Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.45.0] [Selebus]

BlackDays · Oct 24, 2023

DeSkel15 said:
I don't think that's Ami. Maya couldn't seem to see the Ami by Sensei which makes me think it's likely more of an Ami abomination. Maybe even the thing that killed Ami.

Amy:

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Mangled Ami:

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Twisted Ami:

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and Nao:

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Seem to imply there's plenty of things that like taking her form, or simply look like her, similar to Maya.

As for the Shapeshifter, it's possible that she did this for Ayane. Considering the recent gods require sacrifices thing:

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Then take into account that Ayane didn't survive the rooftop until Todd, her chicken, disappeared and was later found dead. It's possible that much like how Sensei apparently needed to take something for someone else:

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The Shapeshifter might have been taking things to keep Ayane alive in the background.

Of course, it could also have simply been The Old One, or one of the gods. Ami seemed to have likely pissed off Maya, and the gods a little before this, by having sex with Sensei which let him function again.

At the moment, all entities that look like Ami, could be sitting there instead of the Ami we know.
But i wouldn't be surprised if every version of Ami is in fact Ami, even Nao. And that "The Old One" is Nao, hence Ami too.
They could all be different approaches of Ami, to manipulate Akira into doing what she wants.

"Rain King" happens inside of "Times New Roman" (wonder why that title) and so, after Ami's possible death.

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Since this is Lil, it's possible that's just a halluzination of Ami. But i think it's more likely that it is really her.
And she's desperate, not far from a nervous breakdown.

Akira's home in "Times New Roman" also seems to be crafted by her, her best attempt so far in trying to control him i'd say.
Akira believed he had to stay there for what ever reasons. Likely guild. Guild that he did something really bad, that deserved his self imprisonment. I think he thought he was responsible for someones death.
(E.g. The body outline drawing on the floor with a seemingly missing head? We have a "Ami (Headless)". That theory is very weak though.)
But, i won't be surprised if we get "Nice Niece Ami" back, the next time we see her again.

I don't know why Himawari would help her, or even why Himawari does anything at all.
All we do now is, that she has obligations to who or whatever is pulling the strings in the back (pun intended).
And she's very likely trying to protect her parents.

Bingoogus · Oct 24, 2023

I've tried to be cautious, tried not to jump the gun, be patient and wait for further developments but i just can't shake it, i can't see any path away from this one and back to the old one... i am deflated after this last update and i am pretty much convinced this is a repeat of SO fucking things up by changing characters too much to the point where all previous attachments felt hollow. I can't take a different Maya, i don't care how great a character she might turn out to be, the fact is she won't be the Maya i've formed an attachment to, she's dead, the game is expected to go on without her. Sure, she might be restored down the line, maybe, but for now, she's gone. Gone, and the game without her cannot at all be the game with her... i struggle to convince myself there's even a tiny chance i could give a shit about the story with her deleted from it. It's not like i'm just going to drop the game, i have to at least give the next patch a go, but all my emotional attachments to this game, the excitement i feel when update day approaches... they're weak now, brittle, tangled up and loose. I really feared this outcome and i really hope things can turn around but i just can't see how, she can't just pop back into the game after an update or two or it'd be a cop out, so we're looking at a looooong time if not never and the more i imagine the story without her the less i find myself giving a shit. This game has gone from an A in my mind to like a C at this point.

To be clear, it's not like Maya was my no. 1 favorite character, i'd react this way if anyone was reset to a state at or before the start of the game, most of them are still getting soft resets here and there and every world reset but no one has been hard reset until now. It's the hard resetting that kills it for me.

Shit on me with facepalms if you think i'm just doomposting or whining cause my toy got taken away, i probably deserve it. I hope i look back on this post in the future and think "ha, you naive fool!", but i really doubt i will.

DeSkel15 · Oct 24, 2023

BlackDays said:
At the moment, all entities that look like Ami, could be sitting there instead of the Ami we know.
But i wouldn't be surprised if every version of Ami is in fact Ami, even Nao. And that "The Old One" is Nao, hence Ami too.
They could all be different approaches of Ami, to manipulate Akira into doing what she wants.

