VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.1 Part I] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[PGpauljp13]

Any relationship between Elena & mc ??

No.

 

[Sancho1969]

TessSadist Good morning. I think there is a conditional label jump that is either not the intended result or is redundant (I don't know which while tracing) at the end of label "fashiondance". It is as follows:

    if phfuck:
        jump jdyacht
    else:
        jump phoebechoice

Issue: there is no possibility that "phfuck" can be true inside this label. I'm not sure but it might have been intended to be "clfuck" instead but that doesn't really make sense either because that variable is set to True inside that label regardless of action and wouldn't require a conditional check. Anyway, there's a few of these that stopped me in my tracks late last night while trying to put a bow on the mod so I thought I'd report it to you for thoughts. Wishing you the best and regards.

 

[indio68]

Super duper busy with something else, but greatly enjoyed reading all of this!

Some people in this thread are far smarter than I in exploring narrative/character motivation! I thought I could be clever and subtle about some things, but maybe not as much as I thought, haha!

I hate giving answers, but always don't mind giving more questions:

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I had a lot more to say, but I have to rest! Perhaps later, hope everyone is having fun! Sorry if it doesn't make perfect sense, very imperfect response and not read it over carefully before hitting send, lol.

Very good game. you are one of the best writer in this genre and you deserve to be part of a great company..if onoy big publisher limit themself to their function and not try to impose\nose into development..we could have this game ready for now...waiting is killing me ..so many good VN but so Looong waiting...sry bad english . and congratz for your skill

 

[Spfjolietjake]

Very good game. you are one of the best writer in this genre and you deserve to be part of a great company..if onoy big publisher limit themself to their function and not try to impose\nose into development..we could have this game ready for now...waiting is killing me ..so many good VN but so Looong waiting...sry bad english . and congratz for your skill

Greatness takes time. This vn is worth the wait. If it was sped up it would lose so much about what makes it so damn good imo

 

[Kxca]

Any relationship between Elena & mc ??

https://f95zone.to/threads/karlsson...grym-gudinna-games.50840/page-95#post-6521558
You can check this post by Tess for possible romantic interests. But do keep in mind that this is spoiler-heavy so read at your own risk

 

[indio68]

Greatness takes time. This vn is worth the wait. If it was sped up it would lose so much about what makes it so damn good imo

i meant that with a big publisher and more resources it could speed up mantening the great quality

 

[Sancho1969]

TessSadist here's another possible conditional bork in the 5b patch. Both [helpseth] & [fuckseth] have same conditional result under label sisdomjudgment to sis_team += 1. Reckon I'd point it out since it wouldn't be necessary to use a conditional at all if sis_team += 1 was going to be set regardless choice selected, making me think you might have had another intent. Regards.


I may very well have missed something but I've yet to find a routing that by the time one gets to any of the judgement scenes that either [helpseth] or [fuckseth] isn't set to True.

 

[Spfjolietjake]

i meant that with a big publisher and more resources it could speed up mantening the great quality

Oh I understand and you are right however not to speak out of turn but I believe from the dev's words they are too much a control freak for that to be an asset.

The dev pours so much intricacies in this vn I believe outside help wouldn't be a good thing. I know waiting sucks but personally I don't want that to change for fear of what changes it would cause with the vn.

To be cliché: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just my two cents

 

[gregers]

TessSadist here's another possible conditional bork in the 5b patch. Both [helpseth] & [fuckseth] have same conditional result under label sisdomjudgment to sis_team += 1. Reckon I'd point it out since it wouldn't be necessary to use a conditional at all if sis_team += 1 was going to be set regardless choice selected, making me think you might have had another intent. Regards.
View attachment 1456675

I may very well have missed something but I've yet to find a routing that by the time one gets to any of the judgement scenes that either [helpseth] or [fuckseth] isn't set to True.

That's working as intended, as I understand. The helpseth/fuckseth decision trumps Olivia's overall good/evil alignment: As long as Kane picks the option that matches her decision, they get a sis_team point.

It means my preferred evil triumvirate path (Olivia and Kane working together to fuck over everyone else, and bringing Seth along for the ride) likely becomes nonviable, but that's life.

 

[Sancho1969]

That's working as intended, as I understand. The helpseth/fuckseth decision trumps Olivia's overall good/evil alignment: As long as Kane picks the option that matches her decision, they get a sis_team point.

It means my preferred evil triumvirate path (Olivia and Kane working together to fuck over everyone else, and bringing Seth along for the ride) likely becomes nonviable, but that's life.

