VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.1 Part I] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[Ianuda]

I don't want to appear desperate, but I'm always honest, and I tend to think in the extremes - either good or bad.

When I played through the entire available content (chapters 0.1-0.3), my interest was only rising. The ending was legitimately a high point for me. You have cute Katsumi, you have cute Kiyomi's dungeon, you have the pegging mistress, you have Veronica the doctor with pain and freckles... I would also like to see more of Guards Patricia and Samantha, incredible boots. And of course, the sister co-protagonist can be submissive and evil, I'm intrigued as to what can be done with her (and her red outfit is insane). The only part where I legitimately was dissatisfied was with Junko because pet play is a bit cringe (for me). There's also Chanel.

What is missing from my feedback is all those who did not interact with the male MC directly - Alessandra, Cassandra, etc. I can't deal with it, I just don't agree with controlling multiple characters. Juliette is memorable, however.

But can someone explain to me about this talk of 0.8? Is it available to Patrons or something? Or a purely internal build, and the aim is to release in full?

 

[Kiliana]

If I feel this with the 4th also ( worse than 3rd worse than first 2), I'll stop for sure because it means I can't sustain.

My reason for posting what I said, which by the way was my first post on these forums after lurking in the shadows for more than a year, was showing my appreciation for your great work and encouraging you to continue this project to the end.

I was also trying to provide constructive feedback by comparing your first two releases against the third one, hoping it would assist you in keeping the content quality at its highest level.

I had no intention of disheartening you and I am sorry if my post had an adverse effect. I hope you decide to keep this game going. It is truly a great one and it would be heartbreaking to see it getting abandoned after such a promising start.

 

[TessSadist]

My reason for posting what I said, which by the way was my first post on these forums after lurking in the shadows for more than a year, was showing my appreciation for your great work and encouraging you to continue this project to the end.

I was also trying to provide constructive feedback by comparing your first two releases against the third one, hoping it would assist you in keeping the content quality at its highest level.

I had no intention of disheartening you and I am sorry if my post had an adverse effect. I hope you decide to keep this game going. It is truly a great one and it would be heartbreaking to see it getting abandoned after such a promising start.

I don't want you to feed bad about it, it's not a specific thing but rather a compounding of things at once. It's actually more of an assist to me with specifics versus generalizations, as that makes it ten times worse with trying to figure out why. It's not a big deal, but what I meant is that if I felt 0.4 was a big downgrade in my own eyes, that would likely tell me it's time to consider doing something else. I knew there would also be some challenge with two protagonists, but the game would not exist without Olivia, as that is the part of the game most for me. I mean, it makes sense as it's kind of myself in a way. Maybe more femdom devs are subs and love 100% sub decisions/branches, but I am the complete opposite and even a male dom path was not enough for me, I needed a female dom choice path to enjoy writing the game at all. I don't know, maybe in the end more submissively minded people can do this kind of game better.

Two separate people took this post and another one after yours (about multiple protagonists) and showed them to me. I'm also getting shown detailed financial metrics over months/years about which femdom games (the top 40 femdom games on Graphtreon) do well financially and which do not, and why with very detailed specifics about style, plot, fetishes, etc. The basic crux behind all of that is I am being pressured by a few around me that want me to move to my second game idea and their primary argument is that femdom games of this style (you can see others like ED as another example) will never do well because of the nature of the femdom audience and what they actually pay for... (when you look at the very successful ones with femdom the style is completely different) I am getting relentlessly pounded with the idea recently that this kind of audience just doesn't pay for a certain style of content versus another audience that does, etc. I believe I have 175 Patrons which sounds ok to me, but they are also showing me how many Patrons even objectively crappy games more like my second idea are getting month after month.

It is mostly well meaning from people that feel I can make a lot more doing another game, but that's not the whole story. I am not caving to this pressure as I basically try and do whatever I want in life, but it has made it less fun for me. But I don't want people fearing I would stop anything due to outside factors -- only I would make that decision. The only fact they have showed me so far that does make me feel down sometimes is seeing how much I am actually making per hour of work on the game. But as long as it's fun, that hasn't been a huge deal. But I at least need the help of my artist now here and there, I really rely on her with little things now to keep my primary business ok with life/time balance.

