Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.45.0] [Selebus]

[DeSkel15]

Well, I can assume Nodoka had good intentions. I can even assume that Nodoka made Futaba go through this to help her. But what i can not assume is that Nodoka doesn't know first thing about Futaba's insecurities. And Nodoka definetly capable of liying in Futaba's face, she is a psyco after all.

Nodoka knows, she just didn't seem to take it into account. It's likely the same reason she's sleeping with Sensei behind Futaba's back (another "reason to hate her" I don't think anyone's mentioned). Nodoka doesn't seem to see the logic of putting the wants of others above her own wants.

That's one thing I can dislike. Nodoka comes first to Nodoka:

Spoiler

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At least she's honest about it though.

Still, Nodoka definitely didn't seem to want nor try to hurt Futaba:

Spoiler

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I'm sure the next Nodoka event will be quite interesting. She'll either be remorseful, or I might need to revaluate how I see her.

 

[DeSkel15]

My brain after today/night/whatever the fuck:

Spoiler

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[Bingoogus]

My brain after today/night/whatever the fuck:

Spoiler

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Yeah, i was thinking earlier that you were running with all engines on max.

 

[ElukiaTV]

It's alright warrior, you stand tall defending your opinion. Take the deserved rest.

 

[JelF547]

Nodoka knows, she just didn't seem to take it into account

Yep, she did take it into account when she hid that book from Futaba, but didn't take it into account when publised that book. Does it really sounds like

not understanding others

? It more like not give a single fuck about other's feelings when she does not want it

 

[BlackDays]

Do all of you play from a save where you opened Uta's loli pic and just recollected the points or cheated them back in?
Because i reverted to a save where i did not open the "sms" so i had not to do that and played from "a clean slate" there on.

The reason i come up with that is, that, if Akira never saw the pic/s, how would he know how loli Uta looks like?
Isn't it even pointed towards in the conversation/inner monologue/narration that he saw them?
Is this a plot error or are things possible to still happen offscreen?

Because if canon always still happens offscreen, i'd had some more thoughts about "The White Oak Door".

 

[fdsasdf_p]

Off topic stuff

I suddenly feel bewildered by how Sensei managed the most recent Miku mild-OD situation. His panic level is so apparent that it puts his another issue, that is he fucking his teenager students, to shame.
(Seriously, the unfazed reactions of his when Otoha found out and when Nodoka published compared to this. It’s laughable)

Spoiler: Picture abstract

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I’d say with the most confidence that the levels of consequence between these two types of “bad management” are not even close to be comparable. It’s perhaps because this time the consequence involves Io, and meanwhile his chicken brain has convinced himself that he’s the only one that will sink if illicit things get out (which of course Futaba slapped him with her side of reality)

 

[fdsasdf_p]

Do all of you play from a save where you opened Uta's loli pic and just recollected the points or cheated them back in?
Because i reverted to a save where i did not open the "sms" so i had not to do that and played from "a clean slate" there on.

The reason i come up with that is, that, if Akira never saw the pic/s, how would he know how loli Uta looks like?
Isn't it even pointed towards in the conversation/inner monologue/narration that he saw them?
Is this a plot error or are things possible to still happen offscreen?

Because if canon always still happens offscreen, i'd had some more thoughts about "The White Oak Door".

At the end of Uta-chan you’re forced to look at the picture HOPE sent you, so it’s not determined by whether you check your album or not via the menu screen: Sensei is forced to know.

 

[alex2011]

Yeah, I'll have to disagree with it both being not "understandable", and a few minutes of earned suffering somehow being worse than months to years of undeserved bullying plus probably a lifetime of fear and insecurity, and a damaged body.

I'm thinking you're forgetting what Yumi has actually done. Here's some of what's actually been shown:

• Made Futaba cry for fun:
  Spoiler

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  Who knows how many times.
• Tried to steal Futaba's towel:
  Spoiler

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• Has taken Futaba's books and desk hostage for no reason:
  Spoiler

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• Pinned Futaba against a wall and threatened to kill her:
  Spoiler

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• Etc

She even seems to be the main cause of Futaba's bulimia:

Spoiler

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And Yumi did stuff like this for who knows how long.

Futaba seems to be so traumatized that she's absolutely terrified of being a target again:

Spoiler

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If you still haven't came around to my point of view, then yeah, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

Agreed on that last part, I'm looking at this as they were both wrong and at the different levels they would be held to criminally (both are criminal offenses where I am and what Nodoka did falls under a higher level charge), not taking vengeance into account as it would also be a criminal act with charges depending on the exact actions taken as vengeance.

I do, however, retract the whole point about Yumi being misunderstood. That must have been confusion with older versions as those are the ones I've kept in my memory, the ones that actually won me over. Lucky me, got hit by the cthree choice, so I'll get to go back and take a look for myself in my upcoming next playthrough.

Well played, by the way. Your arguments were sound and grounded in evidence.

