Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.45.0] [Selebus]

[Ankoku]

Thank you very much for taking the time to both play and critique my game! I completely agree with basically everything you said, and kind of expected to hear this sort of feedback when I was first thinking up LiL. The greatest worry I always have when looking at my writing from a critical perspective is that it's sort of like this formulaic chaos where, just as you mentioned, it becomes a cycle of dramatic mood shifts that start in similar places and end in similar places. Indulgent is a good word, but I feel that there's a bit more to it than that- and all of it comes from the challenges I knew would arise when creating something of this scale.

The key worry for me has been not moving anything drastically forward until everyone has reached a certain...plateau, I guess- as I very much want this to be a story where the class progresses as a whole in tandem with individual character progression. But having so many fucking characters makes that an interesting challenge. I want everyone to progress together, but progressing so many people at once is quite a laborious and lengthy undertaking. And that's not me making an excuse or anything, just trying to explain where I am and where I want to go.

The coming update is easily the biggest in terms of actual main story beats, so I think you'll start seeing some of that indulgence begin to slip away as the direction the game is heading in becomes more apparent. It is, however, important to note that those incessant cycles of good-to bad-to very bad-to very good-to normal-to weird religious philosophy-to sex-back to good will likely never fully go away. One thing I picked up from SCA-DI (Who I'm very excited to see name-dropped in a discussion about my game as he is probably my biggest influence) is that sort of weird, unfiltered/borderline-nonsensical rambling type of prose. It wasn't until I played Subarashiki Hibi that I thought, "You know what? Fuck it. I'm just going to write for myself and if people like it, they like it." So, while I've completely embraced the fact that I just write whatever comes to my mind rather than sitting down and specifically plotting out who is going to dynamically change and when, I completely understand that that exact quality of my work may be a turn-off for some people. I always know where I want to go, but I admittedly might take a little too long to get there at times.

Last thing to note, as I feel it ties directly back into how the horror aspects are circling around to the same ideas is that, to some extent, that's exactly what they're doing. And while it won't be clear or obvious now, each one of them provides a different sort of hint or tidbit of information that will be vital to "connecting the dots" in the future. We're still only in the first part of the game and there are many gigantic reveals that have yet to even almost-surface- but I'm in this for the long-haul. Hopefully, this next update will be enough to show you that I'm capable of slipping away from that comfortable sort of "formula" I've been writing in but, again, I don't think that style will ever fully fade.

Anyone else getting rather worried for the characters with all this hype about the next update? Congratulations, you've managed the near-impossible task of making a horror game where I'm actually scared for the character's sake. Bravo.

 

[w.iT]

Anyone else getting rather worried for the characters with all this hype about the next update? Congratulations, you've managed the near-impossible task of making a horror game where I'm actually scared for the character's sake. Bravo.

That's a proof of how selebus have managed to rope you in for a good story moment and how selebus is a good story writer.

 

[Revolver1]

Selebus I'm a bit curious, but I haven't played the game yet, and want to play the one you might be updating this week (tomorrow, I think?), when should we expect you to update it on here man?

Also, thanks for the game! I'm sure there are a lot of people who appreciate your hard work at creating an enjoyable and compelling story.

 

[Ankoku]

Selebus I'm a bit curious, but I haven't played the game yet, and want to play the one you might be updating this week (tomorrow, I think?), when should we expect you to update it on here man?

Also, thanks for the game! I'm sure there are a lot of people who appreciate your hard work at creating an enjoyable and compelling story.

Free versions of the game come out when the new paid version comes out. So the version releasing tomorrow should be available for free on January 1st I believe.

However, there are people that leak the paid version here earlier. No telling when exactly, but the last one took 4 or 5 days I think? I wouldn't be surprised if it takes longer.

Either way, your save always carries over and there's quite a bit of content currently, so you can start with the version currently on here to see if you like it, then consider possibly paying if you finish it and want more before the new version is out for free.

 

[Deleted member 1697433]

Selebus I'm a bit curious, but I haven't played the game yet, and want to play the one you might be updating this week (tomorrow, I think?), when should we expect you to update it on here man?

