VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2 Test] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[DarkFencer1]

Man....... it's been a long time since we had that flashback, so I do wonder if Tess will ever consider going back to those flashbacks (or other parts of MC & Veronica's childhood memories together) to flesh them out more.
I'd personally love that to get to know more of their backstory.

Strongly agree, although I don't think there have been any other interactions together in the past. The connection is evident.

Spoiler: Some more... coincidences¿?

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I add a couple more images that help me, at least in perspective, to unveil the "mystery" of the mysterious ninja. And because I firmly believe that it is Veronica and not Alessandra that could have been the other great option in terms of real power.

When I finish dinner, or another day I have even more interesting clues / facts, although surely many have already noticed them.

Thanks

 

[Allan Trumbull]

What is Olivia's role here ?? She is more important for karlsson's group over mc ??

& Any idea about the use of k.pass While playing on dom + good path ?

 

[Sir.Fred]

Gotta love the fact that people are kicking around fan theories like it's Game of Thrones or something.

This game needs its own subreddit.

 

[JJJ84]

Strongly agree, although I don't think there have been any other interactions together in the past. The connection is evident.

Spoiler: Some more... coincidences¿?

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I add a couple more images that help me, at least in perspective, to unveil the "mystery" of the mysterious ninja. And because I firmly believe that it is Veronica and not Alessandra that could have been the other great option in terms of real power.

When I finish dinner, or another day I have even more interesting clues / facts, although surely many have already noticed them.

Thanks

Yeah, fleshing out more of MC & Veronica's childhood memories if they're available would be a very welcome addition, but if there aren't any more, then I'm fine that way as well. Either way, there feels to be a strong foundation of relationship between them.

Yeah, the more I'm looking back at it the more I'm becoming adamant that the one in the Kunoichi Ninja outfit is Veronica.

From the whole "out discussions at the park and trailer", and "flexibility in morality" remarks by the Gambit Queen, as well as the obvious appearance (that little Veronica + Alessandra pic together you added together as you've pointed out has Alessandra standing a bit behind Veronica, also Veronica seems to be slightly leaning forward [so obviously Veronica is a lot taller than Alessandra]).
Just far too much evidence until now which points to it being Veronica than anyone else.

One thing that puzzles me is, what was Kiyomi doing on that cliff in the mask?
Was she spying on Veronica or Gambit Queen on Juliette's or Dominique's orders (since those two are in alliance together now)? Or was she guarding Veronica?
Though if she was spying on Veronica or Gambit Queen, would she even know who she's spying on (considering they're both in masks)?
I mean I guess it can be the other way around and she's keeping an eye on Veronica (and is wearing a mask herself to conceal her identity) and is hiding at a sort of high vantage view to get a clear view of possible threats to the mistress.

Yet with the Vipers (I hope I got the name correct, you know. Karlsson Group's Elite female assassins group, Kiyomi, Chanel etc etc), with some of them I'm never too sure where their allegiences lie.
Unless it's Chanel. I mean, she even made it adamantly clear to MC (when MC goes to Veronica should the player pick her as a sponsor) that she has a fierce loyalty towards Veronica (above anyone else, probably), but with every other Viper member, with the ongoing power struggle between the sisters whose side will these elite assassins take (if they're made to choose one over another)?


p.s. Love your little analysis add ins (with the speech bubbles too) with the scenes from the game by the way, thanks!!

 

[JJJ84]

What is Olivia's role here ?? She is more important for karlsson's group over mc ??

& Any idea about the use of k.pass While playing on dom + good path ?

Dude, you're basically asking for full spoilers of the game.
Just play the game and find out yourself (unless you want someone to just spoil it all for you lol).

 

[Allan Trumbull]

Dude, you're basically asking for full spoilers of the game.
Just play the game and find out yourself (unless you want someone to just spoil it all for you lol).

I played it. Finished all the available contents. Very confusing & i don't mind spoiler

 

[Innocience]

Yet with the Vipers (I hope I got the name correct, you know. Karlsson Group's Elite female assassins group, Kiyomi, Chanel etc etc), with some of them I'm never too sure where their allegiences lie.
Unless it's Chanel. I mean, she even made it adamantly clear to MC (when MC goes to Veronica should the player pick her as a sponsor) that she has a fierce loyalty towards Veronica (above anyone else, probably), but with every other Viper member, with the ongoing power struggle between the sisters whose side will these elite assassins take (if they're made to choose one over another)?

I had to make a chart to keep track of all the background info we get on the chars. If you go back about 30 pages, shortly after version 5's release a lot of great speculations and points have already been made.

