I quit this game in a huff, threw it in the bin along with its appdata folder. I got yet another 'happy' scene and it pissed me off. I went away angry and brooded on it for a while, i couldn't understand why i was so bothered by it, sometimes a game just isn't for me, that's ok, others like it, all power to them. So why did this one get under my skin so much? It took me half a day to realise. It's cause there IS a good game here, well written with good pacing and interesting characters, but the constant meta comments in dialogue and injections of faux-deep philosophy with deliberately jarring screen tears just get in the way of it, it doesn't add anything, it just detracts and disrupts. Like some shitty DDLC rip-off without the interesting pay off. I have no idea what Selebus's goal is with it, maybe i didn't stick with it long enough, but it came off as pretentious and intellectually insulting. I do not expect or even request such stuff be removed, Selebus is more than free to do their own thing with their game, i just felt like commenting on my experience. I wanted to like this game, but it got in its own way and prevented me from doing so.
One thought I've had recently... not sure if I'd call it a concern, or a worry, necessarily, but I am curious how much content Sel's got planned for this game. Hearing "years" makes me apprehensive, because I guess I don't want the story to become too bloated, or meandering, you know? I've been a supporter for a while, and will continue to do so, but I do wonder sometimes if the story might end up getting to be too much if it goes for a looooong time
I quit this game in a huff, threw it in the bin along with its appdata folder. I got yet another 'happy' scene and it pissed me off. I went away angry and brooded on it for a while, i couldn't understand why i was so bothered by it, sometimes a game just isn't for me, that's ok, others like it, all power to them. So why did this one get under my skin so much? It took me half a day to realise. It's cause there IS a good game here, well written with good pacing and interesting characters, but the constant meta comments in dialogue and injections of faux-deep philosophy with deliberately jarring screen tears just get in the way of it, it doesn't add anything, it just detracts and disrupts. Like some shitty DDLC rip-off without the interesting pay off. I have no idea what Selebus's goal is with it, maybe i didn't stick with it long enough, but it came off as pretentious and intellectually insulting. I do not expect or even request such stuff be removed, Selebus is more than free to do their own thing with their game, i just felt like commenting on my experience. I wanted to like this game, but it got in its own way and prevented me from doing so.
The Happy scenes are definitely part of the overall story. You didn't like it, and that's fine, but I thought it might be helpful to try and give my perspective on them.
They exist to give hints as to what's really going on - Is Sensei descending into madness? Is this just a thin veneer that hides the real world? If so, is the real world the more normal looking place, or the happy scenes? Is it the gods that keep getting mentioned trying to force their will on the people of Kumon-mi? etc. It adds to the mystery, and is actually a part of the story. It's where the horror aspect of the game comes from.
It's perfectly okay not to like this. Like I said, I just wanted to help you understand its intended place in the story from the perspective of someone who wasn't put off by it.
One thought I've had recently... not sure if I'd call it a concern, or a worry, necessarily, but I am curious how much content Sel's got planned for this game. Hearing "years" makes me apprehensive, because I guess I don't want the story to become too bloated, or meandering, you know? I've been a supporter for a while, and will continue to do so, but I do wonder sometimes if the story might end up getting to be too much if it goes for a looooong time
Why does this thread need regular piracy discussions? It's not like anyone changes their mind. Some will never pay and will always pirate, some will always pay and some only pay occasionally.
It's almost as bad as the NTR discussion that some threads here can't go without.
I prefer the weird LiL Lore discussions in this thread, even though I can't even keep up most of the time.
It doesn't need it, but we're doing it anyway, now by developer request, you could say. It isn't about changing minds for me, it's about letting people know what negative effects are going on as a result of their actions. Education is effective on any topic, getting them to stop would be a bonus, though.
