VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2 Test] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[TessSadist]

While I love this game, and it's currently tied as my favorite Femdom one, with Femdom City MANTIS, I thought I'd share a complaint which really irks me, while waiting for 0.5.

This game is supposed to be primarily Femdom oriented, yet the "best" decisions are always taking a dominant path. It always feels like the game wants to mould a man who's basically a dom, but is alright with existing in female dominated hierarchy, and playing his part. Characters pretty directly express disgust with submissiveness in a game that's supposed to be catering to subs (or female doms). That might be a fetish of some subs, to truly be hated instead of just dominated, but it's definitely not mine. There's one decent sub path if you choose options like you're a godlike saint and a ragdoll just going with the flow but that feels disingenuous and very limiting and then lacks some of the juicy hardcore content. It's only at the very end when your sister's taking a nap that you have a single option which feels normal, where you get to willingly choose to be submissive to a character, yet maintain a shred of dignity, and that's a very tame scene. Maybe I'm an outlier, not worth catering to, but some dudes enjoy hardcore stuff while still being dignified. All of the hardcore scenes are in the level 4 outcome instead of level 5 or 6. That comes with additional unavoidable stuff, some of which isn't desirable - like the Veronica experiment having you have a worthless cock instead of a desirable one, and the branding scene. If a man's submissive he doesn't have to be worthless loser with a pitiful dick. That kind of thinking is probably the mainstream interpretation, but someone into Femdom should know better.

And I also agree with Petruha2k, that the game needs a bit more action and a bit less talk. It's almost tiresome to keep listening to people talking about the hierarchy and making smart decisions and how sly/clever you are or need to be, and how it's all about being big brained and taking x,y,z into consideration. I don't want to play a politician or a guy trying to be C.E.O, I want to play a decent desirable guy who's sometimes forced into submission due to his predicament, and sometimes chooses to be submissive because he has a thing for it.

I would just say I doubt this game is for you long-term. I think some people forget that I am not a male sub at all, so you might be better off playing a game designed by one? (I don't know.) Without the element of writing about decisions/intrigue/power, I'd literally stop right away with development. It's actually the only reason I am still going right now and not immediately moving on as the game actually does cost me money from opportunity cost, not the other way around. I have literally zero interest in just writing femdom scenes over and over. I'd be bored out of my mind within minutes. For the story, it is also dangerous for most of the females in the game to show interest in a dignified sub male (note that only Dominique and Alessandra currently even show this because they are very secure in power and no guard or staff would dare show this even if they felt it inside) as it's not good for their own sake/situation.

So I'd suggest you just let it go now and save the disappointment. I say this in particular because of your last sentence because the political/CEO type stuff is just a major part of why I did the game...I never made it to just do femdom scenes. And that's ok, not every game is for everyone. There are dozens of femdom games where you can just do scene after scene pretty quickly, and those can be great too for a lot of people. Much more popular games than mine exist that are just scene after scene of femdom stuff, maybe you can try some of those?

 

[LustButNotLeast]

I agree, infact I love this game primarily for the storyline, the "Karlsson's gambit" itself. The fight for the power, the twists, the four sisters' different personalities, etc...
I like the "femdom thing" because I like the possibility to try to tame a dominant female, in games like -sometimes, when and if it happens but it's not absolutely a kink, on the contrary- in real life. It's a challenge. And, overall, I love smart women with strong personalities, I guess I couldn't be attracted by a too submissive woman.
I'm not a female so I know I can't really understand completely their personalities, but I guess that a dominant female likes to dominate weak males, but also likes a male who can stand up to her.
First time I played the game, without WT, I was a K6, it resulted the most "natural" path to me.
Following times with the WT, I wanted to try other paths, attracted by the (impressive) deepness of the game. So I even watched the pegging scene with Scarlett, and infact now I hope that in next updates MC can have the possibility to really dominate Scarlett. Because it's more "satisfying" to dominate a strong girl, for the tamer and for the tamed too, I guess.

 

[PGpauljp13]

I would just say I doubt this game is for you long-term. I think some people forget that I am not a male sub at all, so you might be better off playing a game designed by one? (I don't know.) Without the element of writing about decisions/intrigue/power, I'd literally stop right away with development. It's actually the only reason I am still going right now and not immediately moving on as the game actually does cost me money from opportunity cost, not the other way around. I have literally zero interest in just writing femdom scenes over and over. I'd be bored out of my mind within minutes. For the story, it is also dangerous for most of the females in the game to show interest in a dignified sub male (note that only Dominique and Alessandra currently even show this because they are very secure in power and no guard or staff would dare show this even if they felt it inside) as it's not good for their own sake/situation.