About the Vipers: Kiyomi (Viper Leader, implied Veronica allegiance, knows about the gambit by necessity), Erica (K2 Security), Scarlett (close to Juliette), Delilah (Cartel, rich), Sonya (implied Dominique allegiance), Chanel (rich, Elena's niece), Patricia (was a trainee, reports to Grymm Guidinna).

I've been trying to figure out how the actual structure works within the company. It's made clear that Katsumi rose from K4 to Z1, Kiyomi has the qualifications to become Zx, but is denied / chooses not to for unexplained reasons, Cassandra is demeaned by Alessandra for not being a Z executive, Junko seems below even most other employees (or Z executive priviledges of Kiyomi come into play in Dom Route)
There's a good chance Tess hasn't put that much thought into the actual hierarchy and by her own admission, she thinks of K and Z ranks in broader ranges. But I think Delilah's cartel connection and Tess' hints about that going to play a role will have some form of impact as well as Kiyomi being kept at her rank.

 

[JJJ84]

I played it. Finished all the available contents. Very confusing & i don't mind spoiler

If you need an explanation, then here:

Callista, MC's biological mom was (though I think "is", since I think she's still alive) the most important woman of Karlsson Group's previous Head, Alexander Karlsson.
Olivia, she is the daughter of Alexander Karlsson, yet the mother is unknown (whether it's Callista or not, it is yet uncertain since nothing concrete has been revealed yet. But at this point, I'm leaning more towards it's not Callista, given the DNA result she got compared with Seth).
Kane, the MC, is not related to Alexander Karlsson at all, but he is the child of Callista & a Karlsson Group's employee (likely executive, though yet again, nothing concrete is given)

So Olivia, being a daughter of Alexander Karlsson of course is more important for the Karlsson Group than the MC (same with all other Karlsson daughters, Veronica, Alessandra, Dominique, Juliette).

Having said that, despite not having the Karlsson lineage, MC is still very important cause Alexander's likely dying wish (due to his love for Callista) for the future of the company is for it to be run by someone with his and Callista's blood in them (so either his & Callista's child, or as Veronica states in the update here, grandchild, "skipping a generation").


Regarding KPass, MC still has it. If player is on the Good, Dom path and successfully moves up the rank (I did, from K5 to K7), and answers right to Olivia's questions (depending on which way you played her route, good or evil), then as a reward Olivia will give a reward to MC (in which MC can choose to either demote or save one of his Pod's member, Jake) without having to use his KPass.

 

[Allan Trumbull]

If you need an explanation, then here:

Callista, MC's biological mom was (though I think "is", since I think she's still alive) the most important woman of previous Karlsson Group's Head, Alexander Karlsson.
Olivia, she is the daughter of Alexander Karlsson, yet the mother is unknown (whether it's Callista or not, it is yet uncertain since nothing concrete has been revealed yet. But at this point, I'm leaning more towards it's not Callista, given the DNA result she got compared with Seth).
Kane, the MC, is not related to Alexander Karlsson at all, but he is the child of Callista & a Karlsson Group's employee (likely executive, though yet again, nothing concrete is given)

So Olivia, being a daughter of Alexander Karlsson of course is more important for the Karlsson Group than the MC (same with all other Karlsson daughters, Veronica, Alessandra, Dominique, Juliette).

Having said that, despite not having the Karlsson lineage, MC is still very important cause Alexander's likely dying wish (due to his love for Callista) for the future of the company is for it to be run by someone with his and Callista's blood in them (so either his & Callista's child, or as Veronica states in the update here, grandchild, "skipping a generation").


Regarding KPass, MC still has it. If player is on the Good, Dom path and successfully moves up the rank (I did, from K5 to K7), and answers right to Olivia's questions (depending on which way you played her route, good or evil), then as a reward Olivia will give a reward to MC (in which MC can choose to either demote or save one of his Pod's member, Jake) without having to use his KPass.

Thanks for Info. Appreciated.
& i Think MY mc is K8 Now. I Forgot

 

[Innocience]

I hope you don't mind me elaborating on your post:

Olivia, she is the daughter of Alexander Karlsson, yet the mother is unknown (whether it's Callista or not, it is yet uncertain since nothing concrete has been revealed yet. But at this point, I'm leaning more towards it's not Callista, given the DNA result she got compared with Seth).

It's all but confirmed by now that Elena is Olivia's mother.

Spoiler: Hints about that spoiler

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Regarding KPass, MC still has it. If player is on the Good, Dom path and successfully moves up the rank (I did, from K5 to K7), and answers right to Olivia's questions (depending on which way you played her route, good or evil), then as a reward Olivia will give a reward to MC (in which MC can choose to either demote or save one of his Pod's member, Jake) without having to use his KPass.