I quit this game in a huff, threw it in the bin along with its appdata folder. I got yet another 'happy' scene and it pissed me off. I went away angry and brooded on it for a while, i couldn't understand why i was so bothered by it, sometimes a game just isn't for me, that's ok, others like it, all power to them. So why did this one get under my skin so much? It took me half a day to realise. It's cause there IS a good game here, well written with good pacing and interesting characters, but the constant meta comments in dialogue and injections of faux-deep philosophy with deliberately jarring screen tears just get in the way of it, it doesn't add anything, it just detracts and disrupts. Like some shitty DDLC rip-off without the interesting pay off. I have no idea what Selebus's goal is with it, maybe i didn't stick with it long enough, but it came off as pretentious and intellectually insulting. I do not expect or even request such stuff be removed, Selebus is more than free to do their own thing with their game, i just felt like commenting on my experience. I wanted to like this game, but it got in its own way and prevented me from doing so.
One thought I've had recently... not sure if I'd call it a concern, or a worry, necessarily, but I am curious how much content Sel's got planned for this game. Hearing "years" makes me apprehensive, because I guess I don't want the story to become too bloated, or meandering, you know? I've been a supporter for a while, and will continue to do so, but I do wonder sometimes if the story might end up getting to be too much if it goes for a looooong time
Saying 'a lot' would probably still be an insane understatement. This thing seems to be essentially going fora novel in VN form, though the word count has already passed some of the highest count works known to mankind, like the bible. Who knows, he might be well on his way to setting a record with it.
The Happy scenes are definitely part of the overall story. You didn't like it, and that's fine, but I thought it might be helpful to try and give my perspective on them.
They exist to give hints as to what's really going on - Is Sensei descending into madness? Is this just a thin veneer that hides the real world? If so, is the real world the more normal looking place, or the happy scenes? Is it the gods that keep getting mentioned trying to force their will on the people of Kumon-mi? etc. It adds to the mystery, and is actually a part of the story. It's where the horror aspect of the game comes from.
It's perfectly okay not to like this. Like I said, I just wanted to help you understand its intended place in the story from the perspective of someone who wasn't put off by it.
Nah, it won't. I have total confidence that Selebus will see this through with the same quality from start to finish. It's not like this is a money project, he's making it because he wants to, the money aspect only comes in where we get involved, but he has every intention of finishing the game. It is a passion project.
The Happy scenes are definitely part of the overall story. You didn't like it, and that's fine, but I thought it might be helpful to try and give my perspective on them.
They exist to give hints as to what's really going on - Is Sensei descending into madness? Is this just a thin veneer that hides the real world? If so, is the real world the more normal looking place, or the happy scenes? Is it the gods that keep getting mentioned trying to force their will on the people of Kumon-mi? etc. It adds to the mystery, and is actually a part of the story. It's where the horror aspect of the game comes from.
It's perfectly okay not to like this. Like I said, I just wanted to help you understand its intended place in the story from the perspective of someone who wasn't put off by it.
Yeah i'm totally cool with others liking it, we're all different people. Thanks for being respectful, i was honestly expecting to cop some serious hate for saying something negative, as usually happens on the internet. Anyway, good luck to everyone who likes this game.
Yeah i'm totally cool with others liking it, we're all different people. Thanks for being respectful, i was honestly expecting to cop some serious hate for saying something negative, as usually happens on the internet. Anyway, good luck to everyone who likes this game.
Nah, this game, and the Denpa genre in general, just isn't for everyone. There's always going to be people who don't like something, there would probably be people who don't like that it wasn't a Denpa game if it wasn't one. You can't please everyone and the game typically suffers in general if a developer even tries to.
Why does this thread need regular piracy discussions? It's not like anyone changes their mind. Some will never pay and will always pirate, some will always pay and some only pay occasionally.
I don't expect to change anyone's mind, but I respect Selebus' work enough to try. I am always amazed by the mental gymnastics that people can go through to argue that a) piracy somehow isn't wrong, or b) piracy is wrong, but this specific form of piracy I am doing is somehow not wrong.
I have <checks> 15,000 or so songs on my computer. Every one of them I have either purchased through iTunes or uploaded to my PC from a CD that I purchased. When I was a teenager, I definitely borrowed cassettes (to date myself) from friends and made copies of them. because I was a teenager and teenagers are idiots. But I have been an adult for many, many years now and I understand things on the moral level of a adult, not a child. I understand that if I cannot afford something, I do without. I understand that taking something without paying for it is wrong. I understand that I am not entitled to instantly gratify every urge and desire that I have, especially at the expense of others.