Also, thanks for the game! I'm sure there are a lot of people who appreciate your hard work at creating an enjoyable and compelling story.

Given the size of this next update, I imagine it will leak here a little earlier than normal. The Patreon release is tomorrow (Time still TBA as I'm doing a final pass of it now), so it will wind up on here any time between then and 1/1 (Which is when I would personally upload it. Public release is always two weeks after the Patreon one).

This next update is definitely a great place to start as it adds a lot of new UI improvements, so I hope you like it!

 

[alex2011]

Very long post incoming! Just wanted to give my praises/criticisms on the game since I just caught up with the recent update.

Spoiler: Some thoughts on the storytelling

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Your comments are definitely well thought out and analyzed down to a pretty good amount of detail, but there is one thing I do have to disagree with. You mentiion this game hitting the same or a similar note each time. I am going to be blunt, so please excuse me if any of this sounds rude or overly agressive, I don't intend that at all. I think you're wrong. What we're seeing is a very gradual ramp up from 100, not a plateau at 100 at every scene. It isn't hitting the same note, but a gradually higher one that will eventually become an obviously much worse situation than we are already in and that point in time will have a major impact on the entire player base. We are going somewhere, but it is a gradual journey. If it was to happen too quickly, the character development would suffer, the scenes would lose a lot, and I do mean A LOT, of their impact because they would become far more frequent, and much of the detail we will likely be getting will not make it in or will have to be minimized to the point that it misses the mark it was aiming for. This is all a VERY common problem in a lot of anime and movies, they just don't have time to do everything planned. In this case, we do have that time since Selebus can take as much time as he needs to get it right, but he cannot rush anything for any reason or it will be wasted effort. This slow, gradual journey is part of what makes LiL one of the few great games on this site let alone one of the few great indie games not developed by more than a single person to exist in recent years if not ever. As Selebus said in his reply, this next update is going to be huge in terms of the main story, so we will see it move quite a bit. This is all, of course, just my own take on the developments so far.

Thank you very much for taking the time to both play and critique my game! I completely agree with basically everything you said, and kind of expected to hear this sort of feedback when I was first thinking up LiL. The greatest worry I always have when looking at my writing from a critical perspective is that it's sort of like this formulaic chaos where, just as you mentioned, it becomes a cycle of dramatic mood shifts that start in similar places and end in similar places. Indulgent is a good word, but I feel that there's a bit more to it than that- and all of it comes from the challenges I knew would arise when creating something of this scale.

The key worry for me has been not moving anything drastically forward until everyone has reached a certain...plateau, I guess- as I very much want this to be a story where the class progresses as a whole in tandem with individual character progression. But having so many fucking characters makes that an interesting challenge. I want everyone to progress together, but progressing so many people at once is quite a laborious and lengthy undertaking. And that's not me making an excuse or anything, just trying to explain where I am and where I want to go.

The coming update is easily the biggest in terms of actual main story beats, so I think you'll start seeing some of that indulgence begin to slip away as the direction the game is heading in becomes more apparent. It is, however, important to note that those incessant cycles of good-to bad-to very bad-to very good-to normal-to weird religious philosophy-to sex-back to good will likely never fully go away. One thing I picked up from SCA-DI (Who I'm very excited to see name-dropped in a discussion about my game as he is probably my biggest influence) is that sort of weird, unfiltered/borderline-nonsensical rambling type of prose. It wasn't until I played Subarashiki Hibi that I thought, "You know what? Fuck it. I'm just going to write for myself and if people like it, they like it." So, while I've completely embraced the fact that I just write whatever comes to my mind rather than sitting down and specifically plotting out who is going to dynamically change and when, I completely understand that that exact quality of my work may be a turn-off for some people. I always know where I want to go, but I admittedly might take a little too long to get there at times.