So I'd suggest you just let it go now and save the disappointment. I say this in particular because of your last sentence because the political/CEO type stuff is just a major part of why I did the game...I never made it to just do femdom scenes. And that's ok, not every game is for everyone. There are dozens of femdom games where you can just do scene after scene pretty quickly, and those can be great too for a lot of people. Much more popular games than mine exist that are just scene after scene of femdom stuff, maybe you can try some of those?

Loving your story so far,the characters,the plot,the intrigue,mystery etc.
Played both sub and dom.Your vision for your story is totally cool and keep doing what you do so well.
Cheers

 

[VividSexuality]

I would just say I doubt this game is for you long-term. I think some people forget that I am not a male sub at all, so you might be better off playing a game designed by one? (I don't know.) Without the element of writing about decisions/intrigue/power, I'd literally stop right away with development. It's actually the only reason I am still going right now and not immediately moving on as the game actually does cost me money from opportunity cost, not the other way around. I have literally zero interest in just writing femdom scenes over and over. I'd be bored out of my mind within minutes. So I'd suggest you just let it go now and save the disappointment. I never made it to just do femdom scenes. And that's ok, not every game is for everyone. There are dozens of femdom games where you can just do scene after scene pretty quickly, and those can be great too for a lot of people. Much more popular games than mine exist that are just scene after scene of femdom stuff, maybe you can try some of those?

Pretty dismissive. I mentioned agreeing with another user in feeling the game needs a bit more action vs. text briefly at the end, but that clearly wasn't my main criticism. You focused on that and lowered it into basically saying "Go watch porn if that's what you want".

For the story, it is also dangerous for most of the females in the game to show interest in a dignified sub male (note that only Dominique and Alessandra currently even show this because they are very secure in power and no guard or staff would dare show this even if they felt it inside) as it's not good for their own sake/situation. I say this in particular because of your last sentence because the political/CEO type stuff is just a major part of why I did the game..

How would any of the other females know it's a "dignified sub male" rather than the usual if it's pretty straightforward for a guy to act the way needs to in public (politics and decisions here) while still maintaining dignity in private with female dommes. This behaviour is shown often throughout the game. The first section of the game already shows this, where Patricia acts like you're the same lowly pig as the two other guys, and the main character plays his part as well. Here, it's even implemented both ways, where in the saint-like path, Patricia enjoys your submission but still helps you out. But overall there are almost none who like subs in a Femdom game, especially much of the hardcore content which is in the failing-line. Those who'd use the male as a playtoy (clearly showing they like subs) show nothing but disdain, while literally enjoying what he provides. Even in a cruel or humiliating way, acknowledgement of their love for the submission would go far.

And while it's true I don't care to act like a mastermind to fiddle with politics and try to become CEO, I'd be perfectly happy with that type of progression if there was also a more sub-oriented path to attain it instead of the game clearly favoring a dominant path. That was my point. I guess if you claim the game's just not designed for male subs in that way, that'd be that. But it's not strange to assume a Femdom game would want to cater to them more than doms.

I'll probably keep following the game, since I like the concept overall, and love the character designs. But I guess I'll refrain from voicing criticism, given that the creator herself has now stated the design and direction is not intended to be to my tastes.

 

[Mograx]

I'd be perfectly happy with that type of progression if there was also a more sub-oriented path to attain it instead of the game clearly favoring a dominant path.

Favorable progression through a sub path? Favoring according to whom? What is progression to you? Your answer isn't the same as others who value the submission path. And certainly not those who follow the dom path. Every single character in this game wants you to fall in line. That's the world this game is set in. If you want to be a sub, you must deal with the consequences the well crafted story and immersive experience that's been provided.

Personally, I'm only here because this objectively, empirically, female dom against an innate sub male MC themed game allows those who hate that shit RISE AGAINST IT.
YOU KNOW WHO THE REAL KANE IS IN THIS GAME?

THE CREAM RISES TO THE TOP.

DON'T YOU FORGET IT.

Sorry. I've had a few too many. fRIENDS WERE IN FROM OUT OF TOWN.
It's time for bed.