Yeah i'm totally cool with others liking it, we're all different people. Thanks for being respectful, i was honestly expecting to cop some serious hate for saying something negative, as usually happens on the internet. Anyway, good luck to everyone who likes this game.
I don't expect to change anyone's mind, but I respect Selebus' work enough to try. I am always amazed by the mental gymnastics that people can go through to argue that a) piracy somehow isn't wrong, or b) piracy is wrong, but this specific form of piracy I am doing is somehow not wrong.
I have <checks> 15,000 or so songs on my computer. Every one of them I have either purchased through iTunes or uploaded to my PC from a CD that I purchased. When I was a teenager, I definitely borrowed cassettes (to date myself) from friends and made copies of them. because I was a teenager and teenagers are idiots. But I have been an adult for many, many years now and I understand things on the moral level of a adult, not a child. I understand that if I cannot afford something, I do without. I understand that taking something without paying for it is wrong. I understand that I am not entitled to instantly gratify every urge and desire that I have, especially at the expense of others.
For me, I interpreted Selebus's most recent comment as him outright wanting us to speak out, so I am doing as he wants. That said, my only intent is to educate about the harm it causes. I actually haven't heard a whole lot of argument A here, other threads, yes, but here it's mostly the use of the 'this is a piracy forum' argument, which doesn't really do much. I have actually never heard argument B, everyone here does seem to acknowledge what they are doing is wrong.
I have most of my music from CDs as well, very little from digital sources because I like to actually have physical media and I don't pirate music at all since there is no real issue with availability.
I've pretty much vowed to stick with it even if I get seriously uncomfortable. I've already had some discomfort from some of the 'happy' scenes, but you already kind of said it, the most severe is yet to come. This ride is far from over.
The only thing I have to say on the piracy discussion is that:
1) I'm perfectly okay with waiting for the free release of the content. I very much appreciate that Selebus releases their content for free, and thus am happy to wait for it.
2) If it is leaked early, I will download it early. This is because Selebus has said before, they aren't as bothered by the people doing the downloading as they are by the people doing the leaking.
Waiting once it's leaked basically means completely ignoring this thread until I get to play it, or getting things spoiled. I don't have the energy for that effort of will. This is not a call for people to leak the content in any way - I'll never ask that that happen. As I mentioned, I'm perfectly content to wait for the free release.
I've grown tired of people bringing this topic back because they feel like going on yet another round of condemnation or just to make excuses and justify themselves to complete strangers on the Internet, of all places.
Stop. You won't change any minds. Everything one could possibly say has been said already. Let the corpse of a long dead horse, buried somewhere underneath our feet, rot in peace.
I don't expect to change anyone's mind, but I respect Selebus' work enough to try. I am always amazed by the mental gymnastics that people can go through to argue that a) piracy somehow isn't wrong, or b) piracy is wrong, but this specific form of piracy I am doing is somehow not wrong.
I have <checks> 15,000 or so songs on my computer. Every one of them I have either purchased through iTunes or uploaded to my PC from a CD that I purchased. When I was a teenager, I definitely borrowed cassettes (to date myself) from friends and made copies of them. because I was a teenager and teenagers are idiots. But I have been an adult for many, many years now and I understand things on the moral level of a adult, not a child. I understand that if I cannot afford something, I do without. I understand that taking something without paying for it is wrong. I understand that I am not entitled to instantly gratify every urge and desire that I have, especially at the expense of others.
The only thing I have to say on the piracy discussion is that:
1) I'm perfectly okay with waiting for the free release of the content. I very much appreciate that Selebus releases their content for free, and thus am happy to wait for it.
2) If it is leaked early, I will download it early. This is because Selebus has said before, they aren't as bothered by the people doing the downloading as they are by the people doing the leaking.
Waiting once it's leaked basically means completely ignoring this thread until I get to play it, or getting things spoiled. I don't have the energy for that effort of will. This is not a call for people to leak the content in any way - I'll never ask that that happen. As I mentioned, I'm perfectly content to wait for the free release.
1. As would I be if I wasn't a patron. In my defense, as weak as my defense is, I didn't know it was getting a free release at all when I was pirating this game.
