Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.42.0] [Selebus]

[alex2011]

Incidentally do we know why platforms do this? It isn't just Patreon.

The closest thing to a cogent argument that I've ever read was that apparently with adult content there tend to be more chargebacks, but I don't even know if that's true.

Back in the day I would have assumed it was just due to pressure from certain groups but those groups are no longer in the ascendant, and while there are certainly others that have picked up the torch with equal (or even greater) fervor, they don't (yet) have the same sort of each as their predecessors.

Do the numbers just work out behind the scenes in such a way that more money comes in if everything is 'squeaky clean' so to speak? I find that kinda hard to believe, but what else is there?

Money, the payment processors and credit card companies do business in countries that completely ban the kind of stuff that got put into the new rules and payment processors and credit card companies are where Patreon makes the big bucks. Any website that allows such content is under threat from payment processors and credit card companies to not be allowed to use their services, which can cost those websites A LOT of potential customers. That's why SubscribeStar doesn't have those options.

Those certain groups are a problem to be sure, one of them is what caused the Intch.io issue, but they are not why the new rules are in place. Groups like that don't have enough influence to make sites like Patreon bow down, but payment processors, like PayPal, and credit card companies, like Visa, do.

 

[forbiddentwo]

Money, the payment processors and credit card companies do business in countries that completely ban the kind of stuff that got put into the new rules and payment processors and credit card companies are where Patreon makes the big bucks. Any website that allows such content is under threat from payment processors and credit card companies to not be allowed to use their services, which can cost those websites A LOT of potential customers. That's why SubscribeStar doesn't have those options.

Those certain groups are a problem to be sure, one of them is what caused the Intch.io issue, but they are not why the new rules are in place. Groups like that don't have enough influence to make sites like Patreon bow down, but payment processors, like PayPal, and credit card companies, like Visa, do.

That just brings us right back to the 'why' though. Do those countries have policies similar to Patreon's "if you allow it ANYWHERE that means we don't do business with you ever' policy? Like, payment processors can't just not accept payments for that sort of stuff from those countries?

And while I can understand some countries having such policies, surely all of that sweet, sweet, adult content money is enticing for credit card companies...?

 

[alex2011]

That just brings us right back to the 'why' though. Do those countries have policies similar to Patreon's "if you allow it ANYWHERE that means we don't do business with you ever' policy? Like, payment processors can't just not accept payments for that sort of stuff from those countries?

And while I can understand some countries having such policies, surely all of that sweet, sweet, adult content money is enticing for credit card companies...?

Worse, these are countries with EXTREMELY restrictive laws regarding depictions of several different kinds of content. Some of them even ban written depictions of it. The quoted part is completely correct, though, and that is what drives these bans. The payment processors don't accept payments for these kinds of things, that's why SubscribeStar can't use them. In not accepting these kinds of things, they outright ban sites that don't bow to them, that's how they go about not accepting those things.

Apparently not enticing enough, there is probably more money coming from those countries due to said countries not doing business AT ALL, so even for non-adult things, with companies that allow such things. It is largely a ban in principle, which would not work if it was a ban on that kind of thing and not a ban on the company allowing it.

 

[barglenarglezous]

That just brings us right back to the 'why' though. Do those countries have policies similar to Patreon's "if you allow it ANYWHERE that means we don't do business with you ever' policy? Like, payment processors can't just not accept payments for that sort of stuff from those countries?

And while I can understand some countries having such policies, surely all of that sweet, sweet, adult content money is enticing for credit card companies...?

Off the top of my head:

Patriot Act: Requires all financial institutions to report "suspicious transactions" in an attempt to combat money laundering. There's an old precedent from the VHS porn era, back when most porn studios were owned by organized crime outfits and used to launder money. As a result, just about all adult content is still considered "suspicious" and reported. So the money may be nice, but it generates a ton of paperwork.

FOSTA/SESTA: The law that killed Craigslist and Backpage. Craigslist still exists, but had to take down all of it's personals sections to comply, and Backpage got full-on raided over it. This law is why credit cards won't work with PornHub or Subscribestar anymore.