"Rain King" happens inside of "Times New Roman" (wonder why that title) and so, after Ami's possible death.

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Since this is Lil, it's possible that's just a halluzination of Ami. But i think it's more likely that it is really her.
And she's desperate, not far from a nervous breakdown.

Akira's home in "Times New Roman" also seems to be crafted by her, her best attempt so far in trying to control him i'd say.
Akira believed he had to stay there for what ever reasons. Likely guild. Guild that he did something really bad, that deserved his self imprisonment. I think he thought he was responsible for someones death.
(E.g. The body outline drawing on the floor with a seemingly missing head? We have a "Ami (Headless)". That theory is very weak though.)
But, i won't be surprised if we get "Nice Niece Ami" back, the next time we see her again.

I don't know why Himawari would help her, or even why Himawari does anything at all.
All we do now is, that she has obligations to who or whatever is pulling the strings in the back (pun intended).
And she's very likely trying to protect her parents.

I don't really see why Ami would need to go through any of that to manipulate him. We already know she can break his mind and take advantage of him whenever, if she wanted. She just tries not to:

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There's also stuff like Sana visting to have sex with Sensei in the house, which doesnt really make me think Ami had any control of Sensei's blackout. Then again, it's not impossible that there is some Ami Prime out there pulling the strings.

At this point, The Shapeshifter seems to be perhaps the most suspicious character imo. Her entire existence seems odd, and considering she was recently seen with a few Amis, on top of how she's mentioned rules:

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It is likely she's at least working for whoever is really doing this stuff. Not to mention, she can apparently look like any character, and seems a little insane:

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I'm not even sure if she's actually trying to help Ayane or Sensei. She might just be trying to make sure she will exist and have a better life than whatever is going on with her. More along the lines of using them, because it benefits her.

Of course, personally, it seems like Sensei might literally just be doing this to himself. Some kind of godlike entity punishing itself with it's own kind of purgatory thing. Nodoka's story seemed to imply similar:

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All the characters may just be Sensei's past victims, including Ami.

Whatever the reality of things turns out to be, I'm definitely interested in finding out.

DeSkel15 · Oct 24, 2023

Bingoogus said:
I've tried to be cautious, tried not to jump the gun, be patient and wait for further developments but i just can't shake it, i can't see any path away from this one and back to the old one... i am deflated after this last update and i am pretty much convinced this is a repeat of SO fucking things up by changing characters too much to the point where all previous attachments felt hollow. I can't take a different Maya, i don't care how great a character she might turn out to be, the fact is she won't be the Maya i've formed an attachment to, she's dead, the game is expected to go on without her. Sure, she might be restored down the line, maybe, but for now, she's gone. Gone, and the game without her cannot at all be the game with her... i struggle to convince myself there's even a tiny chance i could give a shit about the story with her deleted from it. It's not like i'm just going to drop the game, i have to at least give the next patch a go, but all my emotional attachments to this game, the excitement i feel when update day approaches... they're weak now, brittle, tangled up and loose. I really feared this outcome and i really hope things can turn around but i just can't see how, she can't just pop back into the game after an update or two or it'd be a cop out, so we're looking at a looooong time if not never and the more i imagine the story without her the less i find myself giving a shit. This game has gone from an A in my mind to like a C at this point.

To be clear, it's not like Maya was my no. 1 favorite character, i'd react this way if anyone was reset to a state at or before the start of the game, most of them are still getting soft resets here and there and every world reset but no one has been hard reset until now. It's the hard resetting that kills it for me.

Shit on me with facepalms if you think i'm just doomposting or whining cause my toy got taken away, i probably deserve it. I hope i look back on this post in the future and think "ha, you naive fool!", but i really doubt i will.

I can see where you're coming from, but to be honest, we don't actually know if "Hard resets" are even a thing. Most of our knowledge comes from Maya and she's so often wrong, I find it a little difficult to take her word for it.

