VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.1 Part I] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[IllDisposed]

What you write is logical, but if a mother has anything more important than her son, there is a problem,
because what's the point of saving humanity if in the meantime your son dies or becomes a degenerate servant, someone else's toy.

Because her son is a member of humanity, as are all 3 children she raised, and would die too if everyone else dies?

 

[kinkyshin]

What you write is logical, but if a mother has anything more important than her son, there is a problem,
because what's the point of saving humanity if in the meantime your son dies or becomes a degenerate servant, someone else's toy.

Of course Callista wants to save everyone, not just Kane... She's not a fucking psychopath lmao. Also, Kane isn't even her only child. She has a responsibility to not only help Kane, but Seth, and Olivia, and other people who are important to her as well like Cola and Veronica.

And, Kane is going to die anyways... because humanity is dying... she is literally giving him a chance to save himself AND save everyone. Not only that, but she seems to have a backup plan or two anyways in case Kane is a complete failure.

 

[fatki_chaddi]

What you write is logical, but if a mother has anything more important than her son, there is a problem,
because what's the point of saving humanity if in the meantime your son dies or becomes a degenerate servant, someone else's toy.

Well human psychology is inherently complex. The drive to protect those closest to someone can sometimes overshadow larger, abstract ideals, like saving humanity. The world we live in has countless positive and negative examples of such behavior.

 

[Hantol]

Of course Callista wants to save everyone, not just Kane... She's not a fucking psychopath lmao. Also, Kane isn't even her only child. She has a responsibility to not only help Kane, but Seth, and Olivia, and other people who are important to her as well like Cola and Veronica.

And, Kane is going to die anyways... because humanity is dying... she is literally giving him a chance to save himself AND save everyone. Not only that, but she seems to have a backup plan or two anyways in case Kane is a complete failure.

Thanks for the answers. I think each of our interpretations are valid. (from our individual point of view) It's okay if we disagree.
I still think Callista is one of the most apalling hypocritical character,(both in terms of actions and words) because for k1-k4 Kane, death itself is redemption. Callista can't put him out of his misery after what he's been through. So she can save humanity but not his son anymore.
Otherwise, what backup plans do you know about?

 

[Hantol]

Because her son is a member of humanity, as are all 3 children she raised, and would die too if everyone else dies?

What "humanity" could be saved? (a few million starving and vegetating unfortunates and a few hundred amoral controllers/managers headed by the 7 demonic board members) Besides who would be the possible leaders of the exodus? (Veronica, Olivia, Elena and maybe Callista they would surely create a true paradise for those they choose)
This opportunity is worth risking your son's life for.

 

[Stan5851]

Thanks for the answers. I think each of our interpretations are valid. (from our individual point of view) It's okay if we disagree.
I still think Callista is one of the most apalling hypocritical character,(both in terms of actions and words) because for k1-k4 Kane, death itself is redemption. Callista can't put him out of his misery after what he's been through. So she can save humanity but not his son anymore.
Otherwise, what backup plans do you know about?

Miles, please re-login.

But other than kidding, why should Callista be the one to blame for this? She as a mother gave the maximum knowledge, skills and abilities, she raised decent children (both Olivia and Kane). Her duty as a mother in that sense has been fully fulfilled. And then the following happens - we (the players) take control of Kane, who by nature is not inclined to obey and who has the courage to stand up for his brother and go to jail on false charges...And already there, in prison, we begin (on behalf of Kane) to decide how we should act in this or that case. So what is the mother's fault if the player decides to make Kane a crawling worm?

Players who allow Kane to be himself (i.e. a confident guy) have no such problems, and for them Callista is a good mother whose expectations he has fully met by going through the rehab program in less than a week, reaching K9, performing well and making himself respected. Well if someone doesn't like that Kane is suffering (I don't know 100% since I don't play the sub route) in the K1-K4 ranks, so what does that have to do with the mother if it's solely the “merit” of the player who voluntarily chose that path for himself?

