Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.44.0] [Selebus]

[Xiondingens]

Remind me what happened in the locker room. I forgot

Sumo gets blackmailed by wannabe daughter, which ends up the reason why she did beat the shit out of her later and did return to her mobster family for a while.

 

[DeSkel15]

I'm surprised there isn't Ayane in the original question - she always struck me as a very kind character, just a bit more developed. Meaning, she had encountered hostility more and learned to stand her ground (e.g. against Kirin), which may make her look less kind (but doesn't really).

Since there was Noriko in the question and since I forcefully injected Ayane here, here's smth I've been thinking about: am I the only one who thinks Noriko and Ayane basically have the same personality, just with different life situations?
1. Both are kind to a fault. Ayane deeply loves people around her and seeing them getting hurt really gets to her, like finding Ami stabbed in the last reset or Maya getting reset now. Her default attitude to all around her is exceptionally friendly and, unlike other friendly girls, there is not as much room for jealosy (Chika) or anger (Rin comes to mind). Her kindness hurts her as she cares about Sensei to the point of tolerating him cheating on her and accepts other girls being in love with him.
Meanwhile, Noriko being a martyr is explicitly stated in the story, and it is quite convincing, so I don't even feel like recounting arguments.
2. Both are brave. Ayane keeps positive attitude in the face of timeloops and apocalypse, stands up to Kirin, and does a million more little things, like driving away Yumi when she picks on Futaba in the shower, etc. Noriko never gave up on searching for Sensei and was brave enough to show him Niki's old letters when she felt it could endanger their relationship but was a right thing to do.
3. Both are cheerful and friendly. Ayane and Noriko light up the room and make friends with the most unlikely characters, like Ayane with Sana or Noriko with Yumi.
4. Both obsess about Sensei and are fake yanderes initially. These are more superficial qualities, but they work even better in terms of proving similarities. Ayane and Noriko are the only ones who openly proclaimed their undying love for Sensei as soon as they got the chance. And they both at the start of their storylines seemed the craziest and the most fixated on him. Heck, as stereotypical yanderes they are the only ones known for constantly carrying weapons (Noriko's knife and Ayane's various assortment of guns and swords).

I do feel like they're the same character, just with different quirks and places in the story. There are, of course, little things unique to each one of them, e.g. Ayane wanting to have a shit ton of kids and Noriko being an idealistic rebel with creative (musical) drive. But these are details, and I feel like the only real differences are circumstantial - their situations being different. Noriko's story seems to be about unreciprocated (yet) love, being a martyr and a constant second place, and her keeping her rightiousness and idealism in spite of this. Ayane, I feel, is more about loving in the face of adversity - blackmail, cheating, competition.

And I wouldn't say that there is something wrong with these two having the same basic characteristics - unique situations are enough for their stories to play out differently and in an entertaining way. I'm just trying to sort out my own confusion about this, as I feel like I enjoy Noriko the most out of all the characters, yet there is Ayane, who is nearly identical to her in most regards, but she is somehow a bit lower on my tierlist.
What do you people think?

I think Ayane's kindness is more like a mask she wears.

The real Ayane wants Sensei all for herself, has tried to fuck him on the beds of her best friends, possibly stole Ami's first kiss to cover up her lies, and there was a Main Event that became a deleted scene called 'Horrible People' where she sucked Sensei off under his desk while Ami was talking about wanting to spend time with him, which more or less emphasized that Ayane kind of sucks in more ways than one:

Spoiler

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(Probably too much, hence it becoming a deleted scene while Sel probably prefers it being more subtle.)

Ayane seems to be kind of a shitty person deep down, which may be implied by her causing trouble for businesses, manslaughtering Janitors, and lying to and/or using everyone who's there for her, like Ami and Sana. (Keep in mind Ami and Sana have likely been there for her since her mother left her at 11)

When it comes down to it, Ayane simply seems out for herself:

Spoiler

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And there's nothing we can do to stop her:

Spoiler

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Frankly, Ayane may have even played a part in Maya's crumbling based off how she was acting before it:

Spoiler

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And how Yasu implied she knew Ayane wanted to take Maya's place:

Spoiler

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Which she kind of has, albeit probably not in the way she wanted.

Noriko on the other hand wishes Ayane luck in her pursuit of Sensei:

Spoiler

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And basically wants everyone to be happy, whether it's Ami, Maya, or Uta:

Spoiler

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It's also been shown that Noriko is more perceptive than Ayane:

Spoiler

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Or at least more Empathetic.

