RPGM Completed Karryn's Prison [v1.3.0.102 FULL + DLCs] [Remtairy]

[Purple_Heart]

It's honestly remarkable how any game that receives even mild criticism for poor balance instantly attracts a flood of troll replies across every platform. And yet, almost none of them contribute anything meaningful to the actual discussion.

 

[Seven Soft]

It's honestly remarkable how any game that receives even mild criticism for poor balance instantly attracts a flood of troll replies across every platform. And yet, almost none of them contribute anything meaningful to the actual discussion.

I feel like there are too many varying yardsticks as to what constitutes "good balance", especially in games with broad array of mechanics. And players will tend to decide for themselves what is "good balance" based on their own gameplay preferences (not that it is a problem when it comes to one's own enjoyment/experience), such as covertly self-defining win conditions.

For example:

1. Someone would define the game's objective as "to subjugate the entire prison as quickly as possible without getting sullied", and hence their parameters of "balance" will be based on that; they will likely perceive the Passives mechanics as "unbalanced", because it punishes the objective's required micro-level maximization (in this case, the combat), where engaging in close & exhaustive battles - instead of being rewarded - are very likely to be penalized with impositions of passives that progressively inhibits combat stats.

2. Someone would define the ultimate objective as to just "subjugate the entire prison eventually", where this would then also dictate their paramaters for "good balance"; they will perceive that the game gave them reasonable period after unrest to develop the macro-level gameplay (via Funds and Edicts) before it starts penalizing, be it with Riots or the eventual daily Control decline.

These are just the two examples i can think of for this game, and i'm sure many of you guys are more well-versed than me with the game's mechanics so as to recognize and expand on the idea that i'm gesturing towards.

The problem starts when they use their own yardsticks to define what ought to be the "good balance" for the game. I believe the meta-dissent that my above example tries to allude to, is what brought the discussion into an impasse of constant arguing; they insist on their own ultimate objective of the game (the meta-subjectivity), and proceed to judge the game's balance based on how well it conforms with the parameters required of their self-defined objective (the objective derivation of the ad hoc telos).

I feel like the best solution is to faithfully infer (or just outright ask) how the Dev himself wants the game to be played, and then derive the parameters of balance based on that. This way, the judging can be done on the game's own terms, instead of what we the players make of the game. So the assessment would be to scrutinize whether or not the Dev has successfully implemented balancing that supports his own defined objective of the game.

DISCLAIMER: i'm not an expert on the game. I was merely observing that there is a striking similarity between the perpetual disagreement happening in this game's discussion with the perpetual disagreement occuring in real world matters. I believe the root cause of both impasse might be identical.

EDIT: Hey, i remember you. You were the guy that replied to my comment in this thread a year (or two) ago, when i asked about how to level up Karryn's Charm. Warm greetings.

 

[E358700]

I feel like there are too many varying yardsticks as to what constitutes "good balance", especially in games with broad array of mechanics. And players will tend to decide for themselves what is "good balance" based on their own gameplay preferences (not that it is a problem when it comes to one's own enjoyment/experience), such as covertly self-defining win conditions.

Yeah, that's kind of an unfortunate fact for single-player games especially. A game can be well balanced from a dev's perspective, but different players will interact with the systems in place in different ways, so if you aren't railroaded into specific forms of interacting with the world then some people will naturally play in an unbalanced way, even if the game mechanics themselves very well balanced against each other behind the scenes. Hell, you can even play in the exact way the game was intended, but if the mechanics don't click with you personally, you might feel the game is unbalanced anyway. This game has a lot of things that are probably very well balanced for the experience intended by the dev, but are very unbalanced for many of the various gameplay niches that the game allows for, thus being perfectly balanced for some, and damn-near unplayable for others.

 

[Seven Soft]

Yeah, that's kind of an unfortunate fact for single-player games especially. A game can be well balanced from a dev's perspective, but different players will interact with the systems in place in different ways, so if you aren't railroaded into specific forms of interacting with the world then some people will naturally play in an unbalanced way, even if the game mechanics themselves very well balanced against each other behind the scenes. Hell, you can even play in the exact way the game was intended, but if the mechanics don't click with you personally, you might feel the game is unbalanced anyway. This game has a lot of things that are probably very well balanced for the experience intended by the dev, but are very unbalanced for many of the various gameplay niches that the game allows for, thus being perfectly balanced for some, and damn-near unplayable for others.

Yes indeed, i feel like. It seems to also reflect real life in a way; there are various "gameplay niches" (metaphorically) when it comes to life also. And..., let's just leave it at that.