But have you found any route yet that either helpseth/fuckseth isn't True? If not then the conditional is mute. I'm working on revising stat screens and not routing at the moment..

 

[gregers]

But have you found any route yet that either helpseth/fuckseth isn't True? If not then the conditional is mute. I'm working on revising stat screens and not routing at the moment..

No, it's a binary choice where you must pick one or the other: It could (at least for now) just as easily have been one variable set as True or False, if that's what you mean. But they affect sisdomjudgment, as your screenshot shows, in that the choice there (morals or power) has to match the option set to True to get the team point.

 

[Sancho1969]

No, it's a binary choice where you must pick one or the other: It could (at least for now) just as easily have been one variable set as True or False, if that's what you mean. But they affect sisdomjudgment, as your screenshot shows, in that the choice there (morals or power) has to match the option set to True to get the team point.

Brother, that's my whole point...there's no need for the conditional statement in the label since it's binary (unless we both missed something somewhere). That was my original point is either the conditional is redundant/mute or there was some other intent. For some reason she didn't just set sis_team directly and is using a conditional (if statement). See what I mean? It's as if she had some other intent but dunno so made the post.

 

[gregers]

Brother, that's my whole point...there's no need for the conditional statement in the label since it's binary (unless we both missed something somewhere). That was my original point is either the conditional is redundant/mute or there was some other intent. For some reason she didn't just set sis_team directly and is using a conditional (if statement). See what I mean? It's as if she had some other intent but dunno so made the post.

I don't think I follow you (but I'm neither the dev nor the modder so don't know why I'm shoving my oar in anyway ... ). I don't have the script to hand, but from memory the conditional is necessary because you only get the sis_team if your choice here matches the choice regarding Seth's fate.

 

[BigStuffedTiger]

No, just no. Olivia replacing someone is a possibility, and obviously it would change the balance of the vote. But there's just no way for Olivia to be added to the Board. It would lead to an even number of members, what is a big "no" ; at least until someone come in position to have a decisive vote.

This a straw man argument. Olivia getting a single vote on the Board isn't the only option. She may not be the only person added to the board, someone could be removed, or someone could get more than one vote. There are multiple potential configurations depending on Alexander's Will.

The main issue is that until this update, no one aside from Veronica and the Gambit Queen really knew what the Gambit would entail and thus the others feared making a mistake that would cost them everything. Dominique and Juliette were too caught up in their own rivalry to change gears without a push, and none of them were going to risk their own positions to sabotage Olivia before they even knew what was going on. And there is a lot they still don't know. So they're going to proceed cautiously even now, well everyone except maybe Juliette.

There's already a deciding vote since the Board have an odd number of members. The tie and unknown last vote are here to serve the story ; "it's an undecided situation and the final choice will be yours".

Of course, but the sisters don't know they're in a fictional story and it's their reasoning that I thought we were debating, specifically at what point they started seeing Olivia as a realistic threat.

But here, there's an assumption that shouldn't be made. It's that the two questions, "who will be the parents of Alexander's grandson" (the part of the Gambit we know about), and "who will be the next CEO of the Karlsson Group" (the vote), are necessarily linked. While talking about the Gambit, Veronica made clear that if Kane is worthy of power, he shall have the company, and that in the case he isn't, he will be nothing but a slave of the mother holding true power. Both make the fight for the succession totally useless.

First, that was a secret until that moment which only Veronica and the Gambit Queen knew. So the other sisters weren't aware of it up until this latest update. So it can't be used to justify actions like assassination attempts on Olivia by the other sisters before the revelation this update.

Second, Dominique herself admitted she wasn't certain if it would involve a board vote or not to dom Kane. And generally speaking, unless the CEO is the founder or majority shareholder, it's the Board of Directors that chooses the CEO in the real world. It may not hold in this case, but Dominique certainly considered it a possibility so I think it's reasonable for us to as well.

Third, there is inertia. Dominique and Juliette were already in a mindset that they were fighting over who controlled the board. It's very reasonable for that to continue until a change in circumstances hits them over the head, which just occurred in the latest update.

Fourth, the masked Karlsson daughter who is almost certainly Veronica told the Gambit Queen that she only had 3 votes, with Elena being a maybe. 3 Votes for what? There is also an implication here that Elena could only be relied on to vote in their favor as long as her daughter Olivia either had a shot at winning or was the winner.