That's two US laws that impact all of this. I have no doubt that every jurisdiction has one or more laws that further complicate the matter. And while some of those reasons may not really pertain to erotic video games, it's adjacent enough to the rest of the industry as a whole that it's just as impacted by the response.

Typically, they don't bother splitting hairs. Adult content is adult content, and if one form of it becomes a liability, odds are good they'll cut ties with ALL of it simply so they don't have to spend time figuring out where the line is.

 

[alex2011]

Off the top of my head:

Patriot Act: Requires all financial institutions to report "suspicious transactions" in an attempt to combat money laundering. There's an old precedent from the VHS porn era, back when most porn studios were owned by organized crime outfits and used to launder money. As a result, just about all adult content is still considered "suspicious" and reported. So the money may be nice, but it generates a ton of paperwork.

FOSTA/SESTA: The law that killed Craigslist and Backpage. Craigslist still exists, but had to take down all of it's personals sections to comply, and Backpage got full-on raided over it. This law is why credit cards won't work with PornHub or Subscribestar anymore.

That's two US laws that impact all of this. I have no doubt that every jurisdiction has one or more laws that further complicate the matter. And while some of those reasons may not really pertain to erotic video games, it's adjacent enough to the rest of the industry as a whole that it's just as impacted by the response.

Typically, they don't bother splitting hairs. Adult content is adult content, and if one form of it becomes a liability, odds are good they'll cut ties with ALL of it simply so they don't have to spend time figuring out where the line is.

I see, this is light that was not shed on the issue when it first came up around the time the new Patreon rules were implemented. I hadn't even considered FOSTA/SESTA to be a threat in this kind of situation nor the Patriot Act, which is largely to prevent actual credible threats to the country by stopping and/or tracing transactions that may be going to an organization posing such a threat.

The last part is very true and is the reason some people have predicted that places like Patreon are setting up to ban adult content entirely. PayPal and Visa already have, they refuse to directly process transactions for that kind of thing. However, that's where sites like SubscribeStar come in, because you are paying to support a creator, not to buy adult content. If only the other places mentioned could see it that way. The same with the Japanese site DLSite, where you can buy site specific currency that has an equivalent value in JPY so as to avoid directly paying for the games and other works there, thus allowing the use of services that otherwise wouldn't process those payments. The difference in their reaction can be explained in simply the fact that there is no alternative system to support the creators, so the only option is to ban the site from those payment services entirely.

 

[Pr0man]

The closest thing to a cogent argument that I've ever read was that apparently with adult content there tend to be more chargebacks, but I don't even know if that's true.

Ah yes, the chargeback risk. This is basically the given go-to explanation as to why payment processors (the invisible third party present in literally any online exchange) deny service of transaction when it comes to adult content. Apparently, services that fall under the "adult" category have a very high risk of running a chargeback issue for various reasons, which can cause damage to the processor in one way or another, so in order to protect themselves from it, payment processors decide to flat-out deny them service instead. If that argument holds true or not feels irrelevant, as we can now see that this allows these processors to massively skew power into their favor by selectively denying service where they deem it necessary.
Hell, services like Patreon and SubscribeStar use their own chargeback protection systems (with subscribestar even stating it in their FAQ), so in reality, for those sites it is nothing but a forwarded reason to hide behind in order to not risk losing their entire business because the guys that have leverage decide to axe them. It's in a nutshell what brought in the OnlyFans controversy regarding the removal of their entire adult content.

Guess I'll have to buy me an annual pass then before too long, as I don't own a credit card and thus can't support via SS.

 

[forbiddentwo]

Ah yes, the chargeback risk. This is basically the given go-to explanation as to why payment processors (the invisible third party present in literally any online exchange) deny service of transaction when it comes to adult content. Apparently, services that fall under the "adult" category have a very high risk of running a chargeback issue for various reasons, which can cause damage to the processor in one way or another, so in order to protect themselves from it, payment processors decide to flat-out deny them service instead. If that argument holds true or not feels irrelevant, as we can now see that this allows these processors to massively skew power into their favor by selectively denying service where they deem it necessary.
Hell, services like Patreon and SubscribeStar use their own chargeback protection systems (with subscribestar even stating it in their FAQ), so in reality, for those sites it is nothing but a forwarded reason to hide behind in order to not risk losing their entire business because the guys that have leverage decide to axe them. It's in a nutshell what brought in the OnlyFans controversy regarding the removal of their entire adult content.