Coming back to discussing this game, i want to disclose that i personally don't have any opinion on the game's balancing.

Initially, i played this game with focusing more on the combat (which i had assumed to be the core of the gameplay, which has been the case for most japanese RPGM games) and i found the pursuit of the purity ending (i.e. Holy Empress in this game) to be unforgivingly hard. I followed some vague guides from this forum here to achieve said ending, and a handful of commenters advised that "speedrunning" the game is most optimal for the ending. It might just be me who sucks, but i still struggle a lot with this approach, to the eventual dismay of my interest.

But i started playing this game again a few weeks ago, and this time with far more emphasis on Edicts (therefore maximizing Funds). And i found that this orientation allows me more breathing room to achieve my intended objective of the game (i.e. purity ending). Granted, i used a great deal of save scumming to circumvent mostly the Office Invasion event (because far into the run, i realized i effed up on some of the Edicts and i can't be arsed to redo 30 or so days). But by the end of my run, i have a massive surplus of Funds, Slut Levels and Warden Levels, since the new approach that i used had allowed me to already acquire all the training upgrades by Level 3 Anarchy (EDIT: because i maximized the number of days spent on each level to stockpile on Funds, so it's already around day 100 when i subjugate Level 3). So maybe this indicates how the approach may be doable without save scumming (it won't be me who verifies, since i'm not very skilled).

And hence with the more forgiving experience in my new run, i guessed that maybe the approach i used this time aligns more closely to what the Dev intends to be the way to achieve the purity ending. But that's just an assumption tho. And then again, the maximizing of Funds effectively allows players the freedom to choose whichever ending they please... So in the end: ehh... idk. I bust some decent nuts tho, and that's all that matters to me, i guess.

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[AMT7922]

Having dumped way too many hours and runs into KP (unmodded), the gameplay balance is really good. The game seems hard and unbalanced until you learn how the multiple system works and tied together. Playing it straight without putting some thoughts into the system will often lead players into bad situation (damage type triangle, having high order, edicts penalty and etc).

Once you get the hang of it, it becomes a title/achievement collection game as you explore different ways to earn them over multiple runs. You have the freedom to mould Karryn & the prison however you like within the game limitation and mods for those beyond the original game scope.

 

[E358700]

Initially, i played this game with focusing more on the combat (which i had assumed to be the core of the gameplay, which has been the case for most japanese RPGM games) and i found the pursuit of the purity ending (i.e. Holy Empress in this game) to be unforgivingly hard. I followed some vague guides from this forum here to achieve said ending, and a handful of commenters advised that "speedrunning" the game is most optimal for the ending. It might just be me who sucks, but i still struggle a lot with this approach, to the eventual dismay of my interest.

Oh man, this game was ROUGH the first time I played it. I chose not to look into any of the guides, and just started playing in the way I usually do when I'm unsure about the mechanics of a turn-based RPG; I played a generalist, with a focus on dealing damage over buffing or defensive play. I spread my edict points evenly across the various attack types, I took full advantage of the rock-paper-scissors system, I tried to use pretty much all the mechanics I had at my disposal that fit my play style, and I tried my best to keep Karryn a virgin, and not to let her slut level get too high.

Unfortunately, the game doesn't exactly make it super clear that you are AGGRESSIVELY level capped in each area, and if you focus on more than two attack types, you're going to be extremely underleveled, especially in the later areas, and fights were taking so long by floor 3 that I was regularly having to wait for level 1 to riot so I could grind levels, and beeline it for the boss fights in each area while running from fights to get to the security rooms so I didn't drive Karryn's slut level way up just from the fights taking a long time; potentially even resulting in losing basic fights and/or getting her fucked.

Eventually I did figure out better ways to play the game, and got (somewhat) better at it, but it does still go to show that if you're not familiar with all the little quirks of the game (especially the ones the game isn't super up-front about, like the level-capping), it's very, VERY easy to make the game extremely unbalanced for yourself. Not to say it isn't fun, just that it can feel very unfair on either your first few attempts or when you're trying to play a specific way that doesn't really mesh with what the game wants from you.

The porn is really good though, full marks on that front, especially the side-jobs for the bar and reception. There's a good reason so many people want more of them.

 

[Seven Soft]

Oh man, this game was ROUGH the first time I played it. I chose not to look into any of the guides, and just started playing in the way I usually do when I'm unsure about the mechanics of a turn-based RPG; I played a generalist, with a focus on dealing damage over buffing or defensive play. I spread my edict points evenly across the various attack types, I took full advantage of the rock-paper-scissors system, I tried to use pretty much all the mechanics I had at my disposal that fit my play style, and I tried my best to keep Karryn a virgin, and not to let her slut level get too high.