But I don't want people to worry about the game that way, I have nothing planned at all negatively in that regard. But I can't lie and say I feel the exact same way as I did during 0.3 (my favorite time making the game was during 0.3) with 0.4 right now. But it's not the game itself as the reason why, it's the constant outside voices telling me I'm turning down a better thing and that this audience talks the most and gives the least kind of thing, etc. (0.4 is getting kind of close, did an update on public Patreon post)

Anyway, sorry for the rant/long post. I feel better now, lol.

 

[Z - Reborn]

I thought Olivia was a breath of fresh air and the best part of the game personally.

 

[gregers]

It is mostly well meaning from people that feel I can make a lot more doing another game, but that's not the whole story. I am not caving to this pressure as I basically try and do whatever I want in life, but it has made it less fun for me.

Without knowing your situation or your friends, from your description here I'd suggest telling them to go piss up a rope. Their analyses of the economic aspects may be correct: There are definitely porn games on Patreon doing better than this one by appealing to a wider audience and pointing that out to you once in your best interest is fair enough, I guess. But relentlessly trying to "pressure" or "pound" you into making something else than the game you want to make—ruining your own enjoyment of your work—is an arsehole move.

 

[Frosty2000]

I don't want you to feed bad about it, it's not a specific thing but rather a compounding of things at once. It's actually more of an assist to me with specifics versus generalizations, as that makes it ten times worse with trying to figure out why. It's not a big deal, but what I meant is that if I felt 0.4 was a big downgrade in my own eyes, that would likely tell me it's time to consider doing something else. I knew there would also be some challenge with two protagonists, but the game would not exist without Olivia, as that is the part of the game most for me. I mean, it makes sense as it's kind of myself in a way. Maybe more femdom devs are subs and love 100% sub decisions/branches, but I am the complete opposite and even a male dom path was not enough for me, I needed a female dom choice path to enjoy writing the game at all. I don't know, maybe in the end more submissively minded people can do this kind of game better.

Two separate people took this post and another one after yours (about multiple protagonists) and showed them to me. I'm also getting shown detailed financial metrics over months/years about which femdom games (the top 40 femdom games on Graphtreon) do well financially and which do not, and why with very detailed specifics about style, plot, fetishes, etc. The basic crux behind all of that is I am being pressured by a few around me that want me to move to my second game idea and their primary argument is that femdom games of this style (you can see others like ED as another example) will never do well because of the nature of the femdom audience and what they actually pay for... (when you look at the very successful ones with femdom the style is completely different) I am getting relentlessly pounded with the idea recently that this kind of audience just doesn't pay for a certain style of content versus another audience that does, etc. I believe I have 175 Patrons which sounds ok to me, but they are also showing me how many Patrons even objectively crappy games more like my second idea are getting month after month.

It is mostly well meaning from people that feel I can make a lot more doing another game, but that's not the whole story. I am not caving to this pressure as I basically try and do whatever I want in life, but it has made it less fun for me. But I don't want people fearing I would stop anything due to outside factors -- only I would make that decision. The only fact they have showed me so far that does make me feel down sometimes is seeing how much I am actually making per hour of work on the game. But as long as it's fun, that hasn't been a huge deal. But I at least need the help of my artist now here and there, I really rely on her with little things now to keep my primary business ok with life/time balance.

But I don't want people to worry about the game that way, I have nothing planned at all negatively in that regard. But I can't lie and say I feel the exact same way as I did during 0.3 (my favorite time making the game was during 0.3) with 0.4 right now. But it's not the game itself as the reason why, it's the constant outside voices telling me I'm turning down a better thing and that this audience talks the most and gives the least kind of thing, etc. (0.4 is getting kind of close, did an update on public Patreon post)

Anyway, sorry for the rant/long post. I feel better now, lol.

When I look at games doing better than yours than the thing they usually have in common is that they are done by people, who are way longer around than you. For the time you are doing it, your Patreon money looks quite good to me. Admittedly helped by some super Patreons, who probably won't be around forever though.
Generally I think you are on the right track to see this as a hobby first, and not your main job. If it will become more it will just happen naturally I think, because you simply like doing it and your Patreon reaches adequate levels. Having some more people help work on your game(s) is surely also always an option to make things smoother.

