Stoper in the future are you considering expanding your team by adding more artists or would rather prefer to work alone?
- Thread starter stoper
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- Jan 31, 2020
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I'm down with more lesbian partners for our main but at some point I'd like to see one of them bust out the strap-on.
- Nov 21, 2018
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You see, this is exactly the point which I'm not prepared to assume. I'm ready to accept it, if I find the arguments compelling, which I haven't yet, but I'm not ready to assume it.
It's obvious that the classification of bisexual must include gradation. There must be room for varying levels of heterosexual and homosexual activity and attraction within the bisexual classification. But it's less obvious whether or not the classifications of heterosexual and homosexual must exclude any and all activity of the opposite sort. In other words, I'm saying that there's a question as to whether or not every person who claims to be one or the other must be exclusively so, in order for us to take the claim seriously. You may not acknowledge the question, but other people do. Until all of those people accept you as the final arbiter on this point, the question persists.
Perhaps one reason why I'm more willing than you are to consider this as an open question is that I have a longer historical view of the issue. I don't know that this is true, but it may be. Let me point out, for example, that the use of the term "lesbian" to describe a woman who is exclusively homosexual is something which has only come about in the last forty years. As recently as the 1970s, the term lesbian was applied to any and all homosexual conduct between women, whether or not those women also had heterosexual interests. A woman who had a husband and regularly engaged in straight sex might still be referred to as a lesbian, so long as she engaged in any amount of homosexual conduct. Just like there was a time when men who were almost exclusively straight would still be described as homosexuals, if they had any homosexual involvement.
These terms have been in flux, and have seen subjective application, ever since they came into existence. It might be that the term "lesbian" has had a rigid definition for you and all of your acquaintances for all of your life, but I assure you that, in other times, and even for other people in this time, it's been less rigidly defined.
Invalidate lesbianism? What exactly does that mean?
I guess I'll proceed on the assumption that you mean "invalidate the concept that some women are exclusively homosexual," until you explain it differently.
Sure, I can imagine that some people, who are offended by the concept of exclusive homosexuality, might use something like a non-exclusively homosexual lesbian as a basis for a verbal attack on the idea. But the existence of a non-exclusively homosexual lesbian doesn't invalidate the concept of exclusive homosexuality, anymore than those people's verbal attacks invalidate anything at all. So I don't see this argument as a compelling reason to reject the validity of a claim to non-exclusive lesbianism, particularly given the historical context of the word.
So you say. They say differently. And why should you be allowed to decide for them?
I'll say it for the third time in this thread (or maybe the fourth?). I'm in favor of terms having clear and concise definitions. And I'm in favor of uniform applications of definitions. But most terms actually have multiple definitions, or have ambiguity in their definitions. And I'm not in favor of arbitrary decrees, deciding that this one definition must be accepted and all others rejected. I won't have my use of language dictated to me or decided by fiat.
The concept of "identity cred" is a problem, in and of itself. But that's not what we were discussing, so I'll leave that one alone for now.
- Sep 1, 2017
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I'm not going to wade into the "definition of lesbianism" debate going on since I would probably just embarrass myself by looking way out of my depth. Instead I will simply state that I hope that Shani and/or Blake avoids having sex with men in the future. In my opinion, Jessica needs to have at least one viable lesbian partner out there. I am a Blake fangirl for sure, but right now she does not have a lot of content aside from kissing (please give Blake some love and attention, stoper). And after that pool scene, I can see Shani growing on me as well.
I also unfortunately don't see Heather leaving Christian any time soon and nothing has developed with Eve. So right now only the only possibly available partners for a lesbian Jessica are Blake and now Shani. I just think that having a girl that is interested solely in Jessica/women would be a more interesting character to have in the story and would make the lesbian path more rewarding (PLEASE BE BLAKE lol).
I also unfortunately don't see Heather leaving Christian any time soon and nothing has developed with Eve. So right now only the only possibly available partners for a lesbian Jessica are Blake and now Shani. I just think that having a girl that is interested solely in Jessica/women would be a more interesting character to have in the story and would make the lesbian path more rewarding (PLEASE BE BLAKE lol).
- Nov 21, 2018
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I get people wanting Jessica to have a strictly lesbian path. And I get people wanting specific characters, such as Shani or Blake or whomever, to be strictly lesbian characters. And I don't see any problem with that. What I don't understand is why anyone would object to strictly lesbiain paths, or object to straight or bisexual paths for any character, so long as those were separate paths in the game. I get why you would object if there was no lesbian path in the game, but I don't get why you would object to straight or bisexual content for those characters if your game choices meant that you weren't going to see it.
