VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2 Test] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[Maviarab]

I've always wanted to ask you guys who play the sub routes. How can crawling on your knees and humiliating yourself be an act of showing a romantic relationship to a character? No, I get that you like femdom from a roleplay fetish perspective, but where is "romance" in that equation?

Is that really any/much different to the opposite...male dom with female submissive?

Sure the lines can be blurred and I could discuss this topic literally until the cows come home and fill this thread full of talk, discussion and opinions (you may recall me mentioning myself being a dom of almost 30 years now). For me, a D/s relationship cannot exist without romance. Now I understand what we have in KG is slightly different, though also being fair, the relationships are barely beginning at the moment.

D/s is 95% pyschological...a submissive puts trust in their dom. They allow their dom to be a dom. There is great emotion, respect, trust and honesty in that relationship. That can only come with time...and with that closeness, that connection, that state of being...comes romantic feelings also. How and what the dom and their sub conduct in things is down to them. It does not lessen nor diminish the romantic relationship. Why I refuse to believe people when they claim they are sub trainers etc. Utter bollox. You cannot train a sub, except for yourself. Because of everything I just stated. It's impossible to train a submissive for someone else because they are only allowing you to do what you do, because of the trust and respect. Why would they respect and trust the person you're 'training' them for? Doesn't work that way. It's also like all the fake and wannabe doms and subs out there (especially on the net, such sites as Reddit etc). A bit of kinky sex...a dom and a sub does very much not make. Being either is very much a state of mind, a state of being, what and who you are.

Slaves, are a completely different kettle of fish (as we say here in the UK). A slave has no voice, no opinion and no say. There is little to no romance there. Most slaves do what they are told out of fear or punishment. There is little respect there or even emotional connection. So in your question...for a slave, I completely agree with what you are asking...a submissive, very different thing.

Now again, to reiterate, other than the slave aspect, the world of KG is very different to our own, however, considering the secret sub routes, take Alessandra for example, she requires a strong Kane, she wants a strong dominant Kane for all outward appearances. She cannot be seen with what is perceived as a weak man. She wants someone to love and respect her as she is and I assume vice-versa too. In private however, very different story...and I'm sure the love and connection you would share with her (as a sub in private) is immense.


Edit: I probably rambled too much then and went too far away from the question/comment you made so....apologies, it's just a topic I am naturally very passionate about.

 

[drdredit]

Honestly, nothing in this game represents BDSM relationships. Its fantasy sadism and torture. Hell, the women even murder the slaves.

 

[depeche mode]

evil dom olivia kane pairing ohwee. slaves are going to be happy that they are going to escape torture will all the fucking those two will be doing lmao

 

[Silver_Crow117]

I've always wanted to ask you guys who play the sub routes. How can crawling on your knees and humiliating yourself be an act of showing a romantic relationship to a character? No, I get that you like femdom from a roleplay fetish perspective, but where is "romance" in that equation?

You gotta remember, there’s always two sides of a coin… and in this case, for subs specifically… Romancing/serving and slave sides of femdom…. For KG, Romancing characters as a sub (to say it short) means that both parties share romantic feelings for each other, but there’s also hierarchy to it where the female is in charge and the male enjoys being under her (you can vice versa with KaneDom and Sub female characters). The other side of the coin, is the most recognizable side of the sub relationship is slave… obviously this is where the female is the absolute ruler in the ordeal… some females are more sadistic than others…

for what Miss Tess specifically, “Sub Kane romance/other (slave/servant): Olivia, Elena, Veronica, Juliette, Alessandra, Dominique, Katsumi, Junko” -
Romance/Servant type of sub relationships most likely are, Veronica, Junko, Elena, and Olivia (depending on our choices)…
Meanwhile the more Femdom style of relationship will most likely be Alessandra, Dominique (servant/Femdom), Juliette…

also from what miss tess said -“Not disclosed but hard to explain: Kiyomi, Phoebe, Chanel, Delilah”… Most likely will be some type of relationship dynamic revolving around sub as well…
Note: didn’t discuss Secret sub… since it’s self explanatory… but I will say that some of these sub relationships aren’t just being a “sub”… certain characters will want certain attributes from your character… for example… Veronica will have some sort of RO Sub relationships but she would want your Kane to be also Knowledgable, Critical, Nice… Ect… Same will most likely be with Elena… every character relationship requirements is different… I hope that helps HAHA

 

[Stan5851]

Is that really any/much different to the opposite...male dom with female submissive?