Guess I'll have to buy me an annual pass then before too long, as I don't own a credit card and thus can't support via SS.

Evidently Subscribestar takes prepaid cards so you could theoretically walk into some store and get one of those, then use that.

For whatever reason I'm a bit nervous about whether or not that'd actually work though.

 

[Rangina]

Here's my unofficial android port of Lessons in Love v0.23.0 Part 2 (Sex Version)


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Oh please, check it out by yourself to be sure, but I installed it and it is the hug (no sex) version.
If you based it on the current compressed version (I think so because of the file size), it is wrong too...

I really want to play it but I have been teased two times in a row now... saaaad

 

[alex2011]

Oh please, check it out by yourself to be sure, but I installed it and it is the hug (no sex) version.
If you based it on the current compressed version (I think so because of the file size), it is wrong too...

I really want to play it but I have been teased two times in a row now... saaaad

Can you not play the uncompressed PC version? Genuinely curious as that sounds like the case from what you've been saying.

 

[Rangina]

Can you not play the uncompressed PC version? Genuinely curious as that sounds like the case from what you've been saying.

Man, It happened with that android version on my phone too.
Stop trying to say I'm lying or I'm wrong, I checked it out, I digged the files and it's the NO sex version.
I am reporting that both the compressed and the android versions highlighted in the main post as sex version are NOT.
I need someone that can check it and believe me, for me and the other people who will end up in that too, not someone like you that just says I'm who is wrong without checking it out just because you feel smarter. Ok?
And no, I can't download and install a game of 6.5gb that needs 13gb to be dezipped in a 30gb storage phone.

 

[Ashley young]

Copied from the Discord:

THIS IS AN SOS:
Despite there being literally zero adult content on Patreon, they have randomly decided to delete my page- removing roughly 80% of my income along with it.

I am hereby calling on all patrons to switch over their subscriptions to SubscribeStar because I have absolutely no idea what else to do at the moment.

2022 Has been a year comprised of nothing but headache after headache thus far, but I will not let it dissuade me from continuing to develop the game that brought all of us together.

There is still a chance the Patreon page gets reinstated seeing as I'm allowed an appeal and am fighting it as we speak, but given the service's likelihood to just try and fuck me whenever they please, I no longer encourage anyone to support me through them.

The future of the game depends on this move. I will not be able to keep creating it if I am no longer making a livable wage.

Subscribestar:

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This sucks big time, but Im afraid that this problem will persist on almost any and every platform that has PayPal / VISA as their payment handlers.
Sadly, if a game has any mention of any loli character, it will most likely be taken down. The Huggy Boy rework bought some time, but it was inevitable that some dickheads on a moral crusade would report it again, enough for Patreon to pull it down with no blood on their hands.
I wouldnt be surprised if Patreon also ends up cracking down and removing all sexual content from the platform (like OF) in the next 1 year or so.

 

[alex2011]

Man, It happened with that android version on my phone too.
Stop trying to say I'm lying or I'm wrong, I checked it out, I digged the files and it's the NO sex version.
I am reporting that both the compressed and the android versions highlighted in the main post as sex version are NOT.
I need someone that can check it and believe me, for me and the other people who will end up in that too, not someone like you that just says I'm who is wrong without checking it out just because you feel smarter. Ok?
And no, I can't download and install a game of 6.5gb that needs 13gb to be dezipped in a 30gb storage phone.

WOAH! All I have ever done was attempt to get your problem fixed and echo things that have been said by other people about the compressed version. Don't shoot the messenger.

Unfortunately, the mods have not been listening, you are not the first person to report the compressed link and it probably won't get fixed by your report if recent history with trying to get the link fixed has any bearing on the issue.

This sucks big time, but Im afraid that this problem will persist on almost any and every platform that has PayPal / VISA as their payment handlers.
Sadly, if a game has any mention of any loli character, it will most likely be taken down. The Huggy Boy rework bought some time, but it was inevitable that some dickheads on a moral crusade would report it again, enough for Patreon to pull it down with no blood on their hands.
I wouldnt be surprised if Patreon also ends up cracking down and removing all sexual content from the platform (like OF) in the next 1 year or so.