Unfortunately, the game doesn't exactly make it super clear that you are AGGRESSIVELY level capped in each area, and if you focus on more than two attack types, you're going to be extremely underleveled, especially in the later areas, and fights were taking so long by floor 3 that I was regularly having to wait for level 1 to riot so I could grind levels, and beeline it for the boss fights in each area while running from fights to get to the security rooms so I didn't drive Karryn's slut level way up just from the fights taking a long time; potentially even resulting in losing basic fights and/or getting her fucked.

Eventually I did figure out better ways to play the game, and got (somewhat) better at it, but it does still go to show that if you're not familiar with all the little quirks of the game (especially the ones the game isn't super up-front about, like the level-capping), it's very, VERY easy to make the game extremely unbalanced for yourself. Not to say it isn't fun, just that it can feel very unfair on either your first few attempts or when you're trying to play a specific way that doesn't really mesh with what the game wants from you.

The porn is really good though, full marks on that front, especially the side-jobs for the bar and reception. There's a good reason so many people want more of them.

Yeah haha, although i was still stubborn about my "generalist" combat preferences that i maximized Funds specifically to afford training all of them equally. Yes i also went all in with the glass cannon build like a dunce. But then i discovered the Specialization Edicts, and wished i had done things differently (i haven't even made it that far, Funds wise, in all my runs prior to these last few weeks'). And so indeed i failed horribly at the combat build aspect.

Though relying mostly on Edicts planning to amass Funds (for earlier buffs and boosts in combat stats growth, so i can actually train Karryn instead of risking grape every battle) had granted me sufficient margin to make it through the game despite my poor combat build. Massive credit to that Counterattacker title.

EDIT: i also very sparingly battle, and only do 1 or 2 battles per day to train so as not to get Karryn sexually frustrated and to maintain (low) order. Of course, only when Karryn is both sufficiently leveled up and in perfect shape (i.e. after masturbating the night before) do i beeline to the (subsequent) room's obligatory battle and fight just them for the day to try to keep Karryn from getting aroused. If that fails, then all the battles i'll be doing for the next week or so will exclusively be the easy battles with the enemies in the level's first rooms (which i can clear despite being sexually frustrated). Coward gameplay at its finest.

So i guess the approach i used may be considered "pay 2 win" or "cheesing" the game. But in the end, all i wanted to chase was the ultimate release from the "purity" ending's HAPPY END final battle...

P.S. Kinda wished the yeti and alpha lizard dude had joined in.

 

[Purple_Heart]

EDIT: Hey, i remember you. You were the guy that replied to my comment in this thread a year (or two) ago, when i asked about how to level up Karryn's Charm. Warm greetings.

Hello there. Time really flies, doesn't it? I knew I'd been around for a while, but I didn't quite realize just how long. Now that I think about it, I've probably been here even longer than I thought.

...
The problem starts when they use their own yardsticks to define what ought to be the "good balance" for the game. I believe the meta-dissent that my above example tries to allude to, is what brought the discussion into an impasse of constant arguing; they insist on their own ultimate objective of the game (the meta-subjectivity), and proceed to judge the game's balance based on how well it conforms with the parameters required of their self-defined objective (the objective derivation of the ad hoc telos).

I feel like the best solution is to faithfully infer (or just outright ask) how the Dev himself wants the game to be played, and then derive the parameters of balance based on that. This way, the judging can be done on the game's own terms, instead of what we the players make of the game. So the assessment would be to scrutinize whether or not the Dev has successfully implemented balancing that supports his own defined objective of the game.
...

Since Karryn's Prison is an adult game, it's fair to assume that most players are primarily here to experience the adult content first, and only after that do they consider challenge runs or hunting achievements(like completing a pure run). If that's the case, and I believe it is, the game's balance should be designed around letting players explore that content in a fair and engaging way, without frustrating or punishing them.

Instead, the balance feels deliberately punishing, almost like a trap designed to force players into bad decisions that lead to failure, pushing them to start over. That would make sense if this were a roguelike, but it's not. It's an adult game, and most people want to explore the content without being "edged" into failure just to artificially stretch playtime.

The developer seems to want players to replay the game endlessly to discover everything or to just beat it atleast once. But based on the amount of hidden mechanics, vague systems, and complete lack of explanations, it's clear he either doesn't understand why people play this game, or worse, he simply doesn't care.