Concerning the female MC from my male femdom lover view, I enjoy playing her as a dominant woman. Not sure how representive I am, but for me having the dynamic of a woman in control of a man is the exciting thing and not general submission and dominance unrelated to gender.
Also wouldn't mind a femdom game where the dominant female char is the clear main protagonist. Who knows that option might be even on the table for this game. Still would always like a male side kick in game I could self insert in. But yeah no idea if this would make you more money, but personally I would always say what you said before: Just do what you really like doing.

 

[Leo Humilis]

I don't want you to feed bad about it, it's not a specific thing but rather a compounding of things at once. It's actually more of an assist to me with specifics versus generalizations, as that makes it ten times worse with trying to figure out why. It's not a big deal, but what I meant is that if I felt 0.4 was a big downgrade in my own eyes, that would likely tell me it's time to consider doing something else. I knew there would also be some challenge with two protagonists, but the game would not exist without Olivia, as that is the part of the game most for me. I mean, it makes sense as it's kind of myself in a way. Maybe more femdom devs are subs and love 100% sub decisions/branches, but I am the complete opposite and even a male dom path was not enough for me, I needed a female dom choice path to enjoy writing the game at all. I don't know, maybe in the end more submissively minded people can do this kind of game better.

Two separate people took this post and another one after yours (about multiple protagonists) and showed them to me. I'm also getting shown detailed financial metrics over months/years about which femdom games (the top 40 femdom games on Graphtreon) do well financially and which do not, and why with very detailed specifics about style, plot, fetishes, etc. The basic crux behind all of that is I am being pressured by a few around me that want me to move to my second game idea and their primary argument is that femdom games of this style (you can see others like ED as another example) will never do well because of the nature of the femdom audience and what they actually pay for... (when you look at the very successful ones with femdom the style is completely different) I am getting relentlessly pounded with the idea recently that this kind of audience just doesn't pay for a certain style of content versus another audience that does, etc. I believe I have 175 Patrons which sounds ok to me, but they are also showing me how many Patrons even objectively crappy games more like my second idea are getting month after month.

It is mostly well meaning from people that feel I can make a lot more doing another game, but that's not the whole story. I am not caving to this pressure as I basically try and do whatever I want in life, but it has made it less fun for me. But I don't want people fearing I would stop anything due to outside factors -- only I would make that decision. The only fact they have showed me so far that does make me feel down sometimes is seeing how much I am actually making per hour of work on the game. But as long as it's fun, that hasn't been a huge deal. But I at least need the help of my artist now here and there, I really rely on her with little things now to keep my primary business ok with life/time balance.

But I don't want people to worry about the game that way, I have nothing planned at all negatively in that regard. But I can't lie and say I feel the exact same way as I did during 0.3 (my favorite time making the game was during 0.3) with 0.4 right now. But it's not the game itself as the reason why, it's the constant outside voices telling me I'm turning down a better thing and that this audience talks the most and gives the least kind of thing, etc. (0.4 is getting kind of close, did an update on public Patreon post)

Anyway, sorry for the rant/long post. I feel better now, lol.

It saddens me that you feel this way. As far as I am concerned, you are one of the best game devs out there! Your game is a true work of art and in art it is much more important to follow your inspiration than economical considerations. Please do no listen to those who are telling you otherwise.

P.S. I personally love playing Olivia! I do not tend to self-insert or identify myself with the MC, so playing a dominant woman who does things to subby guys is a lot of fun!

 

[Vivo001]

It sounds like things are rough on the development side, and I can empathize with the perspective of those looking at the economics of it all. It's only logical to try and make more money if you have the ability to do so. With that said, I think it's also important you are able to express yourself as an artist and accomplish what you want to do creatively. For me personally, having someone obtain something I made for free and be personally touched by it is worth more then 10 people paying for it, giving a "Meh", and moving on. 5 years from now I'm not going to remember 95% of the Porn games I've played. There are even some in that list I've helped pay for development of, through Patreon. The ones I will remember will be the ones that tried to do something special even though they didn't have to. The ones that tried to do something different or special beyond the sex.

