Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.45.0] [Selebus]

[akselx]

I'm kind of just assuming there was a multi-car accident that happened because Sensei was getting blown by Ami's mother, or something similar. Almost comical despite the tragedy, but completely within Sensei's lecherous nature.

Yeah, with his brother in the same car and him at the wheel (maybe that's why he doesn't drive anymore). Ironically, he was the only one surviving, even though he was driving. That would be a twist.

 

[alex2011]

You know, one of my favourite things about this game is how the discussion here isn't about asking if the game's been abandoned, if there's a release date coming up, or complaining about the quality (like 99% of other games on here). It's actually about talking about the game's content, which is pretty refreshing.

To be fair, that's because Selebus has only ever taken one unplanned extension, that being back when Texas had those power issues related to cold weather. Most games that get this asked about take a long time to update while he has rarely ever gone over twice a month in length between updates since he implemented the twice a month schedule.

That's why I think they retain no memories of past loops. At least, the girls who were in the class the day Sensei meets the girls for the first time do.

Yumi (who skipped) and the Floor 2 girls? All bets are off. I need to finish the careful analytical replay I started two weeks ago to see if their are other signs that Yumi has some meta-knowledge the other girls lack beyond what I"ve already called out.

Yeah, they seem to be "trained", like Pavlov's dog, to not to think about those inconsistencies, otherwise they get a headache and lose time.


I think we need to differentiate between resets and loops. One loop may consist of several resets, in which some memories carry over, unless they threaten mental integrity of a girl. Sensei's memories are untouched. Until now, no other Sensei got further than 2 resets within one loop.


Oh, I forgot that she was out the first day. So, maybe didn't get "factory reset" properly and a bit of an aberration within this loop. That's why Sensei gets out of synch with her.


Didn't that happen already and she just got a headache and moved on from a topic or am I misremembering? Oh, and didn't we got a glimpse of another reality in the beach event, where she got a job and reunited with her mother. Maybe that's what was supposed to happen if only she got reset properly, meaning Sensei would never tried to assault her and would have made all of that possible.

They don't seem retain memories or question inconsistencies unless they had some sort of interaction with him as if his protection from the resets, because he does retain his memories so far, is rubbing off on them. Especially the ones starting to question things like going to the beach the second time, they may be affected by his presence so that they retain some memory.

I'm kind of just assuming there was a multi-car accident that happened because Sensei was getting blown by Ami's mother, or something similar. Almost comical despite the tragedy, but completely within Sensei's lecherous nature.

I'm still not sure this nature of his was even a thing before the accident.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Didn't that happen already and she just got a headache and moved on from a topic or am I misremembering? Oh, and didn't we got a glimpse of another reality in the beach event, where she got a job and reunited with her mother. Maybe that's what was supposed to happen if only she got reset properly, meaning Sensei would never tried to assault her and would have made all of that possible.

Usually when she gets close to broaching the subject, Sensei glitches and wanders off.

I think the beach scene was a memory of a past loop. Not something that should have happened, but something that already had.

Yeah, with his brother in the same car and him at the wheel (maybe that's why he doesn't drive anymore). Ironically, he was the only one surviving, even though he was driving. That would be a twist.

Assuming this isn't Sensei's purgatory, which would technically mean he died, too, and is having to atone for their deaths, among his other sins.

I'm still not sure this nature of his was even a thing before the accident.

During one of the happy scenes (or maybe it was a Main scene that had happy elements), there's some exposition. "IN the beginning, there was a god. He fucked everything, then he died" or something like that.


I've always assumed that meant OG Sensei.

 

[akselx]

There hasn't been a confirmed reset prior to the start of the game,

Maya.

all we have to go on is the fact that those previous things, the detentions for example, happened.

Not denying they happened, simply saying that they possibly took place within The Loops and not Before.