The KPass has no use yet..

 

[Mememe621]

Olivia, she is the daughter of Alexander Karlsson, yet the mother is unknown (whether it's Callista or not, it is yet uncertain since nothing concrete has been revealed yet. But at this point, I'm leaning more towards it's not Callista, given the DNA result she got compared with Seth).

I can’t remember if it’s actually stated explicitly, but it’s at least very, very heavily implied that Olivia’s mother is Elena.

 

[Mememe621]

It's all but confirmed by now that Elena is Olivia's mother.

Spoiler: Hints about that spoiler

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I can’t remember the exact wording, but in the first scene with the Gambit Queen and the Ninja, there is a comment about how they’re not sure what Elena will do because of her child. When I first saw that scene I thought they meant that Kane was Elena’s child, but clearly they’re referring to someone else.

 

[JJJ84]

I had to make a chart to keep track of all the background info we get on the chars. If you go back about 30 pages, shortly after version 5's release a lot of great speculations and points have already been made.

About the Vipers: Kiyomi (Viper Leader, implied Veronica allegiance, knows about the gambit by necessity), Erica (K2 Security), Scarlett (close to Juliette), Delilah (Cartel, rich), Sonya (implied Dominique allegiance), Chanel (rich, Elena's niece), Patricia (was a trainee, reports to Grymm Guidinna).

I've been trying to figure out how the actual structure works within the company. It's made clear that Katsumi rose from K4 to Z1, Kiyomi has the qualifications to become Zx, but is denied / chooses not to for unexplained reasons, Cassandra is demeaned by Alessandra for not being a Z executive, Junko seems below even most other employees (or Z executive priviledges of Kiyomi come into play in Dom Route)
There's a good chance Tess hasn't put that much thought into the actual hierarchy and by her own admission, she thinks of K and Z ranks in broader ranges. But I think Delilah's cartel connection and Tess' hints about that going to play a role will have some form of impact as well as Kiyomi being kept at her rank.

You know what, it's been a long time since we saw several of the Viper members that I had forgotten what several of them look like (only ones I remember now are Kiyomi, Erica, Delilah, & Chanel, but only cause they showed up in this update. Yeah, I know. I'm ashamed, ).
Totally forgotten about Delilah's Cartel connection as well.

Chanel, I'm sure Veronica has her absolute loyalty, and if Kiyomi is loyal to Veronica also, that leaves the rest.
Though with Delilah being super close with Chanel, would she veer off to supporting someone else opposing her BFF? Hmmmm

Following is just purely hypothetically speaking of course, but if conflict with struggle for power gets worse between the daughters, and one of the parties are driven into a corner (e.g. Dominique + Juliette alliance), will they attempt a coup?

If the situation comes to that, even if Kiyomi and Chanel are on Veronica's side I'd assume it will be very difficult if all other Vipers are on Dominique + Juliette alliance (and to get Delilah on their side, perhaps a wedge may be driven between them, to gain that cartel connection.
It's just intriguing to know where their loyalties will all lie when push comes to shove.

 

[Innocience]

I can’t remember the exact wording, but in the first scene with the Gambit Queen and the Ninja, there is a comment about how they’re not sure what Elena will do because of her child. When I first saw that scene I thought they meant that Kane was Elena’s child, but clearly they’re referring to someone else.

I completely forgot about that scene. Yeah, you're absolutely right. The line is:"But she knows now...how can she not try to help her own child?"

Though with Delilah being super close with Chanel, would see veer off to supporting someone else opposing her BFF?

I'm having a hard time getting a read on the relationships between most employees. A lot of them seem fake and solely based on a mutual pleasure of hurting others.
If Katsumi's words are to be believed and her rise from K4 to Z1 is similar to what Kane's going through in the K4 route, and we also assume that exploiting others is expected to hold a high rank in the company, and we also assume some of the employees had to go through similar experiences themselves (Patricia most likely as a poor person; we also see an example of a preliminary evaluation in Hyori from a rich woman's perspective), I find it likely that a lot of these "BFFs" would sell each other out at a moment's notice.

If the situation comes to that, even if Kiyomi and Chanel are on Veronica's side I'd assume it will be very difficult if all other Vipers are on Dominique + Juliette alliance (and to get Delilah on their side, perhaps a wedge may be driven between them, to gain that cartel connection.
It's just intriguing to know where their loyalties will all lie when push comes to shove.

My thoughts as well.
I can see the bond being closer to sister-in-arms within the viper group. But unless this whole conflict remains more focused on intrigue and political powerplays rather than open warfare and assassinations I see a good chance the vipers will face each other in conflict.