 

[Aseratrix]

Pretty dismissive. I mentioned agreeing with another user in feeling the game needs a bit more action vs. text briefly at the end, but that clearly wasn't my main criticism. You focused on that and lowered it into basically saying "Go watch porn if that's what you want".

Holy Minerva, you are one of those dudes who can not take NO for an answer. Pretty sad, and not a submissive attitude at all. Have you heard about topping from the bottom? You sound exactly like those fake subs who want to control everything in their "submission". If you want to be told how good a puppy you are each time, you don't want a dominant woman, you want a service. Insisting on something that was already discussed and rejected like a broken record won't get you far with any dev, nor that it should. Games here are the visions of someone, we who play them can decide whether or not that vision is for us. I really want to see this game taken to completion, stop antagonizing the dev, please!

 

[Kukuok]

What is going on around here?

 

[Kagarus]

The forum has a general issue with people going into threads of games that don't hit their tastes and demand give feedback that it should cater to their tastes, regardless of the vision of the dev and existing audience (see the driveby "needs a male protagonist, female protagonist booh" posts in femprotag game threads...)
Feedback is important, no harm in asking "hey, do you plan to include x/if it had y that would be cool", but this ain't it. Respect other peoples kinks/preferences -_-

 

[TessSadist]

Pretty dismissive. I mentioned agreeing with another user in feeling the game needs a bit more action vs. text briefly at the end, but that clearly wasn't my main criticism. You focused on that and lowered it into basically saying "Go watch porn if that's what you want".



How would any of the other females know it's a "dignified sub male" rather than the usual if it's pretty straightforward for a guy to act the way needs to in public (politics and decisions here) while still maintaining dignity in private with female dommes. This behaviour is shown often throughout the game. The first section of the game already shows this, where Patricia acts like you're the same lowly pig as the two other guys, and the main character plays his part as well. Here, it's even implemented both ways, where in the saint-like path, Patricia enjoys your submission but still helps you out. But overall there are almost none who like subs in a Femdom game, especially much of the hardcore content which is in the failing-line. Those who'd use the male as a playtoy (clearly showing they like subs) show nothing but disdain, while literally enjoying what he provides. Even in a cruel or humiliating way, acknowledgement of their love for the submission would go far.

And while it's true I don't care to act like a mastermind to fiddle with politics and try to become CEO, I'd be perfectly happy with that type of progression if there was also a more sub-oriented path to attain it instead of the game clearly favoring a dominant path. That was my point. I guess if you claim the game's just not designed for male subs in that way, that'd be that. But it's not strange to assume a Femdom game would want to cater to them more than doms.

I'll probably keep following the game, since I like the concept overall, and love the character designs. But I guess I'll refrain from voicing criticism, given that the creator herself has now stated the design and direction is not intended to be to my tastes.

That would best, appreciate it!

 

[Frosty2000]

Ever since I played Olivia, I am in fact also in favor of more games featuring female dominants. I can easily see myself through their eyes so to speak, and that is in some cases even more exciting than the usual perspective I enjoy.

I like playing Oliva too. Of course as a very dominant woman too. Really enjoy the difference in power and status between her and submissive male MC. From my sub view I find it quite fitting that all the major decisions are given to Olivia, while his decisions going forward mainly influence if he e.g. becomes a feet, pussy or ass "cleaner" today.

They clearly don't appreciate the received submission in this game though. The less dominant you are, the more hated you are, the lower you fall in rank, until you're a mindless zombie that's thrown off a ship without batting an eye. Yet the more dominant you are, the more each of the girls shows an interest in you and praises you. There are exceptions, like the petplay girl you can have a romance path with, but it's a very minor line, and someone may not necessarily have that kink.

I also noticed immediately that Elena clearly wanted to push the MC to be dominant and I disliked her for that in the beginning. Still given the MC's important background I understand why they (all the Karlsson women) try to build him up that way initially. So that isn't making me mad in anyway, since I see the reason behind it and don't think that these women simply want all "real" males to be selfish, dominant asshole guys. Okay, maybe one of them wants that, but let's see...

Also thanks to the options given I simply resisted all their attempts anyway. Sure my MC wasn't really respected much, but all the women using him seemed to clearly enjoy themselves. Just need to give the ladies some time to fully appreciate the MC's submissive personality. Meanwhile Elena e.g. seems to have to come to terms with that and seeing Olivia's dom path development, I am confident she will come to appreciate my MC's resistance to take a dominant role even more. I am also sure, or let's say I am hopeful, that towards the end of the story most, if not all Karlsson related women, will appreciate in some way that the male MC was a total sub and that they could do whatever they wanted with him.;P If that won't happen I guess I will have to write some fan fiction ending or myself...