Sure the lines can be blurred and I could discuss this topic literally until the cows come home and fill this thread full of talk, discussion and opinions (you may recall me mentioning myself being a dom of almost 30 years now). For me, a D/s relationship cannot exist without romance. Now I understand what we have in KG is slightly different, though also being fair, the relationships are barely beginning at the moment.

D/s is 95% pyschological...a submissive puts trust in their dom. They allow their dom to be a dom. There is great emotion, respect, trust and honesty in that relationship. That can only come with time...and with that closeness, that connection, that state of being...comes romantic feelings also. How and what the dom and their sub conduct in things is down to them. It does not lessen nor diminish the romantic relationship. Why I refuse to believe people when they claim they are sub trainers etc. Utter bollox. You cannot train a sub, except for yourself. Because of everything I just stated. It's impossible to train a submissive for someone else because they are only allowing you to do what you do, because of the trust and respect. Why would they respect and trust the person you're 'training' them for? Doesn't work that way. It's also like all the fake and wannabe doms and subs out there (especially on the net, such sites as Reddit etc). A bit of kinky sex...a dom and a sub does very much not make. Being either is very much a state of mind, a state of being, what and who you are.

Slaves, are a completely different kettle of fish (as we say here in the UK). A slave has no voice, no opinion and no say. There is little to no romance there. Most slaves do what they are told out of fear or punishment. There is little respect there or even emotional connection. So in your question...for a slave, I completely agree with what you are asking...a submissive, very different thing.

Now again, to reiterate, other than the slave aspect, the world of KG is very different to our own, however, considering the secret sub routes, take Alessandra for example, she requires a strong Kane, she wants a strong dominant Kane for all outward appearances. She cannot be seen with what is perceived as a weak man. She wants someone to love and respect her as she is and I assume vice-versa too. In private however, very different story...and I'm sure the love and connection you would share with her (as a sub in private) is immense.


Edit: I probably rambled too much then and went too far away from the question/comment you made so....apologies, it's just a topic I am naturally very passionate about.

I agree (in general) with what you wrote, but it could work in the real world, where a loving couple practices BDSM, with predetermined rules of behaviour and delegating responsibility to the dominant for how the submissive will feel. It's all true, yes, it's a psychological thing, there's no question about it.I was getting ready to write the traditional wall of text, but I'll save both yours and my time and just quote the author.

Honestly, nothing in this game represents BDSM relationships. Its fantasy sadism and torture. Hell, the women even murder the slaves.

Really, the wall of text hasn't gone anywhere, except shorter..)

In KG, most relationships are hypertrophied and there is not even a whiff of the famous "safe, sane and consensual". Moreover, I think that in KaneDom relationships, too, it's worth separating a truly romantic relationship from simple kink sex. There's no romance in fucking some a defenceless slave Amy with her head pressed to the floor because she didn't choose that fate and we're just taking advantage of her because we can. So if we talk about romance in KG, in my opinion (from the dominant's point of view), it's quite little and that's why it's more valuable, because in all other cases (at least at the current moment of time) it's just sex.

The only real romantic paths I see so far are between KaneDom+Veronica and KaneDom+Junko (love). Both paths have beautiful romantic scenes, both paths have the prospect of a relationship developing. Both paths demonstrate an emotional connection between the partners, especially in Veronica's case. There might be something similar between KaneDom and Olivia if Tess prefers the slow burn rather than forcing the relationship. Everything else, well, I wouldn't call it romance (neither with Dominique nor even more so with Juliette). Maybe in the future, if/when we see the development of KaneDom & good Dominique, something will change, but for now there is no special romance in their relationship (imo).

Alessandra - well you could manoeuvre here, but her "sub in the bedroom and dominant in public" requirements are very specific and unlikely to suit pure doms. And although my KaneDom is developing a relationship with her and her girl mate, there's no romance involved - it's more like fuck buddies with various perversions with no further romantic prospects. Maybe the subs have these rare romances too (as in the case of relationship of KaneDom+Veronica and KD+Junko), but only the subs can know about that, so if they have it, well, then those guys are lucky too.

