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Canto Forte

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Jul 10, 2017
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Here we are again ... coming to a head about what was gamed here and what was said about it.
Trouble with cop stories or with lawyers/judges/paralegals or prosecutors in shows is that people who study law and have a lot of work related random or same people with whom they engage with on the regular, they tend to be presented on TV as absolute man eaters/gigolos, especially cops and mostly women lawyers or judges or court clerks if we are to look at hugely popular shows:
True detectile very first season with charismatic heart throbbs Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey
who are cops that cheat on eachother and their life partners as a natural cop thing to do
Michelle Monaghan the wife of Woody cheats on him with Matthew after she finds out her husband has been cheating on her for years with the court clerk Alexandra Daddario
so right off the bat - these profesions are portrayed constantly as phillandering assholes who burn their partners to the stake of jealousy and betrayal.

They do this by being close to the ”law” and practically falsifying the reports to hide their deed (the two leads kill the suspects in their investigation and forge their reports so that the whole story rests only with them, as they cannot point the finger officially on dead people that they themselves murdered in cold blood and never actually got to put evidence together against them before murdering them)

That is the running theme with all the seasons of that show, dirty cops who murder suspects as opposed to actually closing investigations on them and then go off falsifying their records to hide their murders so that never ever would the actual truth or the conclusions of the investigation come to light.

Should we look at Suits or The Good Game or any lawyer drama, women bosses are man eaters who do not care about loyalty or anything, they just bang their peers, employees, clients - a running theme also in Grey Anatomy or The Judge or any number of court dramas where clerks or judeges, especially women bang everything that moves and shows any skin - bayliffs, clerks, lawyers, fellow judges, cops, prosecutors - you name it people they come in contact with - because when they get to write the ”truth” - like the dirty cops in True Detective do all the time, they car not to fear anything or anyone who could be coming at them with a different narrative.

All of the above were seen as the best TV dramas you could find for the longest of times when they dominated the awards shows and were praised years on end - precisely for letting the rot and the bad behavior shine in them.

It becomes very easy to see why many players coming off such applauded shows with the subject matter in this game would expect a more laid back approach to MC engaging in phillandering, because many protagonists, men and women, in such shows are portrayed exactly like that. Seeing so many cops or lawyers or judges or prosecutors (Billions is great in that sense) who get shows to lead in and they would do gratuitous sex scenes with whomever they wanted to hook up with, whenever they felt the itch, like they were owed such treatment by everyone else or something for their ”public service”.

The thing is - usually female cops, judges or lawyers (prosecutors are lawyers working for the state) do not have moral boundries in many such shows.

This game majorly subverts our expercations with Jamie or Aghavny:
1- on the one hand, they are go getters as a way of life and profession- they play to win - to get their man or get their prosecution or dominate at trial;
2- on the other hand, they both are such morally strong and absolute gorgeous souls - Aghavny and Jamie - to the extent that they would go so far as to let MC go just like that - this feels contrarry to the programming of such goal oriented individuals.

- Harvey Specter, for instance, would make a tragedy for not getting the woman romantically or man professionally who were his targets and he would shut down into drinking or try his luck at rebound with some of his older flames still open to flings - as are shown to be both women and men - lawyers or cops or judges, they would be very interested in one night stands.
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Dessolos

Devoted Member
Jul 25, 2017
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If Jamie jumped you right away in the 1st chapter - would she still be you favorite LI?
She is not my main LI but nothing ruins character more for me than when a LI fucks you right away without any relation building. Unless it is executed in a way that feels somewhat natural, like some spontaneous drunk sex or whatever suits the character.
100% I have played paths of characters like that and hated them at first for having sex right away but after awhile changed my mind as they started to feel like a normal character and relationship. But I think that's rare.
 

Ottoeight

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Mar 13, 2021
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yea, but this mc is completely anti-romantic type, yea we know it's his personality for now, but we are halfway and it's high time to wake up and be more romantic with girls, even some simple first time kiss scene, anything
So you say he isn't romantic with Aghavni, huh? :unsure:
They're a pretty romantic couple to me, you know :sneaky::sneaky::sneaky:.
 

