barglenarglezous

Engaged Member
Sep 5, 2020
2,162
3,807
I feel like if she'd actually willinging do sexy things with her mom she'd be a bit, erm, mean about it? Like she'd tell her to lick her ass cause she's a shitty mom and that's all she deserves... "yeah, get that tongue deeeeep in there you nasty bitch."
Yeah, this game needs more intergenerational hate-fucking.
 

JelF547

Active Member
Mar 15, 2023
642
1,121
I feel like if she'd actually willinging do sexy things with her mom she'd be a bit, erm, mean about it? Like she'd tell her to lick her ass cause she's a shitty mom and that's all she deserves... "yeah, get that tongue deeeeep in there you nasty bitch."
Yes, Makoto borderline raped Futaba previous time
 
  • Thinking Face
Reactions: Bingoogus

k1n5l4y3r

Active Member
Jun 20, 2018
598
1,021
I can see Sensei fucking Maki in the secret room, then Makoto entering it to ask something like where are the new dildos, then just taking off her clothes and saying: "Geez mom, if you were gonna fuck my boyfriend at least you could have the decency to ask me to join."
 

Ern The Skáld

Member
Game Developer
Jan 24, 2023
100
379
I can see Sensei fucking Maki in the secret room, then Makoto entering it to ask something like where are the new dildos, then just taking off her clothes and saying: "Geez mom, if you were gonna fuck my boyfriend at least you could have the decency to ask me to join."
And then Maki flips out because of the "boyfriend" and Makoto's nonchalance and we have Prisoner 2.0 :Kappa:
 

corsair101

New Member
Apr 27, 2021
9
25
Yes, Makoto borderline raped Futaba previous time
Makoto has a whole lot of sexual crazy energy going on, remember she also more or less raped Sensei during the depressive episode after her father died. I know she says after that she thought it wasn't real, but...oh lord, tag for spoilers if something happens with this, but if she finds out about what Kirin did with Sensei and Miku after the Halloween party, shit is gonna go nuclear.

And unrelated side note, but goddamn the Beachmas date with Noriko followed by the memory-recovering with Niki was an emotional one-two punch.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Bingoogus

DeSkel15

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2019
1,982
5,735
I can see Sensei fucking Maki in the secret room, then Makoto entering it to ask something like where are the new dildos, then just taking off her clothes and saying: "Geez mom, if you were gonna fuck my boyfriend at least you could have the decency to ask me to join."
That could easily lead to things getting darker, tbh. Maki is in complete denial about Sensei being even attracted to not-adults, so I doubt that would end well for Sensei.

Makoto would also probably feel even more betrayed, by them both. She's straight, monoamorous, and doesn't want to share, nor plans on it based off her Hunger Games stuff:
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Psycho Makoto would be interesting. Might even be where her story is heading:unsure::coffee:
 
Last edited:

JelF547

Active Member
Mar 15, 2023
642
1,121
Makoto has a whole lot of sexual crazy energy going on, remember she also more or less raped Sensei during the depressive episode after her father died. I know she says after that she thought it wasn't real, but...oh lord, tag for spoilers if something happens with this, but if she finds out about what Kirin did with Sensei and Miku after the Halloween party, shit is gonna go nuclear.
I think she would rage mostly because there were drugs involved. Except that, it shouldn't be a big deal in her eyes
 

corsair101

New Member
Apr 27, 2021
9
25
I think she would rage mostly because there were drugs involved. Except that, it shouldn't be a big deal in her eyes
Hard to say, really, probably depend a lot on how it gets explained to her. I can't comment too much because I'm behind by a few updates (finished Reset #5 but not up to the next main event yet), and I honestly don't recall Makoto ever really interacting with Kirin. Kind of depends on where the "Miku on drugs from Io" plotline goes and whether Miku actually remembers what happened.
 