To give an example of one of these games I hold in such high regard: Monster Girl Quest. At the time this game came out, Femdom games weren't really a thing, so that, in itself, made it somewhat special. But what truly blew me away was how invested I became in the story and characters. In the beginning it seemed like such a generic plot and all I wanted to see were the scenes, but by the end I was actually skipping scenes to get closer to the conclusion. And then when the climax occurred, and the triumphant music played, I realized I'd never forget this game. Monster Girl Quest didn't need a story like that. It didn't need to go out of it's way to analyze the struggles of Monster Girls and Humans, or have a protagonist who wanted to genuinely live in a world where the two could live together in harmony. There's a bad end that occurs in the end of the 2nd game that still disturbs me to think about to this day, but it's one that you, as the player, can voluntarily choose to take. The point being, this game didn't need any of this. Nobody was asking for or expecting any of this. All it needed to do was give you an excuse to run around, run into monsters, write up some scenes, and call it a day. Instead the developer took the time to flesh out the world, have some genuine character building, and tell a story that the player could come to really care about. To this day I still remember that game in detail, whereas with Dieselmine's Violated Hero series, with like 6 entries that has a similar concept, I can't remember anything about any of them except that I probably had a decent fap over them once upon a time.

P.S: One thing the analytics might also be missing is that by having a game where you appeal to both subs and doms, you are going to have a lot more appeal with the broader audience. Right now the game is only in 0.3 so it's possible it's still under a lot of people's radar (Porn games tend to be abandoned a lot so many people will try to wait until it's closer to a 1.0 release before trying them), but as it becomes more fleshed out you might get a surprisingly large audience that wouldn't be possible with only catering to subs. Despite constantly searching for Femdom games, I only stumbled upon this game myself because someone left a comment on another thread specifically praising the freedom of impactful choices in this game. They were using this game as an example to follow. There was no reference or commentary on the actual sex scenes.

 

[Ayhsel]

Ok.. I've gotta ask.. people are complaining about the third release? Is this a joke? How did 2021 get to April 1st so quickly?

Am I the only one that loves this game more and more with each release?

I know that taste differ and bla bla bla but I cannot find anything to complain about. Specially not on the third release. And I swear I love complaining. The chapter had everything: hard choices, character development, new info on the sisters, beautiful conflict. Even content for all "kinks", if you care so much about that.

Being a phd student I cannot subscribe to all I want (i can only afford so little) but this game is in my rotative list and I would definitely buy it if released on steam.

Whatever happens, I totally loved it. And I hope the best for the dev.

 

[Spfjolietjake]

Am I the only one that loves this game more and more with each release?

No, you are not the only one at all.

 

[BigStuffedTiger]

I don't want you to feed bad about it, it's not a specific thing but rather a compounding of things at once. It's actually more of an assist to me with specifics versus generalizations, as that makes it ten times worse with trying to figure out why. It's not a big deal, but what I meant is that if I felt 0.4 was a big downgrade in my own eyes, that would likely tell me it's time to consider doing something else. I knew there would also be some challenge with two protagonists, but the game would not exist without Olivia, as that is the part of the game most for me.

I adore Olivia. I'm looking forward to how our choices impact the relationship dynamics between her and her brothers.

I mean, it makes sense as it's kind of myself in a way. Maybe more femdom devs are subs and love 100% sub decisions/branches, but I am the complete opposite and even a male dom path was not enough for me, I needed a female dom choice path to enjoy writing the game at all. I don't know, maybe in the end more submissively minded people can do this kind of game better.

Subs are no better than Doms in this regard. I'm at a point where I hesitate to read anything written by a male sub because the female doms often feel more like fetish dispensers checking off the items on a fetish checklist than actual people. It's a matter of empathy, but empathy can be a two-edged sword, and I don't think you'd feel the need to vent like this over what others are telling you if you didn't have empathy.