Concerning dominant male paths I am not thinking too much about it, since I have no interest in them. So I don't play them and for my playthroughs they simply don't exist. Would be my simple advice to you too.

 

[tamzarian]

To survive in the game, it seems you have to sell your soul, it's another form of submission, in my opinion. But it's the dominant way, like said Pierre Bourdieu, the dominant class are also dominated by their domination. This is my two cents, i really like this game, it's art.

 

[Deleted member 3042943]

Pretty dismissive. I mentioned agreeing with another user in feeling the game needs a bit more action vs. text briefly at the end, but that clearly wasn't my main criticism. You focused on that and lowered it into basically saying "Go watch porn if that's what you want".



How would any of the other females know it's a "dignified sub male" rather than the usual if it's pretty straightforward for a guy to act the way needs to in public (politics and decisions here) while still maintaining dignity in private with female dommes. This behaviour is shown often throughout the game. The first section of the game already shows this, where Patricia acts like you're the same lowly pig as the two other guys, and the main character plays his part as well. Here, it's even implemented both ways, where in the saint-like path, Patricia enjoys your submission but still helps you out. But overall there are almost none who like subs in a Femdom game, especially much of the hardcore content which is in the failing-line. Those who'd use the male as a playtoy (clearly showing they like subs) show nothing but disdain, while literally enjoying what he provides. Even in a cruel or humiliating way, acknowledgement of their love for the submission would go far.

And while it's true I don't care to act like a mastermind to fiddle with politics and try to become CEO, I'd be perfectly happy with that type of progression if there was also a more sub-oriented path to attain it instead of the game clearly favoring a dominant path. That was my point. I guess if you claim the game's just not designed for male subs in that way, that'd be that. But it's not strange to assume a Femdom game would want to cater to them more than doms.

I'll probably keep following the game, since I like the concept overall, and love the character designs. But I guess I'll refrain from voicing criticism, given that the creator herself has now stated the design and direction is not intended to be to my tastes.

You can't complain that a hotdog restaurant doesn't serve burgers.

 

[Hedonistscum]

You can't complain that a hotdog restaurant doesn't serve burgers.

What are you even on about? This a femdom game he didn't go to a maledom game and ask for a submissive man. No what he asked was that some woman show a modicum of respect for the sub male route. I don't even mind that the male sub gets treated like trash but don't misconstrue what he was saying as something out of line or inappropriate.

 

[Myth1014]

I read a few posts in and I think I should mention that the political intrigue and the plotting and scheming has been one of the best aspects of this game for me, the dom sub stuff is fine and its really good, it happens to be one of my kinks but really it's not the selling point of the game for me (even though among all the games I've played on this site this one is pretty unique and very good at focusing on that). The actual tug of war between the sisters and the idea of MC being able to influence it is what I really love about the game.
Now I should also mention that whole idea of being a dominant man in a society where men are expected to be submissive and well everyone else is submissive, does play pretty well into my fantasy so I might just be really biased in my opinions since this game seems to cater exactly to people who feel/think like me.

 

[TessSadist]

In the interest of some disclosure, I do feel that I can at least share some minor spoilers but will mark it as such. This is part of a basic chart I created which outlines some possible "romantic" paths for Kane only. (Olivia and Seth are different in how they work because Seth kind of depends on Kane/Olivia choices, and Olivia is kind of very dependent on her current status even more than Kane in some ways) So for Kane, marking as spoilers not the pure status to get a path, but rather how flexible a character is to "tweak" or change from their initial starting point as a character in terms of attitudes towards sub/dom players. (note that good/evil can also tweak this but not included here) So I have them as Set (they cannot change who they are at all in this respect so there is really only one playable path), Somewhat Flexible (they can be influenced to change a little towards player choice/status but cannot really fundamentally change entirely and Kane must meet her halfway), and More Flexible (they are more pliable to play multiple romance paths because they are open to different types of "Kanes" in a lot of ways, so very flexible to adjust to the winds of change so to speak).