Last thing to note, as I feel it ties directly back into how the horror aspects are circling around to the same ideas is that, to some extent, that's exactly what they're doing. And while it won't be clear or obvious now, each one of them provides a different sort of hint or tidbit of information that will be vital to "connecting the dots" in the future. We're still only in the first part of the game and there are many gigantic reveals that have yet to even almost-surface- but I'm in this for the long-haul. Hopefully, this next update will be enough to show you that I'm capable of slipping away from that comfortable sort of "formula" I've been writing in but, again, I don't think that style will ever fully fade.

Spoiler: Wall of text

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Anyone else getting rather worried for the characters with all this hype about the next update? Congratulations, you've managed the near-impossible task of making a horror game where I'm actually scared for the character's sake. Bravo.

Yes, VERY freaking worried. Something big sounds like it's going to go down and that is NOT a good thing in this type of game. Welcome to the 'worried about the girls' club, by the way. I've been worried ever since Rin had her first issues, but my worries are just getting worse with every update and "Bluejay" gave them one hell of a boost.

Selebus I'm a bit curious, but I haven't played the game yet, and want to play the one you might be updating this week (tomorrow, I think?), when should we expect you to update it on here man?

Also, thanks for the game! I'm sure there are a lot of people who appreciate your hard work at creating an enjoyable and compelling story.

Free versions of the game come out when the new paid version comes out. So the version releasing tomorrow should be available for free on January 1st I believe.

However, there are people that leak the paid version here earlier. No telling when exactly, but the last one took 4 or 5 days I think? I wouldn't be surprised if it takes longer.

Either way, your save always carries over and there's quite a bit of content currently, so you can start with the version currently on here to see if you like it, then consider possibly paying if you finish it and want more before the new version is out for free.

Ankoku is correct, it will be out on January 1st barring any issues, that's the next update after this December one. That is also not counting leaks, which this game really doesn't deserve, which is a lot coming from a guy who takes just about any free source he can get under normal circumstances. That said, I'm not so much against it that I vehemently oppose leaks of this game, that would be hypocritical. Those are just my personal feelings after having experienced it.

Given the size of this next update, I imagine it will leak here a little earlier than normal. The Patreon release is tomorrow (Time still TBA as I'm doing a final pass of it now), so it will wind up on here any time between then and 1/1 (Which is when I would personally upload it. Public release is always two weeks after the Patreon one).

This next update is definitely a great place to start as it adds a lot of new UI improvements, so I hope you like it!

Maybe, maybe not. The size increase in MB/GB might deter leakers as well, especially those with limited bandwidth. I am REALLY looking forward to the replay feature, there are several events that I want to replay just to see them even though at least two or three still bear the emotional pain of watching Rin suffer.

 

[8bitKink]

>Open the game, get skewered by that philosophical intro
>Close the game, think about life and what im about to do
>Open the game 1 hour later feeling brave and invigorated by [REDACTED] trashy ecchi anime
>1 hour in feeling good about this decision and the promise of emotional roller coaster
Looking forward to see what this game has to offer

 

[Revolver1]

Given the size of this next update, I imagine it will leak here a little earlier than normal. The Patreon release is tomorrow (Time still TBA as I'm doing a final pass of it now), so it will wind up on here any time between then and 1/1 (Which is when I would personally upload it. Public release is always two weeks after the Patreon one).

This next update is definitely a great place to start as it adds a lot of new UI improvements, so I hope you like it!

Oh wow, if you put it like that, it makes me want to hold off on starting the game until then. Thanks man!

 

[alex2011]

Oh wow, if you put it like that, it makes me want to hold off on starting the game until then. Thanks man!

I definitely suggest it, especially since you'll just have even more to do so soon after completing the current version.

 

[arbie8twinducedz]

Anyone else getting rather worried for the characters with all this hype about the next update? Congratulations, you've managed the near-impossible task of making a horror game where I'm actually scared for the character's sake. Bravo.

I'm sure it'll be fine, the world has already ended.