 

[Nifferman]

Miles, please re-login.

But other than kidding, why should Callista be the one to blame for this? She as a mother gave the maximum knowledge, skills and abilities, she raised decent children (both Olivia and Kane). Her duty as a mother in that sense has been fully fulfilled. And then the following happens - we (the players) take control of Kane, who by nature is not inclined to obey and who has the courage to stand up for his brother and go to jail on false charges...And already there, in prison, we begin (on behalf of Kane) to decide how we should act in this or that case. So what is the mother's fault if the player decides to make Kane a crawling worm?

Players who allow Kane to be himself (i.e. a confident guy) have no such problems, and for them Callista is a good mother whose expectations he has fully met by going through the rehab program in less than a week, reaching K9, performing well and making himself respected. Well if someone doesn't like that Kane is suffering (I don't know 100% since I don't play the sub route) in the K1-K4 ranks, so what does that have to do with the mother if it's solely the “merit” of the player who voluntarily chose that path for himself?

True man even in game no one blames/praise Calista just Kane depending on what route u are.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Thanks for the answers. I think each of our interpretations are valid. (from our individual point of view) It's okay if we disagree.
I still think Callista is one of the most apalling hypocritical character,(both in terms of actions and words) because for k1-k4 Kane, death itself is redemption. Callista can't put him out of his misery after what he's been through. So she can save humanity but not his son anymore.
Otherwise, what backup plans do you know about?

Believe it or not, me and Stan have been over this for a couple of years, and honestly, it's a hard point to argue either way without all the information. It will take a few more flashbacks before we can determine one way or the other what type of person Callista is and what options she actually had.

 

[Maviarab]

Alright, day three...let's go for two bad girls today

Spoiler: The lovely and sexy....Dr. Eloise Chastain and the equally beautiful Erica

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[latex lvr]

Miles, please re-login.

But other than kidding, why should Callista be the one to blame for this? She as a mother gave the maximum knowledge, skills and abilities, she raised decent children (both Olivia and Kane). Her duty as a mother in that sense has been fully fulfilled. And then the following happens - we (the players) take control of Kane, who by nature is not inclined to obey and who has the courage to stand up for his brother and go to jail on false charges...And already there, in prison, we begin (on behalf of Kane) to decide how we should act in this or that case. So what is the mother's fault if the player decides to make Kane a crawling worm?

Players who allow Kane to be himself (i.e. a confident guy) have no such problems, and for them Callista is a good mother whose expectations he has fully met by going through the rehab program in less than a week, reaching K9, performing well and making himself respected. Well if someone doesn't like that Kane is suffering (I don't know 100% since I don't play the sub route) in the K1-K4 ranks, so what does that have to do with the mother if it's solely the “merit” of the player who voluntarily chose that path for himself?

I do agree with you in that it is us the players that are controlling Kane and to certain Aspects other's also. (ie we do make a few choices for the Karlsson sisters ect)

I don't necessarily blame Calista as yet, We still don't have enough information about her or her reasons for what she did. Except to say that she took Olivia with her when she left too protect Kane. We do know that all though Olivia grew up being loved and cared for by Calista, She did treat her differently to Kane and Seth and was a bit harsher on Olivia than the other 2.

