Recommending Lesbian Protagonist Games List (My Version)

[baxtus]

Frankly, that makes a lot of sense, if we assume that your sexual preferences based on physics of your brains. Different sex -> different brain's layout -> different preferences. Otherwise, you think, what? That your sexual preferences based on your soul or something?

No, it really doesn't make sense, since brain differences between genders are largely due to sex hormone differences as we grow from babies to adulthood. By the point of those in game brain swaps, the brains have already spent decades "marinating" in sex hormones, the structural development is pretty much set, in addition, you have decades of mental connections and learned experience and thought processes that are largely set by adulthood and if damaged or disrupted in adulthood are likely to be lost forever.

In order to actually sex alter a brain, you'd basically have to cause brain damage, as you'd be altering the volume and information processing methods of various sections of the brain. It would be disrupting decades of mental connections and thought processes, and would likely be impossible to reform, as most of the brain's development happens in our early years.

Much more sense would be the brain largely remaining the same, as the rest of the body would be much more easy to reform (far less complex than the brain). In which case, your sexual preferences would largely be unchanged, similar to how transgender people remain attracted to the same people after transitioning (even after surgery and hormone injections).

 

[red_faced]

Frankly, that makes a lot of sense, if we assume that your sexual preferences based on physics of your brains. Different sex -> different brain's layout -> different preferences. Otherwise, you think, what? That your sexual preferences based on your soul or something?

What you're proposing is if you had been a completely different person.

Usually gender swaps are just "you have the same brain/mind you had before, but your body suddenly changed sex".

 

[baxtus]

What you're proposing is if you had been a completely different person.

Exactly, the amount of changes to the brain would be so immense and complex that it would be a completely different individual (akin to replacing with an Alternate Universe version where they were born a different gender, their entire life would have been different)

 

[Beggarman]

You all aren't trying to explain why it doesn't make sense, you trying to describe how body-altering should work to your liking.
Usually, a sex changing works via *poof*-like magic or different kind of potions/drugs or hi-tech surgery. Realistically speaking, in most cases it's unlikely that only the brain will remain perfectly intact while the rest of the body changes. It's much harder to get it to work that way, maybe with except of surgery case. Much easier to change whole body, resulting in a completely different person, as you mentioned, and different sexual preferences.
So my point is: if you want to and try to find some sense here, you will. If not, you can proceed with whining about why something works wrong.

The question is a bit metaphysical but the way I see it, there's two major points:
- Do you regard the brain as being you, or is it just another organ?
- Do you think sexual attraction is purely a biological response? Something learned? Somewhere in between or something else entirely?

If the brain literally is you, then having body-swaps change your brain means you effectively died and were totally replaced. The person that's there is just someone with your memories; Unless you think you are nothing more than a set of memories, but that's another discussion more relevant to cloning or whatever.

If the brain is not literally you (something I subscribe to, considering the myraid of problems I get that come from my brain and mind having their own ideas as to how things should run), then the brain can be changed and still consider you the same person, and the second question can come into play... but the second question leads to some nasty places that have relevance in the real world and aren't all that fun to talk about. If you believe it's purely biological, then it's something that can be medically "fixed" or screened for (and homophobic people will do this). If you believe it's purely something learned, then it's implying that people are taught or conditioned into their sexuality (and homophobes and transphobes (but I repeat myself) already seem to be assuming this and trying to hunt it out). Assuming it's a combination of the two just subscribes to both viewpoints, but "something else" is also a cop-out.

That said, part of what makes gender-swap stuff interesting, in my opinion, is the conflict between the character's old mind and what the body wants to do. Generally, I think it should take the "The mind is an organ, sexual attraction is a mix" approach, where their conditioning (/what they're used to) is coming into conflict with what the body wants/reacts to. It shouldn't just be "OMG I LOVE DICKS NOW" (not in the least because that approach is boring and a waste to begin with, the people you're trying to appease will still complain it's gay anyway, just write a cis girl coming out of her shell to slut it up instead) but the person shouldn't be 100% their old self anymore, either.

 

[Mravac Kid]

What you're proposing is if you had been a completely different person.

Usually gender swaps are just "you have the same brain/mind you had before, but your body suddenly changed sex".

I'd say they're usually "your mind is suddenly in a chemically significantly different brain, and is having to cope with the changes" which potentially results in drastic changes in sexuality.