It's not impossible that the New Maya and Old Maya will actually exist simultaneously. Some split personality stuff, like what seems to be going on with Yasu and Ami. Personally, I'm just hoping this hasn't been our Maya all along:

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The Happy Events may actually be future memories, since this world more or less says "fuck you" to time.

Then there's Yasu's recent proclamation about HOPE seemingly wanting Maya:

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And, now I can't help but sincerely Hope this wasn't a hint about Maya's actual fate:

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Overall: I'd definitely give the next update a chance, before thinking it's going the way of SO. Nothing in SO came close to Sel's writing imo. It's also just one character whereas SO suddenly added an entire new cast, plus multiple future versions of past characters. I don't think Sel is dumb enough to do something like that. He rather us suffer than become numb imo.

DeSkel15 · Oct 24, 2023

ZathuraVentura said:
That's true, I completely forgot about that detail, but that just brings up another question: Why was Sekai or Nozomu in the backseat? Someone else must've been riding shotgun.

Edit: Yeah, the crash was 8 years ago, and while we don't know Ami's age (as far as I know), we do know that Ayane's 15. Assuming that Ami's the same age or younger, she'd be 6 or 7 years old. No way she's the one in the front passenger seat.

Ami was said to be Seven when her parents died:

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and she's a little older than Ayane. August vs September.

Also, considering the religious undertones of the Arakawa family, it's possible that Sekai wasn't allowed to drive. Only men in the front seat or some other sexist beliefs. So, Nozomu may have been up front, possibly driving with Sensei, while Sekai was in the back with Ami. Just a theory though.

TheAnonymousMouse · Oct 24, 2023

Bingoogus said:
I've tried to be cautious, tried not to jump the gun, be patient and wait for further developments but i just can't shake it, i can't see any path away from this one and back to the old one... i am deflated after this last update and i am pretty much convinced this is a repeat of SO fucking things up by changing characters too much to the point where all previous attachments felt hollow. I can't take a different Maya, i don't care how great a character she might turn out to be, the fact is she won't be the Maya i've formed an attachment to, she's dead, the game is expected to go on without her. Sure, she might be restored down the line, maybe, but for now, she's gone. Gone, and the game without her cannot at all be the game with her... i struggle to convince myself there's even a tiny chance i could give a shit about the story with her deleted from it.

Not going to try and talk you out of your thoughts on the matter, to be real the story has been a bit all over the place really. We got drama, we got wild stuff going on no doubt, and that kettle has been heating up, I feel.

But, here's my theory-thinking though, we have a level of trust with the majority of characters at this point. An unspoken rule between them all, known to them or not, which makes it hard for there to be a character that could cause much discourse between the dynamic without being diverted or ignored. Of course, not everyone is in the Sensei-Chaser club, but in terms of actual characters which could attempt to cause discourse that is a common character within the dorm-dynamic it'd be limited to both Tsuneyo and Otoha. But both of them have reasons to avoid that.

In terms of Tsuneyo,

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In terms of Otoha,

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The reset character though?:

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To put it simply, my thinking is that the character we and all other characters would least expect, one which has been effectively on our side from the beginning and understands how the world works, how to avoid causing conflict, to be the catalyst for everything crumbling away, relationships becoming strained, would be rather unexpected. It'd be both a shock to us readers and when the true Maya eventually returns (Such an event is without a doubt inevitable, I feel.), other than freaking out at having been reset, there'd be an unseen level of despair at everything being so different and HER being the cause for it all would only add to it.

Possible discourse she may cause:

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The reaction we will see upon her return, she will undoubtedly enter a despair arc akin to Makoto if not far greater. And this game always gets interesting when the moments of despair become highest.

Could be wrong about all this, but I do feel things are going to become far more interesting come the next update. Who knows though, maybe it'll be a cop-out altogether and Maya fucking Sensei acted as a 'hug' to reset the world, school roof rules be damned. Sadly doubt it, but it'd definitely be unexpected..

TL;DR While the future is murky, a wildcard has entered the mix, and while I, too, am not a fan of (most likely) temporarily 'losing' such an interesting character, it will be a very interesting break in the current dynamic that may lead to massive shifts in everything from here out.