Overall: Ayane and Noriko are similar in their outspoken love for Sensei, but are notably different in how they spend their time, think, and treat others.

 

[Dc345]

I'm surprised there isn't Ayane in the original question - she always struck me as a very kind character, just a bit more developed. Meaning, she had encountered hostility more and learned to stand her ground (e.g. against Kirin), which may make her look less kind (but doesn't really).

Since there was Noriko in the question and since I forcefully injected Ayane here, here's smth I've been thinking about: am I the only one who thinks Noriko and Ayane basically have the same personality, just with different life situations?
1. Both are kind to a fault. Ayane deeply loves people around her and seeing them getting hurt really gets to her, like finding Ami stabbed in the last reset or Maya getting reset now. Her default attitude to all around her is exceptionally friendly and, unlike other friendly girls, there is not as much room for jealosy (Chika) or anger (Rin comes to mind). Her kindness hurts her as she cares about Sensei to the point of tolerating him cheating on her and accepts other girls being in love with him.
Meanwhile, Noriko being a martyr is explicitly stated in the story, and it is quite convincing, so I don't even feel like recounting arguments.
2. Both are brave. Ayane keeps positive attitude in the face of timeloops and apocalypse, stands up to Kirin, and does a million more little things, like driving away Yumi when she picks on Futaba in the shower, etc. Noriko never gave up on searching for Sensei and was brave enough to show him Niki's old letters when she felt it could endanger their relationship but was a right thing to do.
3. Both are cheerful and friendly. Ayane and Noriko light up the room and make friends with the most unlikely characters, like Ayane with Sana or Noriko with Yumi.
4. Both obsess about Sensei and are fake yanderes initially. These are more superficial qualities, but they work even better in terms of proving similarities. Ayane and Noriko are the only ones who openly proclaimed their undying love for Sensei as soon as they got the chance. And they both at the start of their storylines seemed the craziest and the most fixated on him. Heck, as stereotypical yanderes they are the only ones known for constantly carrying weapons (Noriko's knife and Ayane's various assortment of guns and swords).

I do feel like they're the same character, just with different quirks and places in the story. There are, of course, little things unique to each one of them, e.g. Ayane wanting to have a shit ton of kids and Noriko being an idealistic rebel with creative (musical) drive. But these are details, and I feel like the only real differences are circumstantial - their situations being different. Noriko's story seems to be about unreciprocated (yet) love, being a martyr and a constant second place, and her keeping her rightiousness and idealism in spite of this. Ayane, I feel, is more about loving in the face of adversity - blackmail, cheating, competition.

And I wouldn't say that there is something wrong with these two having the same basic characteristics - unique situations are enough for their stories to play out differently and in an entertaining way. I'm just trying to sort out my own confusion about this, as I feel like I enjoy Noriko the most out of all the characters, yet there is Ayane, who is nearly identical to her in most regards, but she is somehow a bit lower on my tierlist.
What do you people think?

The Sensei Love Squad is on the opposite end of the kindness spectrum. Like in the same group as Kirin and Io.

 

[joryuken]

Don't deliberately spoil shit for people dude. Even a vague suggestion still fucks with a persons expectations and experience.

you know what you are right (no really you are) I will delete my comment as I said it in the vain of poking fun at myself did not really think of the ramifications of it

 

[joryuken]

It's not because it's a spoiler that that post pisses me off, we talk mostly freely here, you come in after a patch you'll probably get spoiled, what shits me is deliberately spoiling the story for someone, going out of your way to to spoil someone is just a dick move, a complete and total dick move.

I agree and was a very stupid move on my part really I do apologize I will be more careful from now on

 

[ccxvidonaferens]

I agree and was a very stupid move on my part really I do apologize I will be more careful from now on

Hey, at least you didn't let slip that Godzilla turns up as a love interest.... Oops.

 

[joryuken]

once again apologies now I feel like an asshat *I am and there is no other way around it really apologies

 

[fdsasdf_p]

Since Sel wont answer the tough question how are these 5 ranked respectively?

Spoiler: Rank

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Of course he won't answer it (I wouldn't either in his shoes), not something easily quantifiable and not something even half of his crowd would agree completely upon any said answer; just look at the thread lol.