Radnos Salazar

Active Member
Dec 4, 2023
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yea, but this mc is completely anti-romantic type, yea we know it's his personality for now, but we are halfway and it's high time to wake up and be more romantic with girls, even some simple first time kiss scene, anything
Agreed, but the Dev not very much into spoiling any planned content. I very explicitly asked about this a few posts above but he just said will have to wait and see lol :LOL:
 
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Dessolos

Devoted Member
Jul 25, 2017
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yea, but this mc is completely anti-romantic type, yea we know it's his personality for now, but we are halfway and it's high time to wake up and be more romantic with girls, even some simple first time kiss scene, anything
The only downside to story focus games can take a bit but I like slow burns so I don't mind since lewds matter verry little to me. Tho I feel a kiss or something would be nice for Emmeline. Jamie not so sure unless she is the one to engage it. This MC kind of feels like a Witcher at times when it comes to any romance with Jamie but seems a bit more open towards others unless I just misremember. Tho I don't really think anymore than a kiss cause could feel a bit rushed I think. However that depends on how the scene plays out but in my head it feels like it be rushed, but hey I trust this dev. So if he thinks it would work and make sense I think it will.
 

Ottoeight

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Mar 13, 2021
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i don't see any real connection between them, they are more like fuck buddies + they still don't know what to do with this relationship because of MC and his issues with feelings
But I know what to do... :sneaky:

Seriously, their bond is really strong. Way stronger than MC's bond with everybody else, except our little hottie redhead. But she's a little sis to him.
 

AlexMpog

Active Member
Oct 17, 2022
639
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yea, but this mc is completely anti-romantic type, yea we know it's his personality for now, but we are halfway and it's high time to wake up and be more romantic with girls, even some simple first time kiss scene, anything
And why MC would suddenly wake up, because of what? He lives/lived his routine life, yes he started investigation with his EX, is it enough for him to start changing all of a sudden? - Nope. He is who he is, he admits it himself.

The only significant changes happened to him recently in a game - he found out he has a sister and his Dad is murderer, all of these happened only at the end of 3rd chapter.
I don't see any factors that could trigger him and make him start changing.
 
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Canto Forte

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Jul 10, 2017
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This game starts with a very relatable action scene - MC is implicated in a fist fight and ends up stabbed in the ribs for his trouble.

The first question anyone would think of is - would a stab between the ribs not be a major wake up call to anyone, especially a prosecutor who is supposed to prosecute such behavior and ensure it does not repeat in the same area or anywhere within their area of interest?

Some gamers around here see it as nothing new or major in the life of our protagonist.

Fact of the matter is, the action scene is smack in the very beginning of this game, in the life of a, seemingly, washed up and down on his luck assistant D.A., who is shown to be uneasy and distraught about his disseration, even after pulling all nighters to finnish and polish it - yet we see him totally submissive to downright disheartened at the blossoming magnifficence of his childhood friend, who is a totally beter and more eloquent and a more knowledgeable collegue, who is even above him in rank at the offices he works at.

To add insult to injury, the game skips time and lapses in narrative to give us the impression that MC really refused to press charges, never filed a complaint or even went to the hospital - to which the dev simply filled in the gaps in this very forum, but not in the game itself.

All of these are total blanks in the game plot and narrative and are certainly disconcerting at the time when we might put our minds into trying to piece together all the clues and make our own assumptions and ideas about who MC is and what he does in his regular life, both professionally and intimately.

Another matter of contention is the biggest problem with the gym girl: a married woman, while finnishing her workout and having a chat with MC, she invites MC out for a drink to which MC replies by blowing her off, because she is married.

At that time, we only have the affirmations of MC about her, we have no other clue as to her actual intentions, her life or her situation, just the outright antisocial accusation of MC to her about her being married - which seems totally bonkers - do married women not have the right to have male friends? Do public servants like public attorneys refuse to interview or talk to married women because they have a husband?

The fact of the matter is, MC refuses her totally - which means not even going to the food truck outside to share a hot dog (Thank you Frozen Past for the hot dog stand LI that is the absolute bombshell relationship romantic fabulous girl) or just meeting at the coffee shop some other day, possibly before their workout, to ensure nothing comes of it outside of them both going to the gym afterwards - which are hella wrong.

