Man, I've been a supporter of Sel since like version 8.0, but some of his answers in the discord make it sound like the game is moving in a direction I won't enjoy and I'll end up just waiting for other people to make guides/walkthroughs.
"I want progression to feel tedious and hopeless at times because I want people to push through and try harder, and I believe that the satisfaction that comes with things once they finally start moving again is an excellent reward for both persistence and meticulousness."
Shit like that doesn't sound enjoyable to me. I'm not one of the people that's here for a quick tug since LiL isn't that kind of game and has never really been. But I don't want my VNs to actually be frustrating and annoying and I sure as fuck don't want to have to take notes like it's a damn school lecture.
"I want progression to feel tedious and hopeless at times because I want people to push through and try harder, and I believe that the satisfaction that comes with things once they finally start moving again is an excellent reward for both persistence and meticulousness."
Shit like that doesn't sound enjoyable to me. I'm not one of the people that's here for a quick tug since LiL isn't that kind of game and has never really been. But I don't want my VNs to actually be frustrating and annoying and I sure as fuck don't want to have to take notes like it's a damn school lecture.
If you haven't seen NSFW scenes, you haven't finished chapter 1, pretty sure there are unavoidable ones in chapter 1 at least in the sense that you can't avoid running into the choice that leads to them, the choice being pretty obvious about what is going to happen if you say yes to it.
Been a supporter about the same amount of time, I do believe it was 0.8.0 that won my wallet.
I think you might want to look for a kinetic novel, those are the ones where you don't need to know anything beyond what is going on in the moment.
In ANY visual novel with choices and multiple routes, the wrong choice can lead you somewhere you don't want to go, usually to a route you aren't going for yet, if at all, or worse, to a bad end with a game over where you have to start over from your nearest save. LiL just happens to be stricter with its handling of what it takes to stay on a specific route.
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- Mar 11, 2019
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The last update has an ending if you keep masturbating during the last puzzle. Pretty funny if you ask me. I count it as an ending since the game closes and you must reload your save (if any) to keep playing.
That would be a bad end in the game ending sense, yes, and I completely forgot about it. Edited my previous comment to take that out.
I don't mind choices having consequences or different routes, that's fine. I'm talking about the brick wall 'puzzles' that require you to parse every line of dialogue, take notes, and deconstruct all the background images to make sure you didn't miss that hidden 7 digit number that will be important nine events later.
You want to make a puzzle, fine. Don't make me study for an exam to finish an update though.
The puzzles are seemingly part of the challenges posed in canon to try and stop Sensei from reaching the roof, and since we are basically Sensei, that means the challenge is posed to us as well instead of just going by in story events that Sensei passes or fails while we watch.
The more desperate the gods get to stop him, the harder the puzzles get. There is also potential that any of the girls who know what is going on participate in this puzzle as well, which could explain the current situation with Maya, she might have been subject to a puzzle and failed.
The game is alright, most of the characters are pretty enjoyable, music is solid. A pretty good experience until you eventually just run into the lack of progression as you desperately try to fire off the next event in sequence that has to be done on a specific day in a specific location.
This shit has just become even more obnoxious and it was this that led to me dropping the game a few years back and what led to me dropping it again a bit ago.
Maybe one day this game won't be like pulling teeth and doesn't require you to have a walkthrough out and primed to trigger off events in proper sequence so the game just stops. I just don't have the investment in the game to power through it past a certain point.
This shit has just become even more obnoxious and it was this that led to me dropping the game a few years back and what led to me dropping it again a bit ago.
Maybe one day this game won't be like pulling teeth and doesn't require you to have a walkthrough out and primed to trigger off events in proper sequence so the game just stops. I just don't have the investment in the game to power through it past a certain point.
This developer isn't known for changing the mechanics of how his game runs, in fact he has been known to say no to changing how his game works in any way, so I doubt there will be any point at which it will be what you are looking for.
There is no requirement for a walkthrough, just paying attention and writing things down that seem either important, completely random and useless, or both is enough. This developer has been known to use seemingly useless and random information, as in things that seem placed there for no apparent reason like giving us Sensei's password, as puzzle answers. That is a prime example of something that seems random and unimportant, but is not and should be written down when encountered.
I'm quite aware it's why I only come back to this every two or so years just to drop it again.
It's an obnoxious game design.
- Mar 29, 2020
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No, it won't. This is integral part of game design and Selebus isn't a AAA studio, he clearly doesn't give a shit and just goes with his vision. If u aren't interested enough in story/characters to power through rough patches, don't torture yourself and pick up something more user friendly.
Yeah some people here get triggered by any criticism over the game dw about it. I can safely say we've all cheated in games before or at least modded them. So there's no guilt from just doing the same here. If Selebus wants us to waste hours of our time repeating the same events over and over again - well what he wants doesn't matter
And it is an obnoxious game design, but there's people who make it easier. All of the answers are posted here, and there is a guide mod too
Yeah, like I said one day I might force myself to play it by looking at a guide the entire time but not today. I got better options that don't require that much effort, at the end of the day its a porn game, not a college exam.
I mean, we are just getting access to something he is making for himself. Unlike other developers, who are indeed developing for the other people who play, Selebus is mainly doing the project he wants to make. This is a big part of why we patrons have no say in actual game development, we get say in what he makes for our patron perks to a degree (certain levels get custom image requests, currently $50 for one and $100 for three), but those do not go into the game. When it comes to the game, even we are just along for the ride.
What Selebus wants is all that matters, unlike other games that are specifically being made with other people in mind.
I can think of many both AAA and minor dev projects that have had this mentality.
Their end result usually wasn't great. Sure dilution of vision is something that all content creators dread but conversely not having a sounding board at all tends to result in a mess of similar scale just of differing result.
- Mar 29, 2020
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Yeah, I remember, although the way u put sounds a bit weird.
Tends to is not a guarantee for every case, as we see here. He already had one of the best games on this site, largely due to the the overabundance of sex centered games on here, but also due to how good his writing is even compared to the other few writing centered games on here, and now he is going back to make the game fully into one that meets his current level of skill (which is pointless when there are still a few years of development left, really, since he's just going to improve and have to rework content again later to bring it up to the future standard as he is doing now).
As far as what constitutes a mess in regards to listening to others, so does listening too much. I have seen games on here entirely ruined by allowing patrons or, rarely, even free players to take any sort of creative control and it has never succeeded in any game I have witnessed. Usually the patrons drive the game into the ground and continue digging long after blasting through the center of the Earth just to see how much of their own personal tastes they can cram into the game or, less commonly, how many other tastes they don't like they can remove from the game.
The vision of the developer should always come first above all else in development (for all development models, including patron focused), if that means 'happy' scenes, let there be as many 'happy' scenes as Selebus wants. If it means puzzles, let there be as many and as difficult puzzles as Selebus wants.
How so? Most Patreon developers (actual platform doesn't matter, this refers to developers who work off of sites like Patreon or SubscribeStar) do develop for other people, their patrons in other words, as either a secondary or, less commonly, a primary job.
There are not that many who are truly developing for themselves alone and are basically only giving other people access to the game they create, Selebus being one of those. We are just getting access to LiL, but it is still Selebus's game alone.
- Mar 29, 2020
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I just didn't know if it was weird in a way that needed changed for clarification or unintended tone is all, I don't want to give the wrong impression in my comments. If it is nothing to worry about, I won't.