But, I'd say Touka, Noriko, and Karin are on the higher end and not in a particular order because the displayed kindness levels among the three aren't that distinguishable to me imo. Maybe Noriko would peak a little bit because she's a little close to unreasonably kind.

Futaba's kindness gives me strong people pleaser/feeble personality vibes that lead her to doing nice things so others would stay off her back. But I'd readdress that there is nothing wrong with it. Kindness is kindness at the end of the day and that's all that matters, but I guess it just strikes me ever so slightly differently compared to the first three.

Aaaand I have no words for Uta unfortunately; why is she here . The girl is nice and sweet, and cheerful enough to glue people together, but I don't think kind is the word I would use on her, and she is in my eyes not even close to be comparable to the other four.

I'm surprised there isn't Ayane in the original question - she always struck me as a very kind character, just a bit more developed. Meaning, she had encountered hostility more and learned to stand her ground (e.g. against Kirin), which may make her look less kind (but doesn't really).

Since there was Noriko in the question and since I forcefully injected Ayane here, here's smth I've been thinking about: am I the only one who thinks Noriko and Ayane basically have the same personality, just with different life situations?
1. Both are kind to a fault. Ayane deeply loves people around her and seeing them getting hurt really gets to her, like finding Ami stabbed in the last reset or Maya getting reset now. Her default attitude to all around her is exceptionally friendly and, unlike other friendly girls, there is not as much room for jealosy (Chika) or anger (Rin comes to mind). Her kindness hurts her as she cares about Sensei to the point of tolerating him cheating on her and accepts other girls being in love with him.
Meanwhile, Noriko being a martyr is explicitly stated in the story, and it is quite convincing, so I don't even feel like recounting arguments.
2. Both are brave. Ayane keeps positive attitude in the face of timeloops and apocalypse, stands up to Kirin, and does a million more little things, like driving away Yumi when she picks on Futaba in the shower, etc. Noriko never gave up on searching for Sensei and was brave enough to show him Niki's old letters when she felt it could endanger their relationship but was a right thing to do.
3. Both are cheerful and friendly. Ayane and Noriko light up the room and make friends with the most unlikely characters, like Ayane with Sana or Noriko with Yumi.
4. Both obsess about Sensei and are fake yanderes initially. These are more superficial qualities, but they work even better in terms of proving similarities. Ayane and Noriko are the only ones who openly proclaimed their undying love for Sensei as soon as they got the chance. And they both at the start of their storylines seemed the craziest and the most fixated on him. Heck, as stereotypical yanderes they are the only ones known for constantly carrying weapons (Noriko's knife and Ayane's various assortment of guns and swords).

I do feel like they're the same character, just with different quirks and places in the story. There are, of course, little things unique to each one of them, e.g. Ayane wanting to have a shit ton of kids and Noriko being an idealistic rebel with creative (musical) drive. But these are details, and I feel like the only real differences are circumstantial - their situations being different. Noriko's story seems to be about unreciprocated (yet) love, being a martyr and a constant second place, and her keeping her rightiousness and idealism in spite of this. Ayane, I feel, is more about loving in the face of adversity - blackmail, cheating, competition.

And I wouldn't say that there is something wrong with these two having the same basic characteristics - unique situations are enough for their stories to play out differently and in an entertaining way. I'm just trying to sort out my own confusion about this, as I feel like I enjoy Noriko the most out of all the characters, yet there is Ayane, who is nearly identical to her in most regards, but she is somehow a bit lower on my tierlist.
What do you people think?

I agree that Ayane should also be put into this little contest due to her act of fending off Yumi for Futaba like you've mentioned, being immediately accommodating to Miku's situation (Pry With a Smile), and checking on Ami with seemingly genuine worry in heart and not accusation after learning the bad uncle truth (The Way it Scatters). In fact I think she at least should be ranked higher than Uta.

But I think she would definitely lose to Noriko in this contest because Ayane is only reasonably nice. Anything wrong with that? Absolutely nothing.

 

[Xiondingens]

Just like that, this is the whole conflict in Noriko's story, where she can't help but be jealous of her sister, yet tries to make her own path. Both Ayane and Noriko handle this with grace.

But one could also argue that Noriko's actions are fueled by fear in that regard. What if all that keeps Akira from running away again is his reconnection to Nikki? How could she risk loosing him again by actually doing anything that could risk that connection?