To summarise, I'll say the following. Real romance is not born (imo) in BDSM relationships, but just the opposite - BDSM relationships between partners who already love each other are an additional layer of relationship development, expanding the boundaries of permissible and the degree of deepest trust in each other. I.e. BDSM (imo) is not the root cause, but a consequence of the fact that people love each other enough to trust each other even more in role-playing games of power exchange.

 

[Silver_Crow117]

I agree (in general) with what you wrote, but it could work in the real world, where a loving couple practices BDSM, with predetermined rules of behaviour and delegating responsibility to the dominant for how the submissive will feel. It's all true, yes, it's a psychological thing, there's no question about it.I was getting ready to write the traditional wall of text, but I'll save both yours and my time and just quote the author.

Really, the wall of text hasn't gone anywhere, except shorter..)

In KG, most relationships are hypertrophied and there is not even a whiff of the famous "safe, sane and consensual". Moreover, I think that in KaneDom relationships, too, it's worth separating a truly romantic relationship from simple kink sex. There's no romance in fucking some a defenceless slave Amy with her head pressed to the floor because she didn't choose that fate and we're just taking advantage of her because we can. So if we talk about romance in KG, in my opinion (from the dominant's point of view), it's quite little and that's why it's more valuable, because in all other cases (at least at the current moment of time) it's just sex.

The only real romantic paths I see so far are between KaneDom+Veronica and KaneDom+Junko (love). Both paths have beautiful romantic scenes, both paths have the prospect of a relationship developing. Both paths demonstrate an emotional connection between the partners, especially in Veronica's case. There might be something similar between KaneDom and Olivia if Tess prefers the slow burn rather than forcing the relationship. Everything else, well, I wouldn't call it romance (neither with Dominique nor even more so with Juliette). Maybe in the future, if/when we see the development of KaneDom & good Dominique, something will change, but for now there is no special romance in their relationship (imo).

Alessandra - well you could manoeuvre here, but her "sub in the bedroom and dominant in public" requirements are very specific and unlikely to suit pure doms. And although my KaneDom is developing a relationship with her and her girl mate, there's no romance involved - it's more like fuck buddies with various perversions with no further romantic prospects. Maybe the subs have these rare romances too (as in the case of relationship of KaneDom+Veronica and KD+Junko), but only the subs can know about that, so if they have it, well, then those guys are lucky too.

To summarise, I'll say the following. Real romance is not born (imo) in BDSM relationships, but just the opposite - BDSM relationships between partners who already love each other are an additional layer of relationship development, expanding the boundaries of permissible and the degree of deepest trust in each other. I.e. BDSM (imo) is not the root cause, but a consequence of the fact that people love each other enough to trust each other even more in role-playing games of power exchange.

Romantic scenes yet doesn’t mean that they don’t exist in terms of KG (speaking to sub players)… for example, Tess herself that Veronica will have a Romantic sub relationship… this can be even more prevalent since Kane and Veronica met as children… Kane has yet to realize who Veronica is on the sub path…Furthermore, like I said before, she doesn’t want a plain submissive like some other characters… she actually wants someone knowledgeable and nice… like we really haven’t seen any of the sub in paths in depth at this point in the game… the only really expanded ones are Juliette’s and Dominique/Junko sponsorships and there not really in depth yet…(and I’ve mentioned what paths those two characters along with Junko are primarily)… and that last part of what you said is very situational… I’ve seen the root of interest (BDSM) connect people who were just strangers in the beginning to eventually develop into romantic feelings… so I wouldn’t say it just plainly as it is…

 

[Stan5851]

All right, guys.) This is top secret, from trusted sources that not even Tess knows about. This is how it's gonna be!

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[Maviarab]

All right, guys.) This is top secret, from trusted sources that not even Tess knows about. This is how it's gonna be!