If you don't want to know, don't open spoiler tag, although of course stories can tweak a little! The big spoiler to me in here is the actual list in that it lists true romantic possibilities (not technically all but there is a reason for that, and most characters can be extra lovers/slaves/friends with benefits but not a true romance I guess. (maybe a third person style perhaps)

(I might forget someone since this is off the top of my head but do include who I remember, and some of these take patience, they are not happening super soon or anything)

Last, regarding the gentle femdom paths, there are two major characters that will do that, and two others that are open, and one last one which is hard to explain without saying too much. But given the narrative world, it is almost impossible for a lower ranked person to really risk this even behind closed doors. Only the very comfortable and powerful might go that route.

Remember, this is more serious stuff, not just sex scenes as that is way more open for most characters. I will spoil a few characters in there as an example where you can have sex with her but not go father without specific variables. Please be respectful and not spoil this in the actual thread or I basically will have to edit everything out and even more possibly alter my plans just to make it different since it's not set in stone, lol! Also, not every romance is in depth, a few are clearly more deep and involved than more casual ones. So this list seems big, but in reality, the biggest romances with lots of scenes are more limited. Meaning that some romances actually are central to the final plot/resolution, while others are merely part of the story but not crucial to the final plot outcome. (the path might look very similar on your path of choices whether you are with her or not except with side scenes so to speak)

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Thanks! Oh, I forgot to add that Olivia has some possible paths with some of the same characters (these women can go both ways basically) so they can close off each other so to speak sometimes.

 

[TessSadist]

I also noticed immediately that Elena clearly wanted to push the MC to be dominant and I disliked her for that in the beginning. Still given the MC's important background I understand why they (all the Karlsson women) try to build him up that way initially. So that isn't making me mad in anyway, since I see the reason behind it and don't think that these women simply want all "real" males to be selfish, dominant asshole guys. Okay, maybe one of them wants that, but let's see...

Meanwhile Elena e.g. seems to have to come to terms with that and seeing Olivia's dom path development, I am confident she will come to appreciate my MC's resistance to take a dominant role even more.

Err, this has to be just for you...if not desiring minor spoilers, don't open!

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[BigStuffedTiger]

Hi Tess, awesome game you've been writing. I have a question and a few comments on your latest posts here.

Remember, this is more serious stuff, not just sex scenes as that is way more open for most characters. I will spoil a few characters in there as an example where you can have sex with her but not go father without specific variables. Please be respectful and not spoil this in the actual thread or I basically will have to edit everything out and even more possibly alter my plans just to make it different since it's not set in stone, lol! Also, not every romance is in depth, a few are clearly more deep and involved than more casual ones. So this list seems big, but in reality, the biggest romances with lots of scenes are more limited. Meaning that some romances actually are central to the final plot/resolution, while others are merely part of the story but not crucial to the final plot outcome. (the path might look very similar on your path of choices whether you are with her or not except with side scenes so to speak)

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When you say that a character "won't romance sub/good characters, only dom/evil", does that mean characters who are both dom and good (or at least neutral on the good-evil scale), or for that matter, both sub and evil, are out? Or are they in because they still meet one of the requirements?

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Thanks! Oh, I forgot to add that Olivia has some possible paths with some of the same characters (these women can go both ways basically) so they can close off each other so to speak sometimes.

I kind of got the vibe that Alessandra might have subtly hinted at being interested in pursuing something with Olivia, and thus could be one of the characters that have a path with both Olivia and Kane.

 

[LustButNotLeast]

Err, this has to be just for you...if not desiring minor spoilers, don't open!

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Update is increasingly awaited.
I'm quite sure it will be full of scenes like that.
Even if I look forward for a futture reversal of roles.
By the way, little is said about Olivia's choice, in the end of last update, to work with one of the sisters, that is specified to be a very important choice for the game.
I chose Dominique, because it's the most intriguing sister to me.
anyway, this is already one of best games on F95, but I'm feeling that next update can take this game to very high peaks.

 

[Deleted member 3042943]

What are you even on about? This a femdom game he didn't go to a maledom game and ask for a submissive man. No what he asked was that some woman show a modicum of respect for the sub male route. I don't even mind that the male sub gets treated like trash but don't misconstrue what he was saying as something out of line or inappropriate.

It wasn't misconstrued. Yeah, the analogy was a bit exaggerated, but hyperbole is a figure of speech. It was more like him asking for a pork hotdog, when the restaurant only serves beef hotdogs, but his criticism is that they should do pork hotdogs, because HE likes them.

 

[Retromancer]

Err, this has to be just for you...if not desiring minor spoilers, don't open!

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Ahh, just when I am already at peak excitement you drop this on me...