If you take care to Veronica actions, in her mind it's clear that, if he's worthy, it's Kane that will decide of the winner, not a vote.
When talking one to one with him, she offered herself, as are doing Dominique and Juliette in the same situation. For Dominique and Juliette, the goal is obvious. Having Callista son with them is a step forward to the victory. But for Veronica it have another meaning, because she's not running for the seat of her father ; she offered herself as an option, and if Kane decide it, she'll be the winner.
It's less clear if Kane is not worthy, but I doubt that even in this case it would be decided by a vote. At least not as Dominique and Juliette imagine it. It would be an error to believe that Olivia, Kane and Seth are here only to be tested. They also are here as tests for the others. I guess that this especially apply to Seth, but it don't exclude Olivia and Kane.

Either you've misread my original point, or you've shifted the goal post. I was speaking specifically in the context of before this latest update. The person I was replying to before you jumped into the conversation didn't understand why the other sisters hadn't already had Olivia assassinated. My point was that they didn't have any info on how the Gambit was going to work until now, so they didn't want to ruin their own odds of inheriting by acting precipitously. Dominique herself said she wasn't sure if it would involve a Board vote or not, but she certainly appeared to be determined to win it if it did in her conversation with dom Kane.

Because she made a strategical error by lack of knowledge. Unaware that she is about the grandson part (it's only Veronica, Yvette, Elena, the Gambit Queen and the players, who know this), she can't imagine that Veronica is pursuing two different goals ; backing Olivia for the grandson, and Dominique for the lead of the group.

Dominique found out thanks to the spy in the meeting between Veronica, Yvette and Elena. It's pretty clear from Dominique's reaction that she found out very soon after Yvette. (Elena already knew some of it before the meeting, but not all of it, from before.) Then Juliette found out a piece of it from Dominique, although it doesn't appear that Dominique shared all of it with Juliette, nor should she have, that would have been a mistake and Dominique isn't stupid. Dominique has no more interest in, as Yvette put it, Juliette literally rapeing the MC over and over to make sure she won than Veronica or Elena.

As player you know that. Veronica, Elena and the Gambit Queen, especially if you're right about her identity, know that. But anyone else in the game, including the board members, are totally convinced that Kane is Olivia's half-brother.

Hmm...OK , I agree with you here now that you've explained what you meant. Nevertheless Alexander was an evil and twisted bastard so I don't put it past him to push incest. Nevertheless for those Board members who think her mother is also Callista, which is still nearly all of them, any man, not just the MC, would do. I can see where you're coming from on that.

And when I say everyone, it include Olivia. She know that Seth and her aren't related, but clearly said that she don't know if it's because she isn't Callista's daughter, or if it's Seth who isn't.

Definitely. That's almost certainly why there's been nothing serious between Olivia and Kane yet, just little things pointing towards some repressed attraction. She's probably the only Karlsson daughter who doesn't have the slightest clue what the Gambit involves yet. The revelation should be interesting. I wonder if Veronica is going to explain it to her, or if she'll task it to Elena.

Listen to all of them, not a single one doubt about this. Even Juliette don't know. Among everyone, she's the most likely to use this information.





She love to humiliate. Throwing, in the middle of her threats, "oh, by the way, Kane isn't even your real brother", would have been a perfect argument here. It would have proved the superiority of her power, since she have an information that even Veronica's favorite don't have ; and this superiority would have gave way more strength to her threat. Yet she said nothing. Why, except because she just don't know ?

As per the above, Dominique knows thanks to her spy, she just chose not to share it with Juliette. I have to say, Dominique is totally playing Juliette right now.

It's more than probable that all the Z ranked know about Seth, but they still haven't figured what it imply, still believing the information as it was provided, "Seth isn't related to Olivia" ; what let uncertain if Olivia is related to Kane or not. Then, with this information, what is the most probable from their point of view ?
Is it that Olivia, known daughter of Alexander, and supposedly first child of the only woman Alexander truly loved and worshiped, is adopted, or is it that it's the so unhealthy child of the so caring Callista that was adopted ?

The Karlsson Board puts a lot of stock in physical perfection and Seth is nowhere near physically perfect. He's a small guy with substandard sized equipment down below and a terrible degenerative disease. It's pretty easy to believe he isn't really the child of Alexander Karlsson's perfect woman. Olivia is much more impressive, so yes, I agree with you here.

Simply because I don't project my knowledge on the characters' mind.

I didn't either. But it wasn't clear to me at what point in time you were talking about and whether you were talking about what we know or what the characters know. I had previously gotten into an argument with a person here who was adamant that there would never be anything between Kane and Olivia because they were biologically related. I thought you were rehashing that argument.