If I remember correctly, the comparison was to NPCs. That is correct that their memories are not an indication that their Sensei was there prior to the game, however, they aren't an indication that it wasn't their Sensei prior to the start,

And I'm not making definitive statements about it, just point out that it's a possibility. That just because they remember he was the Sensei for a short time and were a normal teacher and responsible adult, that doesn't mean it actually been that way. Maya talked several times about recontextualization of memories and, while she was talking about in a context of several resets whithin one loop, it might apply to all the loops in general.
Admittedly, there isn't much evidence to that, just saying it's possible that Sensei were never a teacher before loops.

in fact, the very first lines of the scene where he wakes in the classroom seem to indicate that he just arrived. Remember that he likened it to being isekaied, that indicates he is just then ending up in that world.

Yes, I was mentiong this exaple before in context of why this Sensei and previous Senseis are all different people.

I'm still entertaining the idea that these aren't different people inhabiting the same body, but split personalities of the same person.

This is true for THIS Sensei, but not for the previous ones, I believe. Or I'm certain that that's what Maya believes.

That lack of information is what makes this topic so puzzling and interesting to theorize.

Also confusing.

I also believe the detentions to be from before the resets began. What she was told by the other Sensei does seem to be out of character for player Sensei, but not old Sensei, that sounds exactly like something old Sensei would say. If these monologues happen to be old Sensei leaking back out, then it sounds like old Sensei took his job seriously and actually cared for his students. Telling a student they are wasting their potential or punishing them for something in school, usually by detention, would fall in line with a caring teacher as well.

Could be, but I think they might have happened within the Loops and were recontextualized by Yumi. I think I made a pretty compelling argument previousely (2 pages up, I think) that Maya believe previous Sensei's to be entirely different people and this one is OG, in this case some of the previous fakes might have been responsible adults and behaved accordingly.

They might have or they might not have, we have no evidence to support or deny retroactive placement of memories. The forged journal may not be an indicator he wasn't a teacher, maybe it was a proactive aid written by Maya after the change to help him become closer to what he was before. Possibly even an attempt at a backup of sorts, something to jog him back to being him.

Yes, as I said, not much evidence. Pretty much the only things I go off of are the fact that people's memories in this world can be edited out (in this case, why not edited it?), they all seem to be prone to just accepting certain things about their setting without questioning (space war, weird seasons) and time fuckery.

 

[akselx]

Usually when she gets close to broaching the subject, Sensei glitches and wanders off.

I think the beach scene was a memory of a past loop. Not something that should have happened, but something that already had.

Well, yeah, but things kinda have a set path, no? So in other loops, she got reset properly, Sensei weren't glitching in her presence and never tried to assault her, they got friendly and Yumi reconnected with mother. All of that happened within two resets, as we know that no other Sensei got further then 2.
(Just in case: loop is a number of consecutive resets with the same Sensei)

I've always assumed that meant OG Sensei.

There were also something about the new god, the calous one (although, which one of three gods is the calous one isn't clear). If Sensei one of the gods, that might be him.

I'm more interested in the Gods of this setting tbh, the Wire-God is implied to be Ami's mom (Sekai i think) and Nozomu is implied to be Ami's dad (who's name is Nozomu), and i think HOPE is probably, possibly, the love child of Sensei and Sekai's love affair.

Forgot to address this one: I think that Hope is actually a Wire-Tree-God. Or maybe it doesn't really matter, because all three are One. Selebus seems to be playing with Christian concept of trinity.

 

[mannice431]

Forgot to address this one: I think that Hope is actually a Wire-Tree-God. Or maybe it doesn't really matter, because all three are One. Selebus seems to be playing with Christian concept of trinity.

My problem with this is that they seem to be antagonistic towards each other, at one point during one of the happy scenes HOPE asks Sensei to choose the correct god (or something along those lines) and then says "there are 2 wrong answers".

If they're more or less the same thing, why do they seem at odds with one another?

 

[akselx]

My problem with this is that they seem to be antagonistic towards each other, at one point during one of the happy scenes HOPE asks Sensei to choose the correct god (or something along those lines) and then says "there are 2 wrong answers".

If they're more or less the same thing, why do they seem at odds with one another?

Do you remember the name of event?

 

[alex2011]

Usually when she gets close to broaching the subject, Sensei glitches and wanders off.

I think the beach scene was a memory of a past loop. Not something that should have happened, but something that already had.



Assuming this isn't Sensei's purgatory, which would technically mean he died, too, and is having to atone for their deaths, among his other sins.