Nodoka knows, she just didn't seem to take it into account. It's likely the same reason she's sleeping with Sensei behind Futaba's back (another "reason to hate her" I don't think anyone's mentioned). Nodoka doesn't seem to see the logic of putting the wants of others above her own wants.

That's one thing I can dislike. Nodoka comes first to Nodoka:

Spoiler

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At least she's honest about it though.

Still, Nodoka definitely didn't seem to want nor try to hurt Futaba:

Spoiler

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I'm sure the next Nodoka event will be quite interesting. She'll either be remorseful, or I might need to revaluate how I see her.

On this, I completely agree. First of all, look at how Nodoka reacts when Futaba walks away in the previous set of images you provided on this topic. She responds in a way that denotes genuine guilt like she knew she said or did something, she just didn't yet know what it was. She is definitely not trying to hurt Futaba here and she definitely seemed concerned about the issue that was brought up in this scene. She's just trying to understand the extent of how she was wrong.

Yeah, i was thinking earlier that you were running with all engines on max.

Indeed, that was an impressive offensive against my defense of Yumi as well, I have to say. It still feels wrong that I ended up taking Yumi's side on this out of any character in that entire topic, that was the last thing I expected to be doing.

Off topic stuff

I suddenly feel bewildered by how Sensei managed the most recent Miku mild-OD situation. His panic level is so apparent that it puts his another issue, that is he fucking his teenager students, to shame.
(Seriously, the unfazed reactions of his when Otoha found out and when Nodoka published compared to this. It’s laughable)

Spoiler: Picture abstract

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I’d say with the most confidence that the levels of consequence between these two types of “bad management” are not even close to be comparable. It’s perhaps because this time the consequence involves Io, and meanwhile his chicken brain has convinced himself that he’s the only one that will sink if illicit things get out (which of course Futaba slapped him with her side of reality)

Because he really is the only one, the other side wouldn't get in trouble even if they were actively participating by choice, that's just how these things go.

 

[BlackDays]

At the end of Uta-chan you’re forced to look at the picture HOPE sent you, so it’s not determined by whether you check your album or not via the menu screen: Sensei is forced to know.

You're right. But it's weird. I thought it was like other messages with an exclamation mark which is why i looked into it.
Both options seemed wrong to me so i omitted answering in my final decision.

That you get to see it in the end of the event i can't remember.
It's also out of habit how it normaly works.

I take it as my memory failing me here.
Still it could also be retconned.
Depends if the "rename your phone contacts" feature ways implemented before or after that event. That'd be a hint.

 

[Bingoogus]

You're right. But it's weird. I thought it was like other messages with an exclamation mark which is why i looked into it.
Both options seemed wrong to me so i omitted answering in my final decision.

That you get to see it in the end of the event i can't remember.
It's also out of habit how it normaly works.

I take it as my memory failing me here.
Still it could also be retconned.
Depends if the "rename your phone contacts" feature ways implemented before or after that event. That'd be a hint.

Pretty sure only the option to delete the photo triggers Selly fuckery, the first one is something like 'i don't deserve you' and that just ends the picture viewing and nothing else.

 

[BlackDays]

Pretty sure only the option to delete the photo triggers Selly fuckery, the first one is something like 'i don't deserve you' and that just ends the picture viewing and nothing else.

I'm aware of what both options do, even back then.
Also translated the cypher back then, to know what goes on.

Keeping picture and his monologue, i was like: This feels bad.
Deleting picture with losing Uta aff points, just felt stupid.
So i thought, let's just pretend Akira never saw the mobile pic.

But i remember it so, that you only got to see loli Uta, if you clicked the mobile icon in the char sheet.
Not that Akira would see it no matter what, as part of the event.

 

[BlackDays]

Since i came up with it and i did that because i read that here a couple of times.

Does anyone even know if Sel retconned something?
Some people pretended he did. Though i don't know of any examples outside of the ch1 rework and typos ofcourse.

I'd be rather interested in knowing if he did retconn anything besides what i mentioned and that being relevant enought to give people second thoughts.

 

[Algorist]

I said "understandable". Not "justified". Nothing Nodoka did to Yumi was "justified", and nothing Yumi has done to anyone is "justified". What Nodoka did to Yumi was Vengeance:

Spoiler

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And personally I agree with Nodoka, it's nothing compared to what Yumi put Futaba through:

Spoiler

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Yumi has potentially fucked Futaba for life and caused her to slowly kill herself. Meanwhile, Futaba has done nothing but try to be nice to her.

Yumi got off rather easy honestly. Just imagine what Nodoka could have done if she wanted.

I'm leaning more towards Otoha knowing how shitty she is, how much it's hurting and going to hurt others, and doesn't really care because she wants Niki to "make a woman" out of her:

Spoiler

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To each their own interpretation though. I'm getting a little bored talking about Otoha, lmao.

Btw, Foreshadowing:

Spoiler

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Nah, it'll probably be much worse. Poor homie.

I see. Your points are well-substantiated and persuasive. I can certainly understand why you believe Otoha is worse. Moreover, I didn't remember Yumi being that much of a dick towards Futaba. I guess you tend to overlook the bad in your favorite characters (or these may be newer. I haven't replayed the game at all).