It will persist until creators rise against it, can't make money if nobody is using your service to begin with and even their dealings with PayPal and Visa can't save them. If all creators rise against this issue, platforms like Patreon will see the error even if it takes the burning of the dollar signs in their eyes, figuratively speaking, to do it. They can either stop this madness or they can start to go down in flames as creators move to other platforms that have already been blacklisted by PayPal and Visa, like SubscribeStar, in a mass exodus. I know it won't happen until far more creators are affected, far too late for this game, and that is assuming it does at all, but that would be a fix.

 

[Raf-Raf]

You might not be remembering as well because of the break you had from the game, resulting in them seeming more scary. Just a theory, not sure what is the actual cause.

It was a lot more scary w/o the sounds tbh since I had no idea what was going to happen.
The BGM during the happy scenes take away the creep factor but that's just me.

 

[alex2011]

It was a lot more scary w/o the sounds tbh since I had no idea what was going to happen.
The BGM during the happy scenes take away the creep factor but that's just me.

Really? I've always had the opposite effect happening when I play, and not just with this game, but with any piece of entertainment that uses music. Music is one of those things that is supposed to go into setting the mood of a particular scene, you'll see this done to great effect in pretty much any movie for example.

 

[cebs]

Oh please, check it out by yourself to be sure, but I installed it and it is the hug (no sex) version.
If you based it on the current compressed version (I think so because of the file size), it is wrong too...

I really want to play it but I have been teased two times in a row now... saaaad

My apologizes for that, yes i downloaded the compressed version that is on the sex "section"...
I'll try to fix it today...
Please understand that i can't play all the games i port otherwise i need an phone with 1tb of storage
Sorry again

 

[Raf-Raf]

Really? I've always had the opposite effect happening when I play, and not just with this game, but with any piece of entertainment that uses music. Music is one of those things that is supposed to go into setting the mood of a particular scene, you'll see this done to great effect in pretty much any movie for example.

I never play with sounds on in any game.
So when the first happy event just popped up in front of me, I lost it.
But with the BGM on, it's a bit meh because the silence made it creepy.


Also, the BGM for Sana's first time meeting white-haired nun lady is the same BGM from a game I don't want to remember.
Something about control and objects.

 

[Blackdragon0083]

Copied from the Discord:

THIS IS AN SOS:

Hey Subeles been following yours and selebus's work for a while and i am aware of their dislike for f95 it speaks a lot to how important it is for you all to relay Selebus's request to us. though i never subbed with patron for this very reason ill be picking up an annual game pass on the 1st, i hope Selebus's game is restored but if not then i hope subscribe star can continue to support you and i am happy to contribute how I can.

 

[alex2011]

Hey Subeles been following yours and selebus's work for a while and i am aware of their dislike for f95 it speaks a lot to how important it is for you all to relay Selebus's request to us. though i never subbed with patron for this very reason ill be picking up an annual game pass on the 1st, i hope Selebus's game is restored but if not then i hope subscribe star can continue to support you and i am happy to contribute how I can.

Well said, I too hope that his page will come back, as little hope as I can have given the past with Patreon. However, I have much more hope in the fan base, specifically patrons, that they will transfer over to SubscribeStar so that things can continue. You know, so he gets all of his income back and doesn't have to worry about more sites coming after him for content he wants in his game or whatever reason they use as an excuse.

I know he probably won't have ALL of us switch over, there are some patrons, not necessarily meaning patrons of this game, who ONLY use Patreon because of their payment options, payment options that are part of the problem.

Losing 70% of what he was making, which was already reduced before this complete page termination, has got to be taking a heavy toll on him. I cannot imagine, I don't even want to imagine the stress this is putting on him.

 

[kasatik_spb]

Hi!
Here is the Russian translation of Lessons in Love [v0.22.0].
This translation is "unofficial".

The link is: Here


***********************************************************************

Привет!
Это перевод на Русский язык визуальной новеллы Lessons in Love [v0.22.0].
Этот перевод является неофициальным.

Ссылка : Здесь

 

[Nesa67]

Try praying
[/QUOTE]


How many times?