 

[baxtus]

You all aren't trying to explain why it doesn't make sense, you trying to describe how body-altering should work to your liking.
Usually, a sex changing works via *poof*-like magic or different kind of potions/drugs or hi-tech surgery. Realistically speaking, in most cases it's unlikely that only the brain will remain perfectly intact while the rest of the body changes. It's much harder to get it to work that way, maybe with except of surgery case. Much easier to change whole body, resulting in a completely different person, as you mentioned, and different sexual preferences.
So my point is: if you want to and try to find some sense here, you will. If not, you can proceed with whining about why something works wrong.

Problem is, your claim only shows a ridiculous level of ignorance, the Brain is far more complex than other organs in the body (there is a reason you can conceivably replace nearly every other organ, but not the brain), the idea that high tech surgery or drugs can change it is ridiculous (that would be akin to claiming a brain transplant would be feasible). To change it would basically replace yourself and likely leave that person brain damaged.

You might have something along the lines of magic, but again, that would require changing someone from the ground up, a completely different individual

 

[baxtus]

I'd say they're usually "your mind is suddenly in a chemically significantly different brain, and is having to cope with the changes" which potentially results in drastic changes in sexuality.

Just chemically different is not enough, the brain would have to be completely different from the ground up, meaning even the way it developed would be different, meaning your memories and way of thinking would have to be different as well to fit within the different structure

 

[baxtus]

The question is a bit metaphysical but the way I see it, there's two major points:
- Do you regard the brain as being you, or is it just another organ?
- Do you think sexual attraction is purely a biological response? Something learned? Somewhere in between or something else entirely?

If the brain literally is you, then having body-swaps change your brain means you effectively died and were totally replaced. The person that's there is just someone with your memories; Unless you think you are nothing more than a set of memories, but that's another discussion more relevant to cloning or whatever.

If the brain is not literally you (something I subscribe to, considering the myraid of problems I get that come from my brain and mind having their own ideas as to how things should run), then the brain can be changed and still consider you the same person, and the second question can come into play... but the second question leads to some nasty places that have relevance in the real world and aren't all that fun to talk about. If you believe it's purely biological, then it's something that can be medically "fixed" or screened for (and homophobic people will do this). If you believe it's purely something learned, then it's implying that people are taught or conditioned into their sexuality (and homophobes and transphobes (but I repeat myself) already seem to be assuming this and trying to hunt it out). Assuming it's a combination of the two just subscribes to both viewpoints, but "something else" is also a cop-out.

That said, part of what makes gender-swap stuff interesting, in my opinion, is the conflict between the character's old mind and what the body wants to do. Generally, I think it should take the "The mind is an organ, sexual attraction is a mix" approach, where their conditioning (/what they're used to) is coming into conflict with what the body wants/reacts to. It shouldn't just be "OMG I LOVE DICKS NOW" (not in the least because that approach is boring and a waste to begin with, the people you're trying to appease will still complain it's gay anyway, just write a cis girl coming out of her shell to slut it up instead) but the person shouldn't be 100% their old self anymore, either.

Likely the answer to the brain is that it's kind of something in between the brain is a big part of you, but you are also more than just the brain, since you're also affected by the rest of your body and your experiences/perceptions/memories, which are filtered through that body, particularly via your senses.

But since the brain is a big part of you, altering it at a fundamental level, would as you say, be basically replacing yourself with someone different.

Same with sexuality, it's probably a combination of multiple factors, genetics, brain and body development and probably also development/experience/perceptions/memories from childhood.

 

[UntrustableBackstabber]

You think, what? That your sexual preferences based on your soul or something?

I means yes, Do you think Lesbian choose to be Lesbian? Lesbian doesn't become Lesbian by choice... They just suddenly feels a Girl looks hot then get awkward and feels bad if they are getting to close to their female friend because they sometimes imagine them having relationship if they are hot, and yes it need to be hot. (Note: "This is why I hate twitter Fake 'Lesbian' that always nag how they hate society view on woman and how they didn't get a 'Girlfriend'. LoL if a Girl think you are hot then you won't have a problem, you don't have one because you are either ugly on the outside or ugly on the inside.")

Sexuality are something scientist haven't found the answer of. If you ask Lesbian if they can choose to be straight or gay then you will find out a some of them will wish they are straight because it would make their life easier but they just can't look at dude and think "Yeah I want to marry him".

And there is also Transgender which make the soul thing more realistic than brain explanation because some people want to change gender to other. In a rare occurrence some people want to change gender and still like the gender they previously like which makes people think they are 'Straight' but they aren't.

Also I feels like the word Transgender is stupid because it makes people differentiate them and think of them as not the gender they want to be seen as. If a dude want to be a girl then she is a girl, that's it and if a girl want to be a dude then he is a dude, but alas the world labels everything. Gender get more confusing the more we progress. Like for example Demisexual exist and I was like "Does that means they like Demi-Human AKA Non-Human Humanoid?".