However Calista is one of the foundling members of the Karlsson Group. It could be argued that it was because of Calista leaving Alexander, that he became lost. Calista was his love. Therefore by Calista leaving him turned him nasty and thus his 4 daughters were bought up the way they were.
If we look at the 4 children in the order they were born. We have Dominique who is the eldest Although she is quite a strong woman and does have evil tendencies she is a firm but fair woman. Next we have Veronica. I think deep down Veronica is basically a good woman and she is working behind the scenes to help humanity with her various projects. Yes it could be argued that she is the one who has developed the shock chips and the "pain serum" ect But I think she has done that so that she could try and control her Father and ultimately what the group does. She has no interest in running the organisation. (I also think that Calista perhaps had the biggest impact on Veronica because of their shared interest in science.)
Then we have when Olivia was born and Calista Leaving Alexander and thus when he became lost. We have Juliette born who is true Evil and the Same for Alesandra who also is evil but is also A spoilt Princess. These two have obviously has the biggest influence from Alexander on how they were brought up. I don't know where in that order Astrid fits in but I would guess she would be the youngest of all and therefore because Veronica is her (full) big sister and wanting to protect her from Alexander and the other sisters she arrange for her to be taken to Island 4. We don't know much about Astrid yet so hard to comment as to her character.

So based on all of this I feel that Calista does have to take some of the blame and certainly has some hard questions to answer. I also hope that when Kane and her do meet that it is will be a meaningful conversation and she answers those hard questions and not like what we have been getting in the game so far with questions being avoided or being told we are not ready to tell you yet, Also not a conversation where Kane is so pleased to see his mom that he doesn't ask her the difficult questions.

 

[Stan5851]

Alright, day three...let's go for two bad girls today
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Oh yes, Mav, they are beautiful, especially Eloise....But I'm wondering where the 1st and 3rd screenshots above are from? (and I'm not sure about the 2nd one). There must have been some new devlog from Tess that I missed for some reason..

 

[Maviarab]

Oh yes, Mav, they are beautiful, especially Eloise....But I'm wondering where the 1st and 3rd screenshots above are from? (and I'm not sure about the 2nd one). There must have been some new devlog from Tess that I missed for some reason..

First is from upcoming Part 2, third is from Part 1.

 

[Maviarab]

Apologies on the double post....but doesn't really belong in my reply to Stan:

You're all also forgetting a very important line after Kane's visit to the Mines (DomPath) where Dominique and Alessa take Kane for a spot of Jet Skiiing...

Alessa: You should yell at your mother from hiding you from us for so long.
Kane: Maybe, but maybe not....I don't know

Now remember...if Alessa is 'White Tips Ninja'...then she knows Callista is alive and well most likely....Does Kane actually know Callista might be alive? Why would Kane say that...if he thinks Callista died in the helicopter crash? We're told he was trained, she has a plan. Is Kane also a covert spy with knowledge like Olivia????

 

[Stan5851]

It could be argued that it was because of Calista leaving Alexander, that he became lost. Calista was his love. Therefore by Calista leaving him turned him nasty and thus his 4 daughters were bought up the way they were.

It is not Callista's fault that Alexander has become such a diabolically evil man. It's to be blamed on a group of mysterious and powerful women under whose heel Alexander himself has fallen...

Spoiler

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Also, I wouldn't be so quick to whitewash Alexander by making him out to be a one-woman romantic in love who adored Callista. This evil "romantic" fucked everything that moved and fucked a bunch of different women who bore him daughters. Yes, Callista was his true love, but what was Callista's fault if the first child he and Alexander had (apparently) died at birth? The guy's brains went crazy, and he found nothing better to do than try to fuck Elena too in order to get his coveted son...And he ended up just cheating on Callista, who caught them both having sex...So any way you look at it, Alexander's idiotic attempts to play eugenics and "breed a new, perfect heir" have only himself to blame.

But of course Callista has a lot of questions to give us answers to, and here I agree with what MilesEdgeworth writes, and we'll need more than one flashback and more than one heart-to-heart talk (between Kane and Callista) to draw conclusions about all of this and evaluate Callista's role in the story.

 

[Maviarab]

Also, I wouldn't be so quick to whitewash Alexander by making him out to be a one-woman romantic in love who adored Callista. This evil "romantic" fucked everything that moved and fucked a bunch of different women who bore him daughters. Yes, Callista was his true love, but what was Callista's fault if the first child he and Alexander had (apparently) died at birth? The guy's brains went crazy, and he found nothing better to do than try to fuck Elena too in order to get his coveted son...And he ended up just cheating on Callista, who caught them both having sex...So any way you look at it, Alexander's idiotic attempts to play eugenics and "breed a new, perfect heir" have only himself to blame.