Two separate people took this post and another one after yours (about multiple protagonists) and showed them to me. I'm also getting shown detailed financial metrics over months/years about which femdom games (the top 40 femdom games on Graphtreon) do well financially and which do not, and why with very detailed specifics about style, plot, fetishes, etc. The basic crux behind all of that is I am being pressured by a few around me that want me to move to my second game idea and their primary argument is that femdom games of this style (you can see others like ED as another example) will never do well because of the nature of the femdom audience and what they actually pay for... (when you look at the very successful ones with femdom the style is completely different) I am getting relentlessly pounded with the idea recently that this kind of audience just doesn't pay for a certain style of content versus another audience that does, etc. I believe I have 175 Patrons which sounds ok to me, but they are also showing me how many Patrons even objectively crappy games more like my second idea are getting month after month.

It's your call Tess, but as you've said previously, this is more of a hobby than a living for you. Writing by formula to maximize income because you need to make a living off it isn't as much fun as following your muse and writing something that is personally satisfying. The former isn't referred to as "selling out" without reason.

IMHO, you have something very special here. I don't think there's anything else quite like it, and you're kind of in a position where you're blazing your own path instead of following in the footsteps of others. if you stick with it long enough for it to build up a head of steam the naysayers around you may well be surprised at just how successful it turns out to be in the end.

It is mostly well meaning from people that feel I can make a lot more doing another game, but that's not the whole story. I am not caving to this pressure as I basically try and do whatever I want in life, but it has made it less fun for me. But I don't want people fearing I would stop anything due to outside factors -- only I would make that decision. The only fact they have showed me so far that does make me feel down sometimes is seeing how much I am actually making per hour of work on the game. But as long as it's fun, that hasn't been a huge deal. But I at least need the help of my artist now here and there, I really rely on her with little things now to keep my primary business ok with life/time balance.

But I don't want people to worry about the game that way, I have nothing planned at all negatively in that regard. But I can't lie and say I feel the exact same way as I did during 0.3 (my favorite time making the game was during 0.3) with 0.4 right now. But it's not the game itself as the reason why, it's the constant outside voices telling me I'm turning down a better thing and that this audience talks the most and gives the least kind of thing, etc. (0.4 is getting kind of close, did an update on public Patreon post)

IMHO you should stick to your guns Tess. Don't let the doubters wear you down. The game is going very well.

Anyway, sorry for the rant/long post. I feel better now, lol.

Good. You're awesome Tess!

 

[Maviarab]

It's your call Tess, but as you've said previously, this is more of a hobby than a living for you. Writing by formula to maximize income because you need to make a living off it isn't as much fun as following your muse and writing something that is personally satisfying. The former isn't referred to as "selling out" without reason.

This, I've also said the same to Tess.

Upon further consideration, this may be contoversial also but, one has to wonder just exactly how good of a friends and advisors these people actually are when even now, they fail to understand why Tess is doing what she is doing and continually try to push her in a different direction. Very obvious they are in it as much for the potential financial gain than anything else themselves.

 

[calitos1o]

I love the "Evil Sis" path

 

[bawus]

If every creation was based on past performance data, there would be no room for innovation. In other words, prototype work has no proof of concept to be based on. Big risks, brings great rewards. When you standardize your work you may reduce your risk but you also standardize potential.

I am not saying that statistical information is to be ignored. But it's not the Bible. Imho with this game your carving something new. I have played many femdom games but K.G. is something special. It might not be something extremely financially successful, but it could be the base of creating a "cult" following. And having a fan base may be the foundation for greatness(or not).

Don't get me wrong, i am data driven, my work is 100% data based, but people tend to underestimate non quantifiable data. Don't listen to us, take us under consideration and follow ur Muse... my 2 cents.

P.S. I do pay for your releases(not a patron) and will continue to do so, as they come. Thank you for your work Tess!

 

[MaxPain]

I'll just give a piece of advice concerning multi project. If you start a second project, you'll delay both your releases.
Your customers pay in order to have a finished game. If you abandon your project or delay too much the updates, you'll join the numerous developpers who are classified as unreliable. Your reputation will decrease and whatever may be the projections of what is expected to please gamers, you'll plunge in the depths of the forums and patreon.

Building a solid base of customers passes by giving solid updates respecting at least a loose schedule.

The developper of GGGB has such a solid base of patrons due to a solid story, a respected schedule, having gived a finished game to the followers.