Let's talk examples:

• Sex skills scale with Dexterity, but the game never tells you that. You have to learn it from guides or forums.
• Passives: There are hundreds, most of which debuff you, and none are visible until unlocked. You can't even track them in-game without mods.
• No turn order indicator, something even basic turn based games have.
• Edict descriptions are vague. What do the up/down arrows mean exactly? We're never told.
• Core mechanics are obscure, and many choices lead to irreversible debuffs or run ending mistakes.
• People constantly ask how to unlock Light Kick, and most players probably don't even know it exists.

This isn't balance. Real balance means players follow clear, consistent rules and can make informed decisions. In Karryn's Prison, the rules are hidden and inconsistent. You're punished not for playing poorly, but for not guessing the correct approach in a game designed to obscure your options.

For a turn based strategy game, that's unacceptable. These games depend on providing data so players can make smart decisions. But here, you're left guessing, and punished for not reading the dev's mind.

Some design decisions also defy logic. For instance:

• Slut levels decrease Karryn's Charm. So a more experienced Karryn is less attractive? That makes no sense.
• You unlock accessory slots based on Charm, but the accessories themselves don't increase Charm(beyond +1 for each one purchased). Why? There's no in-universe logic or gameplay justification for that.

To be clear, Karryn's Prison is one of the best adult games I've played. But after hundreds of hours playing and analyzing its files, I can also say it's one of the most poorly balanced. The systems are stacked against the player, there are very few viable paths to victory, and those paths often feel neither satisfying nor rewarding.

Take my slut Karryn run, for example. What did I get for finishing it? Just some titles. No unique skills. No equipment. Nothing meaningful to carry into new game+. For a game that expects you to replay it, it does almost nothing to reward you for doing so.

 

[HappyGoomba]

You're punished not for playing poorly, but for not guessing the correct approach in a game designed to obscure your options.

It's not a game! It's a religion!

 

[Drakal]

Hello there. Time really flies, doesn't it? I knew I'd been around for a while, but I didn't quite realize just how long. Now that I think about it, I've probably been here even longer than I thought.


Since Karryn's Prison is an adult game, it's fair to assume that most players are primarily here to experience the adult content first, and only after that do they consider challenge runs or hunting achievements(like completing a pure run). If that's the case, and I believe it is, the game's balance should be designed around letting players explore that content in a fair and engaging way, without frustrating or punishing them.

Instead, the balance feels deliberately punishing, almost like a trap designed to force players into bad decisions that lead to failure, pushing them to start over. That would make sense if this were a roguelike, but it's not. It's an adult game, and most people want to explore the content without being "edged" into failure just to artificially stretch playtime.

The developer seems to want players to replay the game endlessly to discover everything or to just beat it atleast once. But based on the amount of hidden mechanics, vague systems, and complete lack of explanations, it's clear he either doesn't understand why people play this game, or worse, he simply doesn't care.

Let's talk examples:

• Sex skills scale with Dexterity, but the game never tells you that. You have to learn it from guides or forums.
• Passives: There are hundreds, most of which debuff you, and none are visible until unlocked. You can't even track them in-game without mods.
• No turn order indicator, something even basic turn based games have.
• Edict descriptions are vague. What do the up/down arrows mean exactly? We're never told.
• Core mechanics are obscure, and many choices lead to irreversible debuffs or run ending mistakes.
• People constantly ask how to unlock Light Kick, and most players probably don't even know it exists.

This isn't balance. Real balance means players follow clear, consistent rules and can make informed decisions. In Karryn's Prison, the rules are hidden and inconsistent. You're punished not for playing poorly, but for not guessing the correct approach in a game designed to obscure your options.

For a turn based strategy game, that's unacceptable. These games depend on providing data so players can make smart decisions. But here, you're left guessing, and punished for not reading the dev's mind.

Some design decisions also defy logic. For instance:

• Slut levels decrease Karryn's Charm. So a more experienced Karryn is less attractive? That makes no sense.
• You unlock accessory slots based on Charm, but the accessories themselves don't increase Charm(beyond +1 for each one purchased). Why? There's no in-universe logic or gameplay justification for that.

To be clear, Karryn's Prison is one of the best adult games I've played. But after hundreds of hours playing and analyzing its files, I can also say it's one of the most poorly balanced. The systems are stacked against the player, there are very few viable paths to victory, and those paths often feel neither satisfying nor rewarding.

Take my slut Karryn run, for example. What did I get for finishing it? Just some titles. No unique skills. No equipment. Nothing meaningful to carry into new game+. For a game that expects you to replay it, it does almost nothing to reward you for doing so.

the mod file you made is pretty good, one problem, the mans never stop doing things to karryn, a scene keep go forever, there is a setting for stop this?

