Next update is delayed by a couple of weeks due to a Patreon crackdown on the game, thanks to specific content they don't like (incest and sexualisation of young-looking characters), so Selebus will take some time to figure out how modify the game to be Patreon-accepted while still allowing supporters there to be able to have the full experience.
Here are links to a short tongue-in-cheek game he made to convey his own thoughts on the matter:
PC:
Mac:
More info on the topic can be found on the supporters section of his Discord, where you can also ask him questions related to this, though you can of course only access this if you support him financially so I won't share that discourse here. Go support him if you can!
Here are links to a short tongue-in-cheek game he made to convey his own thoughts on the matter:
PC:
You must be registered to see the links
Mac:
You must be registered to see the links
More info on the topic can be found on the supporters section of his Discord, where you can also ask him questions related to this, though you can of course only access this if you support him financially so I won't share that discourse here. Go support him if you can!
- Oct 15, 2019
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Man, Patreon really fkd up in that regard. Who cares about incest? People are paying and they are happy, so get lost. Hope Selebus moves to SS and be happy without so much mindfk from somewhere you...okay, actually expect, and thats actually a giant red flag already.
Though I was scared for a moment that the problem came from "this game made with KK so get rekt" and not from something as trivial as incest thing. It can be easily mitigated with "its not niece its "niece" since we are not bloodrelated and stuff wink-wink" in the beginning or something.
This is going to be a perk for people who started this game earlier and will know that she is an actual niece. Early access privileges in its finest!
Though I was scared for a moment that the problem came from "this game made with KK so get rekt" and not from something as trivial as incest thing. It can be easily mitigated with "its not niece its "niece" since we are not bloodrelated and stuff wink-wink" in the beginning or something.
This is going to be a perk for people who started this game earlier and will know that she is an actual niece. Early access privileges in its finest!
- Sep 5, 2020
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This is kind of inevitable, sadly.
In some coutnries, a fictional depiction of statutory rape or incest is treated with the same weight as actual performing the deed. Payment processors want to do business with those countries, so when those counties catch wind of a trend, they lean on the payment processors.
The payment processors then lean on the heavy offenders -- like they did on Pornhub and Onlyfans this year. Credit cards dropped Pornhub, and Onlyfans was forced to make a very unpopular change that nearly cost them %90 of their creators. The furor over that gave them the leverage they needed to reach a compromise with the processors, and they were able to scale back the policy change -- but to a large extent that damage is done and the processors got what they wanted, OnlyFans is forever compromised as a sex work platform.
So every once in a while Patreon gets leaned on in the same way, and they go through this process as well. Eventually, all the eroge creators will leave Patreon and wind up on Subscribestar or similar sites -- but then SS will be large enough to wind up on the processor's radar and they'll start leaning on THEM and we get to do this all over again.
It won't stop until the shitty laws change.
I'm doubtful that "sexualisation of young-looking characters" can be dealt with in "a couple of weeks". The first problem is what is young-looking? Ami, Kirin, Noriko, Miku, Maya, Molly, IO would all easily fit the definition but what about Otoha, Ayane, Sana, etc. I guarantee you that you can find someone at Patreon who will think they are "young-looking". Maybe there was a short list provided which are the main problem(s)?
Also.. once someone is making $10K+ on Patreon I avoid supporting them. There are so many other VNs that need financial support.
Does anyone have or know if the patch in Spanish for Lessons In Love Part2-0.20.0-pc has already been released
Selebus already has a SubscribeStar, and it's confirmed the version there will remain unaltered.
- Nov 3, 2019
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I've never seen a game not go to shit after a patreon crackdown except PinkTeaGames, which releases a shit version of the game on patreon and a better version on Subscribestar. Hope selebus does the same, or this game will probably go to shit like all others
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Hopefully Selebus can bypass this by downright stating they're all over 18 or somethin. Pay lip service to patreon.
- Oct 15, 2019
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And there are only 58 subscribers when Patreon have 1719. Yeah, I doubt that even half of the subs go to SS even if Patreon goes with censorship. Though Selebus can give a link to uncensored version in Discord its still quite a work to make 2 different versions. And how long will it take to make the current one "censored", so much time just throw out of window because of karens.
- Jul 22, 2019
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- Nov 3, 2019
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I don't think that it'll take too long the make the current one censored. PinkTea Games did that and all they did was remove a fuckload of content, which shouldn't be too hard. I'd think that if we get rid of all ami sex scenes in the censored version, patreon should be happy enough ....
And then Selebus could post ami mod to restore ami content either on f95zone or discord, possible under a different name to evade patreon
- Oct 15, 2019
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Or even better, ask the player who is she. Originally? Selebus said that she is a landlord. What? You want to make her your niece? Sure, you sick bastard!
Its not that hard, and Selebus implemented that earlier with "how will the girl call you while you are having sex". Just change every niece in the text into the variable that was decided by the player at the beginning of the game. And thats it. Not that much change needed, just skim through the text and change one word keeping everything else intact (with, maybe, tiiiiiiiny alterations with something like "this is your sister and she was my mother" bits, otherwise, everything is fair game). Though some scenes will look strange if you decide to name her landlord as it would be by default. Like, "Best landlord battle" with Noriko xD
Many games do that and there is nothing wrong with it. Just following dumb rules. There is no incest that way, right?
From what he said on the discord, the issue isn't just with the incest: the issue is that Koikatsu's art style kind of inherently makes all the girls young-looking. They weren't saying "make it not a niece," they were saying "make all of this art look less young" (kind of like what happened with Runey in Harem Hotel, except for every character and not just Ashley). Which is obviously impossible to do, so his current plan (which might change) is to instead turn the Patreon version into a SFW version, but in a really obvious way that makes it clear that it was censored: all the sex scene art will be replaced with stock images and the text be changed to be about Sensei hugging, and Ami will be your [REDACTED] instead of your niece. Subscribestar and Itch.io will not be changed, and patches will exist to convert the SFW versions into the full version.
