quite photolike. The point I was trying to make on that quote was more concerned regarding developers in this type of games/VN's. Amoung those you can't get much better then Stoper and the ones I mentioned, but there are more obviously. For instance I didn't mention Lesson of Passion, NLT Media, LewdLab or Dr. PinkCake, just to name a few more, but I wasn't also trying to list all developers who have great visual renders.

Also, I wasn't trying to argue against your point of developers with higher quality getting more patrons. If it did come across like that I apologize. I'm also not trying to shame DecentMonkey's work or saying that he's a poor artist, because he's not. He's way above avarage in terms of image quality from most of 3d games we can find on this site, but I still stand by my statement when I said there's still a big difference between his work and Stoper, or most of the other names I mentioned.

You actually found an excellent example of one good render in most aspects from DecentMonkey's, but if I go through Fashion Business I can find hundreds of examples of renders with weird poses and weird expressions. In JOHN and in most of the games of the developers I mentioned I actually struggle to find one render that has these issues. Also, I used to play Fashion Business since it's very beggining, even in the old engine he had, before he switched to Renpy, but eventually I just got bored with the plot. I'll be honest, I think in terms of storytelling it's extremely poor, but that is just my single opinion. Others can beg to differ, but has someone who has some experience in writing I can say for sure that for me that kind of script it's not very hard to write. On the other hand I have to give credit to Stoper, because his script is actually pretty good. I'll reckon it has a few flaws in terms of flow and pacing, but I don't expect him to achieve a Pablo Neruda level of writing. For an adult VN I however think it's high quality. If I were to give him any kind of advise would be to maybe drop the whole detailing of each and every interaction Jessica has on any given day, because in the end it's the thing that I feel that's making it harder for him and in the long run can also be one of the reasons the story can get a bit more unrealistic. I'd go for an approach more like EvaKiss latest game, Our Red String, where the story also goes day-by-day, but it only focuses on the important interactions that each of the two main characters has any given day and the rest of the day just gets skipped. But then again, that's just my opinion and he might feel that taking that approach can go against the story he's trying to tell.

Anyway, I feel like I rambled now for a bit and kind of went on a tangent, but with my overall previous post I just wanted to kind of make a point that quality usually comes at the cost of time. It can be quite frustrating, but I appreciate that and the end result for me is a lot more satisfying. Most people usually prefer quantity over quality and that's fine, I can accept and respect that. But there are also people like me who actually prefer quality over quantity and do understand that in this particular case it's nearly impossible to achive the same results in the same timeframe of other developers. And I think it's important that people do realize that difference and understand why it is unfair to be demanding the same results from Stoper when comparing to someone like DecentMonkey.

 

[SubtleHustle]

People appreciate quality over quantity, go figure, at least i know i do.
I would rather look at 100 renders done by stoper than at 1000 renders done by some average joes.

I might rather bang two fives instead of a "Ten."

But Stoper's quality goes to eleven.

 

[cold_arctus]

Sad i see this type of creator have more patreons than others that push more content :/

It is indeed a shame that people prefer low-average/average renders (unpostworked) and loli games over quality and milfs.

 

[BUsybat]

There is nothing to shame about. Kind of comparing apple to oranges.
Perception of good games are different for every body.

Nothing wrong with ppl who like MILF as compared to those who like Loli or ppl who like harem/incest as compared to those who like NTR

What is deem as average may be different for others.

 

[stoper]

...you should use the term 'enormous' between the best and Stoper. And I think that would not be pleasant, I love Stoper's work.

There IS enormous difference between my work and the best out there. Just saying.

 

[asplly97]

First of all rendering CGs take time. Game devs need to render hundreds of CGs per update per cycle basis. Only focusing alone on CGs to make them look better might end up with 1-2 updates per year. It's a necessary compromise so that story progress with regular updates.

For example, look at devs of ** 2077 they announced it back 2012, almost 8 years ago and they are pushing the graphical fidelity of games but ended up taking so much time. But then again, don't want something like Ubisoft does little to no changes and new game awaits for you.

so in my book whatever this devs do, i certainly appreciate it.

 

[NextQuestion]

First of all rendering CGs take time. Game devs need to render hundreds of CGs per update per cycle basis. Only focusing alone on CGs to make them look better might end up with 1-2 updates per year. It's a necessary compromise so that story progress with regular updates.

For example, look at devs of ** 2077 they announced it back 2012, almost 8 years ago and they are pushing the graphical fidelity of games but ended up taking so much time. But then again, don't want something like Ubisoft does little to no changes and new game awaits for you.

so in my book whatever this devs do, i certainly appreciate it.

