Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.46.0] [Selebus]

[GSwole]

It wasn't a valid suggestion. For a rare moment, Sel was right.

Also, you are taking out of context screenshots too seriously

I'm always right. Even when I'm wrong. Which is never but you get the point. If those bugs dare talk back to me I have to remind them who makes the money for a poorly disguised self-insert harem fantasy with religious undertones about a guy that gets to fuck everything with a hole yet still feel bad about it.

 

[Riolol]

I agree; I don't think Ami trying to be "more Sekai" was from Sekai's ghostly persuation specifically because of the example you brough up. Besides, I think it's still too soon to use the fact "Ami talking to someone invisible when alone" to determine whether she can converse with Sekai.

One scene that cements this idea is from You & Me Against the World. As the crazy daughter that views her mom like a legendary figure, it's unfathomable to imagine this "Shut up!" was directed to Sekai, even if she is no longer amongst the living. If this instead was just delusional talk, then "Ami talking to someone only she can see" becomes a lot less likely to lead somewhere.
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I wouldn't call it unfathomable, she was hysterical in that moment. Sekai could have been trying to calm her down for all we know. I don't know who else it would be.

 

[Apollo259]

I get that some people here dislike the guy for various reasons, myself included at least in some capacity. But surely its not worth faux outrage over a screenshot of how he responded to some goober in a discord that's having a "No memes in general"-esque conversation.

 

[Moonflare]

I get that some people here dislike the guy for various reasons, myself included at least in some capacity. But surely its not worth faux outrage over a screenshot of how he responded to some goober in a discord that's having a "No memes in general"-esque conversation.

Less of an isolated incident and more of a flagbearer for overall repeated complaints from many other subscribers that were either disrespected themselves or felt they were in a hostile environment by his actions towards the people that pay him.

 

[aramaug]

What Riolol said, but there also seems to be different attics. The light from the attic, and the creaking of the seventh step leading to it (or in it, as where the log is hidden) is recurring. Most importantly, Nodoka states that Kyoko (her mother) had the key to the attic (presumably the attic from the upside down house - which ironically would be down, not up).

The attic at Ami's house holds Sekai stuff, if not other things. Ami uses her dress, and gets her poems from there at some point. It's possible that actual pieces of Sekai are there too, as Akira mentions having kept some fragments of glass with viscera (presumably) from the accident.

Edit: also, as LiL is about dimensions stacked on top of one another, ascending to the attic could very likely mean ascending in a supernatural manner. The replica of heaven is situated at a school that's beneath the surface, thus it's down, possibly at the underheaven or close to it. Most importantly, it's down, you have to descend/drown to get to it.

You'd have to ascend (opposite direction) to get to the attic, to the door at Tojo's house, and to the door at the forest that Wires asks Akira and Nao to get into (that leads to the office). Although the office still seems to be a school, so that's unclear.

A couple small points:

• The original reference to the seventh step is on the stairs in Sakaki-bar-a from the bar to the apartment. It definitely has some deeper meaning than a creaky staircase, but I can't remember it being directly tied to an attic.
• Yuko (lavender hair girl) is the one with the key to the attic, not Kyoko. I think this was pretty much confirmed in the recent ARG tweets where Yuko was the one receiving supplies from the outside world (Nodoka says the girl with the key to the attic is also the one who gets the groceries).

As far as the attic in the upside down house, I think it's home to a gate which is the only connection with the outside world. Hence why Yuko, the one who has the key to the attic, is the one who collects supplies and might have the ability to "stick her hands through doors". In "Side Event" there's a line about how there's "something in the attic" of the upside down house, and somewhere else someone says something along the lines of "sometimes I think there's another universe inside of this house" (I couldn't find this reference, if someone is able to remind me where it happens, I'd appreciate it).

For another attic reference, in "Blood & Sunset" Sensei implies that he hid a journal of his old poems in the attic because they remind him of Sekai (assuming I'm interpreting this right). I don't think there's any indication that Ami found it, but it would be interesting if she did.

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Huh, excuse me for borrowing the dunce cap for a few mins Bingoogus but have we talked about the possibility that Sekai just straight up told Ami to start wearing her dress? Sekai probably is telling Ami exactly what to write in her poetry as well.

I wish I could remember if this has been discussed before but there's almost 44,000 posts and I feel like more than half of those have come in the last year or so

For those interested in when the Attic and Sekai (plus dress) was mentioned, it's Chapter 2's Ami 'Outcry of the Hunted Hare' Event. It's also when Ami had a nightmare involving Sekai:

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I'd also think Ami talking about cleaning the Attic in her Chapter 1 'Harem Tutorial' Event (the first Ami Event), then later having Sekai's shadow show up behind her in her Chapter 1 'Cute Girls and Stuff' Event:

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Are related. (This Event also leads to her becoming a Maid which is a Divergence to the normal timeline according to Maya Prime in Chapter 1 Ami's 'Divergence' Event)

In theory: Ami cleans Attic. Finds Sekai things/unleashes something. Starts having bad dreams and something like Sekai following her. Ends up having trouble sleeping as mentioned in Chapter 2's 'The First Signs of Fraying Threads' Main Event:

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Which might be why she had a fever in the Chapter 1 'Little Girl' Main Event, and ever since, she's been getting worse and worse while the voices mentioned in her Chapter 2 'Living' Event:

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Got worse and worse, along with the dreams, etc, and eventually...well, she loses her shit (after apparently getting murdered), breaks, and seems to just be doing what the voices tell her now:

Adding to what DeSkel said:

Early in Chapter 2 ("Sonnet 18") Ami is pretty clueless about poetry. Later in the chapter she finds Sekai's poems and apparently turns into a prodigy overnight.