During one of the happy scenes (or maybe it was a Main scene that had happy elements), there's some exposition. "IN the beginning, there was a god. He fucked everything, then he died" or something like that.


I've always assumed that meant OG Sensei.

I have never equated any version of Sensei with the gods, I believe those to be separate entities entirely from these personalities/versions of Sensei. Especially given how some of said gods do appear simultaneously in some form along with him.

Maya.


Not denying they happened, simply saying that they possibly took place within The Loops and not Before.


And I'm not making definitive statements about it, just point out that it's a possibility. That just because they remember he was the Sensei for a short time and were a normal teacher and responsible adult, that doesn't mean it actually been that way. Maya talked several times about recontextualization of memories and, while she was talking about in a context of several resets whithin one loop, it might apply to all the loops in general.
Admittedly, there isn't much evidence to that, just saying it's possible that Sensei were never a teacher before loops.


Yes, I was mentiong this exaple before in context of why this Sensei and previous Senseis are all different people.


This is true for THIS Sensei, but not for the previous ones, I believe. Or I'm certain that that's what Maya believes.


Also confusing.


Could be, but I think they might have happened within the Loops and were recontextualized by Yumi. I think I made a pretty compelling argument previousely (2 pages up, I think) that Maya believe previous Sensei's to be entirely different people and this one is OG, in this case some of the previous fakes might have been responsible adults and behaved accordingly.


Yes, as I said, not much evidence. Pretty much the only things I go off of are the fact that people's memories in this world can be edited out (in this case, why not edited it?), they all seem to be prone to just accepting certain things about their setting without questioning (space war, weird seasons) and time fuckery.

Prior to the start of the game, I said.

I didn't say you were denying they happened and I hope I didn't come across as implying it, I didn't mean to if I did. Unfortunately, even with clear evidence of previous resets prior to the game, we also need to know how far back those resets go, they may still fall short of these previous happenings like the detentions. I still don't buy the hundred years thing or whatever it was as being how long the resets have been happening because, like I said, the girls are questioning repeated events to some degree and you would think this questioning being compounded multiple times over hundreds of years would cause that retention to have driven them insane by now. The human brain can only handle so much stress and each compounding sense of doing things over and over would add to that stress.

Certainly not, no definitive statements should be possible with such little information, only theories.

I originally thought about the isekai thing meaning the different Senseis were separate people, but given things Maya has said, about different versions and not being the correct one, I believe this to actually be a case of split personalities. Old Sensei was the kind Sensei all the girls of the original main cast knew and was the teacher of that class while player Sensei is a newly surfaced, but entirely complete personality that surfaced in response to, potentially, the trauma of the accident.

No, THIS Sensei is one of those split personalities if his personality even split at any point. With split personalities, what is true of one personality is true of all others generally speaking. Not so much when going into the specifics, but when talking about being the same person with a different personality, it doesn't matter which Sensei you talk about. If these are different split personalities, they are still all the same person.

Very confusing at times, but the challenge is fun.

I still think the detentions were before and Yumi happened to retain those memories considering other main cast members have retained some form of memories in other events, such as remembering the first beach trip having happened.

I would say the space war is definitely from before the resets given that it is a war and sounds like it had already been going , but the odd seasons and events happening in what someone perceives as an odd time of year or happening not long after something else, including the same event in a previous reset in some cases, is being questioned to an extent. They aren't full blown complaining or anything like that, but questions have been raised.

Well, yeah, but things kinda have a set path, no? So in other loops, she got reset properly, Sensei weren't glitching in her presence and never tried to assault her, they got friendly and Yumi reconnected with mother. All of that happened within two resets, as we know that no other Sensei got further then 2.
(Just in case: loop is a number of consecutive resets with the same Sensei)


There were also something about the new god, the calous one (although, which one of three gods is the calous one isn't clear). If Sensei one of the gods, that might be him.


Forgot to address this one: I think that Hope is actually a Wire-Tree-God. Or maybe it doesn't really matter, because all three are One. Selebus seems to be playing with Christian concept of trinity.

I'm pretty sure Wire Tree and HOPE were at odds with each other if I remember the early Yasu events correctly.