Bingoogus · Oct 24, 2023

DeSkel15 said:
Overall: I'd definitely give the next update a chance, before thinking it's going the way of SO. Nothing in SO came close to Sel's writing imo. It's also just one character whereas SO suddenly added an entire new cast, plus multiple future versions of past characters. I don't think Sel is dumb enough to do something like that. He rather us suffer than become numb imo.

This is basically the only thing i'm holding on to. It's why i am quite glum but not 100% bowing out, yet. My fear is that even if it's only a single character, it only takes one to wreck everything in the same way as SO did, not to the same degree, but enough to undermine the emotional attachments and foundational interest in the over all story. I feel there's little hope at this point, but there's not no hope, i just want/ed to vent.

I have a history of quickly losing all interest when a game/tv show/book or whatever breaks a character/story in some fundamental way, be it an actor change or retconning a season as 'all a dream' or changing them suddenly and too much to be believable for one of a hundred different reasons. There's a continuity i need or i just lose interest, i have no control over it, i can't make myself give a shit.

DeSkel15 · Oct 24, 2023

TheAnonymousMouse said:
Not going to try and talk you out of your thoughts on the matter, to be real the story has been a bit all over the place really. We got drama, we got wild stuff going on no doubt, and that kettle has been heating up, I feel.

But, here's my theory-thinking though, we have a level of trust with the majority of characters at this point. An unspoken rule between them all, known to them or not, which makes it hard for there to be a character that could cause much discourse between the dynamic without being diverted or ignored. Of course, not everyone is in the Sensei-Chaser club, but in terms of actual characters which could attempt to cause discourse that is a common character within the dorm-dynamic it'd be limited to both Tsuneyo and Otoha. But both of them have reasons to avoid that.

In terms of Tsuneyo,

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In terms of Otoha,

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The reset character though?:

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To put it simply, my thinking is that the character we and all other characters would least expect, one which has been effectively on our side from the beginning and understands how the world works, how to avoid causing conflict, to be the catalyst for everything crumbling away, relationships becoming strained, would be rather unexpected. It'd be both a shock to us readers and when the true Maya eventually returns (Such an event is without a doubt inevitable, I feel.), other than freaking out at having been reset, there'd be an unseen level of despair at everything being so different and HER being the cause for it all would only add to it.

Possible discourse she may cause:

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The reaction we will see upon her return, she will undoubtedly enter a despair arc akin to Makoto if not far greater. And this game always gets interesting when the moments of despair become highest.

Could be wrong about all this, but I do feel things are going to become far more interesting come the next update. Who knows though, maybe it'll be a cop-out altogether and Maya fucking Sensei acted as a 'hug' to reset the world, school roof rules be damned. Sadly doubt it, but it'd definitely be unexpected..

TL;DR While the future is murky, a wildcard has entered the mix, and while I, too, am not a fan of (most likely) temporarily 'losing' such an interesting character, it will be a very interesting break in the current dynamic that may lead to massive shifts in everything from here out.

I've definitely been thinking similar about New Maya. She is going to have one hell of a time because:

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BlackDays · Oct 24, 2023

DeSkel15 said:
There's also stuff like Sana visting to have sex with Sensei in the house, which doesnt really make me think Ami had any control of Sensei's blackout. Then again, it's not impossible that there is some Ami Prime out there pulling the strings.

I wrote that before. The girls, espacially the tiny, skinny ones look alot alike, which might be due to koikatsu.

But,

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if i had to choose which one adult Sana looks more alike, i'd say Ami.

DeSkel15 · Oct 24, 2023

BlackDays said:
I wrote that before. The girls, espacially the tiny, skinny ones look alot alike, which might be due to koikatsu.

But,

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if i had to choose which one adult Sana looks more alike, i'd say Ami.