That's for the economic aspect of it. On the artistic level, following trends and curves is just the worse idea ever. What's make difference between games is how much soul you put in it. If you follow your heart and make the game you want to make, you'll achieve a far better result than in sticking to trends and curves.

I'm French. In France, series are produced mainly by copying american tv shows and choosing everything according to market segments. As a result, shows are deprived of any originality. Ok, producers earn decent amount of money but they've not even the slightest chance of making a 'game of thrones' type of serie, a desperate housewives, House of cards or anything that counts; juste a pale copy of ncis and the likes.

 

[Z - Reborn]

Do we know the scope of 0.4?

Tess hit 800 renders 3/4 days ago, so we should be getting fairly close!

 

[IndigoHawk]

There's no way to guarantee a game will be lucky enough to grow quickly. The realistic way is stick to a schedule and deliver consistent quality updates. To do that, creators have to be passionate about what they're making. There's very few people who can look at the market, analyze it, and then work long hours making something they don't even enjoy. Listening to advice to change the game but then losing interest in creating it, or listening to advice to constantly abandon games to try new ideas will simply lose followers.

I think Karlssons's Gambit is unique and interesting and can develop a decent following but will grow slowly because it's more niche than other games. I'm a bit concerned that structurally it's ambitious and may not be able to provide enough content for all the routes with each update to keep various patrons satisfied.

Here are two examples of games going different routes.

A good example is CheekyGimp. Up until some development problems in the last year, good updates were released regularly, and the game grew steadily. The game doesn't have many branches. Players basically pick whether they are interested in a scene with a love interest or not, occassionally having the option of getting one scene or another before the branches merge back together.

You must be registered to see the links

A bad example is SilkandMilkProductions. Updates were good but released sporadically and got shorter each time, and had a lot of branches that didn't get much content. The dev constantly whinged about money before finally demanding more pledges. Naturally people abandoned the game instead of pledging more. Not a good strategy.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[TessSadist]

There's no way to guarantee a game will be lucky enough to grow quickly. The realistic way is stick to a schedule and deliver consistent quality updates. To do that, creators have to be passionate about what they're making. There's very few people who can look at the market, analyze it, and then work long hours making something they don't even enjoy. Listening to advice to change the game but then losing interest in creating it, or listening to advice to constantly abandon games to try new ideas will simply lose followers.

I think Karlssons's Gambit is unique and interesting and can develop a decent following but will grow slowly because it's more niche than other games. I'm a bit concerned that structurally it's ambitious and may not be able to provide enough content for all the routes with each update to keep various patrons satisfied.

Here are two examples of games going different routes.

A good example is CheekyGimp. Up until some development problems in the last year, good updates were released regularly, and the game grew steadily. The game doesn't have many branches. Players basically pick whether they are interested in a scene with a love interest or not, occassionally having the option of getting one scene or another before the branches merge back together.

You must be registered to see the links

A bad example is SilkandMilkProductions. Updates were good but released sporadically and got shorter each time, and had a lot of branches that didn't get much content. The dev constantly whinged about money before finally demanding more pledges. Naturally people abandoned the game instead of pledging more. Not a good strategy.

You must be registered to see the links

Yes, Cheeky is actually one of the devs being shown to me as evidence that it's better to go simpler and more linear rather than tons of branches that impact development time. I'm at a truce now with everyone around me in that we agreed to certain metrics for each update being met or not before I become open minded to what they are saying. Certainly if an update causes a drop in performance or very slow growth, that is a very telling sign.

 

[TessSadist]

This, I've also said the same to Tess.

Upon further consideration, this may be contoversial also but, one has to wonder just exactly how good of a friends and advisors these people actually are when even now, they fail to understand why Tess is doing what she is doing and continually try to push her in a different direction. Very obvious they are in it as much for the potential financial gain than anything else themselves.

Yes, I am very aware of the motivations of those around me. The crux of the matter is more about my normal business time versus the game, and that taking any time away from a very promising business should be for something very promising as well, etc.

 

[TessSadist]

Expect maybe February for 0.4. I am kind of close, but because of all the branches, I require more time/renders to kind of have the same level of content so to speak. I expect this one to hit about 1,300-1,400 or so.