More general musings I have written down...but relevent to part of your post....

Mothers???
Alessandra, Dominique & Juliette?
Who is their mother???

Alexander wanted 4 beautiful women (This is confirmed in-game)...was one woman the mother of both Jules/Alessa and Callista was supposed to be the 4th woman??. Or was Callista outside of these 4 woman??? Was she supposed to be the first but life got in the way? What about Dominique's mother? Was she one of the 4 fabled...but she was before the Gambit started...

So far we only have 2 women and 3 daughters confirmed!!

And we still have....Luke....that was the ultimate catalyst for Alexander going off the rails completely, Callista leaving him was just the icing on the cake...but then she did find him balls-deep inside Elena....her best friend...

 

[Stan5851]

First is from upcoming Part 2.

Mav, I realize that. I just can't figure out which of Tess's devlogs I'm missing.

 

[Maviarab]

Mav, I realize that. I just can't figure out which of Tess's devlogs I'm missing.

Oh jeez I don't know....maybe search my name in thread with the word mistress? Should bring up all the roadmap posts. I've been posting them since the very first sneak peaks came heh.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

It is not Callista's fault that Alexander has become such a diabolically evil man. It's to be blamed on a group of mysterious and powerful women under whose heel Alexander himself has fallen...

Spoiler

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Also, I wouldn't be so quick to whitewash Alexander by making him out to be a one-woman romantic in love who adored Callista. This evil "romantic" fucked everything that moved and fucked a bunch of different women who bore him daughters. Yes, Callista was his true love, but what was Callista's fault if the first child he and Alexander had (apparently) died at birth? The guy's brains went crazy, and he found nothing better to do than try to fuck Elena too in order to get his coveted son...And he ended up just cheating on Callista, who caught them both having sex...So any way you look at it, Alexander's idiotic attempts to play eugenics and "breed a new, perfect heir" have only himself to blame.

But of course Callista has a lot of questions to give us answers to, and here I agree with what MilesEdgeworth writes, and we'll need more than one flashback and more than one heart-to-heart talk (between Kane and Callista) to draw conclusions about all of this and evaluate Callista's role in the story.

I believe he idolized the shit out of Callista to the point where he had to have his blood intermingling with Callista, even if it was through later generations, because of his apparent love of eugenics; he believed the only way to create the perfect offspring was through her. I'm just speculating here, but I disagree with Veronica, where she thinks giving him a son would've given him what he wanted (unless Callista had a daughter, then it would be a different story). His endgame was always a descendant whose blood was his and Callista's.

I think his fucking all those beautiful women was his way of coping with the loss of the kid he had with Callista. He was totally lying to himself.

 

[Stan5851]

More general musings I have written down...but relevent to part of your post....

Mothers???
Alessandra, Dominique & Juliette?
Who is their mother???

Alexander wanted 4 beautiful women (This is confirmed in-game)...was one woman the mother of both Jules/Alessa and Callista was supposed to be the 4th woman??. Or was Callista outside of these 4 woman??? What about Dominique's mother? Was she one of the 4 fabled...but she was before the Gambit started...

So far we only have 2 women and 3 daughters confirmed!!

And we still have....Luke....that was the ultimate catalyst for Alexander going off the rails completely.

Mav, I don't have the answers to those questions yet.. Also, this is the first time I've heard that Alessa and Jules have the same mother (apparently I missed something).

 

[Maviarab]

Mav, I don't have the answers to those questions yet.. Also, this is the first time I've heard that Alessa and Jules have the same mother (apparently I missed something).

It was a question..not a statement

Regardless...one...or two women...came along after Callista left...while Elena and Yvette were still there....so did their mother(s) come along after...or...were they already there?