Then there's the aspect of the law. Otoha probably committed some sort of battery or domestic violence (by slapping Rin); I have no idea where exactly her actions would fall in Japanese law.
Whereas Nodoka almost certainly committed sexual assault.

I have seen someone mentioning that for us, players of this game, who know the context behind the character's actions, that recognize this is all fictional, what Otoha did is much more shocking than what Nodoka did. While I don't strictly agree, the idea holds merit. The fact that we're discussing this at all is the proof.

A girl slapping her girlfriend, cheating, and generally being an awful partner? Not even newsworthy. A minor sexually assaulting another one, forcing her victim to masturbate in front of her while she sucks off their teacher? National, no, possibly global news right there.

Sometimes, I wonder if this game has warped my common sense.

Of course, I do not understand the characters perfectly, especially Nodoka. But I can talk about my impression of them.

My impression of Otoha is that she is an immature, impulsive, dipshit teen. These aren't rare at all. These aren't particularly dangerous (unless in groups).

Whereas Nodoka, she's too unpredictable. Her in-universe intelligence enables her to create schemes that could cause extreme harm. Her likely psychopathy also allows her to have no external moral constraints, only those she herself constructed. In other words, she's highly dangerous.

The fact that she considers Sensei, an actual predator, as harmless is more than enough proof that her internal moral compass isn't to be trusted.

In a hypothetical situation, being positioned to profit immensely, the only condition is fucking everyone and everything over (possibly the very fabric of reality, as this is Kumon-mi); I'm afraid of what she would do.

I don't think Otoha would go that far.

As of yet, I'm not sure who's worse. Which is strange, for I feel something telling me I should. Which is why I believe this game has warped my common sense.

 

[saerav]

Entered my first poem competition today!

 

[fdsasdf_p]

Speaking of picture message exclamation marks, I finally figured out why ! resurfaced for some girls but not other girls despite already checking all the dialogues as soon as they came out.

Apparently saving immediately right after doesn’t work; the game has to go through some scene transitions to properly recognize your efforts when saving.

I.e., after exhausting all dialogues, immediately saving and reloading = ! resurfaced; but after something as simple as visiting dorm, then saving and reloading, then your progress is kept.

Well here you go some useless trivia that nobody asks for but probably something I should’ve already known since like day 5

 

[5A 61 68 79 6E 68 79 6B]

Оtoha is the best normal teen-girl, In fact

Spoiler: Tier-List after 0.34

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[Angra Shadow]

Off topic stuff

I suddenly feel bewildered by how Sensei managed the most recent Miku mild-OD situation. His panic level is so apparent that it puts his another issue, that is he fucking his teenager students, to shame.
(Seriously, the unfazed reactions of his when Otoha found out and when Nodoka published compared to this. It’s laughable)

Spoiler: Picture abstract

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I’d say with the most confidence that the levels of consequence between these two types of “bad management” are not even close to be comparable. It’s perhaps because this time the consequence involves Io, and meanwhile his chicken brain has convinced himself that he’s the only one that will sink if illicit things get out (which of course Futaba slapped him with her side of reality)

I think it's because even though he keeps telling himself that he is such a horrible person for taking advantage of all these girls, deep down he is still holding onto the belief that he is "helping" them and making their lives better, so he rationalizes his guilt away, but in situations like this his action or lack thereof has caused serious damage to them and he cannot hide behind any pretense or cope.

 

[ccxvidonaferens]

I think it's because even though he keeps telling himself that he is such a horrible person for taking advantage of all these girls, deep down he is still holding onto the belief that he is "helping" them and making their lives better, so he rationalizes his guilt away, but in situations like this his action or lack thereof has caused serious damage to them and he cannot hide behind any pretense or cope.

Self-delusion can be a powerful thing.

 

[DeSkel15]

Yep, she did take it into account when she hid that book from Futaba, but didn't take it into account when publised that book. Does it really sounds like

? It more like not give a single fuck about other's feelings when she does not want it

Sorry, I'm back.
Knowing vs Understanding.

Nodoka knows she's fucked up when Futaba gets upset:

Spoiler

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However, she doesn't seem to understand why what she did caused her to be upset:

Spoiler

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Nodoka knew explaining to Futaba her logic behind the book would be difficult:

Spoiler

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But to her, all of Futaba's problems would be solved by simply not reading it:

Spoiler

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It's just a rectangle:

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She doesn't seem to understand why Futaba is upset.

In fact, Nodoka seems to have done this entire book thing for others like them, those who live for it:

Spoiler

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To her, it's likely meant to be a good thing, and isn't actually intentionally malicious.

Still, writing the book itself is definitely intentionally insensitive, which is the shitty part of this.

Anyway, Nodoka knows Futaba has insecurity issues, but I highly doubt she understands them. Nodoka doesn't seem to be capable of much empathy as she doesn't seem to think or feel the same as others.