- Apr 25, 2020
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Characters have to get their personality. It's ok to shape Jessica in the way you want (you control her), but the other characters need to have consistency. If not, we can make Conner gay too no ?
- Dec 2, 2018
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Nah, that's plain stupid, imagine if someone did the opposite and complained about no straight path in a lesbian game. People just need to respect whatever the author decides and deal with it, if you don't like it, then you can ignore it instead of complaining like a child.
- Dec 13, 2018
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For me, I think it's about doing something different. So many VNs and adult games have these easily manipulated "lesbian"characters who say they're strictly lesbian and haven't ever wanted to touch a dick, or that they're in love with one of the female characters the MC is also interested in, then they end up getting "corrupted" either by the MC (typically male) or by the female character close to both of them who persuades her to try the MC's dick and then all of a sudden this once purely lesbian character is now craving dick.
It's a fantasy wish fulfillment of straight men to be able to "turn" a lesbian, and whilst there are games where this happens that I've enjoyed playing, very rarely do you see a lesbian character who stays lesbian throughout and the MC never has any chance of doing anything with them, and this game has an opportunity to do just that. It also adds more variety to the different paths if there are certain characters you can't get on them. On the lesbian path, Jessica doesn't do anything with virtually all male characters (Conner being an occasional exception for obvious reasons), but will do things with women, so why not keep these women, or some of them, on this path to give it more individuality? It gives each path a level of exclusivity in its content that adds a level of replayability because players can go back, try a different path, and get content with characters they couldn't get on another path.
Exactly. Enough games are out there where the MC or other characters "shape" another character, turning lesbians straight or making a once prudish Mom finger fuck her own daughter, so let's have some characters who are already formed in their sexual preferences/views, like Shani, and leave them as is.
- Dec 2, 2018
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Regarding consistency, thing is stoper himself has not developed Shani in a concrete way and left her open, so he can experiment with her as time goes and decide which path he wants to take her in.
- Dec 13, 2018
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Sure they can, but keeping Shani strictly lesbian gives that path and the players on that path some uniqueness and exclusivity as this is a character that you can only get on this path and not on the straight/bi/sharing paths.
- Nov 21, 2018
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Sure. Why not make Connor turn gay, or swing bisexual? If it's a separate path, some people will play it, and some people won't. It all comes down to what the developer/writer wants to do or is willing to do. Some creators have a clearly defined story in mind from the beginning, and will stick to it, no matter what the player base wants, and that's a good thing. Some creators allow feedback from the players to direct how they make their game, and that's also a good thing. It comes down to the individual creator.
As for characters needing to have consistency, that's important in a storyline, but separate paths are separate storylines, up to a point. So differences in a character between separate paths are not necessarily internally inconsistent.
It's not "plain stupid" at all. People who are only interested in lesbian sex are going to ask for a strictly lesbian path. There's no surprise there.
As for someone complaining about no straight path in a lesbian game, that's almost certain to happen. There's almost always going to be someone complaining about something, no matter what you do.
Regarding people just needing to accept what the author does and deal with it, that depends on what you mean. If you mean that, regardless of player feedback, it's ultimately the creator's choice, then I agree entirely, as I've already made clear more than once in this thread. If you mean that people should just keep their feedback to themselves, then hell no.
- Dec 2, 2018
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That's the word ain't it, FEEDBACK, most of the time you aren't going to see any feedback, it's just straight out complaining and forcing your views and what you want rather than wanting to share your perspective properly and then backing off if your refused, there are a lot of groups I see here that are just insufferable especially the incest ones.
- Nov 21, 2018
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I suppose that it's a wish fulfilling fantasy for some straight men to turn a lesbian, just like it's a fantasy for some straight men to have their girl stolen from them. I've never understood either of those fantasies on an imaginative level, but I recognize that they exist and can try to understand them on a cognitive level. But I don't think that this creator, or any other, should therefore be obligated to "correct" the situation by limiting his or her storytelling methods. I really don't think that the situation needs to be corrected at all.
I'm in favor of the people who want strictly lesbian content and stories getting what they want, just like I'm in favor of people who want gay content getting it. Gay content isn't my thing, just like a strictly lesbian path isn't my thing, but I'm still in favor of other people getting what they want. But I don't think that anyone else has to give up what they want in order for that to happen.
Some developers are gay or lesbian, and will want to produce strictly gay or lesbian content. Some developers will think the way you do about this, and will include strictly lesbian characters in games which include straight paths. And some developers will make characters who are strictly lesbian in one path, but will engage in bisexual activity in another path. Whatever the creator wants to do, let him or her do it. But make your likes and dislikes known, by all means. We (the players) have a right to give feedback, but not to demand that it be adopted.