 

[Macrowk]

So i just finished the current version and having picked this up less than a week ago, I am completely taken aback by how great this game is.
Your characters are all unique and loveable and quirky. The girls stories and relationships feel natural.
I feel for some of the non-"romanceable" characters immediately, especially Rin.
The horror aspects were always jarring and hit hard when they happened. Some hit pretty hard.
This was really good and I plan on supporting you and this game. Keep up the amazing work

 

[Voltage Flame]

Started the game for the first time and 12 clicks in I'm already hit with an uppercut of reality... fair enough lol

But on a more serious note, without getting TOO personal, recently got a very pricy ticket cause I suck at being an adult and rent is growing to be more and more unreachable...but when I read the starter line about: "Reality is boring" "Nothing is real, nothing will ever be real. Not me, not you, not the characters in this game. Nothing" "We're all just air" "So how about we breathe together?"

After the obvious existential crisis xD It actually made me take a step back and actually chill for the first time in a while, reminding myself that shit might be heading straight down ATM but I have the power, time, and will to change that for a better direction.

Who knew that an introduction to a sex game would be what I needed lol sorry for the big documentary on my inhaling protocol but after ACTUALLY taking some fresh air in I weirdly enough had to share that little priceless moment

 

[alex2011]

I'm sure it'll be fine, the world has already ended.

Famous last words, remember, this is a game going for that Denpa genre, so 'it'll be fine' is HIGHLY unlikely.

So i just finished the current version and having picked this up less than a week ago, I am completely taken aback by how great this game is.
Your characters are all unique and loveable and quirky. The girls stories and relationships feel natural.
I feel for some of the non-"romanceable" characters immediately, especially Rin.
The horror aspects were always jarring and hit hard when they happened. Some hit pretty hard.
This was really good and I plan on supporting you and this game. Keep up the amazing work

Yeah, poor Rin had to have been through one hell of a nightmare situation to get that bad, she's pretty much teetering on that final precipice at this point with one little push being all it could take. Thank god the rejection wasn't that push. Definitely worth the support, which I can't say about a lot of games.

Started the game for the first time and 12 clicks in I'm already hit with an uppercut of reality... fair enough lol

But on a more serious note, without getting TOO personal, recently got a very pricy ticket cause I suck at being an adult and rent is growing to be more and more unreachable...but when I read the starter line about: "Reality is boring" "Nothing is real, nothing will ever be real. Not me, not you, not the characters in this game. Nothing" "We're all just air" "So how about we breathe together?"

After the obvious existential crisis xD It actually made me take a step back and actually chill for the first time in a while, reminding myself that shit might be heading straight down ATM but I have the power, time, and will to change that for a better direction.

Who knew that an introduction to a sex game would be what I needed lol sorry for the big documentary on my inhaling protocol but after ACTUALLY taking some fresh air in I weirdly enough had to share that little priceless moment

Good for you, where there's a will, there's a way. Keep at it and your efforts will pay off, the only real question is when. Yeah, some of the dialogue and even some of the events hit pretty hard, especially to those who have experience with an aspect portrayed. I would prepare myself if I were you because that opener is NOT the worst the game can throw at you, I will say no more for spoiler reasons since you didn't say you finished. I do have to point out one thing, though. This game is being treated more as a game with sex than a sex game, the difference being a sex game is primarily about the sex and a game with sex is primarily about the story with sex elements as a secondary focus. This is actually the reason that not all of the scenes have animation to them, usually only when repeated if the scene is repeatable, so the player can focus on what the game is saying during those scenes.

 

[Raf-Raf]

They said some of the parts of this game will make you despair,
The only part that made me despair is my own mistakes of replacing the latest save with my latest new game save...

Can I borrow a hope-sama in real life to reset it just before I replace it?
I am literally..back...to square one...

 

[ElukiaTV]

Can I borrow a hope-sama in real life to reset it just before I replace it?
I am literally..back...to square one...

Good luck with the any% speedrun

 

[Voltage Flame]

Famous last words, remember, this is a game going for that Denpa genre, so 'it'll be fine' is HIGHLY unlikely.


Yeah, poor Rin had to have been through one hell of a nightmare situation to get that bad, she's pretty much teetering on that final precipice at this point with one little push being all it could take. Thank god the rejection wasn't that push. Definitely worth the support, which I can't say about a lot of games.