It's only you, as player, who know that there's only one possible male winner. But for all characters, except Veronica, the Gambit Queen, and now both Elena and Yvette, the current batch of slaves is here to decide who will be the mate of the future CEO. And from their point of view, with the knowledge they have, it can be anyone of them. Alessandra, Dominique and perhaps also Juliette, have a preference for Kane, because they know he's Callista son, and this could give them an advantage, but that's all.

Dominique now knows what Elena and Yvette do, or whatever amount of the conversation that the cleaning slave was able to remember and relate to her, assuming he wasn't carrying a wire. The other slaves weren't mentioned in that conversation regarding Alexander's desired grandchild, only Kane. Aside from a few quick words between Veronica and Elena which the cleaning slave likely didn't completely understand, Olivia wasn't really discussed. So Olivia's path towards winning is still unclear. I agree that Juliette doesn't know what the others do, but I wouldn't be surprised if she and Alessandra suspected at least a little bit, especially Alessandra. She's a sharp cookie and likely realizes that there is more going on with the MC being there, especially if the MC is a rapidly rising dom. (I haven't gotten around to playing the sub route in the latest update yet, just the dom route. Hopefully my schedule will allow me to rectify that soon.)

Take Dominique by example. On the slave route, she wouldn't have pressed Kane to be tough from the outside, whatever how submissive he can be in the bedroom, if she knew that he'll win even if he's not worthy. It's even more visible on the K5/K6 route, where she ask him to win Veronica's support.
It's not just to gain back this support for herself, it's also with the intend to make him climb the ladder and ensure that he'll be the winner.
The same apply for Juliette, once again on the slave route. As cruel as she is, if she knew how precious he is, she would have tried to train him, instead of trying to break him by demoting him to K3, with the clear intent to totally forget about him.

All true. But this was all from before the latest update where the cleaning spy informed Dominique about the Gambit discussion between Veronica, Elena and Yvette.

But it can be assumed that Alessandra have at least some suspicion regarding Kane real role. This because she's really the one that make the more effort to charm him. What could perhaps be an answer to your question regarding her goal. While Dominique and Juliette fight to the lead of the group, she could be simply making her way to the very top, the effective control of the group ; because once again, one do not necessarily imply the other.

Agreed on Alessandra.

Veronica made clear that among what she said there were information that can be leaked, and information that can't.
Anyway, as Yvette said, if Juliette knew about this, she would already be raping Kane. And there's no doubt that it's what she would do. Yet, on the slave route she had him in her room after the meeting, and didn't tried. The chastity cage wouldn't have been a problem, she's a board member, Delilah would provide the key if asked to ; what wouldn't be difficult, since Delilah was here.

I agree with you that Juliette doesn't know yet.

I quote you: "[...] and the mysterious Gambit Queen who is very probably the 7th as yet undisclosed Karlsson board member."
"Very probably" is more than a possibility.

Very probably isn't the same thing as saying I'm certain. I also said that an attack on Olivia would not go down well with either 3 or 4 board members depending on whether Callista /the Gambit Queen is one or not. At this point I think it around 70% likely that the 7th board member will turn out to be Callista/the Gambit Queen. That's just a rough guesstimate and you are welcome to disagree.

Callista was a founder member. She's the only person, with Veronica, that Alexander ever trusted. She had at least one child with the only male who ever reached a Z rank. And she was able to hide from the Karlsson group for a very long time ; hiding so well that everyone except Veronica seem to believe in her death. She surely still have her way inside the Group and probably some loyal persons among the elders.

She was certainly able to hide from the Karlsson group for a long time. But it's not clear that she was never found as eventually the three children she raised were forced into the program. She may have been forced by Alexander Karlsson into an arrangement that forced her to leave her children before his death.

Replacing a deaf cleaner by one that hear perfectly isn't something really difficult. Not only they are totally masked, and so pretty anonymous, but anyway I'm sure that Veronica don't even look at them.

Veronica was aware that the cleaner was a spy but wasn't expecting the Gambit Queen to know the contents of the conversation. That was an intentional leak and Veronica wouldn't have arranged it if she didn't know who she was leaking the info to. Therefore since she wasn't aware that the GQ had a spy the cleaner was much more likely to have been Dominique's spy than the GQ's.

There's also the meetings. The mask are obviously here to keep the mystery for the players, since themselves know perfectly who is the other. But the recluses places for the meetings between two members of the Board, really ?