For MC to be this deffensive and socially dismissive, it would mean that, in his mind, he thinks that sex is the immediate follow up to him meeting any or all women who are married - totally demented assumption on his part - or him deluding himself that any or all interactions with married women would result him into sexual favors or interactions with women who are otherwise married and off the market - which makes him a sociopath in the ilk of so many deluded cult leaders who would trick women using a lover boy technique and then become absolute slave drivers for these women. How could even the mildest to smallest interactions be considerred assured sexual by MC - a public servant - who is supposed to hear out the girls and the boys of his constituancy regardless of marital status.

In real life, guys tend to be forgotten into the friendzone and denied the smallest humaine affectionate interaction for the rest of their lives by girls who would totally gloss over them like Jamie does to MC and MC does to Jamie in the first two episodes where they simply interact like little kids who have to share the same lesson at school and then split to totally different lives for eachother. For the painstaking two first episodes, MC is thinking that every girl interaction is assures sex for him, so he refuses some of them outright, which is bonkers.

Why does MC keep his head in the gutter?
yea, but this mc is completely anti-romantic type, yea we know it's his personality for now, but we are halfway and it's high time to wake up and be more romantic with girls, even some simple first time kiss scene, anything
The only downside to story focus games can take a bit but I like slow burns so I don't mind since lewds matter verry little to me. Tho I feel a kiss or something would be nice for Emmeline. Jamie not so sure unless she is the one to engage it. This MC kind of feels like a Witcher at times when it comes to any romance with Jamie but seems a bit more open towards others unless I just misremember. Tho I don't really think anymore than a kiss cause could feel a bit rushed I think. However that depends on how the scene plays out but in my head it feels like it be rushed, but hey I trust this dev. So if he thinks it would work and make sense I think it will.
And why MC would suddenly wake up, because of what? He lives/lived his routine life, yes he started investigation with his EX, is it enough for him to start changing all of a sudden? - Nope. He is who he is, he admits it himself.
all of these happened at the end of 3rd chapter.
I don't see any factors that could make him change.
MC has known Jamie for a lifetime - even shares the office with her at work.
Their special bond of affection expanded into their professional life together.
In the real world, such family friends turn into life partners with kids in a heartbeat.
Out there, though, people are not thinking of themselves as totally ”God*s gift to women” and do not assume every interaction with a girl, especially a married girl, will undoubtedly bring them sex.

In this game, MC is paranoid to the point that MC acts disturbingly antisocial in order to keep his celibacy in the beginning of the game.

When we think about who Jamie is, what archetype of girl she represents and the place she holds in the game, she is old money.

Old money girls who are this grounded, kind and affectionate like Jamime, also self conscious, confident and successful - she would eat MC up like the oldest daughter of the Meet Jack Black financial mogul character - she sees the guy she wants and she takes him - because she has utmost trust in him to never be able to hurt her, never be able to even question her, never be a contender who would ever compete against her:
- MC is admittedly pussy whipped and absolutely worshipping Jamie in the office and in their personal life.

After such a reception that Jamie gets from MC all throughout the first half of this game,
- the sudden outbursts from chapter three, where MC essentially blows Jamie and her brother off at the movies, being absent and still thinking about some investigation that he keeps twisting and twirling in his mind about, where he insists to be going down the rabbies hole totally,
that is one mighty complete 180 turn of events that we see in MC.

Those changes in MC are destructive, because we were supposed to build our relationships up by the third episode, yet MC totally resets his longest relationships down to sub zero cold daft ignorance with both Jamie and her brother - who are essentially his family right now.
All of it gets done by MC while struggling in his demented fall from professional grace and deep dive into social infamy.
These are not the good plot twists, neither those who would demonstrate the MC would be growing as a character in the next chapters.

if he doesn't start changing, we will see first kiss scene in last chapter, remember
MC has been blowing his girlfriends off for the longest of times - Aghavny being the latest victim - she is the total babe who extends the olive branch to MC and, at long last, gets to at least teach him some sexual womanly love and affection to this obnoxious MC. The court clerk is the other flip of the coin - she exposes the fearful, lack of backbone MC who abbandons women at their lowest while blamig them for their losses:
Karma brings MC to total dementia in this last chapter with his destruction of his longest friendships with Jamie and her brother - his efffective family as of now.