Good for you, where there's a will, there's a way. Keep at it and your efforts will pay off, the only real question is when. Yeah, some of the dialogue and even some of the events hit pretty hard, especially to those who have experience with an aspect portrayed. I would prepare myself if I were you because that opener is NOT the worst the game can throw at you, I will say no more for spoiler reasons since you didn't say you finished. I do have to point out one thing, though. This game is being treated more as a game with sex than a sex game, the difference being a sex game is primarily about the sex and a game with sex is primarily about the story with sex elements as a secondary focus. This is actually the reason that not all of the scenes have animation to them, usually only when repeated if the scene is repeatable, so the player can focus on what the game is saying during those scenes.

I absolutely agree with you! Efforts will blossom rewards and will pay off, one way or another. I honestly wasn't lying when I said that was my first time playing the game and that I DID wrote this while still going through the prologue. So massive props for not spoiling anything :3 I'm very quickly getting attached to this game and its characters!
Didn't mean any harm when I called it "Just a sex game" since I know next to nothing about this game but after playing for a bit I totally understand what you hinted towards...

Spoiler

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[Raf-Raf]

Good luck with the any% speedrun

Not interested in those, I just want to revisit the beach event over and over...

 

[alex2011]

They said some of the parts of this game will make you despair,
The only part that made me despair is my own mistakes of replacing the latest save with my latest new game save...

Can I borrow a hope-sama in real life to reset it just before I replace it?
I am literally..back...to square one...

I haven't done it yet, I know, I've been saying I would and haven't. I have my lazy spells. I've been using Oblivion's save ever since I realized I screwed up. I did despair for that reason, but not nearly as much as for my inability, at least right now, to help these girls. Watching Rin suffer is pain incarnate and then there's "Bluejay" to experience. I'm still dealing with the shock every time it comes up, I can literally picture that scene in my head right now just as vividly as I can the creepy, pain filled smile on Rin's face in her events. I know, I know, I'm doing it to myself by even bringing those two up. I think that second despair, the despair directed at the girls, is what Selebus is going for and he did one hell of a job already. It scares me to think this isn't even the worst we'll be seeing.

I absolutely agree with you! Efforts will blossom rewards and will pay off, one way or another. I honestly wasn't lying when I said that was my first time playing the game and that I DID wrote this while still going through the prologue. So massive props for not spoiling anything :3 I'm very quickly getting attached to this game and its characters!
Didn't mean any harm when I called it "Just a sex game" since I know next to nothing about this game but after playing for a bit I totally understand what you hinted towards...

Spoiler

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Oh no, I didn't think you meant any harm by that, I just stated it because that is an extremely common misconception for both this game and F95 in general, that this is supposedly a porn game site despite the no sexual content tag existing. You see comments to that effect in every single no sexual content tagged thread. I try not to spoil and I am VERY quickly learning how to use spoilers and inline spoilers to hide content in my comments that would spoil events. Usually, when I use them, it is a part of my comment directly stating what happens in a scene. Even though it doesn't tell anyone what scene, it is still directly describing events and I don't want to diminish the massive impact of the first play through for anyone. I did get attached to each of the girls fairly quickly, though it did take a few updates to finally reach the level where I worry about them as if they were real, which is abnormal behavior for me in regards to games. Yeah, watch out for those 'happy' scenes, they can be a bit jarring. Especially with the randomness of their appearance. You never know when one might pop up at complete random. I've stumbled into about 80% to 90% completely by accident and only needed to look up one or two to see what triggers them.

Not interested in those, I just want to revisit the beach event over and over...

Next update will help with that, at least the parts that aren't H scenes. We can revisit H scenes already.

 

[Raf-Raf]

Oblivion's save

From Morrowind saves to Skyrim, I have done this mistake so many dam- times

 

[JMccovery]

Bruh, that Rin thumbnail... Why you gotta hurt me like this?

I haven't even actually done any new events, because I've been sitting here switching between Miku's outfits. She looks like an entirely different girl!