 

[Xiondingens]

Are Ayane and Kirin even still enemies? I mean sure, the friendship is gone for good. But i dont remember anything lately that would show those two to be enemies.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

Since Sel wont answer the tough question how are these 5 ranked respectively?

Spoiler: Rank

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1. Touka
2. Noriko
3. Futaba
4. Uta
5. Kirin

to those surprised to see futaba on the top 3, being gentle is not the same as being altruistic. I feel like it's very close between Noriko and Futaba, because while Futaba let's a lot of shit slide, it does feel like she has a very small sassy side.
Noriko when dissected properly is actually one of the kindest characters in the game. She got verbally abused by Prime maya and fake maya, she gets treated like shit all the time by multiple characters and always let's everything slide and just wants everybody to be happy regardless of what they do to her.
Nobody would've reacted the way she did when she found a certain uncle getting touchy with his niece while hiding in the closet.
Touka is the most kindest and altruistic person out of any character in the game. She is literally the beacon of "mommy" and the one who tries to take care of everybody, even if they are scumbags. Just because she has character and can be strict doesn't mean she cant be kind at the same time. She will go out of her way to make things hard for herself if it means being able to help someone. She will literally let anything slide and forgive you for all and will support you even financially, and she would do this even if she wasn't rich, in my opinion.

Uta just isn't as kind as the top 3 and Kirin doesn't need an explanation

EDIT:
I missread Karin for Kirin.

This whole list goes to shit now.

ill just put Karin top 2 behind touka. She really will do anything to help anyone. Could possibly compete with Touka.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

The most recent height chart wont render for some reason so here is the older one.

Spoiler: Heights

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funny how Miku, Ami and Kirin give off loli vibes whilst being taller than Maya, who doesn't give off loli vibes.

 

[DeSkel15]

I think Ayane wanting to have sex on Ami's bed is probably the strongest counterargument to her kindness. But I always wrote it off as some mix of horniness and confusion, like acting out some guilty and forbidden desire. And it was still early on in her story (Ch2?), way before she found out about the time loops and stood up to Kirin. And even then she seemed remorseful. IIRC, she was then under a strong influence of the whole Kirin situation, and this feels like smth Kirin would do to assert dominance and get a secret petty revenge. It's as if Ayane was further poisoned by Kirin. But I view Ayane's later development as rejecting this way of doing things.

I should also correct myself on topic of her lacking jealosy. No, she definitely feels jealous of Maya and, at times, of Ami. What I initially meant when comparing her to Chika was, that unlike Chika, I don't remember Ayane getting actively hostile to other girls because of this. And I don't remember Ayane letting jealosy guide her actions (can't recall if Chika did this, but the point is not in Chika, but in Ayane not letting jealosy make her do truly bad things). I see Noriko the same way - she is very jealous of Niki and others, but never lets herself make an immoral choice due to this.


Noriko is very similar here. Just like Ayane, she wants to be the one. A notable difference would be her sex positivity and agreeing to let people lilke Kirin have her way with Sensei, but at the end of the day she wants to be the only one he really loves.


Not sure what you meant here. I interpreted this as Ayane referencing her encounter with Himawari and Himawari's promise that all shall be well and Ami wouldn't hurt her, so I didn't notice anything hostile to Maya here.


I wouldn't contrast Ayane to some extent wanting to take Maya's place with Noriko wishing her competitors good luck in a spirit of sportsmanship. Because here I see some of the clearest similarities:
- We're not told that Ayane actually wants to replace Maya and works towards that; it's implied that's what she wishes sometimes and probably feels guilty about. Just like that, this is the whole conflict in Noriko's story, where she can't help but be jealous of her sister, yet tries to make her own path. Both Ayane and Noriko handle this with grace.
- Noriko wishes Ayane good luck just like Ayane accepts Sana's feeling for Sensei in one of the recent updates. This is actually quite common at this point in the story and is similar not only between these two.

To sum up, I still see very strong similarities in their core character traits, to the point of them being almost the same character thrust into different life situations & problems and forced to develop in different ways. Among the girls in the class, for me these two are the easiest pick for two of the most similar characters

Ayane actually tried to convince Sensei to fuck her on Ami's bed twice (first try got interrupted by Ami), and Sensei can fuck Ayane on Sana's bed towards the end of Chapter 3, as well, which seemed to also be Ayane's idea:

Spoiler

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The Kirin stuff is completely optional and doesn't really matter much because of it. Kirin and Ayane can even still be friends currently.