Maybe that will happen in this game, but I think that you're putting your hope in a shaky boat. As I've already pointed out, the narration in the threesome path for the swimming pool scene hints at possible bisexual content for Shani in the future. I may be misreading the foreshadowing, but I think that you're campaigning for a strictly lesbian path for her when the writer has already decided on diverging paths for her.
- Dec 2, 2018
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Ngl i was very confused when that scene in the pool happened, i thought you will only get shani if you ignore the mayor and trigger the path where you decide to meet just with her. So i guess stoper shouldn't have portrayed her as someone who was leading to be an lesbian li and then leaving the doors open later, in which case all of this would've been avoided. Then again i also remember stoper mentioning how he doesn't like to lock paths behind character points, so theres that too.
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- Jun 5, 2017
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Oh, I'm not deciding for them. They can call themselves "lesbian" like those lame ass dick-taking porn stars do. I'm just saying that the community is going to laugh off the notion that they are if they ever do admit to willingly taking dick after they've assumed the identity.
It's one thing to have men in your history. It's another to come out, call yourself lesbian and in the next breath say you want the occasional dick. Especially since there's a lot of lesbian pain out there involving dating "lesbians" who turn out to be bisexual.
So what? The female orgasm used to be called "hysteria". Big deal. The term "bisexual" now exists. That's what you now call a woman who likes the emotional safety of a relationship with another woman but still craves dick from time to time.
I know a lot of you dudes like the notion of "conquering" lesbians (which is why this bullshit is so suspicious), but this duplicitous semantics game is tiresome and transparent.
- Jun 5, 2017
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Because, while videogame agency for player characters is a must, we like being able to know the NPC's. I'll take a recent-ish example.
In A Wife and Mother, there was this bonus content, which you didn't have to see depending on your choices, that showed her son (one of the primary incest interests) collaborating with her blackmailers. Fans of the mother-son pairing were immediately pissed because the mere existence of that path meant that the character they liked was turned into a gigantic piece of shit, even if you could totally avoid it. The uproar was significant enough that the creator removed the scene.
Now, if I wanted my Jessica to date this character who says she is lesbian, I don't want the existence of any path that would imply she really isn't, because it implies that my Jessica has been duped even in this path. If the character is bi, or unsure of herself yet, then her having a boyfriend or whatever isn't a big deal. But nobody likes a bait and switch.
- Jun 5, 2017
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You and me both, though there is no real implication that Blake is lesbian other than she didn't like that douchebag hanging around here. But I'll take a girl who comes around to it. Blake is the sweetest!
- Nov 21, 2018
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Fortunately for everyone, including people who hold to the community, the community doesn't choose for the individual.
Sometimes you call her a lesbian who occasionally likes cock. Well, you don't, but other people do.
You continue to try to speak for me, and to read meanings into my statements which aren't there. You say that my argument is transparent, but I say that the "transparency" lies in your false assumptions. I would say that your assumptions are also growing tiresome and transparent.
You imply that my posts are duplicitous, and are just a semantics game. But I say that there's nothing duplicitous in them, and I consider the issue to be more than just semantics or a game.
I also say that your posts are an attempt to dictate to me and other people what language we can use and how we can use it, and I'm not inclined to go along with it.
Well, that was that developer's choice. If I had been developing the game, I would have just urged the players who didn't like it to avoid it and think of it as an alternate version of events, and not necessarily canon.
But I understand that people become emotionally invested in stories, and in the characters. And so they should. That's a mark of good storytelling and characters with depth. And I can sympathize with the people who were upset. But I think that creators should ideally stick to their vision for a story, whatever that may be. But hey, some creators are more concerned with the satisfaction of the audience, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, either. Ultimately, I think it should be up to the creator to fix their own priorities.
As I said to Holy Bacchus, if my reading of the author's foreshadowing in the threesome scene is correct (And it may well be incorrect. I fully acknowledge that.), then I think that you're in for a disappointment.
Maybe my long standing interest in science fiction and fantasy writing has prepared my mind to think in terms of alternate realities, but I've always been able to regard differing versions of a character's story as being equally valid. I think that's a good ability to cultivate, as it helps to alleviate disappointment with plot twists which we didn't anticipate and don't enjoy.
I honestly don't care whether Shani stays strictly lesbian or gets fucked by a guy in the story, apart from an interest in seeing the character model engaged in hetero sex. If I was wrong in my reading of the foreshadowing, and the path I'm expecting doesn't materialize, that's okay with me.
This update didn't catch me, I didn't want to do the scene with the mayor and I was really excited for the scene with Shani, but I got discouraged when I realized that there was nothing to be done without Connor, so I ended up skipping this scene too. I hope that in the next update there will be more lesbian scenes with no obligation for men to participate in them.