Marie IV

Newbie
Sep 9, 2023
17
42
If one day Selebus were replaced by a ghostwriter who also assumed control of the story's artistic vision, would anyone notice a difference? Is the direction LiL is heading in so unique that it couldn't be replicated by anyone else without readers noticing any deviation from its original direction?

With the way LiL is developed, there are no secrets that "happy accidents" occur, blending and weaving the interruptions and personal experiences of Selebus' life alongside the story of LiL. But how far could these diversions go before any of us notice a difference or deviation from "what Lessons in Love should be/should have been," assuming it had any vague direction or objective to begin with?

Too little flexibility yields a rigid narrative that doesn't blend well with passing times, but too much flexibility and there may not be a narrative backbone at all—no true story to tell, just whatever comes to mind at a given moment, and mindsets change by the hour. That is the sort of feeling I get with how haywire recent chapters have been, and I'm interested to see if anyone else catches a glimpse of that or if I am just reading into it too much. Maybe it's progressing as intended, or maybe there's too much improvisation, as we know.

From what I could tell, though, Selebus seems to be vague about everything regarding the narrative direction of Lessons in Love, making it impossible to decipher between character development or character deviation—apart from the financial objectives; only there are his goals made abundantly clear.
 

JelF547

Active Member
Mar 15, 2023
642
1,121
If one day Selebus were replaced by a ghostwriter who also assumed control of the story's artistic vision, would anyone notice a difference? Is the direction LiL is heading in so unique that it couldn't be replicated by anyone else without readers noticing any deviation from its original direction?
LiL is unique so I can assume nobody can/want do it except Selebus
 

crustlord12

Active Member
Jun 24, 2020
666
1,956
If one day Selebus were replaced by a ghostwriter who also assumed control of the story's artistic vision, would anyone notice a difference? Is the direction LiL is heading in so unique that it couldn't be replicated by anyone else without readers noticing any deviation from its original direction?

With the way LiL is developed, there are no secrets that "happy accidents" occur, blending and weaving the interruptions and personal experiences of Selebus' life alongside the story of LiL. But how far could these diversions go before any of us notice a difference or deviation from "what Lessons in Love should be/should have been," assuming it had any vague direction or objective to begin with?

Too little flexibility yields a rigid narrative that doesn't blend well with passing times, but too much flexibility and there may not be a narrative backbone at all—no true story to tell, just whatever comes to mind at a given moment, and mindsets change by the hour. That is the sort of feeling I get with how haywire recent chapters have been, and I'm interested to see if anyone else catches a glimpse of that or if I am just reading into it too much. Maybe it's progressing as intended, or maybe there's too much improvisation, as we know.

From what I could tell, though, Selebus seems to be vague about everything regarding the narrative direction of Lessons in Love, making it impossible to decipher between character development or character deviation—apart from the financial objectives; only there are his goals made abundantly clear.
I think this is an interesting thought experiment. I do think that if you fed the game into a GPT style AI, you'd be able to continue writing in the style of Selebus - there is more than enough data for that at this point.

The vision/plot of the story has wavered at times but I believe it's generally moved in a particular direction - I do think he fucked around the plot a bit too much in late 2022/early 2023 but has gotten it back on track. Would a generative AI be able to move a story forward, however? Is this story "unique" enough?

I think that so far, it is, but it still needs some more tightening up over the course of the year. There are too many hanging plot threads that have been teased but haven't been resolved, even though some have been. But even then, I think he still has a unique visual and written storytelling method that would be difficult to replicate.

So, TL;DR yes I think we'd be able to tell the difference
 

Marie IV

Newbie
Sep 9, 2023
17
42
LiL is unique so I can assume nobody can/want do it except Selebus
[...] I think he still has a unique visual and written storytelling method that would be difficult to replicate.
Sure, it is unique in its history and its impact, but is it unique because of Selebus' fragility, or was it unique because of what Selebus once wanted it to be? And does that still hold up with what it is today?