Nothing makes this look good.

Ayane refused to use Sara's name because she saw her as a threat once, but yeah she's not really threatening to jump people like Chika. Although she very clearly does not want to share or let anyone else have a chance with Sensei. Noriko actually supports others, including her sister, in trying to get with Sensei. Noriko wants to be loved, but being the only one isn't really the plan, as she seems to be perfectly fine with sharing him. Ayane also does get a little hostile when she thinks someone is trying to "steal" Sensei:

Spoiler

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Ayane spent hours with the Shapeshifter and was talking about why the world is like this when she said it was good news for her:

Spoiler

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Anyway, the point was she might have helped kill off Maya Prime, to steal her place, but it's not entirely clear yet. If so, she should at the least feel guilty.

Ayane acknowledging that someone, even Sana, wants Sensei, isn't anywhere close to Noriko wishing her own rivals luck, and wanting them to be happy. We also haven't seen the actual fallout of Sana admitting her feelings to Ayane (Ayane definitely acted strange). Sana actually seemed to grow closer to Noriko after it, ironically.

Overall: Until Noriko goes out of her way to fuck Sensei on Niki's or even Kirin's bed, I don't really see how they are all that comparable, beyond being outspoken about their love for Sensei. Ayane even seems far more stalkerish. Having pics of Sensei sleeping on her wall, and recently casually pulling out a copy of his phone.

Ayane's also straight, rich, and studies karate for fun. Noriko is bi, works, and delivers food to the homeless. Ayane carries guns. Noriko carries a pocket knife. Ayane will choke and slap people. Noriko hasn't even hurt a fly as far as I recall. Even when it comes to diets they are different.

If Noriko was actually like Ayane, Kirin would probably have issues with her like she does with Ayane and Karin.

Frankly, I see Kirin and Ayane as even more similar. Both get off on defiling the things of others, will betray the trust of their friends for Sensei's dick, are neglected by their parents, and gave away their virginity as soon as they could.

Edit: Ayane and Kirin also both have "loli" friends they are close with and actually tried to preserve their innocence at the start, until they became corrupted anyway. (Sana vs Miku)

 

[DeSkel15]

Are Ayane and Kirin even still enemies? I mean sure, the friendship is gone for good. But i dont remember anything lately that would show those two to be enemies.

They are actually still friends if you missed the Kirin Blackmail stuff. Unfortunately it was an optional arc and doesn't necessarily matter so far.

 

[Riolol]

funny how Miku, Ami and Kirin give off loli vibes whilst being taller than Maya, who doesn't give off loli vibes.

I always assumed Miku was shorter

 

[lolbob3]

Also, all this talk about Ayane and Noriko made me realize smth hilarious. If they really are two most similar main characters, then Noriko's best friend, Kirin, is Ayane's worst enemy. Just like Noriko's lifelong foe, Maya, is one of Ayane's closest friends (and probably the closest one in Ch3, when Ami loses her marbles for good).
We need more interactions between these two and their friend groups

Now we just need Maya to become best friends with Kirin, is something like that even possible?

Hmm maybe New Maya could walk in on Kirin while Akira is banging her, that would be interesting too now that I think about it, maybe after they somehow become friends too.

 

[Xiondingens]

They are actually still friends if you missed the Kirin Blackmail stuff. Unfortunately it was an optional arc and doesn't necessarily matter so far.

Oh yeah, you are right. I completely forgot that this was optional. And now that i think about it, that was the wrong decision. Because now he cant really do anything with it because it was optional. What a missed oppurtunity.

 

[Dc345]

Spoiler: Kaori Event Titles

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[Xiondingens]

Omg, i just did realize that it is even worse. Because it is optional and the game so linear, they are now both in a quantum state of been enemies and friends at the same time. So their friendship effectively still "ended" because they will have no big events together as friends, because that would be an event that wouldnt be impossible on the 100% route where they are no longer friends. And they also can no longer hang out with each other, because that as well would contradict their current state in the 100% route. So except maybe some lippservice, they are no longer actual friends. And that fact is what made it so easy to forget that choice was optional, because the fallout will be felt in the overall story either way.

Oh god, this really doesnt feel like it had been planned out at all.

 

[k1n5l4y3r]

funny how Miku, Ami and Kirin give off loli vibes whilst being taller than Maya, who doesn't give off loli vibes.

For me Maya gives off huge lolibaba vibes.