Spoiler

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[Stan5851]

Romantic scenes yet doesn’t mean that they don’t exist in terms of KG (speaking to sub players)… for example, Tess herself that Veronica will have a Romantic sub relationship… this can be even more prevalent since Kane and Veronica met as children… Kane has yet to realize who Veronica is on the sub path…Furthermore, like I said before, she doesn’t want a plain submissive like some other characters… she actually wants someone knowledgeable and nice… like we really haven’t seen any of the sub in paths in depth at this point in the game… the only really expanded ones are Juliette’s and Dominique/Junko sponsorships and there not really in depth yet…(and I’ve mentioned what paths those two characters along with Junko are primarily)… and that last part of what you said is very situational… I’ve seen the root of interest (BDSM) connect people who were just strangers in the beginning to eventually develop into romantic feelings… so I wouldn’t say it just plainly as it is…

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[MilesEdgeworth]

All right, guys.) This is top secret, from trusted sources that not even Tess knows about. This is how it's gonna be!

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Let's be real. Dom Kane will still be all : is she hitting on me? Can't be cuz she's actually my sister

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Romantic scenes yet doesn’t mean that they don’t exist in terms of KG (speaking to sub players)… for example, Tess herself that Veronica will have a Romantic sub relationship… this can be even more prevalent since Kane and Veronica met as children… Kane has yet to realize who Veronica is on the sub path…Furthermore, like I said before, she doesn’t want a plain submissive like some other characters… she actually wants someone knowledgeable and nice… like we really haven’t seen any of the sub in paths in depth at this point in the game… the only really expanded ones are Juliette’s and Dominique/Junko sponsorships and there not really in depth yet…(and I’ve mentioned what paths those two characters along with Junko are primarily)… and that last part of what you said is very situational… I’ve seen the root of interest (BDSM) connect people who were just strangers in the beginning to eventually develop into romantic feelings… so I wouldn’t say it just plainly as it is… View attachment 3166049

Damnit Alessandra was my no.2 :s looks like I'm all in on evil olivia at this point, esp if I can make her a sub

 

[spenk]

Nice game but I do not like death scenes (nobody needs this) and there is way to much foot play in this game.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

If you don't want death scenes don't play dom/evil. Besides you get warned a lot before the death scenes so they're very much avoidable

 

[Don Sucio]

Let's be real. Dom Kane will still be all : is she hitting on me? Can't be cuz she's actually my sister

It´s sad but real , Kane has been very clusmy with all the clues and things Olivia and the other sisters has been doing around him, only in the towel scene when Olivia tells Kane to dry her is very obvious she wants to fuck him or she is planning to be more than "brothers"

I suppose is the magic of the script.

 

[Maviarab]

It´s sad but real , Kane has been very clusmy with all the clues and things Olivia and the other sisters has been doing around him, only in the towel scene when Olivia tells Kane to dry her is very obvious she wants to fuck him or she is planning to be more than "brothers"

I suppose is the magic of the script.

LMAO guys.

To be fair though yeah...it's a good job he 1. Male and 2. Of Callista's blood...because other than those two things...he doesn't really seem to have a whole lot going for him at times hehe.

 

[lorkdubo]

It´s sad but real , Kane has been very clusmy with all the clues and things Olivia and the other sisters has been doing around him, only in the towel scene when Olivia tells Kane to dry her is very obvious she wants to fuck him or she is planning to be more than "brothers"

I suppose is the magic of the script.

Pretty obvious Olivia has been playing the long game based on the flashback saying she would die for him. That's why, "princess eyes" was it? Are points meant for Kane/MC than Olivia in my opinion.

 

[Stan5851]

It´s sad but real , Kane has been very clusmy with all the clues and things Olivia and the other sisters has been doing around him, only in the towel scene when Olivia tells Kane to dry her is very obvious she wants to fuck him or she is planning to be more than "brothers"

I suppose is the magic of the script.

It's worth noting that we have no idea what happened before this scene. It's entirely possible that the "great revelation" has already happened, and Kane at this point (at the spa/pool) already knows that Olivia is not his sister. At least that knowledge could serve as a great excuse for his boner, hehe.

 

[Maviarab]

It's worth noting that we have no idea what happened before this scene. It's entirely possible that the "great revelation" has already happened, and Kane at this point (at the spa/pool) already knows that Olivia is not his sister. At least that knowledge could serve as a great excuse for his boner, hehe.

Yeah could be, like I said, if this is the dom route as you suggest...a lot must happen from where we are...to get to that point (which seems to me is a very suggestive scene).

 

[agelastos]

Nice game but I do not like death scenes (nobody needs this)

I guess that makes me Nobody.

 

[Gamer8n8]

Fan art -