 

[mannice431]

Do you remember the name of event?

Not really, but someone here probably remembers the event, they kinda start blurring together at some point.

 

[akselx]

Prior to the start of the game, I said.

How do you define start of the game? Do you include things that allegedly happened, according to Maya in "the game"?

would cause that retention to have driven them insane by now. The human brain can only handle so much stress and each compounding sense of doing things over and over would add to that stress.

That is, assuming they are human. But consider how Makoto were "fixed" when she got too much out of "character". Also, while they retain memories between RESETS, that is not the case with the LOOPS (although, as I previously said, they may retain and recontextualize some things). Maybe all of them have this nagging deja vu feeling in the back of their minds. We just haven't explored it yet. Or maybe, the effects aren't as obvious. Take Wakana. She doesn't seem to experience deja vu, or glitch, but instead has this overwhelming feeling that everything she does is meaningless, because intuitively, she made a connection: constant resets -> pupils never graduate -> her job is pointless.

Certainly not, no definitive statements should be possible with such little information, only theories.

I originally thought about the isekai thing meaning the different Senseis were separate people, but given things Maya has said, about different versions and not being the correct one, I believe this to actually be a case of split personalities. Old Sensei was the kind Sensei all the girls of the original main cast knew and was the teacher of that class while player Sensei is a newly surfaced, but entirely complete personality that surfaced in response to, potentially, the trauma of the accident.

No, THIS Sensei is one of those split personalities if his personality even split at any point. With split personalities, what is true of one personality is true of all others generally speaking. Not so much when going into the specifics, but when talking about being the same person with a different personality, it doesn't matter which Sensei you talk about. If these are different split personalities, they are still all the same person.

I'm not following you on this one. Do you think that previous iterations of Sensei (from previous loops) were the same guy, just different personalities, or it was always the same guy with two personas of OG Sensei and cynical Sensei?

Him being isekai'd would also imply that he had another life, different from this one, no Nakiyamas, Arakawas, tutoring. I do distinctly remember him saying somewhere at the beginning that he no longer remembers what his life was, implying that at some point at the beginning of LiL he had at least vague memories.

Which makes me think of this:
he had his "real" life -> died -> was put in new body -> lived as Sensei Arakawa, dated Nikki as teenager, were a tutor to Maya -> grow up, something happens -> he's out of the body -> other "dead" people take turns to be "Sensei", while Maya waits all this time through resets for a "real deal" to finally get his turn -> she doesn't want him to "succeed" (she straight up says she wants him to fail to a "certain extent", that stuck with me, just can't find the event), nor to disappear, just to keep on living.

I still think the detentions were before and Yumi happened to retain those memories considering other main cast members have retained some form of memories in other events, such as remembering the first beach trip having happened.

Oh, boy, let's make it more confusing.
What do you mean by "before"? Previous Time Loops or Before Time Loops, aka in "Normal World"?
And they do retain memories between the resets (not loops), they just got all confused when they think about time. As you mention below.

I would say the space war is definitely from before the resets given that it is a war and sounds like it had already been going , but the odd seasons and events happening in what someone perceives as an odd time of year or happening not long after something else, including the same event in a previous reset in some cases, is being questioned to an extent.

They aren't full blown complaining or anything like that, but questions have been raised.

I remember it was more like "isn't it werid, lol?" and not actually questioning things. To my point: they mostly take things as is. So I can easily imagine them accepting a weird guy dropped on them as their homeroom teacher out of nowhere at the very beginning of The Loops, rationalizing it away and then, after several loops all those events and partly forgotten memories formed a proper legend.

I'm pretty sure Wire Tree and HOPE were at odds with each other if I remember the early Yasu events correctly.

I don't remember, need to replay. I do remember a lot of wiring and trees in Yasu's dialogues with Sensei.

 

[alex2011]

How do you define start of the game? Do you include things that allegedly happened, according to Maya in "the game"?