2. Nope, not me, though I already get the early release legitimately. The thing is, and Selebus didn't cover this part, the leaks and the downloads are connected. If leakers realize there are people downloading, that there is demand for the game outside of the patron realm, they will supply it. By being bothered by the leakers, he is bothered by the downloaders by extension of this connection between the two. You can have leakers without downloaders, though the leakers will stop pretty quick once they realize there is no demand, but you cannot have downloaders without leakers, it's a two way street.
I typically ignore the thread until I play anyway, sometimes I just don't have the time to play immediately, but do have the time to visit the forum.
I've grown tired of people bringing this topic back because they feel like going on yet another round of condemnation or just to make excuses and justify themselves to complete strangers on the Internet, of all places.
Stop. You won't change any minds. Everything one could possibly say has been said already. Let the corpse of a long dead horse, buried somewhere underneath our feet, rot in peace.
I keep my piracy to absolute last resort territory. If I cannot ever legitimately get a game, I pirate it. Games like this, knowing what I know about it now, I would not because there is no reason driving me toward piracy. The other case would be one where, even with the funds to buy it, I cannot because it is not available to me legitimately, but this only has a time limit.
I actually pay for very little of what I consume, a vast majority of my content is pirated. I have to agree, that is a huge library of music, I would hate to see that number in file size.
It does in the early days, when a game is vastly unknown and needs the exposure. This game does not need it at this point, so piracy serves no positive purpose and, at best, served a neutral purpose due to the canceling out of the drop in new patron sign ups that come with piracy and said exposure. Humans typically flock toward the easiest method to get something, paying vs not paying, not paying is going to win without a doubt. That means less people actually supporting the developer.
I appreciate the chill attitude, it's nice having a calm discussion.
Other than the disturbing scenes I wasn't prepared for (because I hadn't read the tags), the game is overall nice. I'm an hour into playing, taking my time to read most of the story, and I'm here to say that I'm enjoying the game. Keep up the good work, Selebus.
Wish I got involved in this thread back when it was like sub-150 replies, should've realized it was gonna blow up big. Gotta catch up on the latest build but all I have to say for now is... Yumi still best girl.
Yes, I can. It got exposure, which is a positive. It cost the game new patrons, which is a negative. Those cancel out to become neutral. Now, without the positive of exposure, it is serving a negative purpose. 1.6K patrons of 3M views is ONLY 0.053333333333333%, not even 1% are patrons, so the views are meaningless, and that's not taking into account that not every single patron came from here, which lowers the number even further. You're giving wait too much credit to the pirate community, myself included. Sure, some will do what you say, but most won't because it goes against their reason for pirating in the first place. The pirates who only do it out of a lack of legitimate options are not in the majority.
Support on Patreon isn't about need, it's about whether it is deserved. In this case, it most certainly is. This game goes significantly above the level of practically every other game here, mostly because the majority of the competition here are porn games whereas this just happens to have sex scenes.
or just didn't enjoy the game that much and don't consider they should pay a dime for it
I know I'm nitpicking on this, but the way you worded it makes it sound like the people who "didn't enjoy it that much" can't pay when that isn't necessarily true. That's not a case of can't pay, that's a case of won't pay, there is a major difference. I mean, yeah, this is a pirate site, so that's fine, sort of. It isn't morally correct and it does harm the developer economically as he does lose potential patrons when people decide to pirate instead. I'm just pointing that out, though, the people that won't probably can pay and just refuse.
His Itch.io, Patreon, and SubscribeStar are all publicly accessible, VNDB has a page about the game, there are several non-pirate sources of information.
Other than the disturbing scenes I wasn't prepared for (because I hadn't read the tags), the game is overall nice. I'm an hour into playing, taking my time to read most of the story, and I'm here to say that I'm enjoying the game. Keep up the good work, Selebus.
Wish I got involved in this thread back when it was like sub-150 replies, should've realized it was gonna blow up big. Gotta catch up on the latest build but all I have to say for now is... Yumi still best girl.
She's still at the bottom of my list, right next to Sensei. She is improving, though, while he seems to have moments and then almost immediately slips right back