The murder and the heartache is what MC investigates every day . Not so cold and cocky now, that MC has his life struck by murder and heartache for a loved one, eh, MC ???

Note: This post has been redacted by popular demand, in order to cut out all the caps - which were signaling the points of interest that were inserted into the messages contained within. It has since turned into some essay about the many ups and downs we can watch as they unfold in the life of the protagonist.
jesus less caps next time makes it hard and annoying to read...
sorry man, but it's kinda hard to read your posts
 
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Dessolos

Devoted Member
Jul 25, 2017
11,761
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A STAB IN BETWEN THE RIBS is no wake up call to you, huh ???
Happened right AT THE VERY BEGINNING and we were left thinking MC really refused to press charges, file a complaint or even go to the hospital - to which the dev simply filled in the gaps in this very forum NOT IN THE GAME.

All of these TOTAL BLACKOUTS in the game plot and narrative are CERTAINLY DISCONCERTING when we might try to piece together all the clues.

The biggest problem with the gym girl who is married but MC refuses her EVEN GOING TO THE FOOD TRUCK OR THE CAFFEE FOR A DRINk OR SOME FAST FOOD is hella wrong,
BECAUSE IT MEANS THE MC IS THINKING OF SEX RIGHT OFF THE BAT FROM ANY OR ALL INTERACTIONS WITH A GIRL - HOW MUCH MORE SOCIOPATHIC CAN MC BE IF HE FEARS EVEN THE MILDEST TO THE VERY BASIC INTERACTIONS TO BE DIRECTLY SEXUAL TO HIM ???





MC has known Jamie for a lifetime - even shares the office with her - such family friends turn into life partners with kids in a heartbeat in the real world where people ARE NOT TOTAL GIGOLOS WHO THINK EVERY INTERACTIONS WITH A GIRL WILL GET THEM SEX to the point MC feels totally ANTISOCIAL in the beginning of the game.

Old money girls who are this grounded like JAmime is self conscious, confident, successful - she would eat MC up like the oldest daughter of the Meet Jack Black financial mogul character - she sees the guy she wants and she takes him - because she has utmost trust in him to NEVER HURT HER, NEVER QUESTION HER, NEVER COMPETE AGAINST HER - MC is admittedly pussy whipped and absolutely worshipping Jamie in the office and in their personal life - the sudden outbursts where MC essentially blows Jamie and her brothe roff at the movies about some investigation he keeps going down the rabbies hole into is the complete 180 we see in MC ... but not the good or the growing as a character kind of turn.
jesus less caps next time makes it hard and annoying to read...
 
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erkper

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May 16, 2018
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I don't like Aghavni as an LI and chose to turn her down in all 3 paths I'm playing, but I still get all the relevant scenes with her as we investigate. FYI, I really like her as a friend/partner. Like I said in an earlier post, this dev is really good at dialogue pathing. There's no flirting or drooling or romance with her, it's just professional and friendly. No matter which path you are on you will get all the scenes except the lewds obviously, of the other 3. But, hopefully, the sexy times will be fairly balanced across the 4 LIs come the end of chapter 8.
OK, fair - I should have specified I meant more "lewd" or "romantic" scenes with her than with one's favorite LI. FWIW I agree with you, Aghavni isn't at all my cup of tea as an LI (neither is Jaime) but I love her as a character in the AVN (same with Jaime.)
 

Ottoeight

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Mar 13, 2021
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homies a little too buff for someone who sits at a desk all day, jfc step into a work office sometime.
He is not a normal person. Maybe I've misunderstood, but I got the feeling that his athletic natural gifts are NOT 100% a genetic gift from his parents.
 

Das_Peanut

Newbie
Oct 7, 2021
56
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Mature plot and characters so far. Hope there will be more western vns like this in the future.
Agreed. I quite like the writing and the mature characters (both in behaviour and age). I'm somewhat sick of obnoxiously dense or entirely unrealistic characters, and it's also refreshing to see a story about actual adults (rather than people in their late teens or early twenties) who (mostly) act their age.
 
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