That is, assuming they are human. But consider how Makoto were "fixed" when she got too much out of "character". Also, while they retain memories between RESETS, that is not the case with the LOOPS (although, as I previously said, they may retain and recontextualize some things). Maybe all of them have this nagging deja vu feeling in the back of their minds. We just haven't explored it yet. Or maybe, the effects aren't as obvious. Take Wakana. She doesn't seem to experience deja vu, or glitch, but instead has this overwhelming feeling that everything she does is meaningless, because intuitively, she made a connection: constant resets -> pupils never graduate -> her job is pointless.


I'm not following you on this one. Do you think that previous iterations of Sensei (from previous loops) were the same guy, just different personalities, or it was always the same guy with two personas of OG Sensei and cynical Sensei?

Him being isekai'd would also imply that he had another life, different from this one, no Nakiyamas, Arakawas, tutoring. I do distinctly remember him saying somewhere at the beginning that he no longer remembers what his life was, implying that at some point at the beginning of LiL he had at least vague memories.

Which makes me think of this:
he had his "real" life -> died -> was put in new body -> lived as Sensei Arakawa, dated Nikki as teenager, were a tutor to Maya -> grow up, something happens -> he's out of the body -> other "dead" people take turns to be "Sensei", while Maya waits all this time through resets for a "real deal" to finally get his turn -> she doesn't want him to "succeed" (she straight up says she wants him to fail to a "certain extent", that stuck with me, just can't find the event), nor to disappear, just to keep on living.


Oh, boy, let's make it more confusing.
What do you mean by "before"? Previous Time Loops or Before Time Loops, aka in "Normal World"?
And they do retain memories between the resets (not loops), they just got all confused when they think about time. As you mention below.




I remember it was more like "isn't it werid, lol?" and not actually questioning things. To my point: they mostly take things as is. So I can easily imagine them accepting a weird guy dropped on them as their homeroom teacher out of nowhere at the very beginning of The Loops, rationalizing it away and then, after several loops all those events and partly forgotten memories formed a proper legend.


I don't remember, need to replay. I do remember a lot of wiring and trees in Yasu's dialogues with Sensei.

Start of the game = when player Sensei wakes up at the desk. Anything said after that point is included as well.

Which currently all my theories are assuming they are human, I have no reason to believe otherwise. As for Makoto, nothing has happened with her to make me believe she isn't human. The way she was reset is consistent with all the other odd things going on, which are not necessarily inhuman. As for the resets, loops and resets are the same, hence why I try to exclusively use resets. With each reset comes a period in between. I believe the only thing going on in this period is slight retention of memories, everything happened as stated and they are simply remembering, it just didn't necessarily happen in the specific reset they mention it in, such as mentioning certain events having happened, or even during the resets at all, like with the Yumi detentions. As for Wakana, I have a feeling her issues that led to recent events with her are to blame for her not mentioning anything, she may be too focused on her issues.

Yes, I believe that Sensei is being carried over in full. In fact, my theory is that so long as they are alive when a reset happens, they all carry over with potentially some retained memories from outside the resets or from previous resets. On the opposite side, anyone who dies before a reset takes effect, let's say Makoto had actually managed to die in Bluejay, then that person is lost forever and may or may not be forgotten or their absence questioned if not forgotten. The Sensei we see now is the same Sensei they know, but he has gone through a change because of the accident that killed Ami's parents. He may blame himself for it even and the trauma inflicted might be enough to trigger a split personality as a coping mechanism, his mind trying to save itself by splitting off the damaged part of his psyche, old or OG Sensei, from the rest, which is what we know as player Sensei. Furthermore, player Sensei seems to have taken control over the person known as Sensei, leaving old Sensei dormant somewhere in Sensei's mind.

I do not believe this to be an isekai at all, but instead just what player Sensei rationalized it as when he woke up in an unfamiliar place because he has none of old Sensei's memories.

I could have sworn I typed 'before the resets' on that next part, but that's what I meant. I still believe the detentions to have happened before the resets even started.

'Isn't it weird' would be someone questioning what is going on. They have this feeling they were already there not that long ago doing the same thing, but here they are again. Not a full case of deja vu, just an odd feeling that what they are doing had already happened. As has been said, they seem to be adapting, which is why they aren't in a full blown panic about repeating events. They aren't accepting some weird guy, they already knew him as their teacher, but he's beginning to act strange. What further drives this point into my theory is the genre of the game an its definition, which basically amounts to "familiar characters acting in unfamiliar ways." What we are seeing, according to my theory, is that effect of the Denpa genre. They knew Sensei already, he has been their teacher, so he is familiar, but he is acting in an unfamiliar way through player Sensei versus the familiar old or OG Sensei.