I feel like a question like this could be infinitely revisited since LiL is stated to be a continuously progressing narrative with no end in sight. To illustrate this, we know so little about what the foundational state of LiL is supposed to be, specifically because one of the main points of LiL is that we are not supposed to understand it. Since we cannot objectively understand many aspects of it, theoretically anything can happen to change constants we presume to understand already, and we would be none the wiser if it is intentional, a retcon, a revision, or normal progression. The fantastical nature of LiL means literally anything can occur, and it could seamlessly flow through the story or be explained away as some expected anomaly necessary to fulfill a point of the narrative we might not know about. Is that good writing or a weakness? It may be impossible to tell.

I'm particularly interested in the concept of the death of the author and supremacy of the reader. With the unique development behind LiL, the author could theoretically be replaced by anyone for a moment, and it might be impossible for us as readers to know the difference. LiL is so narratively incomprehensible that anything could happen, and we would have no choice but to accept it as if it were supposed to be there. We might not be able to identify mistakes or breaks of logic, or the feasibility of deus-ex spider-angel Gods, or characters not acting the way they should, simply because we still don't understand the 'rules' of the story or what the story should be. Or anything for that matter.

... Or maybe that's the point, though: to intentionally make trying to understand anything pointless. Kudos to Maya for not understanding anything of her world after how many years; I feel like we barely understood anything in four.
 

JelF547

Active Member
Mar 15, 2023
642
1,121
Sure, it is unique in its history and its impact, but is it unique because of Selebus' fragility, or was it unique because of what Selebus once wanted it to be? And does that still hold up with what it is today?
It is unique because Selebus has balls to write about human horribleness from personal expirience. LiL is an explanation why some people are horrible, an example of why things whicch considered bad are actualy bad, etc etc etc.

Honestly, I don't sure there is something relatively similar in classic literature.

And yes, on top of that LiL is a denpa trope harem with schoolgirls and stuff
 

DeSkel15

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2019
1,982
5,735
If one day Selebus were replaced by a ghostwriter who also assumed control of the story's artistic vision, would anyone notice a difference? Is the direction LiL is heading in so unique that it couldn't be replicated by anyone else without readers noticing any deviation from its original direction?

With the way LiL is developed, there are no secrets that "happy accidents" occur, blending and weaving the interruptions and personal experiences of Selebus' life alongside the story of LiL. But how far could these diversions go before any of us notice a difference or deviation from "what Lessons in Love should be/should have been," assuming it had any vague direction or objective to begin with?

Too little flexibility yields a rigid narrative that doesn't blend well with passing times, but too much flexibility and there may not be a narrative backbone at all—no true story to tell, just whatever comes to mind at a given moment, and mindsets change by the hour. That is the sort of feeling I get with how haywire recent chapters have been, and I'm interested to see if anyone else catches a glimpse of that or if I am just reading into it too much. Maybe it's progressing as intended, or maybe there's too much improvisation, as we know.

From what I could tell, though, Selebus seems to be vague about everything regarding the narrative direction of Lessons in Love, making it impossible to decipher between character development or character deviation—apart from the financial objectives; only there are his goals made abundantly clear.
Sel has seemed rather straightforward on the plans. Harem Route -> Dark Route -> Purity Routes -> True End. In a 10 year development (according to the wiki). We're on year 4 (Chapter 4). Considering the game has also been reworked and will probably be reworked again eventually, it's likely the game will reach it's intended outcome no matter the deviation. (Unless Sel dies)

There's also still the Prequel 'Nothing Is Beautiful' and perhaps a Sequel(?) 'Grow Old. Then Die', that seem to still be in mind, and both were referenced through cameos, in the recent 'Rain King' Happy Event.

Of course, it's all a work in progress, but Sel doesn't strike me as the kind of person who'd alter the core of their vision, otherwise this would probably still be on patreon and the wizards wouldn't exist.