I mean, Sana already has bigger breasts than Ami:

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Apparently. Ami would probably be more comparable to a Wizard. Sana and Maya seem comparable. (At least older Sana)

rianzz · Oct 24, 2023

Bingoogus said:
I've tried to be cautious, tried not to jump the gun, be patient and wait for further developments but i just can't shake it, i can't see any path away from this one and back to the old one... i am deflated after this last update and i am pretty much convinced this is a repeat of SO fucking things up by changing characters too much to the point where all previous attachments felt hollow. I can't take a different Maya, i don't care how great a character she might turn out to be, the fact is she won't be the Maya i've formed an attachment to, she's dead, the game is expected to go on without her. Sure, she might be restored down the line, maybe, but for now, she's gone. Gone, and the game without her cannot at all be the game with her... i struggle to convince myself there's even a tiny chance i could give a shit about the story with her deleted from it. It's not like i'm just going to drop the game, i have to at least give the next patch a go, but all my emotional attachments to this game, the excitement i feel when update day approaches... they're weak now, brittle, tangled up and loose. I really feared this outcome and i really hope things can turn around but i just can't see how, she can't just pop back into the game after an update or two or it'd be a cop out, so we're looking at a looooong time if not never and the more i imagine the story without her the less i find myself giving a shit. This game has gone from an A in my mind to like a C at this point.

To be clear, it's not like Maya was my no. 1 favorite character, i'd react this way if anyone was reset to a state at or before the start of the game, most of them are still getting soft resets here and there and every world reset but no one has been hard reset until now. It's the hard resetting that kills it for me.

Shit on me with facepalms if you think i'm just doomposting or whining cause my toy got taken away, i probably deserve it. I hope i look back on this post in the future and think "ha, you naive fool!", but i really doubt i will.

I feel exactly the same way

BlackDays · Oct 24, 2023

Bingoogus said:
This is basically the only thing i'm holding on to. It's why i am quite glum but not 100% bowing out, yet. My fear is that even if it's only a single character, it only takes one to wreck everything in the same way as SO did, not to the same degree, but enough to undermine the emotional attachments and foundational interest in the over all story. I feel there's little hope at this point, but there's not no hope, i just want/ed to vent.

I have a history of quickly losing all interest when a game/tv show/book or whatever breaks a character/story in some fundamental way, be it an actor change or retconning a season as 'all a dream' or changing them suddenly and too much to be believable for one of a hundred different reasons. There's a continuity i need or i just lose interest, i have no control over it, i can't make myself give a shit.

You should never watch "To your eternity".

TheAnonymousMouse · Oct 24, 2023

DeSkel15 said:
I've definitely been thinking similar about New Maya. She is going to have one hell of a time because:

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Oh damn, I didn't even think about the Noriko and Niki situation!

It may not even take the true her coming back for her to enter a crazed state, unless the reset version just has fake memories of events to make up for everything... Even then though...

Wayne193 · Oct 24, 2023

Anyone has a save before this update or a bit earlier is fine aswell?

DSasha · Oct 24, 2023

What I'm wondering is.

At first everything seemed like a game, if Sensei breaks, die or even if he's not doing what he's meant to, everything goes back to the first reset, the summer one, with him waking up in class with Ami, having been reset like the rest of the characters except Maya.

Maya then was the only one who was aware of the world and in her own words she was the unluckiest person in the world, (something she repeated several times later) so everything seemed like a kind of punishment for her who had to live for so many years in that infinite loop.
From the beginning the game has always revolved around Sensei, but it seemed to me that it revolved around Maya too.

So now, if Maya has been reset, isn't that in some way a liberation for her? It is true that the personality forged over hundreds of years will no longer be there, but it is still her, and given the choice, it would have been worse if she had to face another reset being alone again, after having advanced so much.

And also, what would happen now if Sensei breaks for some reason?
Ayane could be the one to replace Maya, but it wouldn't make much sense because she doesn't have the keys to Akira's past, it would be impossible for her to keep him safe.
It could be Akira just trying to get Maya back, but he doesn't seem like the person with the most will in the world to carry out such a mission through hundreds of years of resets.
Could be Maya again, but it also took her too many years to learn everything necessary about this world to be able to moderately guide Sensei, having reset her before would seem rather reckless then, unless her memories are not lost forever.

DeSkel15 · Oct 24, 2023

DSasha said:
What I'm wondering is.