It sucks that patreon is forcing him to do this shit instead of working on 21p2, but whatever.
It sucks that patreon is forcing him to do this shit instead of working on 21p2, but whatever.
- Oct 15, 2019
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Wow, seriously? Thats fucked up...I really want to see this now xD
Since it would be done either if we want it or not, the least we can do is enjoy it =)
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Maybe now would be a good time to move everything to SubscribeStar exclusively since his project doesn't have a future on Patreon the way he wants it. Patreon doesn't even allow for alternate versions, they started cracking down on that a while ago, it's their way or no way.
The credit card companies and payment services like PayPal care, that's why Patreon banned such things in the first place. Money talks and it talks loudly when there's a lot of it on the line for a large company. Selebus already has a SubscribeStar, the only thing left is to urge everyone from his Patreon to switch. I just hope Selebus doesn't bend his knee since, as much as I support him, bending his knee would be a killing blow to my support.
These companies and countries need to embrace logic, fake characters can't get hurt, that's why it's okay to do those things to them.
If I had to guess, all the student characters because they are in high school, some are small or even flat chested, and these people seem to think flat means young. I have a friend from college that would be seriously offended by that sentiment, she's tiny in height, too, just like Sana.
Patreon: But they can't do that, it's against our rules. (Yes, Patreon has been known to take action against games with a version that is on their site for games with a separate version that is in violation of their ToS elsewhere)
Me: Shove your rules where the sun doesn't shine, that isn't even your site to control. (I would love to tell them this in person, they've ruined far too many games)
Sadly, Patreon seems to think they can control any game on their site, including versions not on their site, and it is inevitable that games will go to shit for it. They HAVE cracked down on other games that pull this separate version move before and I'm surprised Pink Tea isn't one of the developers to get hit by that, maybe he's too small. Selebus has gotten quite a bit of attention, however, so I am not surprised they finally got him and would not be surprised if they try to keep him from keeping two separate versions. I would be surprised if the unaltered version lasts more than two updates before his Patreon gets terminated for maintaining a version with violating content and I am thoroughly surprised they took this long to hit him in the first place.I've never seen a game not go to shit after a patreon crackdown except PinkTeaGames, which releases a shit version of the game on patreon and a better version on Subscribestar. Hope selebus does the same, or this game will probably go to shit like all others
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Hopefully Selebus can bypass this by downright stating they're all over 18 or somethin. Pay lip service to patreon.
Saying they're 18 doesn't matter to Patreon, it's their appearance that matters. Runey, developer of Harem Hotel, had to change a girl who is blatantly in college because she had a sailor style uniform, which is typically associated with Japanese middle schools.
Unfortunately, the people who do care are the payment processors and Patreon has to listen to them or they will go the way NOPY did. The processors do business in countries where fake incest and loli is illegal, so to maintain that business, they have to crack down in all countries they operate in.
If any of his Patreon patrons are like me, or worse, they'll drop support regardless just because they see he got hit and automatically see it as an inevitable abandonment or complete overhaul they won't like. Most developers don't even try to maintain the original vision once Patreon hits them, so I'm not surprised by that outlook. I'm choosing to give Selebus a chance to recover and whether I remain is entirely dependent on whether he maintains to original version of the game to completion.
Gods: It's not like I like your game or anything...baka. (Had to do it)
Most of the characters can pass as underage looking, so I don't think this is as simple as you might think. He may have to redesign them entirely like Runey, developer of Harem Hotel, had to change one girl's clothing. Mainly in the breast and uniform departments to make them, you know, not high schoolers.
Now that is freaking hilarious, peak Selebus. Why do I get the feeling Selebus is particularly displeased by this and is doing this "stock image" censorship as a way to get back at them?
I am thankful I chose not to support through Patreon now. I just hope Patreon won't crack down on the fact that he will now have two different versions on two different sites, like they usually do, because that would be going against my policy of supporting people only if they don't bend the knee to censorship if he ends up submitting at that point.
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Welcome to our side of the supporters.
A panic reaction, most developers who get hit by this go one of two paths. They either change the project to conform with Patreon's demands or they drop the game entirely. Even in me, this has led to a sort of reflex where we start to think the same is going to happen any time it comes up. I mean, look at it logically. When Patreon first started their crackdown on this kind of content, a whole bunch of developers got hit and many of them either changed their game or stopped developing because they could no longer monetize it, granted this was before SubscribeStar. In fact, that purge was the whole reason I chose SubscribeStar when I started supporting you and I believe is the reason SubscribeStar even exists today.
Who wouldn't be concerned that another developer getting hit is going to go down that same path. I have faith, especially after hearing about the 'stock image' idea, that was freaking hilarious, but I am also wary of Patreon's shady control tactics like threatening termination if a developer even maintains a separate version off of Patreon, and yes, they have followed through on some of those.
I'm not going anywhere just yet, it all depends on the end result of this mess. Especially with my tier being one of the legacy ones, a tier which has benefits I will lose without reason if I act too hastily.
- Nov 3, 2019
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Patreon seems like they're fine if the censored version of the game is renamed differently. PinkTea's shit patreon version is called Realms of Bondage, the uncensored subscribestar version's called Slaves of Passion. Another studio also got patreon's approval to name their game Rampager, and then release an uncensored version on subscribestar called Ravager.
So who knows. Maybe selebus can rename the patreon version Lessons in Dove (turning the April fools joke intro reality) and just continue to publish the uncensored version as Lessons in Love