 

[Mravac Kid]

Just chemically different is not enough, the brain would have to be completely different from the ground up, meaning even the way it developed would be different, meaning your memories and way of thinking would have to be different as well to fit within the different structure

Well yes, a completely new body pretty much means a completely different brain. It's not a brain transplant, it's the (imprecise and vague concept of) mind that is transplanted into a completely different new body.

 

[baxtus]

It's a little ridiculous to continue this discussion, but okay.
Again, about means of sex-changing. No matter what is it exactly (magic, drugs, surgery), devs/writers never provide elaborated description of how it works. With the same success we can equal them all to the miraculous hoodoo-woodoo. During the body altering there is a lot to happen: genitals' replacing, skeleton and inner organs changes and etc. And with that all it's oh so utterly hard for you to imagine that brains also could be affected, at least partially? Do you know that women's brains are smaller than men's? Do you understand that during the transformation brains have to shrink in, at least? But if we're talking about miraculous hoodoo-woodoo everything is possible. Even altering of your brains without changing your personality.

The subject of which part of your brain has your personality housed - completely irrelevant there. Stop shaking the air and keep your smarty pants on.

And use spoilers for long posts, for god sake!

Yes, but the differences are due to decades of being affected by sex hormones, you can't just say hey lets change the brain but it won't cause massive disruption, that's not how brains work

 

[baxtus]

Well yes, a completely new body pretty much means a completely different brain. It's not a brain transplant, it's the (imprecise and vague concept of) mind that is transplanted into a completely different new body.

Then it won't be the same mind, since the brain and body is part of the mind, they aren't separate, our mind is the result of our brain and experience/perception and memories shaped by the body (particularly our senses), it'll be completely different from the ground up, it'll be a totally different person in every way that matters

 

[Mravac Kid]

Then it won't be the same mind, since the brain and body is part of the mind, they aren't separate, our mind is the result of our brain and experience/perception and memories shaped by the body (particularly our senses), it'll be completely different from the ground up, it'll be a totally different person in every way that matters

That's pretty much my point, you have the memories of your former self but all the genetics and chemistry of the body you've been transported to are telling you you're someone new. Ergo, change of preferences.

 

[Mika022]

Are you guys still talking about sex games? Shit, there's nothing complex about it, one day you're a man and the next you wake up a woman, simple as that, everything remains the same, the only thing that changes is your body. Some games with this theme even show things like menstruation, be more emotionally sensitive and new "sensations" but others just don't care about it.

In my opinion, your sexuality changing by changing your sex doesn't make any sense, you are the same person as before with the same preferences and the same personality, your body has changed but YOU remain the same person, It's not because your body has a different load of hormones and its structure has changed that you'll suddenly start to be sexually attracted to things you weren't before, maybe this will even increase your attraction to things you already liked.

 

[GreenDark]

your sexuality changing by changing your sex doesn't make any sense, you are the same person as before with the same preferences and the same personality

but

maybe this will even increase your attraction to things you already liked.

So it can only go one way?
Either it can change both ways or it doesn't change at all. Why are you selectively allowing one but not the other?

 

[The Celtic fan]

returning a little to the topic of the list.

I see that "college times" is on this list (is on ongoing/3d/renpy), the dev removed the lesbian route, and turned it into a kinetic novel so now all the scenes with men are unavoidable.

you should definitely remove it from the list.

 

[Mika022]

So it can only go one way?
Either it can change both ways or it doesn't change at all. Why are you selectively allowing one but not the other?

Do you really believe that a straight man will start having sex with men just because he became a woman?

 

[Princess Groundhog]

Do you really believe that a straight man will start having sex with men just because he became a woman?

There is such a thing as fluidity in a person’s sexuality. It’s not always set. Also, it’s not uncommon for trans people to experience a change in their sexual orientation:

You must be registered to see the links

 

[GreenDark]

Do you really believe that a straight man will start having sex with men just because he became a woman?

You're ignoring my point.

I'm (mostly) fine with your comment up until this line:

maybe this will even increase your attraction to things you already liked.

This throws your logic into a blender.

 

[Mika022]

There is such a thing as fluidity in a person’s sexuality. It’s not always set. Also, it’s not uncommon for trans people to experience a change in their sexual orientation:

You must be registered to see the links

Well, yes fluid sexuality could be used in these situations but it doesn't happen in games, it's just: "Hm, I became a woman, I saw my friend's dick, which never had any effect on me but now I want him to fuck me really hard". If it were shown that before the transformation he already had some type of attraction for another man, even if very small, it would make more sense start to like it after the transformation.