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In "My Life With You", Ami has a blackout just as she starts to read one of Sekai's poems.

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Whether or not she's directly hearing Sekai's voice at this point, it definitely seems like Sekai's poems have had a subconscious supernatural effect on her.

I wouldn't call it unfathomable, she was hysterical in that moment. Sekai could have been trying to calm her down for all we know. I don't know who else it would be.

I'm still half convinced it's Maya (Prime). The voice interrupts her as soon as she starts badmouthing Maya.

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But I also think she talks to Sekai in other events, so I could easily be wrong.

 

[{Jeizaguretokanteishi01}]

A new version of the DRM removal patch (replace your gui.rpy in the LiL/game folder with this one) for the new version of Renpy, and a new 0.42 script file if yours got deleted by loading the game with ill-sourced Care Packages. All of the ones hosted here should be free of the code that will trigger it, but you never know...

is there any thing i would need this for other than the care packages

 

[Antosha]

is there any thing i would need this for other than the care packages

Nope. The DRM is just there to keep the care packages from being loaded by non-subscribers.

 

[Bingoogus]

Huh, excuse me for borrowing the dunce cap for a few mins Bingoogus but have we talked about the possibility that Sekai just straight up told Ami to start wearing her dress? Sekai probably is telling Ami exactly what to write in her poetry as well.

I wish I could remember if this has been discussed before but there's almost 44,000 posts and I feel like more than half of those have come in the last year or so

I got this fat stack of hats right there *points* but no, you had to come take the one off of my head? Friendship ended with Crusty, now Salman is my bestfriend...

 

[shmurfer]

Pretty much all of this game was written on the run lmao. He has key points, but he improvises how he gets to those. It's a normal way of writing and I think most writers do it this way, is just a fun way to do it.

DBZ's manga was famously improvised. For Cell Saga or for Buu Saga.

 

[flameod2]

I dont really comment on well, anything. But one thing that irks me and i feel would make more sense even in this nonsensical game would be a change to the affection system.
It doesnt make sense that you need to have 30 affection with someone and they still hate your guts for the events that need it.
I get that you want a grind but if you care so much about the story making sense maybe dont include the story in that grind at the expense of it making sense as well.

The most direct example is how it only takes like 15 affection for ayane and ami to pretty much open up everything but their darkest secrets.

But even with 30 needed for an event yumi still would throw up if we touch her.

It doesnt make sense that you NEED high affection for events that truly barely move the needle. Affection should in my mind represent how close you need to be with the girl to access an event with the amount of affection representing around the same amount of closeness for all the girls.

Essentially I dont think it makes sense to need high affection to do things that are hardly any different. Yumi being the main example. Im not convinced even in chapter 2 that we should be above a 10. And there shouldnt be an affection requirement for just constantly helping her find jobs. Especially when you gate all the events behind other events anyway making it almost impossible to miss any due to high affection outside of maybe a couple obvious bad choices.

Its fine to just have lower affection reqs for characters we arent that close with in the narrative yet. It would make more sense to raise those as we actually get closer to them. Like to invtie them over. Or progress the romance. Or to learn secrets about them.
Not to talk about job hunts over and over.

Just my own personal nit pick. Everything else i take in stride and hope will be fixed when its finished.

 

[Moonflare]

I dont really comment on well, anything. But one thing that irks me and i feel would make more sense even in this nonsensical game would be a change to the affection system.
It doesnt make sense that you need to have 30 affection with someone and they still hate your guts for the events that need it.
I get that you want a grind but if you care so much about the story making sense maybe dont include the story in that grind at the expense of it making sense as well.

The most direct example is how it only takes like 15 affection for ayane and ami to pretty much open up everything but their darkest secrets.

But even with 30 needed for an event yumi still would throw up if we touch her.

It doesnt make sense that you NEED high affection for events that truly barely move the needle. Affection should in my mind represent how close you need to be with the girl to access an event with the amount of affection representing around the same amount of closeness for all the girls.

Essentially I dont think it makes sense to need high affection to do things that are hardly any different. Yumi being the main example. Im not convinced even in chapter 2 that we should be above a 10. And there shouldnt be an affection requirement for just constantly helping her find jobs. Especially when you gate all the events behind other events anyway making it almost impossible to miss any due to high affection outside of maybe a couple obvious bad choices.