I'm also of the opinion that when someone tries to replicate another's work, it's usually not too hard to tell. People can't seem to help introducing part of themselves into their work, and into the work of others, hence stuff like Headcanon and Fan Fiction. There's plenty of people who'd be hoodwinked, though. (This is coming from someone who's read an obnoxious amount of comics, which tend to have so many writers, retcons, and inconsistencies, it's painful to be a fan.)

Still, no recent development in LiL has been that surprising, imo. Even New Maya has been predictable. Especially considering that Sensei likely missed her bday, which might come up soon.
 

Marie IV

Newbie
Sep 9, 2023
17
42
If I may provide an option...
Basically that, aye :LOL: (y)
Of course, it's all a work in progress, but Sel doesn't strike me as the kind of person who'd alter the core of their vision, otherwise this would probably still be on patreon and the wizards wouldn't exist.
Yeah, you're right, definitely not. Still, I worry too much of LiL is left to chance, making aspects of the story more immune to critique then it deserves to be. Needless to say, we won't be able to tell for sure until the story is updated for the last time. When/if that day comes, I'm sure everyone here will be feeling a bit more hollow than usual, regrettably.
 

fdsasdf_p

Active Member
Apr 24, 2021
712
2,252
I feel like a question like this could be infinitely revisited since LiL is stated to be a continuously progressing narrative with no end in sight. To illustrate this, we know so little about what the foundational state of LiL is supposed to be, specifically because one of the main points of LiL is that we are not supposed to understand it. Since we cannot objectively understand many aspects of it, theoretically anything can happen to change constants we presume to understand already, and we would be none the wiser if it is intentional, a retcon, a revision, or normal progression. The fantastical nature of LiL means literally anything can occur, and it could seamlessly flow through the story or be explained away as some expected anomaly necessary to fulfill a point of the narrative we might not know about. Is that good writing or a weakness? It may be impossible to tell.
I am in complete agreement with you on this. Selly designs his world this way so that whatever card he plays he can claim it's a wild card and the way he plays definitely goes by the rules. But sometimes I do feel like he is taking this a little too much, making things extra incomprehensible not because some necessities due to story reason, but because he can just do that. The truth is if you do it often enough people will drop some aspects of the game and focus on what they are "allowed to understand" (seen folks here giving up god stuff completely and only looking forward to teenager dramas, and it's completely understandable).
1711687287343.png

Despite this, however, I am mostly fine with this because I subjectively want to believe that somewhere in a plain of existence there is a LiL story with its main structure already done, all its milestones already set, and its final destination already scheduled to perfection or at least to our hearts' content so that every piece of clue one day will fall into place. For this he has to do his part in doing great articulations, and not just by using the phrase everything is connected as some sort of almighty spell when that should be your goal and not your method. As long as he nails the important elements, a few dents in the story which result from making pit stops that I personally deemed unnecessary are acceptable. You might only get a 9/10 because of it but it's ok since stuff out there that barely meets 8/10 is so far few and between already.

And by "nailing the important elements", I really hope his vision on LiL is firmly set after that massive rework. For example, I suspect his idea of how LiL should play out shifted ever so slightly after the revamp solely by judging the difference between the old and the new The Room with Clocks, where the new one introduces Maya variants sentient about how weird the world surrounding Sensei is, a second god, and Himawari a lot earlier; all relevant components with proper explanations still lacking.

So I guess what I meant by I am mostly fine, I am probably just patiently withholding judgement on a work in progress. Keep working on the project and be as convoluted as you want to. You can confuse us and we will confuse ourselves from time to time by reading too hard into an unfinished work. But there will be one day where we are able to look at this whole presentation as a hopefully cohesively weaved piece of art, and question the content in every single slide that he made a choice to include.

Anyway just a little rant; I am mostly positive for what the future holds but going into rabbit holes just happens sometimes.
 
Last edited:
4.20 star(s) 292 Votes