Stop comparing VN games to AAA game titles. If you have no idea about game development or 3D rendering just stop. People overestimate how much work takes into creating these good looking VN renders (talking about render quality here) with programs like Daz3D and 99% of the assets that come from the internet. Most of them do not create any skin textures, character models, scenes, interiors. Creating photorealistic character yourself takes a lot of time. These days with powerful hardware, full assets, programs like Daz3D, denoising it takes no time to produce good looking images.

Now look at these two images and tell me how long do you think it took to create something like this and how long to render on a 5 year old gtx 980ti?

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[cold_arctus]

Now look at these two images and tell me how long do you think it took to create something like this and how long to render on a 5 year old gtx 980ti?

The skin texture/skin tone is very good on both of your renders even better than to big buck earning VNs and their lifeless plastic dolls (looking at you WVN ).

Though, the skin texture on the chest on the first image is not perfect (little holes/notches like acne scars are visible) and a tiny, tiny bit of blue veins are missing too (not sure if possible to add).

However, from your two renders alone we can see that you put a lot of work into them (light, shades, filters, etc.) more then some devs do.

 

[iodio]

These days with powerful hardware, full assets, programs like Daz3D, denoising it takes no time to produce good looking images.

Now look at these two images and tell me how long do you think it took to create something like this and how long to render on a 5 year old gtx 980ti?

I do not agree, it takes time to produce good looking images - even with all the tricks in the world (denoising, photoshop post-prod, and so on). Or better said, it depends on your definition of "good looking images".

The first example you posted is a stretch - rendering figures only, without an environment, is sure faster, but it is of limited use in a VN like JOHN.
The second example is more on target. Don't take me wrong, I think it is an awesome render. But to produce a "good looking image" or at least a better looking one, it takes more time than this. i.e.: to correctly pose hair, to correctly pose the feet, to add a natural looking landscape outside the window, to compose a more lively (and personalized) environment around the character --- this all take time!

Details matter, and details take time.

In my opinion, stoper uses time to add details (and there is also the storytelling side to consider, but it is a different aspect), while other devs do not use the same level of attention to details.

 

[Maviarab]

Stop comparing VN games to AAA game titles. If you have no idea about game development or 3D rendering just stop. People overestimate how much work takes into creating these good looking VN renders (talking about render quality here) with programs like Daz3D and 99% of the assets that come from the internet. Most of them do not create any skin textures, character models, scenes, interiors. Creating photorealistic character yourself takes a lot of time. These days with powerful hardware, full assets, programs like Daz3D, denoising it takes no time to produce good looking images.

Now look at these two images and tell me how long do you think it took to create something like this and how long to render on a 5 year old gtx 980ti?

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Why is her hair sticking up? Guess didn't take the time to sort that out huh? Went for the fingers in the electrical socket look?

There's the difference. As for the first image...no background...10 mins max. Very little RAM used in that image and imagine you also rendered both at no higher than 1080. Lighting is also awful too and 50 shades of wrong. So obviously apparent to anyone with a good eye.

Want to do a comparison...want to try to knock the Dev with 'I can do it just as well'....at least do a fair comparison. Your 980ti is utter crap for rendering, and it shows in the quality of your renders, sorry

 

[Thickgravy49]

These days with powerful hardware, full assets, programs like Daz3D, denoising it takes no time to produce good looking images.

What absolute rubbish.

It doesn't matter what set-up you've got, producing quality like JOHN takes LOADS of time and effort.
There's no comparison between what you've posted and Stoper's work.

Look at the composition of the scenes in JOHN and the fine-details:-
The combination of different sets and use of shaders to make new environments.
The use and placement of props. I've not seen any other dev that does this anywhere near as well.
The choice of outfits and use of d-force. There's no clipping, or poke-through in this dev's renders.
The posing of the characters always looks natural, rather than awkward.
The lighting. Stoper gets it on-point, every single render. That isn't easy, at all, imo.

Sorry, but you're talking a complete load of crap, imo.

Where's your game with the stunning art? I'd like to see it.

 

[armion82]

Pretty nice visual stuff.
but this seems very slow.
Always seems to be hard to find good creators that put content and often updates out.
Sad i see this type of creator have more patreons than others that push more content :/

You can't be more wrong.Stoper is hardly one of the creators that have more patrons.Unless you think more than 400 patrons is a lot.You should aim at least for someone with 1000+ patrons.