Its fine to just have lower affection reqs for characters we arent that close with in the narrative yet. It would make more sense to raise those as we actually get closer to them. Like to invtie them over. Or progress the romance. Or to learn secrets about them.
Not to talk about job hunts over and over.

Just my own personal nit pick. Everything else i take in stride and hope will be fixed when its finished.

Yes. Selebus is a good writer and an awful game designer.

 

[shmurfer]

He's even mentioned how affection isn't really affection and just a measure of how much you've interacted in the game. How he's intentionally left the lust flag on someone he doesn't intend to get any sex any time soon, and just randomly deleted all your affection grinding on at least one person (two if you then decide to check a specific phone message)

 

[DeanNoriko]

Yes. Selebus is a good writer and an awful game designer.

This sums it up well.

The game shines through its story.
The gameplay elements are barebones, at best. It's really just means to forward the story.

As creative and sometimes innovative Sel is with writing an engaging and complex story, his idea of interesting gameplay is dog shit, almost to the point where it feels like it could be intentional.
I think some of the bad reviews on this site hint at it as well and I am not surprised if he misses out on a lot of subscribers by making this game unnecessarily grindy and obscure (gameplay wise, see the reset puzzles).
That being said, Sel is Sel and he would rather die on that hill than use any of his brain capacity to make the gameplay experience any more fun, engaging, realistic or different in any way.

Personally, I learned to live with it, I don't see "affection" as affection at all, I simply read the numbers as check marks or flags for events, which they essentially are. I play this game to learn what's going on, not to marvel in it's ground-breaking gameplay. And Sel is probably aware of this being the approach for most of his subscribers, so he has no intention to change anything.
Still, I hate his stupid boner for those puzzle events. At least make them like the kids TV quiz show one, that was the only one I was able to solve without help (except for the puppies part) and that was somewhat engaging and rewarding.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

Yes. Selebus is a good writer and an awful game designer.

And an awful person

 

[derekthered56]

I think affection isn't supposed to represent how other characters think about Akira but how Akira thinks about everyone else. He makes a stupid gamified system of tracking his relationships so he doesn't have to confront what he's really doing to real people. And of course the various gods roast him for it by randomly adding or subtracting millions of points.

And of course Sel keeps this system well after the point is made and wastes everyone's time with it, because he's kind of a dick.

 

[Moonflare]

I think affection isn't supposed to represent how other characters think about Akira but how Akira thinks about everyone else. He makes a stupid gamified system of tracking his relationships so he doesn't have to confront what he's really doing to real people. And of course the various gods roast him for it by randomly adding or subtracting millions of points.

And of course Sel keeps this system well after the point is made and wastes everyone's time with it, because he's kind of a dick.

The game contradicts this theory a few times, in the sense that the girls affection actually should represent their affection towards Akira, the most emblematic example is Chika getting 1000 affection points, at a moment Akira definitely didn't come to like her more because of rabies.

At the same time, New Maya's affection drops to zero and she's in no way zero towards him, she loves him and would go after him for forever. So yeah, yet another, excuse my wording, dogshit attempt by Selebus to gamify things that either don't add anything, or subtract from it.

At least the affection thing is easily ignored so it never really bothered me much.

 

[derekthered56]

The game contradicts this theory a few times, in the sense that the girls affection actually should represent their affection towards Akira, the most emblematic example is Chika getting 1000 affection points, at a moment Akira definitely didn't come to like her more because of rabies.

At the same time, New Maya's affection drops to zero and she's in no way zero towards him, she loves him and would go after him for forever. So yeah, yet another, excuse my wording, dogshit attempt by Selebus to gamify things that either don't add anything, or subtract from it.

At least the affection thing is easily ignored so it never really bothered me much.

I mean that the system is how Akira believes other characters see him. So when he believes Chika has rabies, he marks that idea down has Chika having 1000 extra points. And for New Maya, the 0 points are him avoiding thinking about her opinion at all.

I think the idea had some merit in chapter 1, but should have been discarded or changed massively as the game went on.

 

[barglenarglezous]

On the subject of Affection, are any of y'all the kind of nerds to keep a spreadsheet of the maximum NEEDED affection values for the girls? I have a curiosity about this that may play into a theory, but am feeling too lazy to consult the wiki to extract that data myself, especially if someone else has done the labor.

In particular, are their any characters that have required affection levels uncharacteristically higher than the other girls.?

 

[Riolol]

The thing I found odd about affection points was Niki and Noriko both starting out with 50 points each because they had history with Akira but not anybody else like Ami or Ayane.

 

[shmurfer]

On the subject of Affection, are any of y'all the kind of nerds to keep a spreadsheet of the maximum NEEDED affection values for the girls? I have a curiosity about this that may play into a theory, but am feeling too lazy to consult the wiki to extract that data myself, especially if someone else has done the labor.

In particular, are their any characters that have required affection levels uncharacteristically higher than the other girls.?

Well you have Ayane as the outlier at several thousand.