If I remember correctly, Yasu is a follower of Wire Tree, whereas Sensei is more aligned with HOPE or at least seems to be even if not willingly.

 

[Deleted member 1697433]

This thread has to have one of the highest word counts on all of F95

 

[StoLat]

This thread has to have one of the highest word counts on all of F95

I wonder when the first PhD thesis on LiL and the thread will be submitted.

 

[Deleted member 1697433]

I wonder when the first PhD thesis on LiL and the thread will be submitted.

A few people have already sent me 15+ page analyses on events thus far

 

[StoLat]

A few people have already sent me 15+ page analyses on events thus far

15 pp PhD theses are only allowed in advanced maths ;-)

 

[alex2011]

I wonder when the first PhD thesis on LiL and the thread will be submitted.

I'm working as fast as I can, these take time.

A few people have already sent me 15+ page analyses on events thus far

Sounds like some people REALLY like the game, they wouldn't have gone to so much trouble to do that otherwise.

 

[KnowNoHope]

A few people have already sent me 15+ page analyses on events thus far

makes your job easier when you hit a roadblock at least. hell if you wanted to you could probably sit back and let the fans drive the narrative. 10 grand a month to sit back and let other people do it for free for you. CAPITALISM HO!

 

[alex2011]

makes your job easier when you hit a roadblock at least. hell if you wanted to you could probably sit back and let the fans drive the narrative. 10 grand a month to sit back and let other people do it for free for you. CAPITALISM HO!

He could, but that would defeat the stated purpose of development, which if I rememer correctly was to develop what he wants, not what we want. To let us drive the narrative would change that to developing what we want, not to mention how it might ruin things as then the Denpa opposed players, that means playerss who don't like the 'happy' events and other things that play into the Denpa genre, like Sensei being as he started to become at the start of the game or Rin acting like she did recently, might jump on the chance to get rid of future instances of the Denpa aspects, which in a Denpa game is a VERY bad thing. Familiar characters acting in familiar ways is the exact opposite of Denpa and quite a few people seem to be opposed to familiar characters acting in unfamiliar ways due to it being 'out of character' or something like that. Yes, it's out of character, intentionally so.

 

[KnowNoHope]

He could, but that would defeat the stated purpose of development, which if I rememer correctly was to develop what he wants, not what we want. To let us drive the narrative would change that to developing what we want, not to mention how it might ruin things as then the Denpa opposed players, that means playerss who don't like the 'happy' events and other things that play into the Denpa genre, like Sensei being as he started to become at the start of the game or Rin acting like she did recently, might jump on the chance to get rid of future instances of the Denpa aspects, which in a Denpa game is a VERY bad thing. Familiar characters acting in familiar ways is the exact opposite of Denpa and quite a few people seem to be opposed to familiar characters acting in unfamiliar ways due to it being 'out of character' or something like that. Yes, it's out of character, intentionally so.

like I said, he could, not that he should, or that he is.
the real question has selebus hit it big enough to sell out yet like everything else I have ever enjoyed

 

[alutarox]

He could, but that would defeat the stated purpose of development, which if I rememer correctly was to develop what he wants, not what we want. To let us drive the narrative would change that to developing what we want, not to mention how it might ruin things as then the Denpa opposed players, that means playerss who don't like the 'happy' events and other things that play into the Denpa genre, like Sensei being as he started to become at the start of the game or Rin acting like she did recently, might jump on the chance to get rid of future instances of the Denpa aspects, which in a Denpa game is a VERY bad thing. Familiar characters acting in familiar ways is the exact opposite of Denpa and quite a few people seem to be opposed to familiar characters acting in unfamiliar ways due to it being 'out of character' or something like that. Yes, it's out of character, intentionally so.

Counterpoint: I doubt anyone writing 15-page essays re:LiL is one of said group of players.