At first everything seemed like a game, if Sensei breaks, die or even if he's not doing what he's meant to, everything goes back to the first reset, the summer one, with him waking up in class with Ami, having been reset like the rest of the characters except Maya.

Maya then was the only one who was aware of the world and in her own words she was the unluckiest person in the world, (something she repeated several times later) so everything seemed like a kind of punishment for her who had to live for so many years in that infinite loop.
From the beginning the game has always revolved around Sensei, but it seemed to me that it revolved around Maya too.

So now, if Maya has been reset, isn't that in some way a liberation for her? It is true that the personality forged over hundreds of years will no longer be there, but it is still her, and given the choice, it would have been worse if she had to face another reset being alone again, after having advanced so much.

And also, what would happen now if Sensei breaks for some reason?
Ayane could be the one to replace Maya, but it wouldn't make much sense because she doesn't have the keys to Akira's past, it would be impossible for her to keep him safe.
It could be Akira just trying to get Maya back, but he doesn't seem like the person with the most will in the world to carry out such a mission through hundreds of years of resets.
Could be Maya again, but it also took her too many years to learn everything necessary about this world to be able to moderately guide Sensei, having reset her before would seem rather reckless then, unless her memories are not lost forever.

I definitely think it's been implied that the world revolved around Maya and Sensei. Maya even noted that it was their world:

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During the first Reset. Whether or not that's actually true, remains to be seen though.

As for who might be the new "Maya", well, the only real option seems to be Sekai.. Not only has it been implied that she helped Sensei survive the 5th Reset:

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Sekai also seems to be trying to guide Sensei:

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Implying she knows how things work.

Of course, Ayane with help from The Shapeshifter may prove useful, but I dont think she's cut out for the scary parts of the world. Not even sure if she's aware of Sensei's "Happy Events" outside of Resets.

Then there's Nodoka. Nodoka seems to love Sensei:

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She's also one of the only characters that seems to know things, and be capable of handling this world's insanity. She's also seemed to have been preparing herself for the role of serving Sensei, if her recent Nun uniform is any indication.

Assuming there is some connection between Sekai and Nodoka, we might be looking at who Sensei will be relying on in Maya's absence. There's also Ami, but who really knows what's going on there. The Ami we know might be as gone as Maya.

Also, although Yasu seems to know things, after how she acted last update, it's rather clear she'll never be on Sensei's side. He's simply a means to an end for her god in her eyes.

DeSkel15 · Oct 24, 2023

Random, but I think this may have been the first time Yasu managed to piss me off the entire game:

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I mean, I'm not surprised, but something about her saying this while Sensei is asking for help...

Yasu showed absolutely no compassion, and Sensei has never given her a reason to be so cold as far as I can tell. He even seemed to have been placing his trust in her by this point:

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For all the good it did.

No wonder she seems to serve the Callous god.

Bingoogus · Oct 24, 2023

DeSkel15 said:
Random, but I think this may have been the first time Yasu managed to piss me off the entire game:

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I mean, I'm not surprised, but something about her saying this while Sensei is asking for help...

Yasu showed absolutely no compassion, and Sensei has never given her a reason to be so cold as far as I can tell. He even seemed to have been placing his trust in her by this point:

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For all the good it did.

No wonder she seems to serve the Callous god.

Don't forget that Yasu tends to be little more than a parrot for Hope, she just repeats what she's told to say and seemingly has no thoughts whilst repeating the words as she usually snaps out of it and acts confused, so i'd be inclined... actually, very inclined to assume that flippant dismissal was Hope, not Yasu speaking.

DeSkel15 · Oct 24, 2023

Bingoogus said:
Don't forget that Yasu tends to be little more than a parrot for Hope, she just repeats what she's told to say and seemingly has no thoughts whilst repeating the words as she usually snaps out of it and acts confused, so i'd be inclined... actually, very inclined to assume that flippant dismissal was Hope, not Yasu speaking.

Yasu wasn't confused this time though. She didn't even seem to act surprised.

This seems to simply be Yasu speaking.

DeSkel15 · Oct 24, 2023

Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.45.0] [Selebus]

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