They all live near one to the others and have many occasions, and reasons, to meet every day. Plus, the masked daughter achieved to reach Kane bedroom, enter it, and leave something for him, without being noticed. It wouldn't be difficult for her to meet the Gambit Queen in her home if she was a member of the Board.
Therefore, why meeting in recluses places, where it would be suspicious if they are caught, when they have so much possibilities to meet without raising any suspicion ?

I understand where you're coming from. It does seem a little much at the moment, but I have faith in the author to pull it all together before the end.

And what if she was both sincere and faking it ?
Sincere because yes, she pass much of her time caring about the other, and with such sisters she can wonder if she isn't missing something they have in their selfish life. But also faking, because she wanted to test Kane, and see if he can be a good fit for her ?

It's possible. My conversation with you has sparked the thought that the leak is Veronica's way of giving her old ally Dominique advanced warning and an edge over Juliette while still following her father's and/or Callista's will by supporting Olivia. There is some sort of arrangement between the Gambit Queen and Veronica regarding Kane and Seth in addition or as an adjunct to the Gambit as the Gambit Queen mentioned that she had a price for her support.

As I said, so far what she know about the situation is that the male and female winner will end together. She support him for who his mother is, but what she expect from her future husband goes further than pure entertainment ; she have an endless supply of slaves for that.

As mentioned above, the spy was probably Dominique's, so I disagree here.

She's not impulsive specifically because she have a higher morality sense than Juliette. She's sadist, but not cruel, that why she can have a sweet even for someone she's torturing. Unless she's doing it because she think they deserve the wrath of her justice, she genuinely assume that they are enjoying it as much as her.
She probably only need a (relatively) small push to be put on the light side, and only express her sadism on person who are effectively masochist.

Oh I think Alessandra is plenty cruel as evidenced by her scene with the dehydrated man who was chained up and begging for water. There was also a hint dropped earlier on by Samantha in a conversation with Patricia when they were discussing Samantha's future job that Alessandra may be even crueler than Juliette.

 

[Sancho1969]

I don't think I follow you (but I'm neither the dev nor the modder so don't know why I'm shoving my oar in anyway ... ). I don't have the script to hand, but from memory the conditional is necessary because you only get the sis_team if your choice here matches the choice regarding Seth's fate.

We're speaking mostly the same language. I probably need to walk away from it for a few minutes. I'm so close to finalizing the mod after last night's beta and trying to hammer out the last details so I don't have to patch later. W/O Tess' input I'll just have to go with exactly as it's written and hope for the best. Thanks for all your input, it does help to air these things out sometimes so as not to miss the forest for the trees. Regards.

 

[The Ninja]

TessSadist here's another possible conditional bork in the 5b patch. Both [helpseth] & [fuckseth] have same conditional result under label sisdomjudgment to sis_team += 1. Reckon I'd point it out since it wouldn't be necessary to use a conditional at all if sis_team += 1 was going to be set regardless choice selected, making me think you might have had another intent. Regards.
View attachment 1456675

I may very well have missed something but I've yet to find a routing that by the time one gets to any of the judgement scenes that either [helpseth] or [fuckseth] isn't set to True.

Different choices though.

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[Deleted member 3042943]

For all who think Kane + Olivia might be a thing, stop it. Just because they're not biologically related, doesn't mean the fact that they grew up as brother and sister is thrown out the window. It would still be weird!!!!

 

[BigStuffedTiger]

I have to say it's interesting that it's possible to transition from the sub path (K4 and below) to the dom path (K5+) in this update but not the reverse. It's possible for a K5 to jump to K8 and a K7 to get dropped to K5. K5's can't be demoted, only promoted.

It's also interesting that an Olivia who feels supported by her sub brother will keep or promote her brother to K4 even if Delilah recommends a lower K3 or K2 rank, but won't upgrade him to K5 unless Delilah also recommends it. Clearly K5 is a big deal as mentioned in the story and Olivia won't go out on a limb by promoting even a K4 Kane who she likes over that line without support from a trainer.

I guess that also helps subs who want to stay on the sub path that have good relationships with Olivia stay on the sub path.

 

[Retromancer]

Because a porn game set in a femdom dystopia is normal. Would hate for anything weird to happen

 

[BigStuffedTiger]

Because a porn game set in a femdom dystopia is normal. Would hate for anything weird to happen

You mean like non biological siblings getting involved? Nope. Can't have that. That would be too weird. Now golden showers, human furniture and feeding people to sharks, that's all perfectly conventional. I do hope he was trying to be funny, because if he was the least bit serious I can't imagine his reaction after looking at some of the other threads here.