 

[DarkFencer1]

One thing that puzzles me is, what was Kiyomi doing on that cliff in the mask?
Was she spying on Veronica or Gambit Queen on Juliette's or Dominique's orders (since those two are in alliance together now)? Or was she guarding Veronica?
Though if she was spying on Veronica or Gambit Queen, would she even know who she's spying on (considering they're both in masks)?
I mean I guess it can be the other way around and she's keeping an eye on Veronica (and is wearing a mask herself to conceal her identity) and is hiding at a sort of high vantage view to get a clear view of possible threats to the mistress.

Yet with the Vipers (I hope I got the name correct, you know. Karlsson Group's Elite female assassins group, Kiyomi, Chanel etc etc), with some of them I'm never too sure where their allegiences lie.
Unless it's Chanel. I mean, she even made it adamantly clear to MC (when MC goes to Veronica should the player pick her as a sponsor) that she has a fierce loyalty towards Veronica (above anyone else, probably), but with every other Viper member, with the ongoing power struggle between the sisters whose side will these elite assassins take (if they're made to choose one over another)?

About Kiyomi, I honestly think is still a bit hasty to know who she really responds to. Although for some reason my common sense tells me that she doesn't necessarily have identical loyalty to her sister Katsumi.
The only thing she has made clear so far is that she abides by a very strict and personal code of honor.
There is some evidence that it apparently seems to respond more to Veronica, after all, what kind of group of assasins (or at least Holliwood has taught us that) can survive without the right toys and tools, all essential elements for the tasks. ' of the office ', and almost all of them come from Veronica's department, either in terms of material elements or information. That is, if I were the leader of the team, I would certainly want to keep the chief who provides weapons and intelligence especially happy and not necessarily those who sell potatos or manage administrative matters. So personally, as Kiyomi indicates in the attached image, at least in her position I would know that spitting up on the boss who knows and sees everything can be too high a risk.

Spoiler: Remember Seth!

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About Chanel, I think her loyalty is primarily to Elena, and maybe secondarily to Veronica and Alessandra. It's not that she don't respect the other 2 sisters, but I see Chanel as someone extremely intelligent (as well as hot) and she knows well which is the most powerful group within the various alliances and internal divisions. However, I don't know if I really express her loyalty to someone so openly. The one that worries me a lot is precisely Katsumi, who I think plays 2-pronged approach, on the one hand he says and swears to be totally loyal to Elena (let's say to the 'Classic' Elena) but if one tries to go the 'redemption' route for Elena and chooses to be dominant but good, as with Olivia, Katsumi is very disappointed, on the other hand if one plays more evil, then one can see that deep down Katsumy is extremely loyal to Juliette, like Samanta and that she just make good use of his plays and connections to get to Z1. I do not know, he is a character that I would like that in the long term receives what he deserves in case it is obviously shown that he is playing unfairly with a member of the board, especially if he is betraying Elena, and Elena is sooo good to punish disloyalty.

 

[lost1979]

About Chanel, I think her loyalty is primarily to Elena, and maybe secondarily to Veronica and Alessandra

Chanel is Elena's niece. It would make sense that Chanel is loyal to Elena unless Olivia is Elena's daughter as we all expected. It would change their relationship because of Elena will definitely pick her own daughter between Olivia and Chanel.

 

[JJJ84]

I noticed several people getting promoted to K8, and I only got K7 in my first playthrough so took a look at the walkthrough again.

Found that for one of decisions I incorrectly didn't make Sis_Team+1 decision, hence fell short.
Went back and did it again (ctrl fast skip!), and now I get to start from K8 with the next update.

I have to say, with this game, its walkthrough always is a necessity (and even with WT, one can miss something with a blink of an eye).


Also I think Katsumi mentioned before that biggest hurdles in rank promotion are rising from K4 to K5, and K8 to K9, so it's really gonna be interesting the challenges the MC will be put through on K8.

 

[dking239]

K9 to K10 is the final roadblock

 

[NukaCola]

I got K8 in my first playthrough. Being Juliette follower paid off

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

While the case for veronica is very compelling even with the sprites. Still leaves a few things unexplained:
1. Why does Alessandra trust pat more than veronica does. Especially since the mystery woman was shown talking to her.
2. Alessandra is the only impartial sister in the game. Shes the only sister that doesnt have a sponsor option with Kane. Beyond that, even veronica appears to be pushing olivia at the moment.
3. During the test, the only way to get alessandra points is to answer the most company oriented answers.

Maybe theres two different women, but still there's definitely enough room for doubt to not close the door on alessandra.