 

[Supreme_Evil]

Does Rem working on any new project? It's been quite a while since the release of KP.

 

[mexser]

ok... reading this crazy last posts of criticism...
i have some things to say.....

if its a bad game because its unblanced , and very difficult....
if you already know so much abouthow to make a game, why dont you do it yourself, and clean your ass with your essays?

too much?
i don't care.


my only criticism on this game is that my dick has been such a dick to me, cause he's addicted to this game, so much, my hands are tired, and he stills needs fun. "DUDE!!! you need my hands to keep playing the game. If i keep gettign tired , i can't evolve in the game you ass hole!"

that's my personal critic on the game.
Its making me thinking on taking my dick to psychiatrist.

 

[Xypster]

the mod file you made is pretty good, one problem, the mans never stop doing things to karryn, a scene keep go forever, there is a setting for stop this?

Disable Karryn Lover part of Karryn Slutty mod

 

[Purple_Heart]

ok... reading this crazy last posts of criticism...
i have some things to say.....

if its a bad game because its unblanced , and very difficult....
if you already know so much abouthow to make a game, why dont you do it yourself, and clean your ass with your essays?

too much?
i don't care.

I try to watch football, someone jumps in and says, "Nooo! You can't criticize my favorite team unless you've founded your own football club!"
I try to watch movies, "Nooo! You can't critique my favorite film unless you've made your own movie!"
I play games, "Nooo! You can't criticize my favorite game unless you've developed your own!"
I fly on a plane made by some company, and when their planes crash, someone inevitably says, "Nooo! You can't criticize my favorite aircraft company unless you've founded your own!"
I criticize a country or government, "Nooo! You can't do that unless you're the founder or president of your own country!"
…
And then I write a clear, structured post, an "essay" if you will, about how an adult game could be better designed, and someone replies with broken English: "Why don't you do it yourself and wipe your ass with your essays?"

I genuinely don't understand the logic behind these people, if there's any logic at all. It's like going to a doctor, describing your symptoms, maybe even offering a guess based on what you've read or experienced, and the doctor screams back "Nooo! You can't say that unless you've studied medicine for decades like I have!" then refuses to treat you. What the actual hell?

If we were to apply that same ridiculous standard across the board, then I should just say this:
From now on, if anyone wants to criticize me or my posts, they better do it by writing a well structured essay in fluent English, just like I do. If you can't? Then by your own logic, you're not allowed to criticize me. Same energy.

 

[mexser]

oh no. you got me wrong there.
There is criticism, as in, marking somethign that coudl be better, or you would preffer like this and that.
Constructive criticism. that is okay.

Then you have ass criticism, where it is noted in the tone, as if the person has made tons of perfect , in this case games, flawless works of art, and getting more excuses to point how bad it is. As if that person was the ULTIMATE LIFE FORM OF PERFECTION. When the person nevereven knew where to start making game to begin with, but keeping its validation as teh correct one above all.
in that case, yes, go do your game then, and be happy with your work.


That's where i was going for , and clearly it missed mark.
it was my dicks fault holding the other hand hostage... so... sorry.

 

[Drakal]

Disable Karryn Lover part of Karryn Slutty mod
View attachment 4966570

emmm no? i turn off this settings, i still get infinite sex scene

 

[Purple_Heart]

emmm no? i turn off this settings, i still get infinite sex scene

By "scene", do you mean the small animation windows that pop up on screen when enemies interact with Karryn?

 

[Fake_Robot_User]

The game is beatable without an in-depth understanding of the mechanics or a lot of effort on easy mode, at least if you've played an RPG before. Increasing the difficulty level or going for specific challenges or a special ending requires better mechanical understanding and more planning and care.

Seems pretty well-balanced to me. Someone who does one or two playthroughs on easy or medium will see most of the content, probably beat the game, and have a good time. Completionists and challenge runners have a lot to sink their teeth into.

 

[mexser]

there is a lot to do in the game, depending of each player's objective.
Someone recomended me this game, and i am having fun, with it. Hard to understand at first certain things, but i am someone a bit complicated to get things at first. I have done so many trial errors in this game, but it does not affect my mood, per say.
some mods are useless, to me. Other people must have had tons of fun with the mods that i dont use, and that is good. There is a lot of, offerings (feels like i am talking a about offering a sacrifice).
Even the side jobs, are actually interesting, and i do have a good time.

 

[Vaeraine]

Tried installing kp cheat menu, and I am beyond frustrated. I have no clue what I am doing wrong for it to not work. I installed it exactly as the instructions said so via vortex and have it enabled-- I didn't find any other dependencies the mod required.